News:

Per request, I added a Forum Status page while revamping the AARoads back end.
- Alex

Main Menu

My humble criticism of the FYA: an unintentional ambiguity created

Started by MisterSG1, June 12, 2016, 01:32:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

7/8

Quote from: MisterSG1 on July 19, 2016, 08:34:54 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on July 19, 2016, 06:18:59 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on July 11, 2016, 10:44:49 PM
And the real kicker to all of this, even in different parts of Canada, a flashing green ball means something totally different. In BC, it means that this traffic light is solely controlled by pedestrians.

The flashing green ball in Ontario is practically all but extinct, very few intersections exist, and only one in the huge GTA as far as I know still has a flashing green ball. PPLT movements at intersections now basically mirror those covered under the MUTCD with the use of green and yellow arrows.

Personally I think my progression makes more sense as it allows more movement with how much more "positive" the signal is, look at Google Maps, intuition tells you that green means traffic is moving, yellow means that traffic is moving slowly, and that red means traffic is moving at a stop and go pace. In the Mexican example, the flashing green doesn't make sense to me as it seems to indicate a negative compared to what the red and yellow flashes meant.

In some areas of Canada, even some parts of Ontario, they allow the left turn arrows to flash....this doesn't mean anything different at all (even though I'm not much of a fan of it). The Mexican seems to have uneccesarily created a second step to get to red, the single step to red (the yellow) is all you need, that is the purpose of the yellow, to tell drivers that the green is over and the light will be red, and to stop if you can.

Could someone explain BC's version of flashing green in the most simplistic way possible?  :)

I've noticed in KW that left turn signals use flashing green arrows, while right turn signals use solid green arrows. I've also noticed that going NB on Regina St at Bridgeport Rd in Waterloo, the left turn arrow completely lacks a yellow arrow. It goes from green arrow to nothing. Does the OTM Book 12 allow this, since it seems sketchy :confused:

Does the intersection you mention use split phasing, because if it does, the green ball and green arrow both end simultaneously and just a yellow ball appears.

It's not split phasing. Here's the intersection and signal in question (on Regina facing north):
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4677751,-80.5218775,3a,37.5y,341h,92.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smJs0SdtzZEabkNduglrW_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Bridgeport is a one-way street (going west), while Regina is two-way. For Regina St, the signal phasing is as follows:
1) for NB, green bulb and green left arrow
2) green bulb for both directions

Because Regina St is only two-lanes (one each way), the left turn signal is definitely needed since a single left turning vehicle is enough to block all the cars behind it. And of course, SB doesn't need any arrow since Bridgeport is one-way :)


jakeroot

Quote from: 7/8 on July 19, 2016, 08:23:43 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 19, 2016, 07:41:01 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on July 19, 2016, 06:18:59 PM
Could someone explain BC's version of flashing green in the most simplistic way possible?  :)

Flashing green orbs indicate signal heads that are pedestrian-controlled. If the signal is at an intersection, the intersecting street(s) have stop signs.

It's common to see driver's gun it (stop sign be-damned) when they see the pedestrian signal face displaying anything except a solid red hand, because they know cross-traffic is facing a red signal, and it may be a while until they have another chance to go. Vancouver's main arterial roads are chock full of flashing green orbs.

Okay, so would it be like this intersection in Waterloo (Albert St and Seagram Dr):
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4722513,-80.5300766,3a,37.5y,131.98h,89.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL3hPVQpxMHBE6kKN5Hz0-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Except while in Ontario we would use a solid green, in B.C. this would have a flashing green.

I've found these a bit confusing. When sitting at the red light facing north on Albert, it feels tempting to make the "left on red" if no cars are on Seagram since you wouldn't be passing through the crosswalk. But I'm not sure if this is allowed.

Yes, this signal would feature a flashing green orb in BC.

As for the left turn paradox, it's hard to say. Technically, the stop line is for the crosswalk. But if your maneuver doesn't take you over the crosswalk, I'm not certain that it counts as running the light. You do have to pass over the stop line to turn left, however. So I'd probably just sit and wait. But if you did turn left on red, and a cop stopped you, you might get off with a warning (simply explain to him that you thought the signal was for the crosswalk, not the side street -- not sure if that would work, but that's what I'd say).

BC gets around this issue by using two crosswalks, one for each side of the intersection. So to turn left, you'd have to cross one of the crosswalks.

7/8

Quote from: jakeroot on July 19, 2016, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on July 19, 2016, 08:23:43 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 19, 2016, 07:41:01 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on July 19, 2016, 06:18:59 PM
Could someone explain BC's version of flashing green in the most simplistic way possible?  :)

Flashing green orbs indicate signal heads that are pedestrian-controlled. If the signal is at an intersection, the intersecting street(s) have stop signs.

It's common to see driver's gun it (stop sign be-damned) when they see the pedestrian signal face displaying anything except a solid red hand, because they know cross-traffic is facing a red signal, and it may be a while until they have another chance to go. Vancouver's main arterial roads are chock full of flashing green orbs.

Okay, so would it be like this intersection in Waterloo (Albert St and Seagram Dr):
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4722513,-80.5300766,3a,37.5y,131.98h,89.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL3hPVQpxMHBE6kKN5Hz0-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Except while in Ontario we would use a solid green, in B.C. this would have a flashing green.

I've found these a bit confusing. When sitting at the red light facing north on Albert, it feels tempting to make the "left on red" if no cars are on Seagram since you wouldn't be passing through the crosswalk. But I'm not sure if this is allowed.

Yes, this signal would feature a flashing green orb in BC.

As for the left turn paradox, it's hard to say. Technically, the stop line is for the crosswalk. But if your maneuver doesn't take you over the crosswalk, I'm not certain that it counts as running the light. You do have to pass over the stop line to turn left, however. So I'd probably just sit and wait. But if you did turn left on red, and a cop stopped you, you might get off with a warning (simply explain to him that you thought the signal was for the crosswalk, not the side street -- not sure if that would work, but that's what I'd say).

BC gets around this issue by using two crosswalks, one for each side of the intersection. So to turn left, you'd have to cross one of the crosswalks.

That's a good idea. Or they could put a sign saying either left on red allowed or no left on red. I don't remember my driving school explaining this scenario either.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.