MassPike AET discussion

[Pete from Boston]

Really?  Supermarkets and convenience stores no longer put price tags on individual items - Massachusetts was the last state to drop that requirement, because the lobby representing the supermarkets and convenience stores asked for it.

Really.  Supermarkets label the shelf.  The price is not invisible like it is to E-ZPass users at many toll facilities. 

And the toll road scenario is much more akin to having no price and no display on the register, only a card swipe with a cashier saying "Oh, just go online, there's a series of drop-down menus there with prices, or you can just check your statement."

[jeffandnicole]

Many bars and restaurants don't list beer and drink prices on their menus.

It's virtually impossible to list electronic toll pricing. Most non-regular motorists on a turnpike toll ticket highway didn't understand toll ticket pricing anyway, and when they exit they just hand the ticket to the toll worker to find out how much they have to pay.

[Pete from Boston]

I'll defer to your experience about consumer interest/understanding, but as for "virtually impossible," this is the kind of language that was used regarding AET in Mass. 7 or 8 years ago.  It's all a matter of where technology, economics, and political will come together.

When transponders become embedded in cars–if the technology doesn't leapfrog that step–there is no reason it couldn't be made a requirement that the toll be displayed on screen. 

What it comes down to for me is that toll increases can go from one hard-to-conceive high price to a hard-to-conceive higher price without much notice. 

[jeffandnicole]

I'll defer to your experience about consumer interest/understanding, but as for "virtually impossible," this is the kind of language that was used regarding AET in Mass. 7 or 8 years ago.  It's all a matter of where technology, economics, and political will come together.

When transponders become embedded in cars–if the technology doesn't leapfrog that step–there is no reason it couldn't be made a requirement that the toll be displayed on screen. 

What it comes down to for me is that toll increases can go from one hard-to-conceive high price to a hard-to-conceive higher price without much notice. 

Unless the vehicle knows in advance where you're going to exit, it will only give you the price after-the-fact anyway.

And if driverless cars become the norm, the next complaint will be cars are driving the long way on toll roads just to rack up higher payments.  Again, based on experience, human drivers tend to do that themselves without even realizing it.

[kalvado]

I'll defer to your experience about consumer interest/understanding, but as for "virtually impossible," this is the kind of language that was used regarding AET in Mass. 7 or 8 years ago.  It's all a matter of where technology, economics, and political will come together.

When transponders become embedded in cars–if the technology doesn't leapfrog that step–there is no reason it couldn't be made a requirement that the toll be displayed on screen. 

What it comes down to for me is that toll increases can go from one hard-to-conceive high price to a hard-to-conceive higher price without much notice. 

Unless the vehicle knows in advance where you're going to exit, it will only give you the price after-the-fact anyway.

And if driverless cars become the norm, the next complaint will be cars are driving the long way on toll roads just to rack up higher payments.  Again, based on experience, human drivers tend to do that themselves without even realizing it.

If we're talking about fixed-price gantries like those installed on MassPike, then type of passing vehicle is the only unknown.
I can think of next-gen ezpass being interactive and displaying some information. Would require a bit more battery, though. In a world of cell phones requiring daily recharge that wouldn't be a super-issue.. However, stickers are the new norm, and making them interactive is more difficult.

[KEVIN_224]

http://fox61.com/2016/10/27/big-changes-on-the-mass-pike-everything-you-need-to-know/

There was this piece aired on Saturday morning via WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford. The reporter alluded to Sturbridge, but the toll plaza shown in the piece is clearly Exit 8 (MA Route 32) in Palmer.

[vdeane]

The Pennsylvania Turnpike doesn't list their prices any more on their tickets.  They got tired of printing new ones with each annual toll increase.  The Thruway also no longer prints out separate tickets for each vehicle class, so all the tickets have the prices for class 2L and not for trucks/busses/trailers.

[lordsutch]

There's certainly no reason why any toll system that is based solely on per-gantry tolling (i.e. without tracking entrances and exits with a virtual "ticket") can't post toll rates on a sign by or before the gantry. TxDOT posts the applicable rates for several vehicle classes on TX 45 Southeast, for example.

[cl94]

There's certainly no reason why any toll system that is based solely on per-gantry tolling (i.e. without tracking entrances and exits with a virtual "ticket") can't post toll rates on a sign by or before the gantry. TxDOT posts the applicable rates for several vehicle classes on TX 45 Southeast, for example.

I was going to mention Texas. Really not that hard to post signs before each gantry unless the fare structure is really convoluted and even then most vehicles fall in one of three categories (passenger, 3 axle box truck/bus, 5 axle semi).

[Snappyjack]

Pretty much all of the tolled express lane setups I have come across feature pricing on signs. I am aware that those rates can sometimes change due to congestion or other factors, but it doesn't seem like that would be too hard to implement in this case.

[Pete from Boston]

Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.  All signage on the booths had black covering over them.  The BYSes saying "TOLL PLAZA AHEAD" have been edited to read "PLAZA AHEAD."  "Pay by plate" signs are all unfurled. 

Brave new world!

[cl94]

Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.

That was fast.

[Pete from Boston]

Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.

That was fast.

Right?  This and Allston are the big bottlenecks so they must be getting the immediate attention.  I saw lights and trucks at other toll plazas but none were in such accelerated progress.

[Pete from Boston]

MassDOT on social media shows large portion of Sturbridge down Sunday night, and some (or all) of West Stockbridge.

[spooky]

Well, at 5:00 this morning the center of the Weston tolls was already demolished.

That was fast.

That was fast. I went through Saturday evening around 7 PM and they had barrier in place, but the booths were still standing and no work was actively going on.

The VSWS (very small white sign) posted at the gantry on the Pike WB between the former Weston tolls and the MA 30 exit says 25 cents for MA EZ-Pass, 35 cents for other EZ-Pass, and 60 cents for pay by plate.

[kefkafloyd]

Taking down the canopies / booths themselves is probably the easy part, it's the demoltion/refilling of the underground tunnels that will take a little bit since there's probably some hazardous materials down there.

[spooky]

Taking down the canopies / booths themselves is probably the easy part, it's the demoltion/refilling of the underground tunnels that will take a little bit since there's probably some hazardous materials down there.

True. I was also thinking they are almost certainly using concrete in some capacity and it takes time to cure before live traffic goes over it.

[cl94]

There's almost definitely asbestos in there, but most of the filling is probably backfill.

[Pete from Boston]

MassDOT flyover of Allston.  Mainline booths seem to be gone.

https://instagram.com/p/BMO33THlwfF/

[roadman]

MassDOT flyover of Allston.  Mainline booths seem to be gone.

https://instagram.com/p/BMO33THlwfF/

The middle booths and canopies are gone, but the dividers are still in place.

[bob7374]

MassDOT flyover of Allston.  Mainline booths seem to be gone.

https://instagram.com/p/BMO33THlwfF/

The middle booths and canopies are gone, but the dividers are still in place.

The center booths for the ramps to and from I-95/128 were gone by noon yesterday. Here's a view passing through about that time from I-90 East:


In addition to the toll plaza demolition, new signage has gone up at entrance ramps indicating payment is either by E-ZPass or Pay by Plate, here's the sign if accessing the Pike Eastbound from MA 30:


Other images of demolition progress and new signage can be found on my I-90 in Mass. Photo Page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/i90photos.html#aet

[Beeper1]

The booths and canopies at West Stockbridge and Millbury (Exit 11) are totally gone.   As are the ones at Natick and Framingham.

[bob7374]

Here's the latest from MassDOT regarding the demolition project and number of transactions since electronic tolling was activated on Friday:
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/toll-demolition-proceeding-as-scheduled/

It includes a paragraph explaining why stopping at a toll booth now is 'strongly discouraged.'

[Pete from Boston]

I passed through earlier this morning and Sturbridge is completely gone above ground except for the concrete lane dividers on the outer six lanes. The tunnel in the center section has been excavated back to bare earth.

At the Weston to/from 128 plaza, the outer booths remain, but the center section is already both demoed and repaved!  I get the feeling there was not a lot of remediation necessary in those tunnels after all.

[jstc15]

Traffic at the Weston toll plaza has been shifted onto the newly repaved center section as of 6:30 AM today.