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[1995hoo]

My wife has a convention near St. Louis this October (the Hollywood Casino and Hotel in Maryland Heights, Missouri, to be precise). To my overall surprise, she is willing to drive out and back provided I agree to several other stops en route. Perhaps she realized since we drive to Florida all the time this wouldn't be so terribly different distance-wise, as the hotel is maybe 15 miles further from home than her sister's house.

I immediately noted the opportunities to (a) clinch I-64 since I haven't travelled any of it west of Clifton Forge but have gotten everything east of there and (b) knock two more states off my list of unvisited ones (Kentucky and Indiana). The I-64 bit would basically entail driving all of said route west of I-81, although I haven't decided whether it's to be the eastbound trip or the westbound trip via that route.

The trip in the other direction will be constrained by her desire to visit three friends she doesn't see often, one in St. Louis, one in Dayton, and one in Indianapolis. (The Indianapolis stop strikes me as an opportunity to go see the Speedway Museum.) She also wants to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, to which I agreed provided we also go to Canton to see the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I had tried to figure out an itinerary to go to the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto and clinch Route 401 in the process, but it's simply too far out of the way, and the latest reports of CBP hassling people about mobile phones at the border caused my wife to react quite negatively.

Assuming we visit all those stops westbound (using that direction solely for convenience simply because I find it easier to visualize it in my head going westbound), my thought is something like this:

(1) I-66 west to Front Royal, exit there to finish the last segment of VA-55 west to I-81 to connect to US-48 to Corridor H west to drive the newer portions that have opened since my last trip. Continue west on US-219. Undecided whether just to follow the future Corridor H route to I-79 near Weston or whether to cut northwest through Philippi with its covered bridge.

(2) Either way, then take Corridor D (US-50) west to I-77. I-77 north to Canton. Probably stop for the night around there. Next day, visit the football hall of fame, then on to Cleveland. Stop for the night and then visit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. (Am I estimating too much time for these activities? I've been to Cleveland one time, flew up there on a day trip in May 1998 for a job interview, so I have no feel for that area whatsoever.)

(3) Then drive down I-71 to Columbus and west on I-70 to Dayton. Visit her friend there. I can't think of anything interesting to see or do in Dayton unless I just want to go out and clinch I-675 or something. I'm sure we will have to stop at the cemetery on Dixie Drive where my wife's parents are buried.

(4) Continue west on I-70 to Indianapolis. Visit her friend there and go tour the Speedway.

(5) Then continue west on I-70 to the convention site near St. Louis. While she's at the convention I plan to tour the main sights in the city, the usual touristy stuff. We'll visit her friends there at some point.

(6) The trip the other way would be a pretty simple route of I-64 the entire way to I-81, then whatever route home sounds good at the time. We'll probably stop in Louisville because she went there for the same convention a few years ago and liked the city and said I should visit various places, though I don't remember what she recommended.

Long way of leading up to my questions:

(a) Anyone have any thoughts on the east- versus westbound aspect? I suppose one thought I had is that the I-64 part might be better westbound because of my overall dislike of, and boredom with, I-81 in Virginia—if we use Corridor H coming eastbound, we avoid the negative experience of I-81 coming at the end of the drive.

(b) Anything of particular interest I ought to try to see along the way? I note from the map it wouldn't be terribly difficult to use US-60 and US-19 to see the New River Gorge bridge, but I also note that doing that would probably mean sacrificing the I-64 clinch and that might be one of those annoying things that nags at me (sort of like how I have a missing piece of I-70 in Wheeling). I see there's also that piece of the Coalfields Expressway near Beckley, but since it doesn't go anywhere I doubt I'd go out of the way. As I say, I have never been to Kentucky at all, so I really have no idea what might be of interest out there. Some of the oddities like Kentucky Bend are probably too far out of the way.

(c) Clinches of I-70 or I-77 or I-71 are not in the cards at this time, so road-related detours and the like are probably more palatable on the "Cleveland/Dayton/Indianapolis leg" than on the "I-64 leg" if there's anything anyone can suggest.

Thanks in advance.

[hbelkins]

One thing that might be of interest in Dayton is Wright-Patterson AFB. There's a museum there I went to in my childhood.

As for road-related things, the Coalfields Expressway wouldn't be that much of a detour off I-64 to go out and see and then go back. As for the New River Gorge bridge, it's about a 30-mile drive from I-64. If you want to go back to continue your clinch of I-64, allow an hour for travel time to the bridge and back, plus however much time you spend at the visitors center. Allow about 45 minutes to an hour extra if you opt to drive Fayette Station Road (CR 82) down to the bottom of the gorge and back up on the other side.

[1995hoo]

Thanks for that. How much time would you estimate at the bridge visitors' center?

[hbelkins]

Thanks for that. How much time would you estimate at the bridge visitors' center?

There are three observation decks. Two of them are easily accessible and you could hit them in about 15 minutes, taking a few pictures at each. There's another one that's a long way down, accessible by stairs, that I've never visited because I'd never make it back up given the shape I'm in. I don't know how long it would take to go down, take pictures and climb back up. There's a film that plays at the visitors center sometimes but I haven't seen it so I don't know how long it would last. You might want to check out their website (I'm sure they have one) to see.

[1995hoo]

Thanks. Lots of steps mean Ms1995hoo wouldn't go to that third one, so I need not worry about that one!

[ysuindy]

Its been a few years since I was at the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but I think if you spend the night in Canton, see the Hall of Fame and drive to Cleveland you should have time to explore a bit of downtown Cleveland that evening.  Check out the various restaurants on East 4th Street.  Without knowing when in October you are travelling, I hope you encounter some post-season baseball in downtown Cleveland.

The museum at Wright Patterson is very good.  Again, several years since I've been there, but I continue to read good things about it.   US 40 north of Dayton crosses the Englewood Dam of the Great Miami River.  It is a large earthen dam.  Something different to drive across.

The museum at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is definitely worth your time.  You can also take a bus tour around the track.  Main Street in Speedway has opened several interesting restaurants over the past couple of years.

[1995hoo]

Thanks for the tips. I've been to the Air Force museum the last time I was in Dayton and I've been across the dam twice. My wife grew up in the area after immigrating (legally!) and she says some of the neighborhood kids used to sled down the dam but that she was too chicken. I can't say as I'd blame her for that, not to mention it seems like it would have been a mega-hassle to tromp back up that thing pulling a sled. I may have to think about going to the Air Force museum again to see the larger aircraft parked away from the main museum since I didn't get to see those last time.

My overall impression of Dayton is that it's in many ways a dying city. Kind of too bad. It seems like there's a rich history there and we saw a lot of interesting things at Carillon Park on our last trip.

I don't know our travel dates yet. My wife has the dates for her conference, but we haven't made reservations yet because I want to wait a bit longer to see what my work calendar looks like.

[1995hoo]

Bumping an old per thread to say thanks again for the past advice and to ask for two further sets of thoughts.

Our itinerary is set for St. Louis next month, driving out via I-64 with a side trip to the New River Gorge Bridge and overnight stops in Charleston and Louisville. My wife's convention is west of St. Louis proper in Maryland Heights and we will be there three full days (arriving on a Wednesday afternoon, leaving on the following Sunday). On the trip home, we're heading up to Indianapolis and spending one night at a hotel and one night visiting a friend, then to Dayton for one night to visit another friend, then to Canton, where we will stay two nights at a vineyard with a day trip to Cleveland on Thursday. Then home on Friday.

Two questions, if anyone has any advice to give:

(1) What should we expect from St. Louis traffic? The hotel is the Hollywood Casino and Hotel in Maryland Heights. On the way out I plan to arrive via I-64 as part of my  effort to clinch said route on this trip, but if the traffic is likely to be horrible on a Wednesday afternoon I could go some other way and finish the clinch on Saturday while Ms1995hoo is at her meetings. Along the same lines, for sightseeing purposes are we better off driving into the city or parking at the airport and taking mass transit?

(2) This may be the bigger question: Advice on the route home from Canton. I have in mind to pass through Philippi, West Virginia, with its covered bridge, then track down to Elkins to pick up the future route of Corridor H as well as the newer part of said route's completed segment on which we have not yet travelled. Looking at the map, I'm torn on how to get down to Philippi. I could take I-77 down to Parkersburg (never used that road), then across US-50 past Clarksburg (used that route in 2012 as far as I-79—great road, nobody on it), and then cut southeast. Or I could head to Wheeling, pick up the piece of I-70 I'm missing there due to using I-470 on our previous pass through the area, and then head down US-250. (Edited to add: Another possibility might be US-30 to the very tip of the northern panhandle, then down WV-2 to Wheeling.) My gut tells me US-250 could be an interesting trip but also a very frustrating trip, depending on what the road is like. Clinches are not a concern as to that day because I'm missing other segments of pretty much any route we would take down to the Elkins area.

Thanks in advance.

[hbelkins]

I would not recommend taking US 250 between Moundsville and Fairmont. It's very slow, curvy and hilly to mountainous. I drove it years ago and never planned to again, but ended up doing much of the route again out of necessity during a recent quest to clinch West Virginia's primary route system. I'd suggest just staying on I-70 to I-79 down to Fairmont.

And unless you're dying to drive US 48/US 219 between Elkins and Davis through Parsons, no need to go all the way down to Elkins. Take WV 38, which splits from US 250 just south of Phillipi, follow it to WV 72, then go south a few miles to Parsons to pick up US 48/219. It's a good road and isn't as out of the way as going all the way to Elkins and then back north.

[1995hoo]

HB, thanks. Wonder if I could pick your brain for a further thought (if you know): What's the best route from Clarksburg down to Philippi, assuming we were coming east from Parkersburg on US-50? I'm looking at Google Maps while I listen to online CLE and I see the two most obvious routes are WV-76 from Bridgeport, reconnecting to US-250 north of Philippi, or Routes 23/9 and 7 further to the south. Neither route looks terrible with some spot-checks on Street View, but I know those local roads in West Virginia can be a bit hit-or-miss.

(I haven't completely ruled out the idea of US-250 from Wheeling down to I-79, even though I'm leaning against it. Reason for considering it is mainly because we're taking my wife's new car and it might be fun to see how the AWD system and the paddle shifters are in the twisties.)

[hbelkins]

https://goo.gl/maps/om7wLkRxRp32

I don't know anything about the county routes you listed, but given the option of WV 76 or the second suggestion Google Maps gives, using WV 20 and WV 57 to connect with US 119 near Phillipi, I'd choose the latter. I drove both WV 57 and WV 76 a few weeks ago, and much prefer the latter route. I ran Bridgeport to Phillipi on Google, which involved a little backtracking on US 50 west. If you're coming across Corridor D (US 50) from Parkersburg, then it'll be even shorter and faster. US 50 through Bridgeport can be a MAJOR slowdown at times, believe it or not.

Your wife's new car will get a workout on US 219 between Parsons and Davis/Thomas, so no need to torture yourself with US 250.

[02 Park Ave]

Regarding sightseeing, I believe that there is a bison ranch along I-70 in Ohio.

[1995hoo]

Thanks again! Sounds like it'll probably be 20 and 57, then (unless something very weird happens in the next 11 days). I've been leaning towards coming down I-77 from Canton to Parkersburg simply to use this trip to knock off most of the remainder of I-77, although I'll still have the segments from Parkersburg to Charleston and from I-64 to I-81 unclinched. But what can you do. One reason the US-250 option was still a possibility was that I had thought about entering West Virginia up at the tip of the northern panhandle and coming down WV-2 to Wheeling, simply for the sake of going through utterly new territory I doubt I would ever visit otherwise. But in the scheme of things I think I'm more interested in knocking off more of the Interstate and getting home at a reasonable time that Friday night since we are going over to my parents' for dinner that Saturday.

Appreciate the assistance. Might be several days after I get home before I post any pictures simply because I still haven't gotten around to replacing my Photobucket account, although the Tapatalk app lets me put photos in my posts.

BTW....at this time tomorrow night we should be in Charleston. Got any restaurant tips? I see there is a Mexican place (Mi Cocina De Amor) within walking distance of the hotel, although our most recent experience with a local non-chain Mexican place was in Duncan, SC, last year and was so bad Ms1995hoo may summarily veto this one just based on the memory. The AAA book doesn't list all that many places in Charleston.

[hbelkins]

If you do decide to venture into the northern panhandle area, OH 7 is a much faster route along the river than is WV 2. After you get off the US 250/WV 2 freeway, it seems like WV 2 passes through a zillion small towns that slow you down.

As for a recommendation in Charleston, there's a restaurant that one of my colleagues dearly loves. (She lives in Pikeville and is originally from Logan, WV, so she's very familiar with Charleston). She and some of my other fellow PIOs ate there last year when we were at the AASHTO Subcommittee on Transportation Communications conference that was held at the Marriott. It was located in what looks to otherwise be an industrial or warehouse area. I didn't go with them. I'd gotten knocked out of my Five Guys fix because the location in the mall across the street closed early on Sunday night, and I needed some down time, so I just walked over there the night they went to this place. I'm sure SP Cook knows exactly where I'm talking about but I'm drawing a blank on both name and type of restaurant. It may be Italian but I'm not positive.

[1995hoo]

We ultimately went to the Bluegrass Kitchen. An article in the newspaper earlier this summer recommended it, as did the guy at the hotel desk, as did various online sources, so we tried it and it was quite good.

The Italian place the guy at the desk recommended, Joe Fazio's, is closed Mondays, so no option there.

[Rothman]

Although OH 7 is faster, I took my kids on a trip along the river where we crossed it wherever necessary to clinch counties on either side.  Even though it was just driving and they were quite young, they still remember that trip fondly.

[kphoger]

(1) What should we expect from St. Louis traffic?

Sucks, sucks, sucks during rush hour.  Not bad at other times of the day.

[1995hoo]

(1) What should we expect from St. Louis traffic?

Sucks, sucks, sucks during rush hour.  Not bad at other times of the day.

Thanks. That'll be important when we get there tomorrow. Going to the hotel to check in, but then we're meeting friends for dinner and they live back closer to downtown. That gives me a sense for how to plan.

We are in HB's favorite city in Kentucky (Louisville). If I owned adidas stuff, I would have worn all of it.

I-64 was a really nice drive from the state line to I-75 (hideous industry as you enter Kentucky notwithstanding). Not especially pleasant from Lexington to here.

[kphoger]

I haven't used the old 64/55 bridge across the Mississippi since the Stan Span was built, but at least back then the bridge was slow going at all times of day.  And, honestly, I haven't even driven the Stan Span but one time since it opened, and that was on a Sunday evening.  My preferred routing to Kentucky avoids STL altogether, using US-60 across Missouri towards Paducah.

[hbelkins]

(1) What should we expect from St. Louis traffic?

Sucks, sucks, sucks during rush hour.  Not bad at other times of the day.

Thanks. That'll be important when we get there tomorrow. Going to the hotel to check in, but then we're meeting friends for dinner and they live back closer to downtown. That gives me a sense for how to plan.

We are in HB's favorite city in Kentucky (Louisville). If I owned adidas stuff, I would have worn all of it.

I-64 was a really nice drive from the state line to I-75 (hideous industry as you enter Kentucky notwithstanding). Not especially pleasant from Lexington to here.

Ha. Adidas has been my favorite shoe since I was in high school, 40 years ago. They always felt better on my feet than any other brand (Converse was popular when I was younger, then Nike burst onto the scene). I actually have an Adidas shirt on today, but it bears no collegiate logo.

That "hideous industry" is the old Ashland Oil refinery that's been there all my life. The section from Frankfort to just outside Louisville is pretty much the oldest interstate in the state. It's had some improvements in Shelby and Jefferson counties. The last two sections to open were from the US 60 exit near the Boyd/Carter line to Grayson (we always had to take US 60 from Grayson anytime we went to see relatives in West Virginia) and from I-75 in Lexington to US 60 in Frankfort (that segment opened in 1971.)

[1995hoo]

(1) What should we expect from St. Louis traffic?

Sucks, sucks, sucks during rush hour.  Not bad at other times of the day.

Thanks. That'll be important when we get there tomorrow. Going to the hotel to check in, but then we're meeting friends for dinner and they live back closer to downtown. That gives me a sense for how to plan.

We are in HB's favorite city in Kentucky (Louisville). If I owned adidas stuff, I would have worn all of it.

I-64 was a really nice drive from the state line to I-75 (hideous industry as you enter Kentucky notwithstanding). Not especially pleasant from Lexington to here.

Ha. Adidas has been my favorite shoe since I was in high school, 40 years ago. They always felt better on my feet than any other brand (Converse was popular when I was younger, then Nike burst onto the scene). I actually have an Adidas shirt on today, but it bears no collegiate logo.

....

Yeah, my comment was more because one Richard A. Pitino used to be an adidas guy but probably isn't feeling so great about them these days.....

[1995hoo]

What's the story on the I-70 express lanes? Used them last night on our way to meet friends for dinner. Looks like it's meant to be reversible but isn't used that way?

[kphoger]

No, they haven't actually been reversed in years.

[1995hoo]

No, they haven't actually been reversed in years.

Any idea why? Not enough traffic demand the other way, logistical issues, something else? There were obvious pavement markings for westbound operations.

My wife's main business stuff is Saturday, so I think that'll be the day to take an hour to go clinch the last 20 miles of I-64.

[kphoger]

According to a news article I found, it's because downtown isn't really an employment center anymore, so there's not as much of a one-way commute as there used to be.  They determined it actually helps traffic flow more to keep the lanes as eastbound-only express lanes than reversing them would.