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Author Topic: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel  (Read 7094 times)

froggie

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2016, 07:26:12 AM »

That's because MPA probably didn't look at the NOAA nautical charts and NTMs (Notice to Mariners) for the Hampton Roads area...
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wdcrft63

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2016, 06:28:25 PM »

That's because MPA probably didn't look at the NOAA nautical charts and NTMs (Notice to Mariners) for the Hampton Roads area...
The HRBT and CBBT were designed during the Cold War. The reason we have tunnels rather than bridges is that the Navy didn't want bridges that some adversary might attack. My guess is that the tunnels were designed with the dimensions of warships in mind; no one could envision post-Panamax merchant ships at that time.
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davewiecking

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2016, 11:06:04 PM »

The Maryland Port Administration (MPA) seems to imply on their Maryland Manual Web page that they can handle Panamax and post-Panamax cargo ships.

Quoting from the webpage you linked: "Indeed, Baltimore is one of only three Eastern U.S. ports with a 50-foot (15.2 meters) shipping channel and a 50-foot container berth, allowing it to accomodate some of the largest container ships in the world. On July 19, 2016 (about a month after the expansion of the Panama Canal opened), a cargo-carrier from Taiwan was the first supersized container ship to reach Baltimore through the Panama Canal."

Is there a difference between "supersized container ship" and "Panamax (or post-Panamax) ship"? Surely the Taiwanese ship wasn't airlifted over the CBBT on its way from the Carribean to Baltimore, nor do I think they pushed some of the more buoyant shipping containers overboard, which were then towed separately to Norfolk? I'm sure it did have to time the tides properly.
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 11:19:09 PM »

From http://www.roadstothefuture.com/CBBT.html

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Two major shipping channels are crossed by the Bridge-Tunnel. The 5,738-foot-long Thimble Shoal Channel Tunnel crossed the southerly channel (for Hampton Roads ship traffic), and provided a 1,900-foot-wide ship channel with a 50-foot minimum depth, and a 2,500-foot-wide channel with a 40-foot minimum depth. The 5,450-foot-long Chesapeake Channel Tunnel crossed the northerly channel (for Baltimore ship traffic), and provided a 1,700-foot-wide channel with 50-foot depth, and a 2,300-foot-wide channel with a minimum 40-foot depth.
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Alps

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2016, 07:06:27 PM »

From http://maritime-connector.com/wiki/panamax/: draught is 49.9 feet. So 50 feet is scraping it closely. Makes me wonder if the ship was designed specifically with 50 feet in mind, maybe under the influence of the Navy.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 12:31:00 AM by Alps »
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ixnay

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2016, 09:02:04 PM »

From http://maritime-connector.com/wiki/panamax/: draught is 49.9 feet. So 50 feet is scraping it closely. Makes me wonder if the ship was designed specifically with 50 feet in mind, maybe under the influence of ACOE.

The Army Corps of Engineers?

ixnay
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2016, 10:13:49 PM »

From http://maritime-connector.com/wiki/panamax/: draught is 49.9 feet. So 50 feet is scraping it closely. Makes me wonder if the ship was designed specifically with 50 feet in mind, maybe under the influence of ACOE.

Maybe they were assuming that all of the ice in the Arctic and Antarctica would melt and make those tunnels "deeper?" 

And there are also high and low tide conditions.

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froggie

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2016, 10:45:54 PM »

Quote
And there are also high and low tide conditions.

There are, but this is why NOAA, the Navy, and the Coast Guard use water depths and clearances based on mean low tide.
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Alps

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2016, 12:31:06 AM »

From http://maritime-connector.com/wiki/panamax/: draught is 49.9 feet. So 50 feet is scraping it closely. Makes me wonder if the ship was designed specifically with 50 feet in mind, maybe under the influence of ACOE.

The Army Corps of Engineers?

ixnay
Fixed.
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74/171FAN

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2017, 07:03:32 AM »

I am unsure if this has happened before, but it is very sad that it has.  High winds seem to be the main factor in this one.

Via NBC12 (Richmond)'s website:Tractor-trailer blown off Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel killing driver

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froggie

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2017, 07:33:12 AM »

It's happened before on occasion, but it's very uncommon, and it's usually the result of some sort of crash or driver inattention.  Still, this is one reason why the CBBT has vehicle restrictions during high wind events.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2017, 04:35:42 PM »

It's happened before on occasion, but it's very uncommon, and it's usually the result of some sort of crash or driver inattention.  Still, this is one reason why the CBBT has vehicle restrictions during high wind events.

The CBBT used to market itself with the phrase "Go to Sea in Your Car," which was (and is) accurate - even in a windstorm with near-gale conditions (apparently the conditions before the crash were even worse, and the windspeeds may have been above well above what is considered gale-force winds).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:41:17 PM by cpzilliacus »
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2017, 04:40:15 PM »

Richmond.com (actually a Washington Post byline): Wind not seen as factor in fatal Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel truck crash, authorities say

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A truck driver who died Thursday after his tractor-trailer plunged off the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel on Virginia's Eastern Shore has been identified as a North Carolina man.

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Joseph Chen, 47, of Greenville, was pulled from the water after the crash by a U.S. Navy helicopter and was "unresponsive" at that time, according to Edward Spencer, the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel police chief. Chen was taken to a hospital, where he died, officials said.

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The truck went off the southbound side of the bridge before 12:30 p.m. at mile marker 15, officials said. Winds at the time were gusting in excess of 40 mph, but officials said they do not think that wind was a factor in the crash.

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"At this point I don't believe this is a wind issue," Spencer said, citing "evidence at the scene."
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2017, 03:02:56 AM »

The Virginian-Pilot: "17 miles of scary": CBBT is notorious among truckers, but police say wind isn't to blame in this fatal crash

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Police say driver error was the cause of an accident that sent a semi over the side of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel on Thursday. The trucks driver, Joseph Chen, was plucked from the water by a Navy helicopter but died on the way to the hospital.

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Wind had been widely speculated to be the cause of the accident. A storm that moved into the area Thursday morning brought powerful gusts out of the northeast. Chief Edward Spencer, head of the CBBTs police force, said wind cant be ruled out as a factor, but after interviewing witnesses and reconstructing the accident the bridge has no video cameras along its spans the preliminary investigation concluded that Chen went off the bridge while trying to pass another semi.

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According to police, he was traveling in the right lane of the southbound span, around the 15-mile marker, which is closer to the Eastern Shore side. A car was in the left lane. Another truck was ahead of Chen, in his lane.

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He went to pass the tractor-trailer, Spencer said. He cut over in front of passenger car, and once he got over in the left lane, he ran up on curb and through the guard rail.
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hbelkins

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2017, 11:58:20 AM »

^^^

There are things called brakes. The now-deceased driver could have used them to slow himself down until the passenger car he cut in front of had overtaken him, then he could have pulled out to pass the slower truck that was in his lane.
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DeaconG

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2017, 08:36:51 PM »

^^^

There are things called brakes. The now-deceased driver could have used them to slow himself down until the passenger car he cut in front of had overtaken him, then he could have pulled out to pass the slower truck that was in his lane.

Wait, you require him to use common sense? How can he get a Darwin Award like that?
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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2017, 04:54:47 AM »

show some respect guys...
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2017, 07:15:04 PM »

^^^

There are things called brakes. The now-deceased driver could have used them to slow himself down until the passenger car he cut in front of had overtaken him, then he could have pulled out to pass the slower truck that was in his lane.

Well-stated and I agree.

There's also this - IIRC, the posted limit across the CBBT is either 55 MPH or maybe 50 MPH in a spot or two (not sure about 50), except at the toll plazas (where all traffic, even with E-ZPass, must come to a complete stop).  It's a little over 19 miles one-way from either of the  entering toll plazas to the one on the other side of the crossing.   That is about 20 to 21 minutes to make it across at 55, if there's no congestion or other problems.

At 50 MPH, the crossing takes just under 23 minutes.

There are no signalized intersections or STOP signs, so we do not need to work about intersection delays.

IMO, this is relatively  short crossing to make, in spite of its unusual length.  Why not slow down a little?  Especially drivers of commercial vehicles? 

I also wonder if the CBBTD has considered NJTA-style variable speed limits?  Given that the crossing is not that long and is presumably "wired" to support them already, it might be a winner.

Some drivers are apparently not willing to let off on the gas, and end with a Virginia reckless driving ticket from the CBBTD's police force (details from WAVY-TV Channel 10 in a 2016 report here, including a video).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 08:11:37 PM by cpzilliacus »
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Alps

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2017, 08:41:05 PM »

show some respect guys...
I respect natural selection.
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ixnay

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2017, 06:21:46 AM »

Has anybody on this board crossed the CBBT *just* to stop at the gift shop/fishing pier?  I ask this because I am considering a vacation this summer involving that (and a couple of VA ES destinations), since the gift shop is closing this fall.

I imagine few people use the PA Tpk. or NJTP *just* to stop at a specific service plaza...

ixnay
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Alps

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2017, 06:49:27 AM »

Has anybody on this board crossed the CBBT *just* to stop at the gift shop/fishing pier?  I ask this because I am considering a vacation this summer involving that (and a couple of VA ES destinations), since the gift shop is closing this fall.

I imagine few people use the PA Tpk. or NJTP *just* to stop at a specific service plaza...

ixnay
Many people use the NJTP to stop at the Lombardi Plaza, because that's free to visit. Though some people actually do pay a toll to visit one of the other ones.
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froggie

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2017, 09:18:37 AM »

Quote
Has anybody on this board crossed the CBBT *just* to stop at the gift shop/fishing pier?

Many years ago, I did once.  Also happened to be stationed in Norfolk at the time.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2017, 09:26:08 AM »

Has anybody on this board crossed the CBBT *just* to stop at the gift shop/fishing pier?  I ask this because I am considering a vacation this summer involving that (and a couple of VA ES destinations), since the gift shop is closing this fall.

I imagine few people use the PA Tpk. or NJTP *just* to stop at a specific service plaza...

If you want  to visit, this is the summer season to do so.  Because of the Parallel Thimble Shoal Tunnel project, the gift shop and restaurant will be no more after September 2017.
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plain

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2017, 10:21:48 AM »

I sometimes go just to fish but that's hit or miss. Some days it's crowded which makes it hard to cast into the channel smdh toll gone to waste
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2017, 01:52:35 PM »

Just a reminder...

Baltimore Sun: Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel restaurant, gift shop and pier set to close

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Donna Brady stood behind the checkout counter at Virginia Originals and Chesapeake Grill, moving along the line quickly while answering questions about the future of the restaurant and gift shop. Its been a regular occurrence for the hostess.

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The Chesapeake Grill, a full-service restaurant, and Virginia Originals gift shop, which opened in 2010, is set to close for good Sept. 30.

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With every question about the closing, Brady said she feels an indescribable sadness. At first, she said, the questions were hard to answer, but now they are so frequent, she knows her spiel thoroughly without even having to think.

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(Customers) think were coming back and were not. A lot of people dont understand the reasoning why, Brady said.

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Brady has been watching the sunset at the bridge-tunnel travel stop for almost seven years. She joined the team when Chris and Kellson Savvides, two Virginia Beach restaurateurs, leased the space in 2010. The 14-year lease was voided after the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel Commission, which includes members from Newport News and Hampton, decided last year to expand the bridge-tunnel.
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