California

[Plutonic Panda]

This is a silly idea that would cost extra money but is it possible to build an arch and add a non load bearing design element recreating the current bridge?

So about the cost of that... if the town is so set on keeping it I wonder if they'd be willing to raise their taxes to contribute to it and the maintenance. 

[kkt]

I trust Caltrans would not build a new structure in which the wood is treated with arsenic that leaches into the environment.

A handsome arch would be fine.

[Max Rockatansky]

I trust Caltrans would not build a new structure in which the wood is treated with arsenic that leaches into the environment.

A handsome arch would be fine.

Some of the new bridges in Big Sur (Pfeiffer Canyon) are completely hideous and don't match the environment. 

[kkt]

A bit plain.  I wouldn't call it hideous.  I'd rather have a big arch.

[Max Rockatansky]

A bit plain.  I wouldn't call it hideous.  I'd rather have a big arch.

Granted that specific example is a rush job and pretty much just the typical Caltrans stock aesthetic design.  Some of the new bridges between Rocky Point and San Simeon look far better by comparison.  Either way the look of the original concrete arch bridges is something I've yet to see Caltrans really even come close to matching during modern times.  I know the budget for it really doesn't exist but I really wish that Caltrans could take aesthetics into account like they used to and how other agencies like ADOT do today. 

[skluth]

Here's the story on the Pfeiffer Canyon Bridge replacement. Max is right when he says it was a rush job.

[Max Rockatansky]

Here's the story on the Pfeiffer Canyon Bridge replacement. Max is right when he says it was a rush job.

I think that I have a photo of the original bridge somewhere in one of my articles.  If I remember right the new bridge is the third structure at Pfeiffer Canyon. 

[roadwaywiz95]

Our next installment in the *weekly* live broadcast over on 'roadwaywiz' will be this double-header Virtual Tour presentation, where we dissect and enjoy a full-length trip along the belt highway encircling Phoenix, AZ and the infamous 405 Freeway around Los Angeles in real time, complete with commentary and contributions from admins/moderators/members of this forum.

The event will kick off on Saturday (5/16) at 6 PM ET and we look forward to seeing you there!

[Max Rockatansky]

Our next installment in the *weekly* live broadcast over on 'roadwaywiz' will be this double-header Virtual Tour presentation, where we dissect and enjoy a full-length trip along the belt highway encircling Phoenix, AZ and the infamous 405 Freeway around Los Angeles in real time, complete with commentary and contributions from admins/moderators/members of this forum.

The event will kick off on Saturday (5/16) at 6 PM ET and we look forward to seeing you there!

Barring unforeseen circumstances I'll one of the forum members on there.  Maybe I'll even bring up the crazy legacy of CA 7 and Sepulveda Pass...definitely the Photo Radar Wars of Loop 101 in Scottsdale. 

[Roadgeekteen]

California highways and road signs for some reason just look different from the ones used elsewhere. Like the caltrans signs have a distinctive look to them.

[Max Rockatansky]

California highways and road signs for some reason just look different from the ones used elsewhere. Like the caltrans signs have a distinctive look to them.

They are often different, the highway shields definitely are.  Almost all the older signage comes from the 1960s-1970s and is far from removed from current MUTCD.  For someone like me who likes cool signs (button copy and reflective painted shields) and doesn't give a crap about MUTCD it is often quite the boon for photo opportunities. 

[kkt]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

[Max Rockatansky]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

The California variant of the US Route Shield is one of the best looking highway shields out there.   It's clean looking but still kind of ornate with the cool border and "US"  in the crown.  The worst thing that ever happened to highway shields was putting them on square blanks. 

[Roadgeekteen]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

The California variant of the US Route Shield is one of the best looking highway shields out there.   It's clean looking but still kind of ornate with the cool border and "US"  in the crown.  The worst thing that ever happened to highway shields was putting them on square blanks.

It's a shame that California accomplished so many US highways, the shield would look sick on CA 99.

[Max Rockatansky]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

The California variant of the US Route Shield is one of the best looking highway shields out there.   It's clean looking but still kind of ornate with the cool border and "US"  in the crown.  The worst thing that ever happened to highway shields was putting them on square blanks.

It's a shame that California accomplished so many US highways, the shield would look sick on CA 99.

Yes, even the guide style shield looks pretty good:

https://flic.kr/p/2h41ukQ

[nexus73]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

The California variant of the US Route Shield is one of the best looking highway shields out there.   It’s clean looking but still kind of ornate with the cool border and “US” in the crown.  The worst thing that ever happened to highway shields was putting them on square blanks. 

Do I ever agree with that sentiment!  It would be nice to see Oregon return to the shield style for their US and state routes. 

Rick

[sparker]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

The California variant of the US Route Shield is one of the best looking highway shields out there.   It's clean looking but still kind of ornate with the cool border and "US"  in the crown.  The worst thing that ever happened to highway shields was putting them on square blanks. 

That design dates from 1953, when a lot of the old smaller "divided" shields (state name above the line) started becoming the worse for wear.  Early ones had whiter-than-white enamel and button copy numbers; those were amazing-looking -- but quickly seemed to get rusty around the sides and thus didn't have much field longevity.  The large state shields, keeping the very white format, were introduced about 1954-55 for much the same reason -- but with the same issues.   The current reflectorized series started showing up about 1960 along with the state "spade" equivalents; but for some reason (likely the reflective sheeting of the day) looked somewhat beige rather than white.  That design has remained consistent for 60 years, although fonts, kerning, and other details have varied.  Of course, the state shields went in another direction in 1964 with the white-on-green scheme; while the "official" reason for that choice was stated at the time as visibility, one of the principal reasons for it was so BGS's on Interstate highways, which were required to show all routes as per their shield format/color, wouldn't have to be changed en masse (although replacement and new BGS's fabricated from 1961 to 1963 were actually displaying the white state shields). 

Having grown up with cutout shields, my various ventures north and east have invariably brought a tinge of pity for those states with cookie-cutter square signs containing "shields" -- particularly square or circular types (although the economist in me understands the rationale there).  Back around 2004 I cringed in horror when I saw, at the corner of Foothill Blvd. and Euclid Ave. in Upland (where my bank was located at the time) black square signs indicating the junction of CA 66 (those shields being themselves a rarity) and CA 83 -- with the shields printed/painted on the signs.  Fortunately, that lapse of judgment on the part of D8 hasn't been repeated (IIRC, that signage was gone by 2012).     

[jakeroot]

One thing I've noticed about Californian signs is their heavier usage of alternative versions of the standard Highway Gothic typeface. For example, their freeway entrance signs utilize FHWA Series D Modified (aka D(M)) rather than the standard Series D; Caltrans' variation has a wider spacing. They also seem to use Series D or E where other states might use Series C, such as on some regulatory signs. The "LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN" signs tend to have a wider "YIELD" than typical.

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

Although California tends to use slightly different versions of almost every standard sign, it's never bothered me because A) they're ridiculously consistent when it comes to the usage of their personal variant, and B) the California variant, to me, just looks better and is easier to read. They're usually bigger and far more often utilize modified Series D or E which I think look better than unmodified variants.

California, alongside Washington State (IIRC) was either the first or one of the first to dump all-caps legends in favor of mixed-case legends (at least for destinations), and you can see mixed-case legends on many of their smaller ground-mounted signs such as county signs, where many other places might use all-caps.

[roadfro]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

The California variant of the US Route Shield is one of the best looking highway shields out there.   It's clean looking but still kind of ornate with the cool border and "US"  in the crown.  The worst thing that ever happened to highway shields was putting them on square blanks.

It's a shame that California accomplished so many US highways, the shield would look sick on CA 99.

Yes, even the guide style shield looks pretty good:

https://flic.kr/p/2h41ukQ

To be fair, the linked photo is not a Caltrans standard US shield for a guide sign. If it weren't for the fact that you can see the seam of the whole sign cutting through that shield, I would have thought that that was a US shield cutout bolted to the overall sign.

The BGS versions of US shields usually don't have the "US" in the shield, and it has only been the more recent BGS installs/replacements that include an inset black border on the US shield. (At least, this has been my casual observation--you certainly travel through California way more than I do.) I do really like the more recent BGS US shields with the inset borders though, as it is a closer match to their cutout counterparts.

[Max Rockatansky]

I know, when I return home suddenly the road signs suddenly look more "right".
Part of it's the cutout shields.

The California variant of the US Route Shield is one of the best looking highway shields out there.   It's clean looking but still kind of ornate with the cool border and "US"  in the crown.  The worst thing that ever happened to highway shields was putting them on square blanks.

It's a shame that California accomplished so many US highways, the shield would look sick on CA 99.

Yes, even the guide style shield looks pretty good:

https://flic.kr/p/2h41ukQ

To be fair, the linked photo is not a Caltrans standard US shield for a guide sign. If it weren't for the fact that you can see the seam of the whole sign cutting through that shield, I would have thought that that was a US shield cutout bolted to the overall sign.

The BGS versions of US shields usually don't have the "US" in the shield, and it has only been the more recent BGS installs/replacements that include an inset black border on the US shield. (At least, this has been my casual observation--you certainly travel through California way more than I do.) I do really like the more recent BGS US shields with the inset borders though, as it is a closer match to their cutout counterparts.

Heh...yes that's at Fresno-Yosemite International Airport.  I've had a sneaking suspicion that whoever did that was a US 99 fan of some kind, there is a fairly decent following in the area.  The amusing thing was that it wasn't repeated on the other signs in the background which I think were later installs. 

[sparker]

A bit of Valley news:  The EIS for the CA 108 Modesto bypass expressway, the first phase of which extends from the CA 108/219 junction north of Modesto to a terminus at present CA 108/120 east of Oakdale, has been approved.  Stanislaus County has a corridor design simulator posted on their website; a little under 4 minutes, it follows the facility, which is being designed as a combination freeway/expressway, from west to east.  And guess what, folks?  There are no less than three roundabouts right on the main expressway lanes (3+3 on the west end; 2+2 east of Riverbank), along with several interchanges at major arterials.  Two of these are multi-lane; the last one is at the eastern terminus as the connector to CA 120 (I know, they just can't help themselves!!!!).  Looks like the whole shooting match is upgradeable to full freeway (likely with bridges over the circles); also, in a future phase this corridor will follow CA 219 west to CA 99 near Salida. 

[Max Rockatansky]

A bit of Valley news:  The EIS for the CA 108 Modesto bypass expressway, the first phase of which extends from the CA 108/219 junction north of Modesto to a terminus at present CA 108/120 east of Oakdale, has been approved.  Stanislaus County has a corridor design simulator posted on their website; a little under 4 minutes, it follows the facility, which is being designed as a combination freeway/expressway, from west to east.  And guess what, folks?  There are no less than three roundabouts right on the main expressway lanes (3+3 on the west end; 2+2 east of Riverbank), along with several interchanges at major arterials.  Two of these are multi-lane; the last one is at the eastern terminus as the connector to CA 120 (I know, they just can't help themselves!!!!).  Looks like the whole shooting match is upgradeable to full freeway (likely with bridges over the circles); also, in a future phase this corridor will follow CA 219 west to CA 99 near Salida.

I was excited to see "expressway"  in that corridor until the roundabouts came in.  They seem all fine and dandy on low capacity two lane roads, but an expressway?

[sparker]

A bit of Valley news:  The EIS for the CA 108 Modesto bypass expressway, the first phase of which extends from the CA 108/219 junction north of Modesto to a terminus at present CA 108/120 east of Oakdale, has been approved.  Stanislaus County has a corridor design simulator posted on their website; a little under 4 minutes, it follows the facility, which is being designed as a combination freeway/expressway, from west to east.  And guess what, folks?  There are no less than three roundabouts right on the main expressway lanes (3+3 on the west end; 2+2 east of Riverbank), along with several interchanges at major arterials.  Two of these are multi-lane; the last one is at the eastern terminus as the connector to CA 120 (I know, they just can't help themselves!!!!).  Looks like the whole shooting match is upgradeable to full freeway (likely with bridges over the circles); also, in a future phase this corridor will follow CA 219 west to CA 99 near Salida.

I was excited to see "expressway"  in that corridor until the roundabouts came in.  They seem all fine and dandy on low capacity two lane roads, but an expressway?

As I've said before (and repeatedly!) -- a solution in search of a problem, the mode du jour of facility design.  That portion of the valley is rife with ag trucks hurrying to the loading/processing plants in Empire or Modesto; when this thing gets built, it's only a matter of time before someone in a real rush is unable to negotiate the turns and plows right through the "eye" (hopefully not into other drivers in the circle).  From the sim shown, the road is built for speed -- adding the functional equivalent of "speed bumps" seems at minimum silly and at worst dangerous!

[Plutonic Panda]

Why won't California consider building overpasses then at this point given by previous posts they have done so in Bakersfield.

[sparker]

Why won't California consider building overpasses then at this point given by previous posts they have done so in Bakersfield.

The Bakersfield circle/bridge was specifically configured that way -- it was originally simply a circle right on US 99 -- when, wonder of wonders, oil trucks coming and going from refinery facilities in Oildale (obviously) to the north on LRN 142 regularly had close encounters of the worst kind with US 99 traffic within the circle.  Separating the two movements was appropriately deemed the way to go.  I would anticipate that in time the roundabouts on the new CA 108 bypass will be similarly addressed -- particularly after the extension to CA 99 is built.  It's likely that much of the Bay Area traffic to Sonora and Yosemite will eventually shift down CA 99 slightly south to the 108 expressway rather than slog through Escalon and Riverbank on CA 120.