Protected Left signal one direction while the oncoming traffic is yield on green

[peterj920]

In Fond Du Lac, WI, there are 2 intersections where one direction has a protected left turn, while the oncoming traffic has a yield on green and does not have a protected left signal.  Are there any other occurrences where this happens? 




Main St and Johnson St in Fond Du Lac.  Northbound traffic has a protected left turn while southbound traffic is yield on green. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7846313,-88.4859444,3a,75y,188.08h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf4xM2NFyLz3vuZSvwiXAvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Wis 23 and Rolling Meadows Dr   

Southbound Rolling Meadows Dr has a protected left turn while northbound traffic is yield on green

[froggie]

Unless things have changed in the past couple years, Cedar Ave & Riverside Ave near downtown Minneapolis, MN has this.

[coatimundi]

So, at the time of this picture, the opposing/oncoming traffic had a green and was expected to yield to the left turning traffic? Or am I not understanding this?

[UCFKnights]

There's a few around here
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6596159,-82.4198658,3a,52y,291.62h,88.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfVLLIEowlcJejoR4dg6gxA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[MASTERNC]

One near me as well

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0728078,-75.438098,3a,75y,19.77h,83.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSRbDvti7VP0BxOeDgFV64A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[freebrickproductions]

Seen several like this near me in Huntsville, AL. Just a few examples:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6722238,-86.5393011,3a,48.2y,169.64h,89.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8IqbpALAewSLPLvWddy7NA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7197785,-86.580802,3a,75y,264.02h,87.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSIE606A75yBvyOJPPULoKg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7200954,-86.5790125,3a,75y,231.49h,96.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spKp9hqkpM3ztJbSCKAhLsQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7197071,-86.5734991,3a,75y,208.7h,98.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCEPQC9_q8Nn3fk0osV08PA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[peterj920]

So, at the time of this picture, the opposing/oncoming traffic had a green and was expected to yield to the left turning traffic? Or am I not understanding this?

The oncoming traffic can yield and turn left in the picture above when northbound traffic has a straight arrow and both directions are green except for the protected left turn northbound that would be red.  Usually both directions are either protected or yield on green.  It's unique to have different sets of rules for oncoming traffic, that's why I posted this.

[Revive 755]

I'm not finding the wording of the original post clear - are we supposed to be looking for intersections where one direction can only turn left on a green arrow (protected only), while the other direction can turn left on either a green arrow and green ball/flashing yellow arrow (protected-permitted), or for intersections where one direction is protected only, but the other direction can only gets a circular green or flashing yellow arrow to turn on (permissive only)?  I'm seeing a single 5-section on the far left side for NB Rolling Meadows on the linked example (as well as a forbidden straight red arrow for SB).

If we are looking for protect only one direction and protected-permissive the other:
* Arlington Heights Road at US 14 in Arlington Heights, IL  Streetview
* Leigh Avenue at Chestnut Avenue in Glenview, IL Streetview
* Lincolnway at Grand Avenue in Ames, IA Streetview
* Big Bend Road at Meramec Station Road (former MO 141) in Twin Oaks, Missouri Streetview
* US 61/US 67 at Butler Hill Road in St. Louis County Streetview
* US 61/US 67 at Big Bend Road in Kirkwood, Missouri Streetview
* US 61/US 67 at the County Library south of Clayton Road in Frontenac, MO Streetview
* 40th Street at Highway 2 in Lincoln, NE Streetview

If we are looking for protected only one direction and permissive-only for the other:

* US 61/US 67 at Forder Road in St. Louis County Streetview

[jakeroot]

In Tucson, AZ, there is a scenario where a double left turn is the permissive movement, and the single left turn is protected. Here's my post from the Traffic Signals thread:

I've bolded a particularly relevant paragraph as well...

Another Tucson find. Golf Links Road has a permissive dual left turn onto NB Swan Road. The single lane left turn onto SB Swan Road (from the opposite direction) is protected only. Dual permissive turns are very common in Tucson, as I have already covered extensively, but they are almost always against another permissive turn, so that makes this situation very unique, especially given that the oncoming left turn is only a single lane.

The opposite of this, where the dual turns are protected but the single turn is not, is relatively common nationwide, but the opposite .... I'm certain that this is a one-off situation.

https://goo.gl/JYGa7M

Note the cat-tracks from the right of the image, facing the 5-section signal on the left of the image; as well, note the 3-section signal on the right of the image for the single lane left turn:

[Bitmapped]

Monongahela Boulevard (US 19/WV 7) and Boyers Avenue in Star City, WV has a protected left turn in one direction and perm-prot left turn for the other direction. It used to be perm-prot for both directions but was changed because of a higher collision rate in one direction. https://goo.gl/maps/3sshGDM2gL12

Further up the road at Monongahela Boulevard (US 19/WV 7) and Patteson Drive (WV 705), the double left turn has always been protected. The single left turn off Monongahela Bouelvard NW bound was previously permissive-protected but changed after a couple years. I'm not sure of the exact reason why. https://goo.gl/maps/Rjf6k7WjSpv

On the other side of Morgantown, the left turn configuration at WV 705 and Stewartstown Road has shifted over time. Several years ago, WV 705 approaches had permissive-protected and Stewartstown Road was all permissive. Each direction gradually added or picked up  a protected left turn. For a while, one direction of Stewartstown Road was protected only and the other direction was permissive only. https://goo.gl/maps/tEpiXWwJNrz

[OracleUsr]

US 70 at Intercraft drive, Statesville.  Traffic heading east has a FYA signal with a green arrow, the other has a three-lamp FYA with no protected turn.

[roadman]

Main St at Water St/West Water St in Wakefield, MA.  Southbound Main Street to eastbound Water Street has a protected left turn, but northbound Main Street to westbound West Water Street has a permissive left turn.

[coatimundi]

In Tucson, AZ, there is a scenario where a double left turn is the permissive movement, and the single left turn is protected. Here's my post from the Traffic Signals thread:

I've bolded a particularly relevant paragraph as well...

Another Tucson find. Golf Links Road has a permissive dual left turn onto NB Swan Road. The single lane left turn onto SB Swan Road (from the opposite direction) is protected only. Dual permissive turns are very common in Tucson, as I have already covered extensively, but they are almost always against another permissive turn, so that makes this situation very unique, especially given that the oncoming left turn is only a single lane.

The opposite of this, where the dual turns are protected but the single turn is not, is relatively common nationwide, but the opposite .... I'm certain that this is a one-off situation.

https://goo.gl/JYGa7M

Note the cat-tracks from the right of the image, facing the 5-section signal on the left of the image; as well, note the 3-section signal on the right of the image for the single lane left turn:

The next intersection down, at Golf Links and Craycroft, has a dual permissive left on one side and a dual protected left on the other.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1923452,-110.8751674,3a,37.5y,266.74h,87.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMbXyZtf0ifNrPB5eS0SNAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The protected left on both intersections leads into gates for Davis-Monthan AFB. The main, 24-hour gate is at Craycroft while the Swan gate is only open during the day. The Craycroft one has more lanes and sees more traffic. IIRC, the Craycroft is also the only one open to contractors.
I would guess that, because these both lead into gates that can get backed up, the protected left keeps people from blocking the intersection while opposing traffic (the speed limit is something like 45 right there) is still coming.
There are a few of these intersections around town, usually where the left turn is more dangerous on on side, but I don't recall where they are.
Tucson mostly has lagging left turn signals. In fact, when they have a leading left turn at an intersection, there's usually a sign stating "Green begins with arrow" so that people aren't confused. The local habit is typically to pull into the intersection on a green light and wait for opposing traffic to clear. You can usually flag the tourists and snowbirds when they don't do this.

I was going to mention the Stone/River intersection on this post, because it's got a really interesting configuration, but it turns out they redesigned it last year into something pretty standard. It used to be, when I lived up there, southbound Stone had no left arrow but northbound, with more traffic, started on the same solid green and had a permissive left. So, if you went straight, you would have to wait for people turning left to realize that you were there and had the right of way before proceeding so as to not get hit. Later, when I moved to a different part of town, they changed it so that the southbound side had about a two second head start on the solid green, but would remain solid when the northbound side changed.

[jakeroot]

The next intersection down, at Golf Links and Craycroft, has a dual permissive left on one side and a dual protected left on the other.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1923452,-110.8751674,3a,37.5y,266.74h,87.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMbXyZtf0ifNrPB5eS0SNAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The protected left on both intersections leads into gates for Davis-Monthan AFB. The main, 24-hour gate is at Craycroft while the Swan gate is only open during the day. The Craycroft one has more lanes and sees more traffic. IIRC, the Craycroft is also the only one open to contractors.
I would guess that, because these both lead into gates that can get backed up, the protected left keeps people from blocking the intersection while opposing traffic (the speed limit is something like 45 right there) is still coming.

This makes perfect sense. I've been looking for an explanation for some time -- why I didn't notice the base gates before, I'll never know.

Below is rather off-topic...

There are a few of these intersections around town, usually where the left turn is more dangerous on on side, but I don't recall where they are.
Tucson mostly has lagging left turn signals. In fact, when they have a leading left turn at an intersection, there's usually a sign stating "Green begins with arrow" so that people aren't confused. The local habit is typically to pull into the intersection on a green light and wait for opposing traffic to clear. You can usually flag the tourists and snowbirds when they don't do this.

I was going to mention the Stone/River intersection on this post, because it's got a really interesting configuration, but it turns out they redesigned it last year into something pretty standard. It used to be, when I lived up there, southbound Stone had no left arrow but northbound, with more traffic, started on the same solid green and had a permissive left. So, if you went straight, you would have to wait for people turning left to realize that you were there and had the right of way before proceeding so as to not get hit. Later, when I moved to a different part of town, they changed it so that the southbound side had about a two second head start on the solid green, but would remain solid when the northbound side changed.

I've brought up Tucson a lot on this forum. The engineers just do things differently down there. It's very unlike the rest of the US.

- Wide use of dual permissive turns
--> The city outright (evidently, officially) opposes protected turns: https://www.tucsonaz.gov/tdot/left-turn-arrows
--> Tucson actually designed most of their left turns with consideration of permissive dual turns: (see here under operational performance)
- Left turns with an optional straight/left lane are often permissive only. Outside of Tucson, this is universally a split-phase situation
- Permissive turns across any number of lanes, with no speed limit consideration
- At least one dual permissive half SPUI (though less interesting, given that it's only a half-intersection)
- Lagging left turns at most intersections with opposing pro/per signals, even though 5-section signals are used (I only ever see lagging turns with flashing yellow arrows)

Colorado is the closest comparison, in terms of the liberal use of the permissive phase. But nothing really comes close to Tucson.

[coatimundi]

- Wide use of dual permissive turns
--> The city outright (evidently, officially) opposes protected turns: https://www.tucsonaz.gov/tdot/left-turn-arrows
--> Tucson actually designed most of their left turns with consideration of permissive dual turns: (see here under operational performance)
- Left turns with an optional straight/left lane are often permissive only. Outside of Tucson, this is universally a split-phase situation
- Permissive turns across any number of lanes, with no speed limit consideration

Until fairly recently, unincorporated Pima County restricted permissive dual turns while the city, of course, adored them. This created a strange situation, where most of the intersections in the Foothills and in suburban areas like Tucson Estates were just suddenly different. I don't know exactly when or why it changed, but I would imagine it was just a matter of Pima County finally relenting. I would imagine it was confusing. I only knew it was a rule because the local daily paper had a story about it years ago.

- At least one dual permissive half SPUI (though less interesting, given that it's only a half-intersection)

Are you referring to the Broadway-Aviation intersection? That's a weird one, and quite dangerous, because the sight line, although it would be fine for the posted 25mph limit, is not fine since everyone speeds through there.
It'll be interesting to see how this intersection looks if and when the Aviation extension ever happens. The design docs and maps aren't totally clear.
The one full SPUI in town, and a pretty old one at that, at Kino-Aviation, does have protected turns at each movement. Even right turns are restricted to the arrow for traffic coming from Aviation, and I've always assumed it was because the way the bridge was built.
Meanwhile, the expressway portion of Aviation, often with a 55mph limit, has permissive left turns on it, which always seemed really dangerous to me.

That's the funny thing about Tucson: it's all gridded and has few freeways, so you'd think it wouldn't be very interesting from a roadgeek perspective, but there's a lot of weird stuff when you dig a little below the surface.

[JMAN_WiS&S]

In Fond Du Lac, WI, there are 2 intersections where one direction has a protected left turn, while the oncoming traffic has a yield on green and does not have a protected left signal.  Are there any other occurrences where this happens? 




Main St and Johnson St in Fond Du Lac.  Northbound traffic has a protected left turn while southbound traffic is yield on green. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7846313,-88.4859444,3a,75y,188.08h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf4xM2NFyLz3vuZSvwiXAvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Wis 23 and Rolling Meadows Dr   

Southbound Rolling Meadows Dr has a protected left turn while northbound traffic is yield on green

That is the first time I've evER seen a trombone mounted left turn signal that isn't a 5 stack in wisconsin. Can't think of any in western wisconsin. I also don't understand why the straight signal is way close to the left besides saving the time to drill another hole in arm for wiring. Easily could've been placed over straight thru lane.

[Eth]

In Fond Du Lac, WI, there are 2 intersections where one direction has a protected left turn, while the oncoming traffic has a yield on green and does not have a protected left signal.  Are there any other occurrences where this happens?

W Ponce de Leon Ave at Commerce Dr in Decatur, GA is protected-only eastbound and permissive-only westbound. This seems to be done as a way to encourage thru traffic to go around the downtown area on Commerce instead of proceeding through on Ponce. The intersection on the east side, though, has a more typical doghouse setup in both directions.

[DaBigE]

If I am understanding the post correctly (protected left opposing a protected/permissive left?), Madison has at least a couple:

E Washington Ave (US 151) @ First St (Wis 113)
University Ave @ Midvale Blvd

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Jericho Tpke and Indian Head Rd in Commack NY has a protected/permissive turn easbound and a protected only turn westbound

Eastbound traffic gets a green arrow when the parkway off ramp gets the arrow to turn eastbound onto Jericho. Once the parkway traffic is gone, the eastbound arrow is still green if there is traffic, then westbound traffic gets a green arrow (and a green light if there is no more eastbound left turners) 

[jwolfer]

Clay county FL CR220 at CR739.. WB 220 has dughouse while EB 220 has red arrow.  I think because of rhe curve in road.

739 was just widened to 4-5 lanes. And 220 is supposed to be widened by 2020. 

LGMS428

[Walleye2013]

There is a case of this at the intersection of Cedar Road and Brainard Road in Lyndhurst, Ohio.


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5012025,-81.4766478,73m/data=!3m1!1e3

[vdeane]

Formerly, NY 590 at Titus Ave; it was fully protected NB and fully permissive SB.  The intersection is now a roundabout and NY 590 has been truncated to end there.

[roadman65]

Florida has plenty of them. For years Sandlake/McCoy at Orange Avenue had it, now its changed where WB McCoy is fully protected to turn left.  There are others I have seen around still.