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Author Topic: Bridges With Ceilings:  (Read 3843 times)

In_Correct

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Bridges With Ceilings:
« on: November 19, 2016, 05:22:56 AM »

What types of bridges are for example Bridges Over Kanawha River And Ohio River? I want to call them Truss Bridges but I might be Wrong. They are much larger than Truss Bridges, but still much smaller than Cable Stayed Suspension Bridges such as Golden Gate or Chesapeake Bay Bridges.

They have a giant arch of some type in the middle of them, but also have beams that extend outward, in some cases over the entire length of the bridge.

I really like these beautiful and also hypnotic bridges.  :D

What are they and why aren't there more of them?  :)

Also I would like to point out Cheesepeake Bay Bridges were built at different time periods. One is a narrow two lane bridge and the other is a wider two lane bridge but what I consider to be a shoulder is actually an additional lane (a 3 lane bridge). Both of these bridges look different from each other. It seems that the older bridge looks stronger than the newer bridge. It has more beams. You might say that the older bridges are over-engineered but I think that if they have more beams, then they would last longer.

Which is another reason why I want to see more of these Bridges With Ceilings.
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NE2

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2016, 11:10:50 AM »

wat
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Roadgeek2500

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 12:39:35 PM »

Do you mean, like, double-decker bridges like the Gerard Point Bridge in Philadelphia?

sparker

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 02:45:02 PM »

I think he's referring to tied-arch bridges with the apex of the arch above the bridge deck -- and invariably some sort of cross-braces connecting the sides of the arch (the "ceiling", so to speak, at least from the viewpoint of someone traversing the deck).  However, without specific reference to particular structures, who can be certain?  The OP needs clarification. 
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hbelkins

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2016, 08:44:43 PM »

Three of the four Kanawha River bridges along I-64 are truss bridges -- the one at St. Albans, the one leading into downtown and the Chuck Yeager bridge at the beginning of the WV Turnpike.
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kphoger

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2016, 08:53:24 PM »

Based on the geographic landmarks mentioned in the OP, I think he's referring to bridges like these:

US-35 over the confluence of the Ohio and Kanawha

WV-34 over the Kanawha

US-33 over the Ohio

US-52 over the Ohio

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briantroutman

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2016, 09:18:53 PM »

With the mention of a “giant arch” and the Ohio River, I assumed something like this.

These would generally be referred to as tied-arch bridges as sparker pointed out. Other types of through arch bridges would present a similar driving experience as far as the motorist is concerned.

As to why there aren’t more, maybe a PE could chime in. In general, there are a number of criteria to be considered (cost, length of span, load requirements, serviceable life, terrain, etc.), and that will guide engineers toward some types and away from others. This manual from the FHWA goes into more detail on bridge type selection: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/steel/pubs/if12052/volume05.pdf
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kphoger

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2016, 09:26:05 PM »

With the mention of a “giant arch” and the Ohio River, I assumed something like this.

These would generally be referred to as tied-arch bridges as sparker pointed out. Other types of through arch bridges would present a similar driving experience as far as the motorist is concerned.

As to why there aren’t more, maybe a PE could chime in. In general, there are a number of criteria to be considered (cost, length of span, load requirements, serviceable life, terrain, etc.), and that will guide engineers toward some types and away from others. This manual from the FHWA goes into more detail on bridge type selection: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/steel/pubs/if12052/volume05.pdf

I mis-remembered that as being in a reply post, not the OP.  And so....
I-64 over the Ohio.
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In_Correct

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2016, 11:55:30 PM »

Yes, and also these. I finally found the name of one of them: The Chuck Yeager Bridge. It is two green bridges with a curved design in the middle and additional beams on the edges which continues even when crossing over land. (somewhat similar to the I-64 bridge.) The bridge in Pennsylvania looks just like a dark blue bridge in West Virginia.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kanawha+River/@38.3098865,-81.5611415,194m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x884ed14903b99d57:0xe819bee7c54084d5!8m2!3d38.480187!4d-81.6688493

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kanawha+River/@38.3103535,-81.5592315,3a,60y,248.8h,82.46t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sLNDtwGEdxXjra3X0Yf55_g!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x884ed14903b99d57:0xe819bee7c54084d5!8m2!3d38.480187!4d-81.6688493

I couldn't find a sufficient Street View of this bridge, but there are plenty of images on Google that clearly show the design of the bridge.

...

Another pointier bridge. The Ceiling continues even farther onto land more than The Chuck Yeager Bridge.


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kanawha+River/@38.4451666,-81.8427822,260m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x884ed14903b99d57:0xe819bee7c54084d5!8m2!3d38.480187!4d-81.6688493

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4458435,-81.8439472,3a,75y,107.7h,77.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRR-g83pu2TGDr1_6IqHKJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kanawha+River/@38.4426496,-81.8463786,466a,20y,45.49h,44.91t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x884ed14903b99d57:0xe819bee7c54084d5!8m2!3d38.480187!4d-81.6688493

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kanawha+River/@38.4442909,-81.8405048,3a,60y,299.15h,89.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_ALTyJblddS-DJaocwtabA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x884ed14903b99d57:0xe819bee7c54084d5!8m2!3d38.480187!4d-81.6688493

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4461189,-81.844548,3a,75y,310.08h,87.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skhARQ0nyTNbUO9w1jlOHJw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4463031,-81.8449504,3a,75y,139.46h,108.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6239C_wEZKQhxdR0mYm9Vw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4461362,-81.84337,3a,75y,185.7h,95.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0UVtkKJSJAKHhsDu8mAcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

...

The other bridge mentioned by kphoger is the U.S. 35 between West Virginia and Ohio. It is the pointiest of bridges, resembling a small cable stayed suspension bridge. But it is still a similar design.

A Concrete Truck driving on Concrete!!   :-P

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8328952,-82.1450964,3a,75y,282.9h,88.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbssCs8JbhfDQZimlHjbJmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.836925,-82.1518782,3a,75y,97.58h,87.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1she5-G9jTomQ7hPOESDb4sA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8287628,-82.1481072,665a,20y,44.85t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US

...

Two other nearby bridge designs is the dark blue bridge but the Ceiling isn't as long. This design is very common.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3529742,-81.6485598,307a,20y,41.65t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3548966,-81.6493333,3a,60y,61.65h,86.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK55FKYgV58VHmxvJCAsyTA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3539752,-81.6495804,3a,75y,25.03h,87.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6fcXp8OQUobAOmSyhfaJKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

...

Similar Bridge: (Patrick Street Bridge.)

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3641711,-81.6688594,235a,20y,353.41h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3644192,-81.6696712,3a,60y,11.22h,94.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srUStxVlzl4Qgel8VCduHmQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3673921,-81.6684574,3a,75y,149.83h,115.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfMPkYb1OUB5Vg3ILt5dtMg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US



...

And another pair of bridges has no Ceiling even though it crosses the Kanawha River. Why not?

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3524287,-81.7188281,1052a,20y,44.69t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3616524,-81.7208828,3a,89.2y,93.32h,91.33t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sq3BOU_89gb9-7HSADyk2aw!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US
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hbelkins

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 06:37:22 PM »

The Yeager Bridge is actually two different type bridges. The southbound bridge was part of the original two-lane West Virginia Turnpike. The northbound bridge was added when the turnpike was four-laned. The new bridge's design is not an exact copy of the old bridge. The age difference in the two bridges is noticeable both when driving across the bridges and when passing below them on US 60.
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TR69

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 08:35:53 AM »

Quote
And so....
I-64 over the Ohio.

And if you travel EB on the lower deck of the Sherman Minton Bridge (I-64 over the Ohio), you really do get a ceiling!
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In_Correct

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 03:45:12 AM »

According to Wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantilever_bridge That is the best description for most of the bridges I noticed. Also, it seems that these bridges are being replaced by various Suspension Bridges and Cable Stayed Bridges, and that U.S.A. is no longer building Cantilever Bridges. Other places still construct Cantilever bridges. But Abraham Lincoln Bridge is next to the John F. Kennedy Bridge is why I think that U.S.A. is phasing out the Cantilever Bridges. I think that is unfortunate some of these Cantilever Bridges are being replaced with what appears to be bridges that aren't as strong. The Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse For Example. I don't think Cable Stayed Bridges have the same risk but I still love Cantilever Bridges.
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Rothman

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 09:25:53 AM »

I think that is unfortunate some of these Cantilever Bridges are being replaced with what appears to be bridges that aren't as strong. The Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse For Example.

So...you think the current bridges, which have lasted nearly 57 years (1950 bridge) or 10 years (2007 bridge) respectively are weaker than the bridge that fell down after only four months? :D
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lepidopteran

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 12:15:04 PM »

For a description of cable-stayed bridges, see
http://www.newnybridge.com/staying-power-installing-the-new-stay-cable-system/

This is on the "New NY Bridge" site, which is all about the new Tappan Zee Bridge.
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In_Correct

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2017, 07:40:57 AM »

New Tacoma Narrows Bridges lasted that long because there was no wind.
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Rothman

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2017, 08:36:27 AM »

New Tacoma Narrows Bridges lasted that long because there was no wind.
Are you high?
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sparker

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2017, 11:47:22 PM »

New Tacoma Narrows Bridges lasted that long because there was no wind.

There was and is plenty of wind through the Narrows.  The 2nd iteration of the bridge, as well as its parallel span, featured design plans that were modified to account for the probability of winds of that nature occurring regularly.  In other words, the bridge engineers learned from their mistakes and applied it appropriately. 
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2017, 10:05:58 PM »

New Tacoma Narrows Bridges lasted that long because there was no wind.

Correct. Just like in the Simpsons movie, a gigantic globe was put over the town the bridge is located in, not only sealing off the bridge and the town from everything else, it also kept the wind away.
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In_Correct

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2017, 10:30:16 AM »

Okay so this proves that the reason why people want Cantilever Bridges to be replaced is because you think they are ugly and whether or not it is ugly determines which type of bridge is built?
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Rothman

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2017, 10:32:23 AM »

What?  No.

The truss bridges are more expensive to build and maintain.  That is all there is to it.
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Big John

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 12:10:42 PM »

^^ And are fracture critical, making them more prone to collapse.
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SteveG1988

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Re: Bridges With Ceilings:
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2017, 10:29:33 PM »

how about ceilings with bridges? Roof Truss ceilings
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