My humble criticism of the FYA: an unintentional ambiguity created

[MisterSG1]

I think this is the first thread where someone's issue with the FYA comes from the solid yellow arrow...

By the rule book we all know what a solid yellow arrow is supposed to mean, complete the turn if in the intersection and do not start the turn if you are not in the intersection.

Ontario Ministry of Transportation, Driver's Handbook

A yellow – or amber – light means the red light is about to appear. You must stop if you can do so safely; otherwise, go with caution.

A little bit different definitions. But the handbook makes the distinction. A solid yellow does not automatically equate to "go", despite what common practice has developed.

And I challenge you, those who say that the FYA allows switching between PPLT and FPLT modes....while yes it would allow the left turn mode to indeed be amphibious, the question I ask, is there anywhere that actually switches between PPLT and FPLT at different points of the day?

There are multiple signals in the Las Vegas, NV area using FYA displays that switch into protected only mode during peak hour times. Las Vegas uses a lot of coordination on its arterials, so many left turns are run lead-lag to improve coordination. Simultaneously, platoons of opposing through vehicles on these arterials are typically heavy with little-to-no gaps to allow a permitted turn safely. (Many such situations are on arterials with three through lanes and speeds of 45mph or greater, which increases likelihood of no gap in peak travel times.) The protected mode only operates during peak periods, so permitted turning movements are allowed in off-peak times when it is more likely for there to be more gaps in opposing traffic.

At some signals, prior to installation of FYAs, the same effect was achieved with "Dallas Phasing" in a 5-aspect signal head (doghouse/vertical stack). This required a separate signal head anyway, with louvers on the green and yellow balls to allow permitted indications when the adjacent through vehicles had a red--I believe this also required extra signal controller programming to make it work. The FYA display achieves the same purpose, with a 4-aspect head and no additional programming required.

Ok, here's the link to the MTO on the yellow arrow, which appears under simultaneous left turn:

Ontario Ministry of Transportation, Driver's Handbook

After the left-turn green arrow, a yellow arrow may appear. This means the green light is about to appear for traffic in one or both directions. Do not start your left turn. Stop if you can do so safely; otherwise, complete your turn with caution.

"Complete your turn with caution", this would have to be revamped slightly if FYA ever does find its way here. It would have to become complete your turn with caution and (possibly) yield to oncoming traffic.

The issue is more or less driver behavior, while a lot of drivers seem to understand that a yellow ball is moreso an extension of the red, this is definitely not true when drivers see a yellow arrow. Drivers here in the GTA will not stop turning until the arrow disappears completely. This is the whole issue why I made this topic.

So what is described here in the definition of a yellow left arrow in Ontario in the handbook, it is NEVER and I mean never seen out on the roads. If you were to stop on a yellow arrow, prepare to hear some horns honking behind you!

[MisterSG1]

So here is my solution

Picture a doghouse signal (or a 4-head signal with a bimodal arrow which we use here) or however this kind of phase is oriented on the signals in your area.

Take the green ball out, and replace it with a FLASHING YELLOW BALL.

Affix what you show to determine when a signal is a fully protected left, such as the "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" sign, or the "lane turns left" sign (you know what I mean, what you see to show which lane goes which direction). Attach this next to the light, and voila you have done it without having ambiguous solid yellow arrows and puzzling flashing yellow arrows.

As for the flashing yellow ball, in Michigan they used to display a flashing red ball during phases of left turns in lights in that state for years, and that did not cause much of a problem.

This way all the traffic rules remain the same, and you have all the benefits of the FYA.

...

My alternative to the FYA eliminates the issues involving the non right of way yellow arrow, I think this is what they should have went for.

Your solution has some other issues though:

Part of the beauty of an FYA display is that you can have all arrow indications to control turning movements, which needs fewer signs next to signal heads. Using a flashing yellow ball for the permissive movement, with adjacent through green balls, introduces other ambiguities. For your idea, you now HAVE TO use a sign with the left turn display, or use louvers over the flashing circular yellow and normal circular yellow, to avoid confusion between a circular indication for left turns versus another circular indication for adjacent through traffic.


Again, the steady yellow indication previously never assigned a right of way. The yellow was an indication that the prior signal phase that allowed a permitted or protected movement is transitioning from green to red. That's it. The only change now is it indicates a transition from green/flashing yellow to red.

Yes, you may HAVE to use a sign, but what is the issue with that. Didn't these appear everywhere where FYA were installed?



Such signs don't cause problems, I mean even in downtown Toronto which prides itself as a huge multicultural city, you have 4 different types of lights now  at one intersection on the newly redesigned Queen's Quay, and well they don't seem to cause problems as to what they mean, even if it means placing a sign next to each signal:

[MisterSG1]

As Brandon had said earlier:

Lagging lefts allow the permissive part first, letting that traffic take gaps in traffic, and waiting for the protective phase if there are no gaps.  It then allows the left turn lane to clear on the protective phase after the through signal has turned red.  It also means that no one is stuck in the intersection after the signal has turned red, and through traffic can start up on green much faster. 

Since the lagging left is operationally superior, if it can be set up in such a way as to avoid the yellow trap it should be done.

Many lagging lefts use a 4-signal display: R Y G GA.  No need for YA when it is shown at the exact same time as a green.


* Many arterials in the outer boroughs of NYC do this extensively as most minor streets are one-way.  Here is a stretch of Northern Blvd with a lagging left at every signal, even at minor streets:


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7570836,-73.8703917,3a,75y,277.4h,74.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIaG1KhQM4Y5n4occoShj6w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1

[The most current signal has 5 heads, but look at previous years, only 4 heads were used.]

But is the lagging left superior? I could see benefits in the lagging simultaneous left turn, which we oddly don't use here but wouldn't require any FYAs to set up (unless you wanted one to start prematurely, like how leading simultaneous lefts end prematurely for one side)

But as for the lagging "advanced green" as I call it, that is green ball with green arrow, the exact same issue that Brandon quotes does in fact happen in that scenario. One side will face a FYA, the other side will have a green ball and green arrow. Traffic sitting in the left turn lane (on the side facing the FYA) like they normally do in any permissive turn will keep turning until the very last possible second even after the light becomes yellow. This causes vehicles to be completing turns in the all-red phase and even when the cross traffic begins its sequence. As oncoming traffic will have drivers who run reds, and people making the turn rightfully will have to be very cautious and turn only if they know for certain a vehicle is stopping.

I can see all this being avoided with lagging simultaneous lefts, which doesn't require FYAs to be set up and can be done with doghouses.

It's also of course worth mentioning that with any lagging turn movement, you have the potential to overload the left turn lane into the lanes that proceed straight, causing a backup on the road. As the protected phase only happens until traffic proceeding straight turns red for at least one side.

[Revive 755]

Yes, you may HAVE to use a sign, but what is the issue with that. Didn't these appear everywhere where FYA were installed?

That sign is not MUTCD compliant in the US since the yellow arrow on black ball symbol has not been approved, although that has not stopped it nor some variants with the yellow arrow being dashed from popping up.  There have been a few new FYA heads in Wisconsin and Nebraska that have been installed without the supplemental sign.

Such signs don't cause problems, I mean even in downtown Toronto which prides itself as a huge multicultural city, you have 4 different types of lights now  at one intersection on the newly redesigned Queen's Quay, and well they don't seem to cause problems as to what they mean, even if it means placing a sign next to each signal:

Relying on a sign can become an issue if the sign should be blown or knocked off the mast arm while the signal head needing the sign remains intact, creating confusion when a motorist sees two different colored circular indications at the same time.

As for the above photo, I see that intersection also having problems with the signal heads being poorly located (the left turn heads are too far to the left) and issues with overloading the driver, who has to find which signal head applies to him, then see what signs go with the signal head.  The driver is probably already trying to find street signs for navigation and watching for disobedient pedestrians, and does not need to be distracted further with having to read additional signs.

[jeffandnicole]

But does the intersection actually have issues, or are we making a bunch of assumptions based on a single photo that 100% of the drivers using the intersection don't have?

[roadfro]

It probably works fine for there, and I imagine if one was actually driving on the street you'd have a better context. Signal heads are poorly located though.

However, it seems like some turn arrows and white indication transit signals could reduce potential confusion and sign clutter...

[UCFKnights]

Yes, you may HAVE to use a sign, but what is the issue with that. Didn't these appear everywhere where FYA were installed?

In Florida I'd say most PPLT don't have signs... whether they use a FYA or doghouse.

[MisterSG1]

It probably works fine for there, and I imagine if one was actually driving on the street you'd have a better context. Signal heads are poorly located though.

However, it seems like some turn arrows and white indication transit signals could reduce potential confusion and sign clutter...

I believe the reason for the location of the protected only left turn signal heads is because that's where they were located before prior to the massive reconstruction that led to the road diet.

Before Queen's Quay had two carriageways with the streetcar tracks in the middle, as you can see, the south side of Queen's Quay is now a bicycle path, which has now moved all traffic to what was originally the westbound carriageway.

The streetcar and road were closed for several years due to this reconstruction.


As for left arrows, that's kind of hard when the Ontario Traffic Manual to my knowledge only allows us to use an arrow for the green light, yellow and red must be balls. So there would have to be some rewriting to the laws to accomodate that.

[roadfro]

As for left arrows, that's kind of hard when the Ontario Traffic Manual to my knowledge only allows us to use an arrow for the green light, yellow and red must be balls. So there would have to be some rewriting to the laws to accomodate that.

I think it's interesting that Canada and the US often share traffic control innovations, yet the concept of the red or yellow arrow has lagged behind for some time and needs legal changes to implement. (Although, the same could be said for some US states, which have only recently begun phasing in red arrows despite red arrows being a thing for 40+ years.)

[doogie1303]

I think that the overall problem lies with how complicated we've made it to signal left turns these days. In the old days, if you needed a protected phase to do a left turn at an intersection, you just added a green arrow head to a standard 3-ball light. During the protected turn, the arrow was on, when the turn was permissive but not protected, the arrow was off (just the green ball), and the driver was EXPECTED to know that and make sure traffic was clear before making the left turn.

Left turn signals, red arrows/yellow arrows/FYAs have just added a layer of complexity, that and the "overuse" of them at intersections that don't necessarily require them.

[jeffandnicole]

I think that the overall problem lies with how complicated we've made it to signal left turns these days. In the old days, if you needed a protected phase to do a left turn at an intersection, you just added a green arrow head to a standard 3-ball light. During the protected turn, the arrow was on, when the turn was permissive but not protected, the arrow was off (just the green ball), and the driver was EXPECTED to know that and make sure traffic was clear before making the left turn.

Left turn signals, red arrows/yellow arrows/FYAs have just added a layer of complexity, that and the "overuse" of them at intersections that don't necessarily require them.

+Infinity.

[jakeroot]

In the old days, if you needed a protected phase to do a left turn at an intersection, you just added a green arrow head to a standard 3-ball light. During the protected turn, the arrow was on, when the turn was permissive but not protected, the arrow was off (just the green ball), and the driver was EXPECTED to know that and make sure traffic was clear before making the left turn.

So, like a bi-modal green/yellow arrow? Or just a green arrow that randomly expired?

[MisterSG1]

In the old days, if you needed a protected phase to do a left turn at an intersection, you just added a green arrow head to a standard 3-ball light. During the protected turn, the arrow was on, when the turn was permissive but not protected, the arrow was off (just the green ball), and the driver was EXPECTED to know that and make sure traffic was clear before making the left turn.

So, like a bi-modal green/yellow arrow? Or just a green arrow that randomly expired?

In my early days growing up the GTA, I do recall seeing such arrows that used to just be green, and then disappear....and the old flashing green balls I've spoken about, that also has the exact same problem as it becomes a solid green at random.

I think it's interesting that Canada and the US often share traffic control innovations, yet the concept of the red or yellow arrow has lagged behind for some time and needs legal changes to implement. (Although, the same could be said for some US states, which have only recently begun phasing in red arrows despite red arrows being a thing for 40+ years.)

They were reluctant in adopting the basic conventions of the doghouse in Ontario for the longest time because by law (as far as I know anyways), arrow signals meant something VERY specific. To this day in Ontario, if there's an intersection where you can only make one legal movement during the green phase, the light will show an arrow for that direction. For instance, the intersection of Yonge/Dundas in downtown Toronto has fully prohibited left and right turns, so the green phases show an arrow pointing upwards instead of a green ball as proceeding straight is the only move you can make. Here is Yonge & Dundas below showing the green arrow:

https://goo.gl/maps/hziLmx7SwfK2

Similarly, in the GSV image of the 401 WB offramp at Hwy 25 BELOW, as you can only turn left at this intersection, thus during the green phase it shows a left green arrow, yellow and red are shown by ball signals though:

https://goo.gl/maps/Md6uDZ85Ad62

*edit*
BUT ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING, whenever arrow signals are used, this means that the driver facing this arrow is ALSO protected from pedestrians during this phase, so what I said earlier isn't 100% true, take for instance the intersection of Victoria/Adelaide downtown, traffic facing SB on Victoria must turn WB on Adelaide, yet they face a four headed signal with a bimodal arrow.....the arrow is only used when fully protected from pedestrians, here's the intersection below:

https://goo.gl/maps/Ego7AWYgJvn

I know I am going off on a tangent, but the reluctance to accept the doghouse equivalent signal in part was due to being able to make movements other than what the arrow movement is showing.

This is why Ontario allowed what we call the simultaneous left turn, that is RED BALL with GREEN ARROW was because it fit in with the rules regarding arrows being the move you must make.

Until sometime in the late 1980s, the movement that can be described in a doghouse with a GREEN BALL and GREEN ARROW was shown instead with a FLASHING GREEN BALL, telling the drivers facing that light that their side was protected completely against oncoming traffic while the green ball flashed. The reasoning behind this is that it creates a conflict as to what the arrow signal meant before, consider with a green ball and green arrow that now one could choose to drive straight or turn left. Of course after they decided to adapt the conventions of the doghouse signal, flashing green balls still existed......some green balls still flashed in the heart of downtown Toronto well into the late 2000s before finally being replaced with a four headed signal with bimodal arrow.

And to this day, only in the permissive four headed signal, will one encounter a yellow arrow here in Ontario. Any kind of protected only signal will show a yellow ball and red ball.

[Super Mateo]

So, like a bi-modal green/yellow arrow? Or just a green arrow that randomly expired?

Before it was upgraded, there used to be a sensorless, timed light at 103rd and Western in Chicago.  It would show a red ball with a green arrow for protected lefts, then the green arrow would disappear and the light would go back to red. After a pause of about 2-3 seconds, the through lights would turn green. Lights were timed equally for opposing directions.  They were four section lights and there was no yellow arrow or bimodal.  The pause time was a substitute for the yellow arrow. The whole installation was replaced sometime between 1999 and 2007, and it's now a standard installation with the usual 5 section lights seen throughout Chicago.  Whether or not the yellow arrow was beneficial at this particular intersection is debatable.

[doogie1303]

So, like a bi-modal green/yellow arrow? Or just a green arrow that randomly expired?

I'm talking "old" days, no bi-modal arrows. There was just a green arrow that extinguished, granted a pause was left in before oncoming traffic was changed to green to allow for the intersection to clear. Eventually the bi-modal arrow was added to give drivers more of a indication when the protected phase was ending.

I'm trying to remember when I saw the first bi-modal arrow, the old fiber optic ones ... I think it was like in the early 80's.

[Duke87]

The point raised in the OP is an interesting one although one that strikes me as minor compared to another ambiguity that FYA creates: inconsistent meaning of flashing lights.

A flashing yellow arrow means yield. A flashing yellow ball does not, it simply means caution.

Of course, left turning traffic always has to yield unless it has a green arrow, so one could argue that the yield directive is implicit and the flashing yellow arrow itself merely means caution the same as the ball.

[7/8]

Until sometime in the late 1980s, the movement that can be described in a doghouse with a GREEN BALL and GREEN ARROW was shown instead with a FLASHING GREEN BALL, telling the drivers facing that light that their side was protected completely against oncoming traffic while the green ball flashed. The reasoning behind this is that it creates a conflict as to what the arrow signal meant before, consider with a green ball and green arrow that now one could choose to drive straight or turn left. Of course after they decided to adapt the conventions of the doghouse signal, flashing green balls still existed......some green balls still flashed in the heart of downtown Toronto well into the late 2000s before finally being replaced with a four headed signal with bimodal arrow.

As of 2015, there is still a flashing green ball in Thornbury on Highway 26 (it certainly looks weird in the picture)

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.5617601,-80.4527419,3a,30y,293.8h,93.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sODdM6w84KafyXR59QSBBYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Such signs don't cause problems, I mean even in downtown Toronto which prides itself as a huge multicultural city, you have 4 different types of lights now  at one intersection on the newly redesigned Queen's Quay, and well they don't seem to cause problems as to what they mean, even if it means placing a sign next to each signal:

For the above picture; the two signals on the left "for left turns", why don't they have all three bulbs use arrows, that way the "Left Turn Signal" signs wouldn't be needed? I think it would be less confusing too.

I'm glad I read this thread before encountering the FYA in my travels. It would have freaked me out, not knowing what it meant 

[MisterSG1]

The point raised in the OP is an interesting one although one that strikes me as minor compared to another ambiguity that FYA creates: inconsistent meaning of flashing lights.

A flashing yellow arrow means yield. A flashing yellow ball does not, it simply means caution.

Of course, left turning traffic always has to yield unless it has a green arrow, so one could argue that the yield directive is implicit and the flashing yellow arrow itself merely means caution the same as the ball.

I'm not sure if I follow you, my interpretation as to what the flashing yellow arrow meant when I first heard of it, I assumed it meant "make a left turn only if safe to do so", I've asked other people who I know who have drove for years and were unaware of the FYA and they thought it meant the same thing as I thought. The FYA is based on the meaning of the flashing yellow ball.

As I have stated before, when I first seen the flashing red ball left signals in Michigan years ago, I easily deduced what they mean, and this was back when I was 13 years old:

Obviously, you must stop in the left turn lane, and can only make the left turn if safe to do so. If instead there was a flashing yellow ball, I'm sure most could figure that out to mean the same thing except it didn't require the driver to stop. Indeed, if one were to make a left turn on a flashing yellow ball hanging by itself in the boonies, they of course have to yield.

I've always understood the flashing yellow ball to mean "proceed if safe to do so", rather than proceed, as so many think is the case. Similarly, one can only make a left turn if it is safe to do so, so there is no ambiguity on the meaning of the flashing yellow.

Indeed, the FYA loses the sacred meaning of an arrow signal, which I've stated many times on this thread before, Arrow was very synonymous of meaning "right of way" but this is lost, especially with the solid yellow arrow problem I've been discussing. I offered a solution that allows us to keep the FYA-esque signal but keep the meaning of arrows intact which I posted earlier in this thread.

As for the flashing green, I'm not sure if the MUTCD defines it, but I would understand that as meaning the right of way favors all movements who face the flashing green. Indeed, this is precisely what the flashing green ball phase meant in intersections in several Canadian provinces. I would assume although it was never seen, that if a flashing green ball appeared as a beacon blinking by itself in the boonies, then it would mean that all of my movements have the right of way.....oncoming traffic would thus face a flashing red ball as would the other two directions. But again this is a fictional scenario that was never used.

[MisterSG1]

Such signs don't cause problems, I mean even in downtown Toronto which prides itself as a huge multicultural city, you have 4 different types of lights now  at one intersection on the newly redesigned Queen's Quay, and well they don't seem to cause problems as to what they mean, even if it means placing a sign next to each signal:

For the above picture; the two signals on the left "for left turns", why don't they have all three bulbs use arrows, that way the "Left Turn Signal" signs wouldn't be needed? I think it would be less confusing too.

I'm glad I read this thread before encountering the FYA in my travels. It would have freaked me out, not knowing what it meant 

The reason they don't use a red left arrow and yellow left arrow is because by Ontario law, only the green signal is allowed to have an arrow.

Yes, I understand that we have yellow arrows for protected-permissive signals, but if a light is solely dedicated to a specific movement, only green can have the arrow.

[kphoger]

As for the flashing green, I'm not sure if the MUTCD defines it, but I would understand that as meaning the right of way favors all movements who face the flashing green. Indeed, this is precisely what the flashing green ball phase meant in intersections in several Canadian provinces. I would assume although it was never seen, that if a flashing green ball appeared as a beacon blinking by itself in the boonies, then it would mean that all of my movements have the right of way.....oncoming traffic would thus face a flashing red ball as would the other two directions. But again this is a fictional scenario that was never used.

It's worth noting that our neighbor to the south makes wide use of the flashing green ball, and it means something quite different from what you would apparently assume. In Mexico, a flashing green ball (and flashing green left arrow, where those are used) means your right of way is about to end, i.e. the light will soon change to yellow. I think it would be bad business for the U.S. to consider using a flashing green at all, when in our neighboring nations it means such different things.

The Mexican meaning seems more natural to me:
Flashing red = Stop
Flashing yellow = Give way if needed
Flashing green = Prepare to yield/stop

Less natural to me is this progression:
Flashing red = Stop
Flashing yellow = Give way if needed
Flashing green = You have right of way

[MisterSG1]

As for the flashing green, I'm not sure if the MUTCD defines it, but I would understand that as meaning the right of way favors all movements who face the flashing green. Indeed, this is precisely what the flashing green ball phase meant in intersections in several Canadian provinces. I would assume although it was never seen, that if a flashing green ball appeared as a beacon blinking by itself in the boonies, then it would mean that all of my movements have the right of way.....oncoming traffic would thus face a flashing red ball as would the other two directions. But again this is a fictional scenario that was never used.

It's worth noting that our neighbor to the south makes wide use of the flashing green ball, and it means something quite different from what you would apparently assume. In Mexico, a flashing green ball (and flashing green left arrow, where those are used) means your right of way is about to end, i.e. the light will soon change to yellow. I think it would be bad business for the U.S. to consider using a flashing green at all, when in our neighboring nations it means such different things.

The Mexican meaning seems more natural to me:
Flashing red = Stop
Flashing yellow = Give way if needed
Flashing green = Prepare to yield/stop

Less natural to me is this progression:
Flashing red = Stop
Flashing yellow = Give way if needed
Flashing green = You have right of way

And the real kicker to all of this, even in different parts of Canada, a flashing green ball means something totally different. In BC, it means that this traffic light is solely controlled by pedestrians.

The flashing green ball in Ontario is practically all but extinct, very few intersections exist, and only one in the huge GTA as far as I know still has a flashing green ball. PPLT movements at intersections now basically mirror those covered under the MUTCD with the use of green and yellow arrows.

Personally I think my progression makes more sense as it allows more movement with how much more "positive" the signal is, look at Google Maps, intuition tells you that green means traffic is moving, yellow means that traffic is moving slowly, and that red means traffic is moving at a stop and go pace. In the Mexican example, the flashing green doesn't make sense to me as it seems to indicate a negative compared to what the red and yellow flashes meant.

In some areas of Canada, even some parts of Ontario, they allow the left turn arrows to flash....this doesn't mean anything different at all (even though I'm not much of a fan of it). The Mexican seems to have uneccesarily created a second step to get to red, the single step to red (the yellow) is all you need, that is the purpose of the yellow, to tell drivers that the green is over and the light will be red, and to stop if you can.

[7/8]

And the real kicker to all of this, even in different parts of Canada, a flashing green ball means something totally different. In BC, it means that this traffic light is solely controlled by pedestrians.

The flashing green ball in Ontario is practically all but extinct, very few intersections exist, and only one in the huge GTA as far as I know still has a flashing green ball. PPLT movements at intersections now basically mirror those covered under the MUTCD with the use of green and yellow arrows.

Personally I think my progression makes more sense as it allows more movement with how much more "positive" the signal is, look at Google Maps, intuition tells you that green means traffic is moving, yellow means that traffic is moving slowly, and that red means traffic is moving at a stop and go pace. In the Mexican example, the flashing green doesn't make sense to me as it seems to indicate a negative compared to what the red and yellow flashes meant.

In some areas of Canada, even some parts of Ontario, they allow the left turn arrows to flash....this doesn't mean anything different at all (even though I'm not much of a fan of it). The Mexican seems to have uneccesarily created a second step to get to red, the single step to red (the yellow) is all you need, that is the purpose of the yellow, to tell drivers that the green is over and the light will be red, and to stop if you can.

Could someone explain BC's version of flashing green in the most simplistic way possible? 

I've noticed in KW that left turn signals use flashing green arrows, while right turn signals use solid green arrows. I've also noticed that going NB on Regina St at Bridgeport Rd in Waterloo, the left turn arrow completely lacks a yellow arrow. It goes from green arrow to nothing. Does the OTM Book 12 allow this, since it seems sketchy

[jakeroot]

Could someone explain BC's version of flashing green in the most simplistic way possible? 

Flashing green orbs indicate signal heads that are pedestrian-controlled. If the signal is at an intersection, the intersecting street(s) have stop signs.

It's common to see driver's gun it (stop sign be-damned) when they see the pedestrian signal face displaying anything except a solid red hand, because they know cross-traffic is facing a red signal, and it may be a while until they have another chance to go. Vancouver's main arterial roads are chock full of flashing green orbs.

[7/8]

Could someone explain BC's version of flashing green in the most simplistic way possible? 

Flashing green orbs indicate signal heads that are pedestrian-controlled. If the signal is at an intersection, the intersecting street(s) have stop signs.

It's common to see driver's gun it (stop sign be-damned) when they see the pedestrian signal face displaying anything except a solid red hand, because they know cross-traffic is facing a red signal, and it may be a while until they have another chance to go. Vancouver's main arterial roads are chock full of flashing green orbs.

Okay, so would it be like this intersection in Waterloo (Albert St and Seagram Dr):
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4722513,-80.5300766,3a,37.5y,131.98h,89.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL3hPVQpxMHBE6kKN5Hz0-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Except while in Ontario we would use a solid green, in B.C. this would have a flashing green.

I've found these a bit confusing. When sitting at the red light facing north on Albert, it feels tempting to make the "left on red" if no cars are on Seagram since you wouldn't be passing through the crosswalk. But I'm not sure if this is allowed.

[MisterSG1]

And the real kicker to all of this, even in different parts of Canada, a flashing green ball means something totally different. In BC, it means that this traffic light is solely controlled by pedestrians.

The flashing green ball in Ontario is practically all but extinct, very few intersections exist, and only one in the huge GTA as far as I know still has a flashing green ball. PPLT movements at intersections now basically mirror those covered under the MUTCD with the use of green and yellow arrows.

Personally I think my progression makes more sense as it allows more movement with how much more "positive" the signal is, look at Google Maps, intuition tells you that green means traffic is moving, yellow means that traffic is moving slowly, and that red means traffic is moving at a stop and go pace. In the Mexican example, the flashing green doesn't make sense to me as it seems to indicate a negative compared to what the red and yellow flashes meant.

In some areas of Canada, even some parts of Ontario, they allow the left turn arrows to flash....this doesn't mean anything different at all (even though I'm not much of a fan of it). The Mexican seems to have uneccesarily created a second step to get to red, the single step to red (the yellow) is all you need, that is the purpose of the yellow, to tell drivers that the green is over and the light will be red, and to stop if you can.

Could someone explain BC's version of flashing green in the most simplistic way possible? 

I've noticed in KW that left turn signals use flashing green arrows, while right turn signals use solid green arrows. I've also noticed that going NB on Regina St at Bridgeport Rd in Waterloo, the left turn arrow completely lacks a yellow arrow. It goes from green arrow to nothing. Does the OTM Book 12 allow this, since it seems sketchy

Does the intersection you mention use split phasing, because if it does, the green ball and green arrow both end simultaneously and just a yellow ball appears.