AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?  (Read 11562 times)

ColossalBlocks

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 372
  • Executive of the US Department of Redundancy Dept.

  • Age: -7982
  • Location: Thankfully not Arkansas anymore.
  • Last Login: October 19, 2017, 10:36:52 PM
I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« on: January 07, 2017, 12:06:04 PM »

I've noticed that I-41 runs concurrent with US-41 for it's entire length. Isn't that an AASHTO violation?
Logged


US Highways: 36, 49, 61, 412.

Interstates: 22, 24, 44, 55, 57, 59, 72, 74 (West).

SEWIGuy

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 795
  • Last Login: Today at 01:47:08 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2017, 12:11:01 PM »

I've noticed that I-41 runs concurrent with US-41 for it's entire length. Isn't that an AASHTO violation?


AASHTO approved both the I-41 number, and the US-41 relocation, at the same meeting in November 2012.  So my guess is no.

http://route.transportation.org/Documents/SCOH%20Report%2011-16-2012.pdf
Logged

Big John

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1416
  • Age: 50
  • Last Login: Today at 12:25:32 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 12:12:36 PM »

With the precedent of I-74 in North Carolina concurrent with US 74, it was allowed.
Logged

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6889
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 07:02:49 AM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 01:14:34 PM »

AASHTO once had a policy of trying to avoid US routes and Interstates in the same state, although even from the early days, there were some instances of this (US 24 and I-24 in IL, US 80 and I-80 in CA, etc.) It seems like in recent times AASHTO has acknowledged that the grid has gotten dense enough that some conflicts are unavoidable. Another recently added one is US 69 crossing the path of I-69.
Logged

english si

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2972
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Buckinghamshire, England
  • Last Login: Today at 01:28:17 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 01:29:08 PM »

And, unlike I-74 and US74, US41/I-41 is far less of a conflict: as they are entirely concurrent, the confusion of two routes with the same number that AASHTO sought to avoid doesn't exist. In fact it's less of a problem than I-69 and US69 merely intersecting, or even I-24 and US24 at opposite ends of Illinois.
Logged

SEWIGuy

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 795
  • Last Login: Today at 01:47:08 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2017, 01:38:41 PM »

Remember that WISDOT preferred either I-55 or I-57 (I can't remember which), but Illinois didn't want the extension. 
Logged

Big John

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1416
  • Age: 50
  • Last Login: Today at 12:25:32 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2017, 01:47:08 PM »

Remember that WISDOT preferred either I-55 or I-57 (I can't remember which), but Illinois didn't want the extension. 
It was I-55 this time.  I-57 was the preference for I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  Illinois killed both proposals.
Logged

LM117

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1025
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Danville, VA 👎
  • Last Login: Today at 07:20:12 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2017, 01:54:12 PM »

With the precedent of I-74 in North Carolina concurrent with US 74, it was allowed.

I-74 was designated by Congress. AASHTO had no choice but to approve it's concurrency with US-74.
Logged
"You forget a thousand things everyday. How about you make sure this is one of them?"--Michael De Santa, GTA V

peterj920

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 695
  • Location: Green Bay, WI
  • Last Login: October 19, 2017, 02:18:25 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 06:10:39 PM »

Remember that WISDOT preferred either I-55 or I-57 (I can't remember which), but Illinois didn't want the extension. 
It was I-55 this time.  I-57 was the preference for I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  Illinois killed both proposals.

I-55 was never considered by WISDOT.  There were municipalities along I-41 in the Fox Valley that wanted I-55.  The alternatives were I-41, I-47, I-594, I-694 with WISDOT preferring I-41 which was selected.  I-41 fits the grid right between I-39 and I-43. 
Logged

billtm

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 317
  • Age: 18
  • Location: West Lafayette, IN
  • Last Login: September 26, 2017, 11:36:24 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 08:04:37 PM »

What I really don't get is why it had to become an Interstate. What's wrong with keeping it US-41? It never crosses state lines anyways. I-43 is the faster and shorter route anyways, so having two interstates connecting the same two points is just confusing, IMO.
Logged

SEWIGuy

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 795
  • Last Login: Today at 01:47:08 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 08:10:41 PM »

What I really don't get is why it had to become an Interstate. What's wrong with keeping it US-41? It never crosses state lines anyways. I-43 is the faster and shorter route anyways, so having two interstates connecting the same two points is just confusing, IMO.


It does cross a state line.  (And I-43 doesn't).  And I-41 is shorter to Green Bay if you are going from the west side of the Milwaukee suburbs. 
Logged

peterj920

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 695
  • Location: Green Bay, WI
  • Last Login: October 19, 2017, 02:18:25 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2017, 09:24:52 PM »

What I really don't get is why it had to become an Interstate. What's wrong with keeping it US-41? It never crosses state lines anyways. I-43 is the faster and shorter route anyways, so having two interstates connecting the same two points is just confusing, IMO.

I-43 is the shorter route between Green Bay and Milwaukee, but a lot more people live along the I-41 corridor than the I-43 corridor.  Because of that, I-41 has more traffic than I-43 as I-41 is 6 lanes between Appleton and Oshkosh.  Appleton's metro area is almost as big as Green Bay and giving that area an interstate is why the designation was implemented.  The traffic is there and it was a freeway even before the I-41 designation. 
Logged

Revive 755

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3156
  • Last Login: October 17, 2017, 08:17:50 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 09:37:11 PM »

It does cross a state line.  (And I-43 doesn't).

That wouldn't be hard to fix; just add a short multiplex with I-39 and I-90 down to the US 51 interchange just over the Illinois border.  Have it implied that it might get extended over a future upgrade of the semi-expressway IL 251. [/sarcasm]

More seriously, at least I-43 does not need a long multiplex just to get near a state line.
Logged

billtm

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 317
  • Age: 18
  • Location: West Lafayette, IN
  • Last Login: September 26, 2017, 11:36:24 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 09:04:50 AM »

Oops, I guess it does cross a state line. :pan: But I still believe routes like US-41 should be kept as US highways until their reach becomes more significant than one state(in the east).
Logged

SEWIGuy

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 795
  • Last Login: Today at 01:47:08 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 09:58:51 AM »

Disagree.  I think if it is an interstate worthy highway, it should be labelled as such.  The system is "interstate."  That doesn't mean every highway has to be.
Logged

english si

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2972
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Buckinghamshire, England
  • Last Login: Today at 01:28:17 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 10:04:35 AM »

Gotta love the classic 'Interstates shouldn't be intrastate' nonsense - interstate refers to the network, not necessarily the routes. Appleton, etc is worthy of being on that network.

As for the state line issue, it's really I-94 piggybacking on the '41 route rather than I-41 piggybacking on I-94 - and has been since I-94 was rerouted via Chicago as the numbering was tweaked. IL wanting I-55 to end in Chicago has meant that this north-south freeway between Chicago and Milwaukee has strangely had an east-west number as its main one for 50 years. But no longer, at least in WI and the northernmost mile of IL anyway!
Logged

hbelkins

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10698
  • Celebrating another day that Hillary isn't prez.

  • Age: 55
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Last Login: Today at 12:11:27 PM
    • Millennium Highway
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 12:17:01 PM »

It should have been a three-digit route. Period. End of discussion.
Logged

SEWIGuy

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 795
  • Last Login: Today at 01:47:08 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 12:25:40 PM »

It should have been a three-digit route. Period. End of discussion.


No it shouldn't have.  Period.  End of discussion.
Logged

texaskdog

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2145
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Austin, TX
  • Last Login: October 19, 2017, 10:13:39 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2017, 12:33:46 PM »

If you cannot tell the difference between the black/white & red/blue shields there is no hope for you.
Logged

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2937
  • Last Login: Today at 11:57:36 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2017, 12:47:53 PM »

It should have been a three-digit route. Period. End of discussion.


No it shouldn't have.  Period.  End of discussion.

Yes, it should have.  Period.  End of discussion.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Interstate 69 Fan

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 176
  • I-14 got signed. Now let's get it on Google Maps.

  • Age: 2013
  • Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
  • Last Login: October 16, 2017, 01:22:52 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2017, 01:05:15 PM »

It should have been a three-digit route. Period. End of discussion.


No it shouldn't have.  Period.  End of discussion.

Yes, it should have.  Period.  End of discussion.
Let's not argue.
I-55 was proposed for what is now Interstate 41. Interstate 57 was I-43. Both proposals were killed by IDOT.
Your welcome.
Logged
Up to date on I-69, I-14, I-42, I-87, and I-11 construction. I also want I-97 extended south! :)

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13181
  • not a kook

  • Age: 9
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: Today at 10:12:13 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2017, 01:05:31 PM »

It should have been a zero-digit route.

from http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrew-turnbull/4524557785
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I stand with any member of any group who Trump hates. I will do my best to not make America hate again.

SEWIGuy

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 795
  • Last Login: Today at 01:47:08 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2017, 01:09:31 PM »

There are 19 2dis shorter than I-41.

Should I-66, I-19, I-97, I-83, I-22, I-4 and I-37 be 3dis as well? 
Logged

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2937
  • Last Login: Today at 11:57:36 AM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2017, 01:19:03 PM »

There are 19 2dis shorter than I-41.

Should I-66, I-19, I-97, I-83, I-22, I-4 and I-37 be 3dis as well? 

I-66, no.

I-19, possibly.

I-97, absolutely!  Been proposed many times on here.

I-83, heck no.

I-22, fine as is.

I-4, fine as is, doesn't come back and hit the same interstate like I-41 does with I-43.

I-37, possibly.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

billtm

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 317
  • Age: 18
  • Location: West Lafayette, IN
  • Last Login: September 26, 2017, 11:36:24 PM
Re: I-41, An AASHTO Violation?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2017, 01:25:42 PM »

There are 19 2dis shorter than I-41.

Should I-66, I-19, I-97, I-83, I-22, I-4 and I-37 be 3dis as well? 

I-97 definitely should not be an interstate. Tell me if I'm wrong, but the only highway on your list that is completely multiplexed is I-22. The fact that I-41 is multiplexed along its entire route is not right to me. I think I-22 is okay though because it shortens interstate travel distance considerably.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.