Research reveals slow left lane drivers are spiking accident rates

[kalvado]

That and the issues with keeping radar guns perfectly calibrated are why cops typically don't pull people over if doing less than 7-8 above. Too easy to fight it.

If I understand things correctly, radar/lidar gun calibrations are the strongest link here. 1 MPH certification probably based on number of digits on display, not on actual accuracy which is probably way better.

[cl94]

That and the issues with keeping radar guns perfectly calibrated are why cops typically don't pull people over if doing less than 7-8 above. Too easy to fight it.

If I understand things correctly, radar/lidar gun calibrations are the strongest link here. 1 MPH certification probably based on number of digits on display, not on actual accuracy which is probably way better.

Except those things aren't the most accurate. They need to be calibrated daily and serviced by a licensed technician at least once a year. You can get a ticket thrown out by subpoenaing the calibration records if they are unable to prove it is calibrated often.

[jeffandnicole]

I found this (https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/393.82), applicable to buses and trucks:
"Each bus, truck, and truck-tractor must be equipped with a speedometer indicating vehicle speed in miles per hour and/or kilometers per hour. The speedometer must be accurate to within plus or minus 8 km/hr (5 mph) at a speed of 80 km/hr (50 mph)."

Now if a speedometer is allowed by law to be off by 10% in either direction, then it follows that you cannot be held accountable for doing 55 in a 50 MPH zone or 71 in a 65 zone. And it hardly makes sense to have truck and bus regulations more lenient than car regulations

They are two totally distinct items.  The rule is regarding a working speedometer in a commercial vehicle.  It has absolutely nothing to do with leeway police have to give in regards to speeding.

To further this point: Let's say my speedometer says I'm going 55 mph when I'm really doing 60 mph, and I get pulled over in a 50 mph zone.  Does the officer charge me going 10 mph over the limit or 5 mph over the limit?  And if you were to say "You can't pull me over, I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit".  Are you going to spend the time and money to have your speedometer tested, or are you going to argue with the cop that it's his radar gun that's wrong?  And where do you go to have solid proof that your speedometer was wrong?  And then, at that point, does it matter?

If that all sounds confusing, there's a reason why.  Because the regulation you cited has nothing to do with speeding and leeway.

[bzakharin]

To further this point: Let's say my speedometer says I'm going 55 mph when I'm really doing 60 mph, and I get pulled over in a 50 mph zone.  Does the officer charge me going 10 mph over the limit or 5 mph over the limit?  And if you were to say "You can't pull me over, I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit".  Are you going to spend the time and money to have your speedometer tested, or are you going to argue with the cop that it's his radar gun that's wrong?  And where do you go to have solid proof that your speedometer was wrong?  And then, at that point, does it matter?

No, but if I was *really* going 55 I can argue that my speedometer was showing 50.

If that all sounds confusing, there's a reason why.  Because the regulation you cited has nothing to do with speeding and leeway.

Usually, the only practical way to know how fast you are going is by having an accurate speedometer. The regulation I cited is not directly applicable to speeding leeway, but it is an acknowledgement of what can reasonably be considered an accurate speedometer. What other way can I be sure to keep the speed limit? By always driving 5 MPH less?

[kalvado]

That and the issues with keeping radar guns perfectly calibrated are why cops typically don't pull people over if doing less than 7-8 above. Too easy to fight it.

If I understand things correctly, radar/lidar gun calibrations are the strongest link here. 1 MPH certification probably based on number of digits on display, not on actual accuracy which is probably way better.

Except those things aren't the most accurate. They need to be calibrated daily and serviced by a licensed technician at least once a year. You can get a ticket thrown out by subpoenaing the calibration records if they are unable to prove it is calibrated often.

That is the way equipment industry makes money. Same as with inkjet printers, for example, where printers themselves are sold at a loss, and ink is the true source of money. Calibration sticker is a lot of money for not that much work. And since that is required for legal reasons....

Usually, the only practical way to know how fast you are going is by having an accurate speedometer. The regulation I cited is not directly applicable to speeding leeway, but it is an acknowledgement of what can reasonably be considered an accurate speedometer. What other way can I be sure to keep the speed limit? By always driving 5 MPH less?

Speedometer calibration should be available... Bigger problem is that tires affect calibration quite a bit, so new tires may require recalibration. Just wear from new to minimum can be about 1 MPH at highway speed, as well as air pressure.
  There are some measured miles on highway to check your speedometer. I actually use those "you drive (measurement) MPH - SLOW DOWN!" stations to check my readings. Last, but not the least, GPS seem a fairly accurate way of checking speed.
So there are a few options...

[RobbieL2415]

That and the issues with keeping radar guns perfectly calibrated are why cops typically don't pull people over if doing less than 7-8 above. Too easy to fight it.

If I understand things correctly, radar/lidar gun calibrations are the strongest link here. 1 MPH certification probably based on number of digits on display, not on actual accuracy which is probably way better.

Except those things aren't the most accurate. They need to be calibrated daily and serviced by a licensed technician at least once a year. You can get a ticket thrown out by subpoenaing the calibration records if they are unable to prove it is calibrated often.

That is the way equipment industry makes money. Same as with inkjet printers, for example, where printers themselves are sold at a loss, and ink is the true source of money. Calibration sticker is a lot of money for not that much work. And since that is required for legal reasons....

Usually, the only practical way to know how fast you are going is by having an accurate speedometer. The regulation I cited is not directly applicable to speeding leeway, but it is an acknowledgement of what can reasonably be considered an accurate speedometer. What other way can I be sure to keep the speed limit? By always driving 5 MPH less?

Speedometer calibration should be available... Bigger problem is that tires affect calibration quite a bit, so new tires may require recalibration. Just wear from new to minimum can be about 1 MPH at highway speed, as well as air pressure.
  There are some measured miles on highway to check your speedometer. I actually use those "you drive (measurement) MPH - SLOW DOWN!" stations to check my readings. Last, but not the least, GPS seem a fairly accurate way of checking speed.
So there are a few options...

Speaking of this, when a calibration is performed, are the calibrating the actual vehicle speed sensor or just the gauge on the instrument panel?  On OBDII vehicles the speed can be directly read from the ECU with a scan tool.

[roadfro]

Just found an interesting summary of state laws, looks like there are several approaches:

5. SD, NV: SLOW (not slower!) vehicles need to keep right.  NV has strange wording, somewhat closer to "yield" - 2 total

Not sure what's so confusing about Nevada's wording... Reference Nevada Revised Statutes chapter 484B.627 below.

Also of note is NRS 484B.630, which requires slow vehicles turnout when impeding 5 or more vehicles. Interestingly, any vehicle not traveling the speed limit is expected to turn out.

Also interesting that violating the turnout statute is a misdemeanor offense, but a violation of the general move over law is not.

NRS 484B.627  Duties of driver driving motor vehicle at speed so slow as to impede forward movement of traffic; prohibition against stopping vehicle on roadway so as to impede or block normal and reasonable movement of traffic; exception.
      1.  If any driver drives a motor vehicle at a speed so slow as to impede the forward movement of traffic proceeding immediately behind the driver, the driver shall:
      (a) If the highway has one lane for traveling in each direction and the width of the paved portion permits, drive to the extreme right side of the highway and, if applicable, comply with the provisions of NRS 484B.630;
      (b) If the highway has two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic traveling in the direction in which the driver is traveling, drive in the extreme right-hand lane except when necessary to pass other slowly moving vehicles; or
      (c) If the highway is a controlled-access highway, use alternate routes whenever possible.
      2.  A person shall not bring a vehicle to a complete stop upon a roadway so as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the stop is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

NRS 484B.630  Circumstances in which driver of slow-moving vehicle has duty to turn off roadway; penalty.
      1.  On a highway that has one lane for traveling in each direction, where passing is unsafe because of traffic traveling in the opposite direction or other conditions, the driver of a slow-moving vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in a line, shall, to allow the vehicles following behind to proceed, turn off the roadway:
      (a) At the nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the public authority having jurisdiction over the highway; or
      (b) In the absence of such a designated turnout, at the nearest place where:
             (1) Sufficient area for a safe turnout exists; and
             (2) The circumstances and conditions are such that the driver is able to turn off the roadway in a safe manner.
      2.  A person who violates subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor.
      3.  As used in this section, "slow-moving vehicle"  means a vehicle that is traveling at a rate of speed which is less than the posted speed limit for the highway or portion of the highway upon which the vehicle is traveling.

[kalvado]

Not sure what's so confusing about Nevada's wording... Reference Nevada Revised Statutes chapter 484B.627 below.

Also of note is NRS 484B.630, which requires slow vehicles turnout when impeding 5 or more vehicles. Interestingly, any vehicle not traveling the speed limit is expected to turn out.

Also interesting that violating the turnout statute is a misdemeanor offense, but a violation of the general move over law is not.

I assume turnout provision is aimed at farm/construction equipment mostly. This is very different from right lane camping. And those farm machines can be really slow - way below 30...
Our discussion is more toward traffic on divided highway - interstate grade road I would say. I wonder what NV consider "slow" in those cases. "slower" may be interpreted as "below average", but just "slow"? Grain harvester doing 20 in 70 MPH zone, or someone going speed limit is included as well? Most complains here, I assume, are toward those driving below speed limit +10...

[Roadrunner75]

I thought of this thread when I watched someone deal with a left lane camper a few days ago on the evening commute.  The camper (out of state driver, as usual), two cars ahead of me, was holding up a line of cars in the left lane on the Garden State Parkway.  The car in front of me found a small gap in the center lane and quickly zoomed around and pulled in front of the camper.  He then proceeded to gradually slow down to just below the camper's speed (not a brake check).  After a short while, the camper pulled into a gap in the center lane to pass.  The second he started to hit the gas to go around, the car in front gunned it and took off.  The rest of us followed suit, and the entire line of cars was able to pass the camper and block him from getting back into the left lane.  Our problem was solved and we were able to go about our business of getting home.  Teamwork.

[roadfro]

Not sure what's so confusing about Nevada's wording... Reference Nevada Revised Statutes chapter 484B.627 below.

Also of note is NRS 484B.630, which requires slow vehicles turnout when impeding 5 or more vehicles. Interestingly, any vehicle not traveling the speed limit is expected to turn out.

Also interesting that violating the turnout statute is a misdemeanor offense, but a violation of the general move over law is not.

I assume turnout provision is aimed at farm/construction equipment mostly. This is very different from right lane camping. And those farm machines can be really slow - way below 30...
Our discussion is more toward traffic on divided highway - interstate grade road I would say. I wonder what NV consider "slow" in those cases. "slower" may be interpreted as "below average", but just "slow"? Grain harvester doing 20 in 70 MPH zone, or someone going speed limit is included as well? Most complains here, I assume, are toward those driving below speed limit +10...

Nevada considers any slow vehicle in part of this turnout provision. It's not necessarily aimed at farm/ranching equipment (not much get on highways anyway). It's more aimed at slow moving trucks, RVs, towing vehicles, etc.

With the normal slow vehicle move over provision, I think it's, unfortunately, up to interpretation. I personally call it something like 10 mph slower than the surrounding traffic or 5 mph slower than the speed limit, but that is just my thinking in my own ideal world.

[Gnutella]

I thought of this thread when I watched someone deal with a left lane camper a few days ago on the evening commute.  The camper (out of state driver, as usual), two cars ahead of me, was holding up a line of cars in the left lane on the Garden State Parkway.  The car in front of me found a small gap in the center lane and quickly zoomed around and pulled in front of the camper.  He then proceeded to gradually slow down to just below the camper's speed (not a brake check).  After a short while, the camper pulled into a gap in the center lane to pass.  The second he started to hit the gas to go around, the car in front gunned it and took off.  The rest of us followed suit, and the entire line of cars was able to pass the camper and block him from getting back into the left lane.  Our problem was solved and we were able to go about our business of getting home.  Teamwork.

This is exactly why I want a V-8 engine in my next vehicle: I've actually thought about doing exactly as you described before. I'd be the hero of the highway.

[SidS1045]

if you were to say "You can't pull me over, I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit".  Are you going to spend the time and money to have your speedometer tested, or are you going to argue with the cop that it's his radar gun that's wrong?  And where do you go to have solid proof that your speedometer was wrong?  And then, at that point, does it matter?

It doesn't matter, but not for the reason you think.

"I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit" is an admission of guilt.  Bet your bottom dollar the cop will return to his car, write down everything you said, and issue the citation.  Any discussion of speedometer error is irrelevant.  Take it to court and you're doubly screwed, as the cop's contemporaneous notes on your statement will show that you knew what the speed limit was and admitted exceeding it.

Never run your mouth with a cop present.  Think before you speak.

[jeffandnicole]

if you were to say "You can't pull me over, I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit".  Are you going to spend the time and money to have your speedometer tested, or are you going to argue with the cop that it's his radar gun that's wrong?  And where do you go to have solid proof that your speedometer was wrong?  And then, at that point, does it matter?

It doesn't matter, but not for the reason you think.

"I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit" is an admission of guilt.  Bet your bottom dollar the cop will return to his car, write down everything you said, and issue the citation.  Any discussion of speedometer error is irrelevant.  Take it to court and you're doubly screwed, as the cop's contemporaneous notes on your statement will show that you knew what the speed limit was and admitted exceeding it.

Never run your mouth with a cop present.  Think before you speak.

While that is true sometimes, it's not everytime.  Case in point:  Me.

I have literally told a cop I was speeding.  I clearly indicted myself.  But you know what?  I pulled over, well off the road.  I kept my hands in clear view.  I waited until the officer asked for identification.  I didn't give the officer a hard time.  I didn't argue. 

And I left, almost always without a ticket, and often times with a verbal warning to slow it down a bit.   The few times I have received a ticket, I've gone to court and asked to have the ticket downgraded.  Every time, it's happened.  In the most memorable time, I was stopped for tailgating a cop in PA (I live in NJ).  Because of court postponements, I didn't have my day in court until 4 months after the ticket was issued.  The cop, then since promoted, clearly didn't remember me.  I told him what I would like to downgrade the ticket to (which was a fine with no points).  The officer talked with the judge and was ok with my recommendation (hell, we even joked at one point).  He charged me with a charge that ironically couldn't apply to me in my home state (failure to sign registration card).  But in the end, we were all pleased with the outcome. 

There are bigger fish to fry - the person after me in court, a cute, younger 20-something, was in there for a DUI and other violations. 

Most people read horror stories on the internet, take them for truth, and pass them along.  Or don't tell the entire story.  We are always reading that cops stop people when they were doing nothing wrong.  I drive every day, and it's a rare car that I'm not seeing doing anything wrong.   I doubt a cop is going to ignore the thousands of vehicles speeding, tailgating, and driving like a lunatic to get someone doing 'nothing'.

I'm living proof that I can sit there, be blatantly honest, and continue on my way.

[bzakharin]

if you were to say "You can't pull me over, I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit".  Are you going to spend the time and money to have your speedometer tested, or are you going to argue with the cop that it's his radar gun that's wrong?  And where do you go to have solid proof that your speedometer was wrong?  And then, at that point, does it matter?

It doesn't matter, but not for the reason you think.

"I was only going 55 mph, and that's just 5 mph over the limit" is an admission of guilt.  Bet your bottom dollar the cop will return to his car, write down everything you said, and issue the citation.  Any discussion of speedometer error is irrelevant.  Take it to court and you're doubly screwed, as the cop's contemporaneous notes on your statement will show that you knew what the speed limit was and admitted exceeding it.

Never run your mouth with a cop present.  Think before you speak.

While that is true sometimes, it's not everytime.  Case in point:  Me.

I have literally told a cop I was speeding.  I clearly indicted myself.  But you know what?  I pulled over, well off the road.  I kept my hands in clear view.  I waited until the officer asked for identification.  I didn't give the officer a hard time.  I didn't argue. 

And I left, almost always without a ticket, and often times with a verbal warning to slow it down a bit.   The few times I have received a ticket, I've gone to court and asked to have the ticket downgraded.  Every time, it's happened.  In the most memorable time, I was stopped for tailgating a cop in PA (I live in NJ).  Because of court postponements, I didn't have my day in court until 4 months after the ticket was issued.  The cop, then since promoted, clearly didn't remember me.  I told him what I would like to downgrade the ticket to (which was a fine with no points).  The officer talked with the judge and was ok with my recommendation (hell, we even joked at one point).  He charged me with a charge that ironically couldn't apply to me in my home state (failure to sign registration card).  But in the end, we were all pleased with the outcome. 

There are bigger fish to fry - the person after me in court, a cute, younger 20-something, was in there for a DUI and other violations. 

Most people read horror stories on the internet, take them for truth, and pass them along.  Or don't tell the entire story.  We are always reading that cops stop people when they were doing nothing wrong.  I drive every day, and it's a rare car that I'm not seeing doing anything wrong.   I doubt a cop is going to ignore the thousands of vehicles speeding, tailgating, and driving like a lunatic to get someone doing 'nothing'.

I'm living proof that I can sit there, be blatantly honest, and continue on my way.

Of course it's not going to happen every time, but if you *don't* admit you were speeding, it won't make the situation any worse for you, and might make it better should you have grounds to deny you were speeding in court.