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Author Topic: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)  (Read 134941 times)

Alps

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1125 on: February 18, 2019, 06:24:56 PM »

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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1126 on: April 10, 2019, 08:58:25 AM »

Actually the bigger point will be the CSX inter-modal, or inland port that will be built in Rocky Mount.  Despite the less distance to US 58, the amount of traffic alone on 95 negates the practicality of such a route, plus that traffic relief is even more far off than I-87 getting built, 95 widening is starting in the south and rebuilding the Roanoke River bridges to larger facilities is going to be costly.  Also having a secondary or tertiary hurricane evacuation route for such a largely populated area is even more logical.
Where exactly in Rocky Mount is that being planned? Do you have a link to something providing more information?

If you’re still interested, the groundbreaking ceremony is set for April 24.

http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/News/2019/04/10/CSX-set-to-begin-work-on-new-rail-terminal.html
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1127 on: April 26, 2019, 08:48:37 PM »

Second megasite proposed along the I-87 / US-17 corridor. The other proposed one is in Chesapeake, VA just north of the Virginia - North Carolina border.

Two things this has going for it that Chesapeake's doesn't, however, is that there are railroad tracks just south of the site, which connect into Virginia via Moyock. Could become another major freight line in the long-term future heading towards the Port of Norfolk is this megasite is indeed constructed. Another thing is that the infrastructure is more in place here than with Chesapeake's. Interchange access is already constructed with I-87 / US-17, good connections into Elizabeth City itself, and the is already a retail / developed area at that interchange, and new housing going in. This, combined with the proposed Chesapeake site could potentially bring an increase in truck traffic heading down the I-87 / US-17 corridor having two megasites, then connecting to other destinations west of Elizabeth City and to I-95.

Quote
Pasquotank County officials have begun pursuing a “Tanglewood Megasite” next to the U.S. 17 Bypass near Halstead Boulevard Extended.

What is the Tanglewood Megasite? How does it become a reality and when? And why would it be game-changing for the community?

Christian Lockamy, director of the Elizabeth City-Pasquotank Economic Development Commission, and other county officials delved into those questions in a series of interviews last week.

According to Lockamy, industrial megasites, such as in Kingsboro, are typically 1,000 acres or more and “can be used to locate a large, advanced manufacturer along with their suppliers and distributors.”

Pasquotank County has several industrial parks, including the Commerce Park north of Elizabeth City and the joint city-county industrial park off Weeksville Road, but no megasite. To offer a massive amount of land primed for development could draw a transformative employer or employers to the area, county officials said.

“That's a potential game-changer,” County Manager Sparty Hammett said Thursday.

The site could draw the kinds of employers that grow a community through an increased workforce and high wages — increasing the community’s wealth and not just recirculating it, he explained.

Why the Tanglewood area?

According to Lockamy, the Tanglewood area is eyed for the megasite because it’s uniquely large, well-situated, and ideal for development.

Tanglewood offers 5,000 acres or more for a potential megasite, Lockamy wrote in an email, and the area was selected in large part because it's next to railroad tracks to south and, a four-lane transportation corridor tapped as a future interstate to the east. The county has also long eyed the land for industrial development, he noted.

“Moving that site somewhere else and having the same attractive offering to an industrial end-user would be near impossible,” Lockamy said.

So how does the county turn that 5,000 acres, much of it farmland, into a megasite?

The county is looking at a private-public partnership with the area's multiple property owners, Lockamy said. The county also doesn't need all, or even most of that acreage, to create an attractive industrial offering, he explained. Depending on layout and acreage, it could be a “stand-alone site, industrial park, or a megasite if enough acreage is assembled,” he said.

With owners' agreement, the county would pursue what is known as “site certification” and promote the site for industrial development, Lockamy continued.

He stressed the talks with property owners are in early, sensitive stages, and declined to identify them.

A public-private partnership

What the partnership would look like has yet to be determined, but Lockamy acknowledged such partnerships sometimes require infrastructure investment.

“These type of public-private partnerships are structured in different ways,” he said. “Trying to figure out ahead of time how this will look is premature and could jeopardize the project.”

He said the goal of a public-private partnership is “to limit risk to the local government” involved, and “that does generally mean that the local government puts its money in infrastructure improvements instead of acquisition costs.”

Hammett similarly said the county is not looking to buy land, but to help elevate it for purchase by industries.

Lockamy said if the county and landowners do agree to a partnership, the county would expect a commitment from them to sell the land for industrial use. “There would be protections for both the county and landowners in a partnership agreement,” he said.

If the Tanglewood land is so attractive, one might wonder why the county needs to help landowners sell it. According to Lockamy, assembling and certifying industrial sites as 'shovel-ready' without local government's help can be “almost impossible without a lot of upfront investment by the landowners.”

“Unfortunately, industrial development in North Carolina and many other states cannot flourish without the public's involvement,” he said.

Hammett noted there's been industrial interest in the property in years past, but nothing materialized.

“You've got to make it easy” for industries to locate in a community, Hammett said.

Megasite a county goal

Pursuing megasite development is one of county commissioners' new, official goals, and commissioners generally endorsed the effort in phone interviews.

Board of Commissioners Chairman Jeff Dixon said a certified megasite would put Pasquotank “in a higher bracket” for industrial recruitment. He also said certifying the site for industrial use would help “protect” it from other uses with less economic benefit. He cited a large-scale solar farm proposed there last year as one example.

Dixon also noted that the name, Tanglewood Megasite, is only a working name, and it could change.

Board Vice Chairman Lloyd Griffin said the county had considered the area for industry some 15 years ago, around when the U.S. 17 Bypass was built. There was even a company interested in a 1,500-acre-plus facility there, but the idea proved to be “pie in the sky,” he said.

Griffin also said the site already had infrastructure in place — which would greatly minimize costs of site certification.

Griffin also praised Lockamy for pursuing the initiative, saying he was trying to help the county “get ahead of the curve” and better compete with other communities.

Commissioner Charles Jordan similarly praised the initiative's potential to spur growth. Asked if the effort would carry significant costs or liabilities for the county, Jordan said he didn't think so, but county staff will study that.

‘A voluntary project’

Commissioner Frankie Meads supported the initiative as well, but also stressed he wanted megasite development to be a “voluntary project.”

“The landowners will make the decision,” Meads said, adding the county should not dictate how people use their land. He also noted that some of megasite acreage includes valuable, high-quality farmland.

Meads also said that, for Pasquotank to successfully recruit a major industry, it needs to do more than certify a megasite. It also needs to better develop its workforce, he said.

He explained that he and other local employers sometimes struggle to find qualified people for even basic jobs, let alone advanced industry.

Commissioner Sean Lavin strongly supported Tanglewood Megasite development, and praised Lockamy as doing a “great job” and working to limit risk to the county.

Lavin also agreed the Tanglewood acreage was “prime” for industrial development. It offers great connectivity to “every transportation option,” he said. In addition to railroad and future interstate access, it's also a short drive to the Elizabeth City Regional Airport and within an hour of the Port of Virginia, he noted.

Lavin also strongly supports the county focusing its economic development efforts on major industry. Major industries grow a community and increase wages in ways that common, smaller businesses can't, he said.

“We've tired of taking Mickey Mouse steps” to grow the economy, he said.

Commissioners Cecil Perry and Barry Overman could not be reached for comment for this story.
http://www.dailyadvance.com/News/2019/04/07/Pasquotank-to-pursue-Tanglewood-megasite.html
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 08:55:57 PM by sprjus4 »
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1128 on: April 26, 2019, 11:25:48 PM »

Rah, rah, rah, economic boosterism.  Rah, rah, rah.  Typical local politicians.

Have fun trying to develop 8 square miles of land.
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1129 on: April 26, 2019, 11:54:59 PM »

Rah, rah, rah, economic boosterism.  Rah, rah, rah.  Typical local politicians.

Have fun trying to develop 8 square miles of land.
I'll check back in 2040. Maybe something will be done then... maybe  :hmmm:
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1130 on: May 10, 2019, 10:38:28 AM »

Beginning next week, the exit numbers on the Knightdale Bypass will be changing to I-87 exit numbers. Work is scheduled to be complete by the end of July. The new exit numbers are listed in the press release.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-05-10-exit-number-changes-i-87.aspx
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 10:56:41 AM by LM117 »
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Mr. ENC

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1131 on: May 10, 2019, 02:13:22 PM »

Beginning next week, the exit numbers on the Knightdale Bypass will be changing to I-87 exit numbers. Work is scheduled to be complete by the end of July. The new exit numbers are listed in the press release.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-05-10-exit-number-changes-i-87.aspx

My problem with this is why didn't they just put I-87 on 440 and end the highway near Cary (or wherever US1/US64 no longer meet Interstate Standards)? It could have been a legitimate push to get this highway running to Columbia SC.
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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1132 on: May 10, 2019, 05:07:19 PM »

Beginning next week, the exit numbers on the Knightdale Bypass will be changing to I-87 exit numbers. Work is scheduled to be complete by the end of July. The new exit numbers are listed in the press release.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-05-10-exit-number-changes-i-87.aspx

My problem with this is why didn't they just put I-87 on 440 and end the highway near Cary (or wherever US1/US64 no longer meet Interstate Standards)? It could have been a legitimate push to get this highway running to Columbia SC.

Because there’s no local push to extend I-87 along US-1 and even if I-87 does go south of Raleigh, it would end in Rockingham since South Carolina is broke. They can’t even get I-73 started. Hell, they can barely maintain what they have.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 05:10:06 PM by LM117 »
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1133 on: May 10, 2019, 05:08:21 PM »

Beginning next week, the exit numbers on the Knightdale Bypass will be changing to I-87 exit numbers. Work is scheduled to be complete by the end of July. The new exit numbers are listed in the press release.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-05-10-exit-number-changes-i-87.aspx

My problem with this is why didn't they just put I-87 on 440 and end the highway near Cary (or wherever US1/US64 no longer meet Interstate Standards)? It could have been a legitimate push to get this highway running to Columbia SC.

Because there’s no local push to extend I-87 along US-1 and even if I-87 does go south of Raleigh, it would end in Rockingham since South Carolina is broke. They can’t even get I-73 started.

Note that they probably should have used mile markers if they were going to list all of them instead of just the exit numbers for the interchanges...
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1134 on: May 10, 2019, 05:35:05 PM »

Note that they probably should have used mile markers if they were going to list all of them instead of just the exit numbers for the interchanges...
They will probably change the mile markers as well on the highway. They aren't going to list them in the press release though because for drivers who use the highway and will be impacted by the change, that's the least of their concern.
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1135 on: May 10, 2019, 05:37:23 PM »

Beginning next week, the exit numbers on the Knightdale Bypass will be changing to I-87 exit numbers. Work is scheduled to be complete by the end of July. The new exit numbers are listed in the press release.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-05-10-exit-number-changes-i-87.aspx
It still bugs me they are ending I-87 at I-40 and having that dumb overlap, instead of either A) decommissioning that wrong-way segment of I-440 or B) ending I-87 at I-440.

But hey, nice to see this getting done. The next segment that will be upgraded to interstates will be the segment between Knightdale and US-264 in Zebulon in about 5 years or so, because when that's widened to 6 lanes, it will also be reconstructed to proper 6-lane interstate highway standards.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1136 on: May 10, 2019, 07:17:32 PM »

Beginning next week, the exit numbers on the Knightdale Bypass will be changing to I-87 exit numbers. Work is scheduled to be complete by the end of July. The new exit numbers are listed in the press release.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-05-10-exit-number-changes-i-87.aspx
It still bugs me they are ending I-87 at I-40 and having that dumb overlap, instead of either A) decommissioning that wrong-way segment of I-440 or B) ending I-87 at I-440.

Same here. If it was good enough for I-495 to end at I-440, then there’s no reason not to the same with I-87. NCDOT actually considered decommissioning that stretch of I-440, but obviously they chose not to for whatever reason.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1137 on: May 10, 2019, 07:53:43 PM »

Note that they probably should have used mile markers if they were going to list all of them instead of just the exit numbers for the interchanges...
They will probably change the mile markers as well on the highway. They aren't going to list them in the press release though because for drivers who use the highway and will be impacted by the change, that's the least of their concern.

I was attempting to critique the use of exit numbers on the press release when they included all the mile markers.  I presume that both are being changed.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1138 on: May 10, 2019, 09:57:32 PM »

Beginning next week, the exit numbers on the Knightdale Bypass will be changing to I-87 exit numbers. Work is scheduled to be complete by the end of July. The new exit numbers are listed in the press release.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-05-10-exit-number-changes-i-87.aspx
It still bugs me they are ending I-87 at I-40 and having that dumb overlap, instead of either A) decommissioning that wrong-way segment of I-440 or B) ending I-87 at I-440.

Same here. If it was good enough for I-495 to end at I-440, then there’s no reason not to the same with I-87. NCDOT actually considered decommissioning that stretch of I-440, but obviously they chose not to for whatever reason.
I-495 was a 3di.  I-87 is a 2di.  I do agree that the overlap is dumb though.  I-440 should be truncated.
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1139 on: May 10, 2019, 10:05:19 PM »

I-495 was a 3di.  I-87 is a 2di.  I do agree that the overlap is dumb though.  I-440 should be truncated.
Agreed, or at minimum, I-87's exit numbers and mile markers should take over I-440 if it's retained. I-440 is a 3-d, I-87 is a 2-d, therefore I-87 should have higher priority.

The I-840 / I-73 overlap in Greensboro favors I-73 numbers and mile markers, not I-840.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1140 on: May 11, 2019, 10:39:20 AM »

I-495 was a 3di.  I-87 is a 2di.  I do agree that the overlap is dumb though.  I-440 should be truncated.
Agreed, or at minimum, I-87's exit numbers and mile markers should take over I-440 if it's retained. I-440 is a 3-d, I-87 is a 2-d, therefore I-87 should have higher priority.

The I-840 / I-73 overlap in Greensboro favors I-73 numbers and mile markers, not I-840.
Normally, I would agree with the policy of exit numbers favoring the 2di in a 2di/3di concurrency, but in this case that would result in I-440 having the same exit numbers (1 and 2) on both ends which could be confusing. Now, if I-440 is removed from this stretch, that's another story.

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1141 on: May 11, 2019, 04:38:07 PM »

Have the numbers past Exit 14 (old exit 430) changed at all, or will they stay the same until those portions are officially part of Interstate 87?
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1142 on: May 11, 2019, 05:25:26 PM »

Have the numbers past Exit 14 (old exit 430) changed at all, or will they stay the same until those portions are officially part of Interstate 87?
Well currently, no numbers at all have been changed. By July, they'll be changed to existing Exit 430, new Exit 14.

But to answer your question, nothing east of Exit 14 (Exit 430) will be changed until those segments become I-87. In about five years, 7 miles of US-64 will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes to the US-264 (Future I-587) split. When that segment is widened, it will also be reconstructed to 6-lane interstate standards, and presumably become I-87. That would extend the exit numbers and mile markers to that point. Anything beyond that is unknown, but the majority of the highway to I-95 will simply need widened shoulders. The segment around Nashville would need full reconstruction, new bridges, and likely a jersey barrier to replace the narrow substandard median.

In my opinion, the focus should be more towards upgrading the arterial segments of US-17 to interstate standards, then once the full freeway is created in the corridor, upgrade the older freeways to modern interstate standards with shoulders, etc. US-64 and the existing US-17 freeway bypasses should be the last pieces to completed of I-87 IMO.

Edit - When I say US-64 should be the last piece, I'm not referring to the 6-lane widening upcoming. That's definitely needed. I was referring to upgrading the rural existing 4-lane segments to interstate standards that would still be 4-lanes.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 05:32:24 PM by sprjus4 »
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1143 on: May 11, 2019, 10:38:18 PM »

Have the numbers past Exit 14 (old exit 430) changed at all, or will they stay the same until those portions are officially part of Interstate 87?
Well currently, no numbers at all have been changed. By July, they'll be changed to existing Exit 430, new Exit 14.

But to answer your question, nothing east of Exit 14 (Exit 430) will be changed until those segments become I-87. In about five years, 7 miles of US-64 will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes to the US-264 (Future I-587) split. When that segment is widened, it will also be reconstructed to 6-lane interstate standards, and presumably become I-87. That would extend the exit numbers and mile markers to that point. Anything beyond that is unknown, but the majority of the highway to I-95 will simply need widened shoulders. The segment around Nashville would need full reconstruction, new bridges, and likely a jersey barrier to replace the narrow substandard median.

In my opinion, the focus should be more towards upgrading the arterial segments of US-17 to interstate standards, then once the full freeway is created in the corridor, upgrade the older freeways to modern interstate standards with shoulders, etc. US-64 and the existing US-17 freeway bypasses should be the last pieces to completed of I-87 IMO.

Edit - When I say US-64 should be the last piece, I'm not referring to the 6-lane widening upcoming. That's definitely needed. I was referring to upgrading the rural existing 4-lane segments to interstate standards that would still be 4-lanes.
I agree this is probably what's going to happen. The alternative would be what was done along US 74 in 2012 when all the exits east of I-95 were given I-74 mileage based numbers and I-74 mileposts were placed along US 74 as far as Delco (which lended support to the idea of the eventual route's end being switched to Wilmington). All new US 74 exits built since then have also been given I-74 numbers. Perhaps it would be something to consider if sections east of I-95 are completed first so not to have exit numbers change twice for someone traveling the corridor from Raleigh to Williamston.

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1144 on: May 11, 2019, 11:21:20 PM »

The alternative would be what was done along US 74 in 2012 when all the exits east of I-95 were given I-74 mileage based numbers and I-74 mileposts were placed along US 74 as far as Delco (which lended support to the idea of the eventual route's end being switched to Wilmington). All new US 74 exits built since then have also been given I-74 numbers. Perhaps it would be something to consider if sections east of I-95 are completed first so not to have exit numbers change twice for someone traveling the corridor from Raleigh to Williamston.
That's interesting, I've always just thought that was US-74 exit numbers. It appears they start as far west as on the Laurinburg Bypass. That's where the continuous freeway to east of I-95 begins, though I-74 isn't signed until it gets east of Maxton.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1145 on: May 12, 2019, 08:46:56 PM »

The alternative would be what was done along US 74 in 2012 when all the exits east of I-95 were given I-74 mileage based numbers and I-74 mileposts were placed along US 74 as far as Delco (which lended support to the idea of the eventual route's end being switched to Wilmington). All new US 74 exits built since then have also been given I-74 numbers. Perhaps it would be something to consider if sections east of I-95 are completed first so not to have exit numbers change twice for someone traveling the corridor from Raleigh to Williamston.
That's interesting, I've always just thought that was US-74 exit numbers. It appears they start as far west as on the Laurinburg Bypass. That's where the continuous freeway to east of I-95 begins, though I-74 isn't signed until it gets east of Maxton.
That's somewhat of a different story. Those exit numbers went up as part of the extension of I-74 along the Bypass when the section from Lumberton to Alma was completed. The FHWA complained the section was not up to interstate standards and NCDOT removed the shields about a year later. NCDOT probably figured it was easier just to leave the exit numbers up since the Bypass will be eventually be upgraded and I-74 re-established along the route. NCDOT has kept the original US 74 exit numbers along the Rockingham Bypass, though most of those will change to I-73 numbers when the western bypass is completed around 2023.

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1146 on: May 12, 2019, 10:16:33 PM »

Those exit numbers went up as part of the extension of I-74 along the Bypass when the section from Lumberton to Alma was completed. The FHWA complained the section was not up to interstate standards and NCDOT removed the shields about a year later.
Geesh, what's up with NCDOT constantly violating interstate standards? A segment of I-73 / I-74 south of Asheboro still has 4 foot right shoulders! Nobody's complained about that yet.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1147 on: May 12, 2019, 11:19:14 PM »

Those exit numbers went up as part of the extension of I-74 along the Bypass when the section from Lumberton to Alma was completed. The FHWA complained the section was not up to interstate standards and NCDOT removed the shields about a year later.
Geesh, what's up with NCDOT constantly violating interstate standards? A segment of I-73 / I-74 south of Asheboro still has 4 foot right shoulders! Nobody's complained about that yet.

There has been plenty of discussion about that segment here and on other online forums, and other segments, where THSDOT has posted Interstate signs on substandard highways that don't meet Interstate highway standards.  PFTC.
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1148 on: May 12, 2019, 11:39:28 PM »

There has been plenty of discussion about that segment here and on other online forums, and other segments, where THSDOT has posted Interstate signs on substandard highways that don't meet Interstate highway standards.  PFTC.
Based on other discussions on here, I think you're thinking of that heavily discussed segment through the center of Asheboro, with the left exit and the link you cited stating a $400 million overhaul is needed.

That segment does have 10 foot paved shoulders nonetheless.

I'm referring to a segment south of Asheboro, that was built as a US-220 relocation the 70s with only 4 foot right and left shoulders. It's a rural segment, not an urban segment like through Asheboro. That segment can easily have shoulders widened to 10 foot to meet standards.

I can't think of instances other than the few discussed on I-73 / I-74 where NCDOT has signed a substandard highway as an interstate. All of the signed interstates throughout the state, with the I-73 / I-74 segment being the exception, meet full interstate highway standards.

Are you aware of any that don't that I'm missing?
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Beltway

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #1149 on: May 13, 2019, 12:54:32 AM »

Are you aware of any that don't that I'm missing?

I haven't driven every highway segment so I can't say.  But the fact that there are a "few discussed on I-73 / I-74" just by itself makes me wonder how many other places there are.
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