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Author Topic: Interstate 81 in Syracuse  (Read 124298 times)

cl94

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1075 on: August 25, 2021, 03:32:12 PM »



The entirety of the roads, or just within Region 3?
Serious question.

The entirety of I-81, but just within Region 3 for everything else (seeing as nothing else spans beyond Region 3 anyways).

There's actually not much besides I-81: just NY/I-690, NY 481, and presumably the new Business 81 Loop. NY 5 is unnumbered, but it would be nice to see it numbered based on its actual mileage from the PA line.

I'd been trying R3 to correct the mileposts on the NY 5 expressway; it has the mileposts from the beginning of the expressway instead of from the PA line.  R5 did the same thing on the Skyway, they either removed them or corrected them (I can't remember).

I'm of the belief all interchanges should have a distance based number, regardless of whether the roadway is an interstate or not. R3 has been inconsistent (no exit numbers on NY 690, but exit numbers on NY 481)

I'd love to see the responses you got and from whom from your "trying."

It's been a few years since I contacted anyone at NYSDOT (since I don't live in New York anymore), but Region 3 was the most pleasant in that regard. We went back and forth in the early 2000s for "Albany Buffalo" to appear on the guide panels approaching the Thruway on the Syracuse area interstates, and they decided to do it with the following sign rehabs. I pointed out the mileposts on NY 5 being wrong, and the engineer that contacted me said "you're absolutely right" but never followed up on it. They also told me that NYSDOT didn't require interchange numbers on non-interstates. Probably the last thing we talked about was the distance based numbering for the Syracuse rebuild and that was before they decided on the grid, but it's been at least five years since that discussion.

Region 2 was tolerant but cooperative, I knew folks that worked in Utica and I actually interviewed there. They knew who I was before the interview. My bugging them probably didn't help the situation.

Meanwhile, R1 has basically told me to F off when I contacted them in the past, to the point where I've given up on contacting them. I caught most of the sign errors R1 has installed in the past 5 years in the plan stage, but they refuse to issue change orders.
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Plutonic Panda

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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1077 on: October 22, 2021, 03:09:50 PM »

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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1078 on: October 22, 2021, 04:09:14 PM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1079 on: October 22, 2021, 04:46:34 PM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
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TheDon102

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1080 on: October 22, 2021, 07:13:42 PM »

This just sucks
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1081 on: October 22, 2021, 07:24:46 PM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1082 on: October 22, 2021, 07:25:32 PM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.
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TheDon102

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1083 on: October 22, 2021, 07:30:23 PM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1084 on: October 22, 2021, 07:34:40 PM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
So?  If they're not needed or there are benefits from doing so, no problem.
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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1085 on: October 22, 2021, 07:40:41 PM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
I'll try:
1.f@$k community grid
2.  Community grid is great
3. Make it more urban, less cars
4. Save our I-81
5. Make Syracuse great again



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TheDon102

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1086 on: October 22, 2021, 07:41:37 PM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
So?  If they're not needed or there are benefits from doing so, no problem.

You can probably find  some benefit for removing every freeway in the state, that doesn't justify it's removal. Name one freeway removal that will actually benefit New York
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1087 on: October 22, 2021, 09:46:50 PM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
So?  If they're not needed or there are benefits from doing so, no problem.

You can probably find  some benefit for removing every freeway in the state, that doesn't justify it's removal. Name one freeway removal that will actually benefit New York
The Sheridan's already gone...to much...shrugging.
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vdeane

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1088 on: October 22, 2021, 11:19:50 PM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
It already is, and the viaduct isn't even down yet.  Every person pushing the removal of I-787 in Albany cities I-81.  And it time it won't just be in state, but nation-wide.  I think it's safe to say that this is one of the most significant freeway removals in the entire history of the country - none have been on such a major route in recent memory, if ever.

"Woefully inadequate" might be a bit much for describing NY's interstate system.  Though there are gaps that would be nice to have filled (though it's worth noting that some of the most significant gaps are actually in neighboring states - namely, US 15 in PA and MD, US 7 in VT, and MA/RI 146), NY is one of the states where uttering the phrase "[insert state here]'s interstate system" doesn't induce laughter.  Contrast with Nevada, for example, where the interstates aren't all that useful for in-state travel (though I-11 will change this when completed) - they're just a couple of corridors that happen to pass through and have 3di connectors.  We don't even have to go far to find states with more major gaps than NY - VT's interstate system is built to serve MA's interests and not its own, and as a result the north-south interstate is through the middle of nowhere rather than serving the US 7 corridor.

This whole project exemplifies the whole "random collection of corridors that happen to share the same brand" vision of the interstate system that I've complained about multiple times before.  The original interstate system and the 1969 additions make up a beautiful system that anyone with even a passing interest in transportation can't help but marvel at.  Everything since has been planned on a per-corridor level, some of which (such as I-49, I-86, and the occasionally proposed CA 99 upgrade) fits in nicely filling in the remaining gaps, while others (such as I-14, I-87, and parts of the I-69 system) arguably detract from the interstate system's greatness.  These days, there's no consideration for how things work together as a system, only how corridors will work in isolation (not just roads, either... bike, pedestrian, and transit infrastructure often has the same problem).  Just look at how all the traffic analysis for I-81 looks at trips to/from downtown, or north-south through the area, with little to no attention paid to how it affects trips from the western suburbs to/from the south, or traffic passing through between the Finger Lakes/Lake Ontario and the Southern Tier/PA.  While the fastest route will still likely be all freeway due to traffic lights, traffic will have to go way out of the way, going all the way across the city and then most of the way back just to make what is now a direct movement.  It's bad enough that traffic from many of the western suburbs has to take non-freeway routes to get around so much of the area already.

And don't even get me started again on this business route I-81 stuff.  I hate the business routes - if I had my way, the whole concept would be deleted.  Heck, I'd extend that to bannered routes on other systems too.  Want an alternate route?  Add a suffix, in a lower tier system if you need to.  NY has the right idea in that respect (this is, incidentally, why I hate I-35E/W and I-69E/C/W as much as I do; they function as splits in the route and not alternate routes as suffixes should).  Plus it generates another gap in the intestate system proper when I'd rather see the number of gaps reduced, not increased (just because it's a freeway north of I-690 doesn't mean it won't be a gap in the interstate system).  I've argued about it less after finding out there are actual reasons for it beyond a failed attempt to placate DestiNY USA and/or someone somewhere trying to expand a concept I fundamentally don't like into NY, but that doesn't mean I've really made peace with it.  It will be very interesting to see how it functions, in any case - NY is a state where everything is "route X" (at least it is west of the Capital District), so I can see potential for confusion.

(personal opinion)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 11:22:09 PM by vdeane »
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1089 on: October 22, 2021, 11:39:37 PM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
Well, it is possible just a lot of work. Iíll probably go through some of them. Hell if I get bored enough while waiting to start my job I might just give it a shot. It really should be hard just tedious work. Either pro freeway or pro removal or unrelated.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1090 on: October 23, 2021, 12:01:57 AM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
Well, it is possible just a lot of work. Iíll probably go through some of them. Hell if I get bored enough while waiting to start my job I might just give it a shot. It really should be hard just tedious work. Either pro freeway or pro removal or unrelated.
Not experienced with public comments, are you.  Just at the public hearings, the comments were much more nuanced:  "Since we're proceeding with the grid, please do X," where X is any number of things, just for one example.

NYSDOT has to respond to them all; I'd just wait for that product.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1091 on: October 23, 2021, 12:51:58 AM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
Well, it is possible just a lot of work. Iíll probably go through some of them. Hell if I get bored enough while waiting to start my job I might just give it a shot. It really should be hard just tedious work. Either pro freeway or pro removal or unrelated.
Not experienced with public comments, are you.  Just at the public hearings, the comments were much more nuanced:  "Since we're proceeding with the grid, please do X," where X is any number of things, just for one example.

NYSDOT has to respond to them all; I'd just wait for that product.
Iíve been looking at them for 10 years as a hobby. Iíd lump those who say things like ďsince were preceding with the gridĒ as those who basically support the grid which they do now.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1092 on: October 23, 2021, 10:42:11 AM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
Well, it is possible just a lot of work. Iíll probably go through some of them. Hell if I get bored enough while waiting to start my job I might just give it a shot. It really should be hard just tedious work. Either pro freeway or pro removal or unrelated.
Not experienced with public comments, are you.  Just at the public hearings, the comments were much more nuanced:  "Since we're proceeding with the grid, please do X," where X is any number of things, just for one example.

NYSDOT has to respond to them all; I'd just wait for that product.
Iíve been looking at them for 10 years as a hobby. Iíd lump those who say things like ďsince were preceding with the gridĒ as those who basically support the grid which they do now.
A stretch of an assumption.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1093 on: October 23, 2021, 10:54:20 AM »

Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
Well, it is possible just a lot of work. Iíll probably go through some of them. Hell if I get bored enough while waiting to start my job I might just give it a shot. It really should be hard just tedious work. Either pro freeway or pro removal or unrelated.
Not experienced with public comments, are you.  Just at the public hearings, the comments were much more nuanced:  "Since we're proceeding with the grid, please do X," where X is any number of things, just for one example.

NYSDOT has to respond to them all; I'd just wait for that product.
Iíve been looking at them for 10 years as a hobby. Iíd lump those who say things like ďsince were preceding with the gridĒ as those who basically support the grid which they do now.
A stretch of an assumption.
Either way it gives an idea of the comments. You really seem to be against any and all notions that the grid idea just sucks and is being pushed as part of an agenda not that the richest country in the world canít do what tons of other developing countries are doing.

I will make an assumption and say there are likely a lot of comments like mine that make it very clear the grid is the wrong way forward and I-81 needs to remain either as a tunnel or an elevated viaduct. If you canít fathom the 10 billion dollars to tunnel it fine Iíll compromise and support the viaduct, even if that means substandard design as that is still better than a surface street.
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TheDon102

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1094 on: October 23, 2021, 11:25:22 AM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
So?  If they're not needed or there are benefits from doing so, no problem.

You can probably find  some benefit for removing every freeway in the state, that doesn't justify it's removal. Name one freeway removal that will actually benefit New York
The Sheridan's already gone...to much...shrugging.

If the sheredian was actually completed as intended and not some aborted freeway that doesn't do much anyway would it have been removed?
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1095 on: October 23, 2021, 11:31:36 AM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
So?  If they're not needed or there are benefits from doing so, no problem.

You can probably find  some benefit for removing every freeway in the state, that doesn't justify it's removal. Name one freeway removal that will actually benefit New York
The Sheridan's already gone...to much...shrugging.

If the sheredian was actually completed as intended and not some aborted freeway that doesn't do much anyway would it have been removed?
If a bear is in the woods and a blue tree falls, do you eat an avocado?
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1096 on: October 23, 2021, 11:37:42 AM »



Iíd like to see a summary of the comments.
Not sure that is possible given the multiple thousands that were received.
Well, it is possible just a lot of work. Iíll probably go through some of them. Hell if I get bored enough while waiting to start my job I might just give it a shot. It really should be hard just tedious work. Either pro freeway or pro removal or unrelated.
Not experienced with public comments, are you.  Just at the public hearings, the comments were much more nuanced:  "Since we're proceeding with the grid, please do X," where X is any number of things, just for one example.

NYSDOT has to respond to them all; I'd just wait for that product.
Iíve been looking at them for 10 years as a hobby. Iíd lump those who say things like ďsince were preceding with the gridĒ as those who basically support the grid which they do now.
A stretch of an assumption.
Either way it gives an idea of the comments. You really seem to be against any and all notions that the grid idea just sucks and is being pushed as part of an agenda not that the richest country in the world canít do what tons of other developing countries are doing.

I will make an assumption and say there are likely a lot of comments like mine that make it very clear the grid is the wrong way forward and I-81 needs to remain either as a tunnel or an elevated viaduct. If you canít fathom the 10 billion dollars to tunnel it fine Iíll compromise and support the viaduct, even if that means substandard design as that is still better than a surface street.

You mean, either way it could misconstrue the comments.

At this point, I am not sure where my opinion lies -- probably just resignation that the community grid will be a reality, rather than enthusiasm over the idea.  I certainly and personally disagree with the idea that it will have some sort of restorative justice for the neighborhoods obliterated decades ago -- the area has just changed too much.  You would have to demolish and relocate all the medical and commercial facilities now in the area and totally rebuild those neighborhoods...and the new residential properties would probably be considered gentrification in the end.  So, no one wins.

We'll see how your summary, which sounds like it is already set up to be biased towards your own opinion, matches up with the official accounts.
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TheDon102

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1097 on: October 23, 2021, 11:53:27 AM »

Public comment period has closed:

https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/large-number-of-public-comments-delays-release-of-final-i-81-design/
I like how NYSDOT is mentioned and quoted as if it were some faceless entity.

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

New York is already woefully inadequate in its Interstate Network. The removal of 81 through Syracuse will 100% be used to teardown other freeways across the state.
So?  If they're not needed or there are benefits from doing so, no problem.

You can probably find  some benefit for removing every freeway in the state, that doesn't justify it's removal. Name one freeway removal that will actually benefit New York
The Sheridan's already gone...to much...shrugging.

If the sheredian was actually completed as intended and not some aborted freeway that doesn't do much anyway would it have been removed?
If a bear is in the woods and a blue tree falls, do you eat an avocado?

 :spin:
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Mr. Mattť

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1098 on: October 23, 2021, 12:03:02 PM »

If the sheredian was actually completed as intended and not some aborted freeway that doesn't do much anyway would it have been removed?
If a bear is in the woods and a blue tree falls, do you eat an avocado?

*one hand claps*
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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1099 on: October 23, 2021, 12:39:54 PM »

If the viaduct teardown really does proceed, I would consider "faceless entity" extremely complimentary.

I am going to have to stay focused on more positive projects, like the CSVT and I-80/I-99 rebuild, because this one is really dangerous for one's mental health.
Hyperbole.  It'll be fine.

No, I did intend for it to be taken literally, though you don't have to take it that way if you don't want.
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