California

[Plutonic Panda]

What is going on at lake Isabella with CA-178? That short segment of freeway is so bizarre. Unless they plan to extend it one day(which I doubt) this is a freeway removal that would make sense. Did they expect the metro area around Lake Isabella to become larger than it did or something?

[Max Rockatansky]

There was a planned freeway bypass of Kern River Canyon that was never built which would have connected it to Bakersfield.  That segment of CA 178 gets pretty wild given how much it is used by recreational crowds on the weekend.  Lake Isabella being at such a low elevation tends to stay popular as a place to visit all year.

[pderocco]

Freeway removal? Have you driven the road it replaces? It's even more tortuous than the road that would be replaced if the expressway were extended. (Actually, I love Kern Canyon Road, but I'd rather drive it while everyone else is on the expressway.)

The plan was to cross the river again, west of where the current expressway ends, go up onto the plateau, and come back down roughly along Rancheria Road. I think a more practical plan would simply be to extend it a couple miles on the south side of the river, straightening lots of curves, until around Willow Spring Creek. There are also a few tight curves at lower elevations that could perhaps be handled with a couple of short tunnels.

[Plutonic Panda]

I wasn't sure how busy it was. Thanks for the history on it Max. Any chance it gets extended? When I was on it it seemed so short and no traffic since it 2am so that's why I asked I wants t sure. Lake Isabella is such a cool area I can't believe I just found out about.

[Max Rockatansky]

I doubt it now.  The entirety of the Kern River doesn't seem to be anywhere near the peak popularity it was at in the 1950s and 1960s.  Speaking just regarding Alfred Harrell Highway it had traffic counts high enough to rebuilding much of it freeway standards.  Nowadays there just isn't the same volume of people visiting Hart Park.  I would imagine there is a similar pattern at work with CA 178 and Lake Isabella.  That's even before getting into things like environmental group pushback.

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pV3Uj38LRyknUquY8
So no more using the name San Diego Freeway? Everything appears to be the I-405 Freeway in ramp guide signing.

[Max Rockatansky]

Check from the I-5 south regular lane transition to I-405 south:

https://flic.kr/p/2fDMHMS

[cahwyguy]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pV3Uj38LRyknUquY8
So no more using the name San Diego Freeway? Everything appears to be the I-405 Freeway in ramp guide signing.

New "Big Green Sign" signage is de-emphasizing the name (probably because navigation apps rarely use the names). That doesn't mean the name can't be used, or that old signage out there doesn't refer to it, or that older maps don't refer to it, or that map apps don't have the name somewhere. It could also be a side effect of all the naming resolutions for short segments of highways -- this has made the broader names dating back 50 years ago meaningless.

But Caltrans, in new Big Green Sign signage, is de-emphasizing the older names. "Naming resolution" names are often on little signs by the side of the road, and are not really used in normal parlance.

It will be interesting to see the impact of the bill the governor just signed:

This bill would require the department, through the erection of highway signs and appropriate markers, to provide recognition of the historical and cultural importance of the California tribes local to, or historically located in, the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to work with certain entities, including, but not limited to, California tribes local to, or historically located along, Route 210, to name Route 210 and to identify appropriate locations for signs to recognize tribal lands along Route 210 in the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to erect those signs and other appropriate markers at the appropriate locations on Route 210, as part of the department's regularly scheduled replacement, modification, and maintenance of highway signs. The bill would specify that Route 210 shall be known and designated as the Southern California Native American Freeway or by the name developed by the department with the specified entities.

[DTComposer]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pV3Uj38LRyknUquY8
So no more using the name San Diego Freeway? Everything appears to be the I-405 Freeway in ramp guide signing.

New "Big Green Sign" signage is de-emphasizing the name (probably because navigation apps rarely use the names). That doesn't mean the name can't be used, or that old signage out there doesn't refer to it, or that older maps don't refer to it, or that map apps don't have the name somewhere. It could also be a side effect of all the naming resolutions for short segments of highways -- this has made the broader names dating back 50 years ago meaningless.

Some navigation systems glom onto the secondary and tertiary names for highways - for example, my wife's car refers to CA-85 as the Norman Y. Mineta Freeway - I think that name is only on side-of-the-road signage at the beginning and end of the route.

[mrsman]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pV3Uj38LRyknUquY8
So no more using the name San Diego Freeway? Everything appears to be the I-405 Freeway in ramp guide signing.

New "Big Green Sign" signage is de-emphasizing the name (probably because navigation apps rarely use the names). That doesn't mean the name can't be used, or that old signage out there doesn't refer to it, or that older maps don't refer to it, or that map apps don't have the name somewhere. It could also be a side effect of all the naming resolutions for short segments of highways -- this has made the broader names dating back 50 years ago meaningless.

Some navigation systems glom onto the secondary and tertiary names for highways - for example, my wife's car refers to CA-85 as the Norman Y. Mineta Freeway - I think that name is only on side-of-the-road signage at the beginning and end of the route.

Part of all of this has to do with "message loading."  This is the concept that drivers could get confused if there are too many pieces of information on a sign to process while they are driving at high speeds.  So certain pieces of information that were once common are being removed, but I believe Caltrans generally takes the approach too far.

Many freeway exits for streets used to routinely have the name of the city that the street leads to.  These are being removed in many cases.  Also, if a street also happens to be a state highway, the street name is often removed - even if it can be helpful to locals.

As far as whether a freeway's name is primary or secondary, a lot has to do with what the freeway is named for.  Geographic names are of course very prominent.  Names for people are often less so, unless the person being named is prominent.

In the case of CA-85, Norman Mineta is the main name, given his prominence in San Jose politics and even national politics (Cabinet secretary in Clinton and Bush II administations).  The namings for deceased military or public safety officials are genearlly minor names and not well known.

[cahwyguy]

In the case of CA-85, Norman Mineta is the main name, given his prominence in San Jose politics and even national politics (Cabinet secretary in Clinton and Bush II administations).  The namings for deceased military or public safety officials are genearlly minor names and not well known.

Ah, but they are all listed ... and explained ... on the California Highways site :-) We'll cover some of the more interesting ones on the podcast.

[ClassicHasClass]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pV3Uj38LRyknUquY8
So no more using the name San Diego Freeway? Everything appears to be the I-405 Freeway in ramp guide signing.

New "Big Green Sign" signage is de-emphasizing the name (probably because navigation apps rarely use the names). That doesn't mean the name can't be used, or that old signage out there doesn't refer to it, or that older maps don't refer to it, or that map apps don't have the name somewhere. It could also be a side effect of all the naming resolutions for short segments of highways -- this has made the broader names dating back 50 years ago meaningless.

But Caltrans, in new Big Green Sign signage, is de-emphasizing the older names. "Naming resolution" names are often on little signs by the side of the road, and are not really used in normal parlance.

It will be interesting to see the impact of the bill the governor just signed:

This bill would require the department, through the erection of highway signs and appropriate markers, to provide recognition of the historical and cultural importance of the California tribes local to, or historically located in, the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to work with certain entities, including, but not limited to, California tribes local to, or historically located along, Route 210, to name Route 210 and to identify appropriate locations for signs to recognize tribal lands along Route 210 in the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to erect those signs and other appropriate markers at the appropriate locations on Route 210, as part of the department's regularly scheduled replacement, modification, and maintenance of highway signs. The bill would specify that Route 210 shall be known and designated as the Southern California Native American Freeway or by the name developed by the department with the specified entities.

Was this a James Ramos bill? I'll have to go look this one up.

[cahwyguy]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pV3Uj38LRyknUquY8
So no more using the name San Diego Freeway? Everything appears to be the I-405 Freeway in ramp guide signing.

New "Big Green Sign" signage is de-emphasizing the name (probably because navigation apps rarely use the names). That doesn't mean the name can't be used, or that old signage out there doesn't refer to it, or that older maps don't refer to it, or that map apps don't have the name somewhere. It could also be a side effect of all the naming resolutions for short segments of highways -- this has made the broader names dating back 50 years ago meaningless.

But Caltrans, in new Big Green Sign signage, is de-emphasizing the older names. "Naming resolution" names are often on little signs by the side of the road, and are not really used in normal parlance.

It will be interesting to see the impact of the bill the governor just signed:

This bill would require the department, through the erection of highway signs and appropriate markers, to provide recognition of the historical and cultural importance of the California tribes local to, or historically located in, the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to work with certain entities, including, but not limited to, California tribes local to, or historically located along, Route 210, to name Route 210 and to identify appropriate locations for signs to recognize tribal lands along Route 210 in the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to erect those signs and other appropriate markers at the appropriate locations on Route 210, as part of the department's regularly scheduled replacement, modification, and maintenance of highway signs. The bill would specify that Route 210 shall be known and designated as the Southern California Native American Freeway or by the name developed by the department with the specified entities.

Was this a James Ramos bill? I'll have to go look this one up.

AB 776 (Holden) Route 210.
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB776


Existing law vests the Department of Transportation with full possession and control of all state highways. Existing law describes the authorized routes in the state highway system, including that for Route 210. Existing law requires the department to keep and repair all objects or markers adjacent to a state highway that have been erected to mark registered historical places.

This bill would require the department, through the erection of highway signs and appropriate markers, to provide recognition of the historical and cultural importance of the California tribes local to, or historically located in, the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to work with certain entities, including, but not limited to, California tribes local to, or historically located along, Route 210, to name Route 210 and to identify appropriate locations for signs to recognize tribal lands along Route 210 in the Counties of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. The bill would require the department to erect those signs and other appropriate markers at the appropriate locations on Route 210, as part of the department's regularly scheduled replacement, modification, and maintenance of highway signs. The bill would specify that Route 210 shall be known and designated as the Southern California Native American Freeway or by the name developed by the department with the specified entities.

10/08/23    Chaptered by Secretary of State - Chapter 543, Statutes of 2023.

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q37TmH9mUNKzNQkJ9
Is the sound wall along the I-405 SB Exit 57 ramp a Caltrans install or did the hotel next to the off-ramp install it? The design is not typical for freeways anywhere, but fits in aesthetically with the hotel it is adjacent to.

[cahwyguy]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q37TmH9mUNKzNQkJ9
Is the sound wall along the I-405 SB Exit 57 ramp a Caltrans install or did the hotel next to the off-ramp install it? The design is not typical for freeways anywhere, but fits in aesthetically with the hotel it is adjacent to.

As I recall, that was a hotel project when it converted from the Holiday Inn to the Angeli (or whatever it's current name is). It was originally the twin to the Holiday Inn in Long Beach.

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q37TmH9mUNKzNQkJ9
Is the sound wall along the I-405 SB Exit 57 ramp a Caltrans install or did the hotel next to the off-ramp install it? The design is not typical for freeways anywhere, but fits in aesthetically with the hotel it is adjacent to.

As I recall, that was a hotel project when it converted from the Holiday Inn to the Angeli (or whatever it's current name is). It was originally the twin to the Holiday Inn in Long Beach.

I remember when that was the Holiday Inn as my family stayed there in 1971-72 ( can't remember which year) on the 9th Floor looking SE at the Sunset Blvd overpass and seeing the skyscrapers off in a distance along Willshire Blvd. 

The Holiday Inn used to have another one like it in Charleston, SC in the median of US 17, and one more in Syracuse, NY that is still owned by the Holiday Inn successors IHG under the Crowne Plaza brand.

It cost $60 a night then making it expensive for the time, as of now it's $200 a night. I imagine with inflation it's still in the same scale of pricing as it was back then.

Didn't realize that rooms were small and pie shaped as it was too long ago for me to remember. However I remember the freeways of the time. Other than the 405 widening, it's basically the same.  Plus the center guardrail with a fence is a Jersey barrier now gracing the median.  I thought it was odd that Sepulveda and Sunset don't intersect, but Sunset and the freeway have ramps at least. Back then the WB Sunset to NB Sepulveda did not have a ramp, but that might of been because left turns were allowed onto the freeway NB from WB Sunset.

[jg4567]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q37TmH9mUNKzNQkJ9
Is the sound wall along the I-405 SB Exit 57 ramp a Caltrans install or did the hotel next to the off-ramp install it? The design is not typical for freeways anywhere, but fits in aesthetically with the hotel it is adjacent to.

As I recall, that was a hotel project when it converted from the Holiday Inn to the Angeli (or whatever it's current name is). It was originally the twin to the Holiday Inn in Long Beach.

Years ago, on my childhood trips from Fresno to Disneyland or Dodger Stadium, I could have sworn I saw one of those Holiday Inns off of I-5 at around Burbank.  I remember always wanting to stay there instead of Motel 6 or the Candy Cane Inn.  I might have to dig up one of my vintage AAA TourBooks to investigate. 

I did see one of those still standing off of I-5 in Downtown San Diego last week.  It's now a Four Points Sheraton.

[ClassicHasClass]

AB 776 (Holden) Route 210.
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB776

Ah, thanks for that. Sombrero tip. 

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q37TmH9mUNKzNQkJ9
Is the sound wall along the I-405 SB Exit 57 ramp a Caltrans install or did the hotel next to the off-ramp install it? The design is not typical for freeways anywhere, but fits in aesthetically with the hotel it is adjacent to.

As I recall, that was a hotel project when it converted from the Holiday Inn to the Angeli (or whatever it's current name is). It was originally the twin to the Holiday Inn in Long Beach.

Years ago, on my childhood trips from Fresno to Disneyland or Dodger Stadium, I could have sworn I saw one of those Holiday Inns off of I-5 at around Burbank.  I remember always wanting to stay there instead of Motel 6 or the Candy Cane Inn.  I might have to dig up one of my vintage AAA TourBooks to investigate. 

I did see one of those still standing off of I-5 in Downtown San Diego last week.  It's now a Four Points Sheraton.

http://leonardlundgrenarchitect.com/Holiday_Inn_San_Diego,_NOW.html

The one in San Diego was a Holiday Inn as well.

I think we can go here
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32553.msg2794878#msg2794878
To discuss those hotels. Leave this for CA Highway talk.

[gonealookin]

This looks like it would be fun as a roadgeeking history event if you were in Pasadena this Sunday morning, October 29:  ArroyoFest 2023, a closure of the Arroyo Seco Parkway for pedestrians and bicyclists to explore it.

Pasadena is gearing up for a historic and festive event on Sunday, Oct. 29, when the Arroyo Seco Parkway, also known as the 110 Freeway, will be closed to vehicle traffic and opened to people walking, biking, or on any form of active transportation, for six hours.

The fun event, called ArroyoFest 2023, marks the 20th anniversary of the first time that the parkway was transformed into a car-free zone for biking, walking, and exploring.
...
"The parkway's southbound/westside lanes will essentially be transformed into a giant sidewalk reserved for pedestrians including runners, walkers, people with small children/rollers, and people with wheelchairs able to move freely in either direction," Reutimann said. "The northbound/east side lanes will be reserved for wheeled devices including bikes, scooters, and skateboards."
...
As to road closures, Reutimann said the Arroyo Seco Parkway will be closed from Glenarm Avenue in Pasadena to Avenue 26 in LA's Lincoln Heights neighborhood.

In addition, one mile of local streets in South Pasadena will be closed to vehicular traffic: Orange Grove Blvd. from SR 110 to Mission Street, and Mission Street from Orange Grove Blvd. to Marengo Ave. Attendees will be able to enter the event route via any on/off ramp between Avenue 26 and Glenarm Ave.

That says "six hours" but the main event appears to be 7 a.m. to 11 a.m. and then I suppose they allow extra time to clear the stragglers.  Map of the event here.

[TheStranger]

The incorrectly numbered tab for one of the exit signs on US 101/Bayshore Freeway in SF (northbound at 3rd Street) has been fixed:
3rd street fixed exit tab by Chris Sampang, on Flickr

[Quillz]

They forgot the white outline.

[Scott5114]

Caltrans: We can't have exit tabs, they don't meet wind loading requiiiiiiiiiirements!
Also Caltrans: One line of 16" text goes on a 120" panel, right?

[TheStranger]

I-10/Santa Monica Freeway closure yesterday (leading to traffic en route to Griffith Observatory for me) due to a massive fire just west of the East Los Angeles Interchange:

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/massive-downtown-la-fire-shuts-down-10-freeway-interchange-indefinitely/

[Alps]

I-10/Santa Monica Freeway closure yesterday (leading to traffic en route to Griffith Observatory for me) due to a massive fire just west of the East Los Angeles Interchange:

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/massive-downtown-la-fire-shuts-down-10-freeway-interchange-indefinitely/

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=34119