US Toll Roads Using A Closed (Ticket) System

[swbrotha100]

So this year the Massachusetts Turnpike will eventually go to all electronic tolling and get rid of their ticket system. Are there plans for the remaining toll roads to go to AET, or at least just flat rate tolls and AET? I know the Pennsylvania Turnpike wants to go to AET in a few years.

[cpzilliacus]

Some of the new all-electronic toll collection toll roads are in fact operated as if they were "ticket" systems.

The oldest is probably Highway 407 in Ontario. 

Maryland's ICC (200) and North Carolina's Triangle Expressway (147 and 540) both use a variant on the "ticket" system.

Transurban's 495Express HOV/Toll lanes in Virginia use a virtual ticket system.  Their 95Express (which are one reversible roadway) also uses a virtual ticket system, but tolls along the way can vary (drivers only "lock in" toll rates for the next three exit points), so it really deserves a category  of its own.

[Duke87]

Is the ICC itself not a "virtual ticket" system? All of the collection gantries are over the mainline lanes, but if you drive the road it shows up on your E-Zpass statement as one transaction with an entrance at the first one you passed under and an exit at the last one you passed under.

I imagine the MassPike will do something similar, unlike, say, the Garden State Parkway where each barrier toll shows up as a separate transaction on your statement. With the caveat that, unlike the ICC, there will be some free rides possible within the ticket system.


In terms of other toll roads...
- the new toll plaza installed at expanded exit 8 on the NJ turnpike was designed and built in such a way for the booths to be easily removable in the future, but the turnpike is not as far as I know actively developing any plans to go cashless.
- the NYS thruway has already gone cashless at the Tappan Zee toll plaza and will do so at the Yonkers, New Rochelle, and Harriman barriers at some point in the near future as well. The main ticket system would be a much more massive undertaking since it would have to all convert at once, so who knows when more of that will move forward.
- the Maine Turnpike currently operates on a barrier system for out of state users but E-Zpass readers exist over every entrance and exit ramp such that in state E-Zpass users get charged via a ticket system which isn't even virtual because your tag is read at its actual points of entrance and exit. Should the Maine Turnpike develop plans to go AET I imagine they will likely keep their ticket system since some of the necessary infrastructure to operate it cashlessly is already in place.
- Florida's Turnpike already went cashless in the Miami area, but the ticketed section further north still accepts cash with the exception of a few SunPass only exits added in recent years, a la the PA Turnpike's E-Zpass only exits.

[wphiii]

Would the PA Turnpike actually function any differently if it went AET?

[epzik8]

Not a toll road per se, but the express toll lanes in the median of I-95 north of Baltimore are E-ZPass only.

[roadman]

I imagine the MassPike will do something similar, unlike, say, the Garden State Parkway where each barrier toll shows up as a separate transaction on your statement. With the caveat that, unlike the ICC, there will be some free rides possible within the ticket system.

Based on what I've been hearing, the new MassPike AET system will bill every gantry as a separate transaction, and not bill a trip as a single "end to end" charge.  A little birdie (no, not Twitter) tells me this is because there will be short segments of the Turnpike mainline (in the Springfield and Worcester areas) where free travel on the mainline between certain exits exists.  Not sure how easy it would be to change this in the billing system, but perhaps people out there planning on attending the AET public hearings may want to raise the issue with the MassDOT tolling officials.

[jeffandnicole]

I imagine the MassPike will do something similar, unlike, say, the Garden State Parkway where each barrier toll shows up as a separate transaction on your statement. With the caveat that, unlike the ICC, there will be some free rides possible within the ticket system.

Based on what I've been hearing, the new MassPike AET system will bill every gantry as a separate transaction, and not bill a trip as a single "end to end" charge.  A little birdie (no, not Twitter) tells me this is because there will be short segments of the Turnpike mainline (in the Springfield and Worcester areas) where free travel on the mainline between certain exits exists.  Not sure how easy it would be to change this in the billing system, but perhaps people out there planning on attending the AET public hearings may want to raise the issue with the MassDOT tolling officials.

That is going to make for a lengthy statement or bill!

[PHLBOS]

Would the PA Turnpike actually function any differently if it went AET?

The easternmost leg of the Turnpike (the Future I-95 section) switched to an AET system earlier this year with a toll gantry for westbound traffic coming in from NJ ($5 E-ZPass, $6.50 Toll-By-Plate).  The easternmost part of the ticketed system was relocated just east of the US 1 & PA 132 interchanges (at MM 353) at the same time.

[hbelkins]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

[jeffandnicole]

The NJ Turnpike has talked about it almost in a way to use it as a bargaining chip to lower the wages of the toll collectors.  They don't seem to have any near or semi-near plans to convert to AET.  In fact, they have expanded a few toll plazas recently.

[kalvado]

I imagine the MassPike will do something similar, unlike, say, the Garden State Parkway where each barrier toll shows up as a separate transaction on your statement. With the caveat that, unlike the ICC, there will be some free rides possible within the ticket system.

Based on what I've been hearing, the new MassPike AET system will bill every gantry as a separate transaction, and not bill a trip as a single "end to end" charge.  A little birdie (no, not Twitter) tells me this is because there will be short segments of the Turnpike mainline (in the Springfield and Worcester areas) where free travel on the mainline between certain exits exists.  Not sure how easy it would be to change this in the billing system, but perhaps people out there planning on attending the AET public hearings may want to raise the issue with the MassDOT tolling officials.

That is going to make for a lengthy statement or bill!

For truckers maybe.. I already get my statement electronically, and I don't really care if it is 1 screen or 3 as long as Ctrl-F still works.

[Avalanchez71]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

I shunpike but I think that you pay the full through rate at onset and then you get a partial refund when you get off.  I seem to recall reading something about it.

[briantroutman]

Would the PA Turnpike actually function any differently if it went AET?

I've wondered the same thing. I don't know if the PTC's AET plans are publicly available or not, but my guess is that the majority of the system would remain a "virtual closed ticket"  after conversion to AET. The conversion to a open road tolling gantry at the eastern end I suspect has more to do with accommodating future I-95 traffic and less to do with the Turnpike itself.

[jeffandnicole]

Would the PA Turnpike actually function any differently if it went AET?

I’ve wondered the same thing. I don’t know if the PTC’s AET plans are publicly available or not, but my guess is that the majority of the system would remain a “virtual closed ticket” after conversion to AET. The conversion to a open road tolling gantry at the eastern end I suspect has more to do with accommodating future I-95 traffic and less to do with the Turnpike itself.

More/Less, it's the same thing they did at the western end of the Turnpike.

[Avalanchez71]

So the Pennslyvania Turnpike still has not paid for itselft since 1940?

[briantroutman]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

I shunpike but I think that you pay the full through rate at onset and then you get a partial refund when you get off.  I seem to recall reading something about it.

Kind of–at least when I last drove the OK turnpikes a few years ago.

Let's say there are four interchanges spaced widely across a 50-mile long turnpike, and to keep things simple, the toll is $1 at the first exit, $2 at the second, etc. ...$5 to go the whole way.

You enter at the end of the turnpike–at the state line–and you don't pick up a ticket or pay a toll...yet. If you exited at the first interchange, you would hit an off-line toll plaza where you'd pay a $1 toll. At the second interchange, you'd pay a $2 toll. But you don't exit, so you get half way across the turnpike without taking a ticket or paying anything.

Then between Exits 2 and 3, you'll encounter a barrier toll plaza where you pay a $5 toll–the full charge for the entire length. Signs at the toll plaza tell you to get a refund receipt if you plan to exit before the end of the turnpike. So if you decided to get off at Exit 3 (where the charge would be $3), you'd show the toll plaza attendant your receipt, and he or she would give you $2 back.

Things get a bit more complicated when you get on at the interchanges in between. Drivers see instructions like "Tulsa Traffic Pull Ticket ... Joplin Traffic Pay Toll" .

Despite seeming unnecessarily complex, the net effect of this setup is that for traffic that drives the entire length of the turnpike without exiting (which I assume is a relatively high percentage in OK), they need stop only once, as opposed to twice in a closed ticket system or multiple times with multiple barrier tolls.

[theline]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

Actually, the Indiana Toll Road can be best described as "mixed." It's a ticket system between the east end and approximately milepost 22, where the west barrier is found. Motorists travelling west of that point may encounter additional unticketed tolls.

[Brandon]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

Actually, the Indiana Toll Road can be best described as "mixed." It's a ticket system between the east end and approximately milepost 22, where the west barrier is found. Motorists travelling west of that point may encounter additional unticketed tolls.

There's three barriers (added in the mid-1980s from the original two barriers).

Westpoint Barrier (MP 2) collects a flat toll, like the ISTHA toll plazas.
Willowcreek Barrier (MP 24) is the western end of the ticket system.
Eastpoint Barrier (MP 153) is the eastern end of the ticket system.

Eastpoint is the only barrier still in its original location.  Westpoint was moved in the mid-1980s from MP 5 to its current location when Willowcreek was added.

[jeffandnicole]

So the Pennslyvania Turnpike still has not paid for itselft since 1940?

The repaving,  replacing, widening, and snow plowing ain't free.

[vdeane]

I imagine the MassPike will do something similar, unlike, say, the Garden State Parkway where each barrier toll shows up as a separate transaction on your statement. With the caveat that, unlike the ICC, there will be some free rides possible within the ticket system.

Based on what I've been hearing, the new MassPike AET system will bill every gantry as a separate transaction, and not bill a trip as a single "end to end" charge.  A little birdie (no, not Twitter) tells me this is because there will be short segments of the Turnpike mainline (in the Springfield and Worcester areas) where free travel on the mainline between certain exits exists.  Not sure how easy it would be to change this in the billing system, but perhaps people out there planning on attending the AET public hearings may want to raise the issue with the MassDOT tolling officials.

Couldn't they operate multiple virtual ticket systems, similar to how the Thruway has one ticket system for exits 15A-50 and another for exits 55-61?

[mtantillo]

I hope MassPike bills each separately, because they will all show up on your statement right away. When toll agencies have to combine gantry reads into a "trip", it takes several days to post to your account. Not sure why, but this is an issue on the ICC, the Virginia Expesss Lanes, and Georgia's 85 express lanes (so not E-ZPass specific).

The PA Turnpike AET plan is a virtual ticket system, with mainline gantries.

The Maine Turnpike is a hybrid actually. For out of state users it's a pure barrier system. But for Maine users, it operates like a ticket system, but the prices are capped at whatever the cash price is for that movement. So short movements that pass through the barrier tolls pay a per mile rate (York to Wells is $0.90 with Maine EZP and $3.00 cash), but long trips between intermediate interchanges are capped. So Kennebunk to Gray is $1.00 cash or E-ZPass.

Interestingly, this virtual ticket system only operates between York and New Gloucester. Within Auburn, Lewiston, and Sabattus, it is free, and then barrier tolls only at West Gardiner (mainline and ramps). But all of the "free" ramps have E-ZPass readers even though no tolls are charged. Data collection perhaps? I wonder if they read and record out of state E-ZPass for data collection purposes too.

[UCFKnights]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

I shunpike but I think that you pay the full through rate at onset and then you get a partial refund when you get off.  I seem to recall reading something about it.

Kind of–at least when I last drove the OK turnpikes a few years ago.

Let's say there are four interchanges spaced widely across a 50-mile long turnpike, and to keep things simple, the toll is $1 at the first exit, $2 at the second, etc. ...$5 to go the whole way.

You enter at the end of the turnpike–at the state line–and you don't pick up a ticket or pay a toll...yet. If you exited at the first interchange, you would hit an off-line toll plaza where you'd pay a $1 toll. At the second interchange, you'd pay a $2 toll. But you don't exit, so you get half way across the turnpike without taking a ticket or paying anything.

Then between Exits 2 and 3, you'll encounter a barrier toll plaza where you pay a $5 toll–the full charge for the entire length. Signs at the toll plaza tell you to get a refund receipt if you plan to exit before the end of the turnpike. So if you decided to get off at Exit 3 (where the charge would be $3), you'd show the toll plaza attendant your receipt, and he or she would give you $2 back.

Things get a bit more complicated when you get on at the interchanges in between. Drivers see instructions like "Tulsa Traffic Pull Ticket ... Joplin Traffic Pay Toll" .

Despite seeming unnecessarily complex, the net effect of this setup is that for traffic that drives the entire length of the turnpike without exiting (which I assume is a relatively high percentage in OK), they need stop only once, as opposed to twice in a closed ticket system or multiple times with multiple barrier tolls.

Wow that seems unnecessarily complex. I never really understood why if you are entering the ticket system at the beginning (maximum toll entry point), you need a ticket. Just have a single barrier plaza at the end with a price for no ticket/maximum toll users.

The toll plaza is pretty interesting though. I haven't seen one before where the attendant handles incoming and outgoing traffic for 2 different directions of traffic. The street view picture also looks like there isn't really good cameras there and if there is no further toll plaza, whats to stop someone from pulling a ticket and driving past Joplin? The attendant needing to pay attention which direction they turn up ahead at the fork?

[mtantillo]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

I shunpike but I think that you pay the full through rate at onset and then you get a partial refund when you get off.  I seem to recall reading something about it.

Kind of–at least when I last drove the OK turnpikes a few years ago.

Let's say there are four interchanges spaced widely across a 50-mile long turnpike, and to keep things simple, the toll is $1 at the first exit, $2 at the second, etc. ...$5 to go the whole way.

You enter at the end of the turnpike–at the state line–and you don't pick up a ticket or pay a toll...yet. If you exited at the first interchange, you would hit an off-line toll plaza where you'd pay a $1 toll. At the second interchange, you'd pay a $2 toll. But you don't exit, so you get half way across the turnpike without taking a ticket or paying anything.

Then between Exits 2 and 3, you'll encounter a barrier toll plaza where you pay a $5 toll–the full charge for the entire length. Signs at the toll plaza tell you to get a refund receipt if you plan to exit before the end of the turnpike. So if you decided to get off at Exit 3 (where the charge would be $3), you'd show the toll plaza attendant your receipt, and he or she would give you $2 back.

Things get a bit more complicated when you get on at the interchanges in between. Drivers see instructions like "Tulsa Traffic Pull Ticket ... Joplin Traffic Pay Toll" .

Despite seeming unnecessarily complex, the net effect of this setup is that for traffic that drives the entire length of the turnpike without exiting (which I assume is a relatively high percentage in OK), they need stop only once, as opposed to twice in a closed ticket system or multiple times with multiple barrier tolls.

Wow that seems unnecessarily complex. I never really understood why if you are entering the ticket system at the beginning (maximum toll entry point), you need a ticket. Just have a single barrier plaza at the end with a price for no ticket/maximum toll users.

The toll plaza is pretty interesting though. I haven't seen one before where the attendant handles incoming and outgoing traffic for 2 different directions of traffic. The street view picture also looks like there isn't really good cameras there and if there is no further toll plaza, whats to stop someone from pulling a ticket and driving past Joplin? The attendant needing to pay attention which direction they turn up ahead at the fork?

I recall being on the toll road from Madrid to Avila/Segovia and there being no ticket dispenser for those heading north out of Madrid. Not sure if it is still like that.

Problem is that in most cases, the exit lanes are not separated by direction. So if you get onto the NJ Turnpike at Exit 1, and get off at Exit 2 without a ticket, you'll be charged from Exit 18, not Exit 1. If exiting traffic was separated by direction, then they could do this. I've always thought it would be neat if cash payers going beyond the halfway point could just run through the ETC lanes and show up at the exit with no ticket. This could be be signed with something to the effect of "All traffic to Exit 10 and beyond keep left, no ticket required".

[jeffandnicole]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

I shunpike but I think that you pay the full through rate at onset and then you get a partial refund when you get off.  I seem to recall reading something about it.

Kind of—at least when I last drove the OK turnpikes a few years ago.

Let’s say there are four interchanges spaced widely across a 50-mile long turnpike, and to keep things simple, the toll is $1 at the first exit, $2 at the second, etc. ...$5 to go the whole way.

You enter at the end of the turnpike—at the state line—and you don’t pick up a ticket or pay a toll...yet. If you exited at the first interchange, you would hit an off-line toll plaza where you’d pay a $1 toll. At the second interchange, you’d pay a $2 toll. But you don’t exit, so you get half way across the turnpike without taking a ticket or paying anything.

Then between Exits 2 and 3, you’ll encounter a barrier toll plaza where you pay a $5 toll—the full charge for the entire length. Signs at the toll plaza tell you to get a refund receipt if you plan to exit before the end of the turnpike. So if you decided to get off at Exit 3 (where the charge would be $3), you’d show the toll plaza attendant your receipt, and he or she would give you $2 back.

Things get a bit more complicated when you get on at the interchanges in between. Drivers see instructions like “Tulsa Traffic Pull Ticket ... Joplin Traffic Pay Toll”.

Despite seeming unnecessarily complex, the net effect of this setup is that for traffic that drives the entire length of the turnpike without exiting (which I assume is a relatively high percentage in OK), they need stop only once, as opposed to twice in a closed ticket system or multiple times with multiple barrier tolls.

Wow that seems unnecessarily complex. I never really understood why if you are entering the ticket system at the beginning (maximum toll entry point), you need a ticket. Just have a single barrier plaza at the end with a price for no ticket/maximum toll users.

Assuming we're talking about most ticket systems and not what Kansas does, remember that there are always 2 beginnings...on either end of the Turnpike!

Let's say there's a Turnpike with 10 exits.  You get on at Exit 1, but get off at the next exit (Exit 2).  Without that ticket, Exit 2 doesn't know if you entered at Exit 1 or Exit 10, so they're going to charge you as if you drove from Exit 10 to Exit 2. 

[UCFKnights]

The Kansas Turnpike is a ticket system. So are Indiana's and Ohio's toll roads.

The two Oklahoma turnpikes along I-44 have a weird ticket system. I'll leave it up to someone else more familiar with that system to explain it.

I shunpike but I think that you pay the full through rate at onset and then you get a partial refund when you get off.  I seem to recall reading something about it.

Kind of–at least when I last drove the OK turnpikes a few years ago.

Let's say there are four interchanges spaced widely across a 50-mile long turnpike, and to keep things simple, the toll is $1 at the first exit, $2 at the second, etc. ...$5 to go the whole way.

You enter at the end of the turnpike–at the state line–and you don't pick up a ticket or pay a toll...yet. If you exited at the first interchange, you would hit an off-line toll plaza where you'd pay a $1 toll. At the second interchange, you'd pay a $2 toll. But you don't exit, so you get half way across the turnpike without taking a ticket or paying anything.

Then between Exits 2 and 3, you'll encounter a barrier toll plaza where you pay a $5 toll–the full charge for the entire length. Signs at the toll plaza tell you to get a refund receipt if you plan to exit before the end of the turnpike. So if you decided to get off at Exit 3 (where the charge would be $3), you'd show the toll plaza attendant your receipt, and he or she would give you $2 back.

Things get a bit more complicated when you get on at the interchanges in between. Drivers see instructions like "Tulsa Traffic Pull Ticket ... Joplin Traffic Pay Toll" .

Despite seeming unnecessarily complex, the net effect of this setup is that for traffic that drives the entire length of the turnpike without exiting (which I assume is a relatively high percentage in OK), they need stop only once, as opposed to twice in a closed ticket system or multiple times with multiple barrier tolls.

Wow that seems unnecessarily complex. I never really understood why if you are entering the ticket system at the beginning (maximum toll entry point), you need a ticket. Just have a single barrier plaza at the end with a price for no ticket/maximum toll users.

Assuming we're talking about most ticket systems and not what Kansas does, remember that there are always 2 beginnings...on either end of the Turnpike!

Let's say there's a Turnpike with 10 exits.  You get on at Exit 1, but get off at the next exit (Exit 2).  Without that ticket, Exit 2 doesn't know if you entered at Exit 1 or Exit 10, so they're going to charge you as if you drove from Exit 10 to Exit 2.

Ah, makes sense. I haven't driven too much on ticket systems and when I have, I've gotten off at more popular exits which have separate booths (and I've used ETC for a long time now). I guess thats why they're popular in rural areas, one attendant can process the tolls of 4 ramps instead of having up to 4 attendants if every direction needs a toll collected.