I 490 Bridge Replacements

[webny99]

Is anyone following the Marsh Road/I-490 bridge replacement project near Rochester?

I would love to see a consistent six lanes from downtown to the thruway, but can't tell yet whether the new bridge here will be wide enough to accomadate six lanes.

[RobbieL2415]

Is there even a demand for a third lane out near Victor?  Every time I visit family out in Rochester the stretch West of NY 531 moves well even during peak times. 

[cl94]

I-490 could definitely use 6 lanes to Victor. When they were building the thing, planners expected most of the development to be west of Rochester, hence why I-490 takes its sweet time getting down to the Thruway and it has the ROW for 6 lanes until Genesee County. West of 531 has no traffic whatsoever. East of the city is another matter entirely. The 4-lane section is slow.

To answer your question, no widening at this time. 4 other structures would need to be replaced. Every rebuilt bridge can carry 6 lanes, but the railroad bridge is the major choke point.

[RobbieL2415]

Is there even a demand for a third lane out near Victor?  Every time I visit family out in Rochester the stretch West of NY 531 moves well even during peak times.

Are you talking about the same Victor I am?
West of 531 is a 2 lane road... but as far as I 490, between Exit 25 and Exit 27 could imo use another lane in each direction. Not usually stopped, but hard to move at speed!

Oohhh that Victor.  Then yes, it definitely could use six lanes.

I meant Le Roy but got the locations mixed up.

[vdeane]

I drive over that bridge multiple times a year, so I could say that I'm following it.  I noticed that they put in a work zone speed limit after going a whole year without one.

I recall hearing that it was in the plans for that to be widened, but that was years ago.  I doubt it's in the near-term plans right now.

[webny99]

Bump warning!  Work has begun on the I-490 bridge replacements at Kreag Rd and the Erie Canal. There will be construction updates and traffic impacts to discuss for at least the next two construction seasons, so figured I would shift the conversation here for easy reference.

I drove through the work zone for the first time just before 6PM tonight, and I guess you could say I am now expecting the worst on a number of fronts.

1) The single lane zone is surprisingly long. It's over a mile total, extending from Exit 27 well past the canal bridge to the last curve before Exit 26. So that makes it clear: when eastbound shifts to a single lane next week, Exit 26 is going have *major* issues. It was almost backed up onto the mainline today just from Exit 27 being closed, and that's with clear conditions on I-490 itself! At this point, I'm expecting the eastbound backups to extend at least to Exit 25 because of Exit 26.

2) The westbound lane drop is pretty far back, well before Exit 27 (which is still open). So people are going right past the "MERGE HERE / TAKE TURNS" sign and cutting in from the exit only lane, despite the solid white line. I saw it a couple of times today and there wasn't even much of a backup, so it's going to be a major issue. NYSDOT really, really needs to install delineators here ASAP for the duration of the project -- not sure if this is something vdeane or Rothman or anyone else with NYSDOT ties could drop a bug in someone's ear about? If it is, I would really appreciate it, because there's going to be recurring accidents and road rage issues here if this continues.

3) Westbound traffic is using what used to be the shoulder through most of the work zone, and the pavement quality is pretty bad. And that slows everyone down even more. Between the narrow lane and the bumps and potholes, you'd be lucky to get up to 55 mph anywhere in the work zone.

4) I was silly to think traffic in the Bushnells area is going to go down 96 to turn around and get on I-490 just to sit in that mess. I actually tried that myself, and (A) there was barely enough room for my mid-size truck to U-turn at Woodcliff, much less a larger vehicle, and (B) even with not much of a backup on I-490, it was still stop-and-go and took at least 3 minutes longer than usual. So finding an alternate route up to Exit 26 is unfortunately going to be the best option, even with traffic as it is in the Basin.

5) Silver lining: the work zone is such a bottleneck that congestion should be less of an issue elsewhere on I-490 West, especially around Exit 21. There simply won't be enough traffic hitting all at once to cause the usual issues approaching the ramps to 590. And for I-490 East, we'll get a season of no backups at the Thruway on-ramp. That'll be nice.

[webny99]

And so it begins...

[RobbieL2415]

I guess if I intend to visit my extended family in Rochester this summer, I should plan on getting in and out of the area proper via I-390.

[vdeane]

To be fair, Google was reporting a crash this morning (it didn't show up with just the traffic layer but did if you got directions).  But given the reports of the pavement condition, I'm wondering if diverting will be necessary anyways because I'm worried that I'll get flat tires from trying to drive though there.

Why does the work zone need to be so long and restrictive anyways?  There's ample room on the westbound side to carry one lane for each direction without shoving traffic onto the shoulder.  And why extend it far away from the bridges being worked on?  The Thruway only needs the lanes to be shifted at the bridges being worked on, not long stretches in either directions, and they need to close 1 carriageway, not 1.5.

[webny99]

Just FYI the screenshot above was from around 4PM this afternoon, although there were major issues this morning too.

Why does the work zone need to be so long and restrictive anyways?  There's ample room on the westbound side to carry one lane for each direction without shoving traffic onto the shoulder.  And why extend it far away from the bridges being worked on?

I wish I knew the answer to that. My only guess is that they are going to be using a segment of the eastbound roadway for staging, since both sides of the highway are steeply graded and heavily wooded in that area.

I guess if I intend to visit my extended family in Rochester this summer, I should plan on getting in and out of the area proper via I-390.

That would be wise if heading to the west side of town, especially around rush hours. The problem is that due to employers in the Basin, the Mall area, and Victor, there's a decent amount of rush hour traffic in both directions, so everything tends to get backed up around the same times.

[webny99]

I drove through the project area last Saturday and have a truly unbelievable development to report... after all my stewing about Exit 26, none of it even matters because the eastbound lane drop is BEFORE Exit 26. WHAT!?!?!? This *objective* insanity prompted an immediate email from me to NYSDOT through the project webpage:


I am writing to express my concern regarding the untenable work zone setup on I-490 East as part of the Kreag Rd/Erie Canal bridge replacements. The Eastbound merge to a single lane occurs BEFORE Exit 26, which is frustrating and confusing because it forces all traffic exiting at Exit 26 to sit in the backup when this is not necessary, since the work zone crossover doesn't occur until past Exit 26. A significant percentage of I-490 Eastbound traffic is exiting at Exit 26 (especially during the afternoon rush hour), so this configuration significantly increases the length of the backups and forces more traffic to use Exit 25, adding to traffic on Fairport Rd, Marsh Rd, and in the Village of Pittsford. I strongly recommend a reconfiguration that maintains two lanes up to Exit 26, either one lane for I-490 and one lane for Exit 26, or two lanes for I-490 that merge together once past Exit 26. The would significantly improve traffic flow, reduce the length of the backups, and reduce congestion on other roads in the area. Thanks for your consideration to this matter.

Nothing has come of it yet. Probably nothing will, but I figured it was worth a shot.

2) The westbound lane drop is pretty far back, well before Exit 27 (which is still open). So people are going right past the "MERGE HERE / TAKE TURNS" sign and cutting in from the exit only lane, despite the solid white line. I saw it a couple of times today and there wasn't even much of a backup, so it's going to be a major issue. NYSDOT really, really needs to install delineators here ASAP for the duration of the project -- not sure if this is something vdeane or Rothman or anyone else with NYSDOT ties could drop a bug in someone's ear about? If it is, I would really appreciate it, because there's going to be recurring accidents and road rage issues here if this continues.

An update on this: a whole bunch of "RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT" signs have been added on I-490 WB between Exit 28 and Exit 27. No delineators, but you definitely couldn't miss all the signage, so you'd at least look pretty stupid for trying to cut in at the gore point. Not my preference, but it definitely seems to have reduced the problem.

[Rothman]

I drove through the project area last Saturday and have a truly unbelievable development to report... after all my stewing about Exit 26, none of it even matters because the eastbound lane drop is BEFORE Exit 26. WHAT!?!?!? This *objective* insanity prompted an immediate email from me to NYSDOT through the project webpage:


I am writing to express my concern regarding the untenable work zone setup on I-490 East as part of the Kreag Rd/Erie Canal bridge replacements. The Eastbound merge to a single lane occurs BEFORE Exit 26, which is frustrating and confusing because it forces all traffic exiting at Exit 26 to sit in the backup when this is not necessary, since the work zone crossover doesn't occur until past Exit 26. A significant percentage of I-490 Eastbound traffic is exiting at Exit 26 (especially during the afternoon rush hour), so this configuration significantly increases the length of the backups and forces more traffic to use Exit 25, adding to traffic on Fairport Rd, Marsh Rd, and in the Village of Pittsford. I strongly recommend a reconfiguration that maintains two lanes up to Exit 26, either one lane for I-490 and one lane for Exit 26, or two lanes for I-490 that merge together once past Exit 26. The would significantly improve traffic flow, reduce the length of the backups, and reduce congestion on other roads in the area. Thanks for your consideration to this matter.

Nothing has come of it yet. Probably nothing will, but I figured it was worth a shot.

I anticipate the response will be that the merge was moved back for safety reasons.

[webny99]

Nothing has come of it yet. Probably nothing will, but I figured it was worth a shot.

I anticipate the response will be that the merge was moved back for safety reasons.

What are the safety reasons, though? The crossover is far enough past the Exit 26 on-ramp that I can't see it being even the slightest issue to maintain two lanes. In fact the right lane emptying out at Exit 26 but then accommodating the entering traffic, would theoretically only serve to smooth out the merge.

[vdeane]

Yikes.  It's especially jarring because, if this were a Thruway project, it would probably be a lane shift that would happen around here, not more than a mile before the bridge.

Honestly, I'm thinking that the difference in how these bridges are being handled vs. how Marsh Road was handled comes down to the fact that Marsh Road was done under Cuomo's "Drivers First" mandate while these aren't.

(personal opinion)

[vdeane]

Some observations:
-The shoulder thing is less extreme than I was imagining.  Based on webny99's description, I was assuming something like the right lane on a Thruway lane shift; instead, it seemed more like a piece of the shoulder and mostly the main travel lane.  I was also picturing pavement that was falling apart and full of holes; instead, it was mostly fine, even though not quite smooth on the edges (especially around the bridge and shifts).  The shift at exit 27, however, did go into the full shoulder more (IIRC it actually went across the gore area into the acceleration lane for the WB on ramp) and preserved the rumble strips, which reminded me of Illinois.
-The zipper merge doesn't seem to be helping much.  While the signs to use two lanes and stay in lane to the merge point are successful at preventing people from early merging, they aren't very successful at getting people to actually use both lanes heading west.  The middle lane was a line of stopped cars while the left lane was empty; it seems that instead of replacing early merging with late merging, it instead replaced it with even earlier merging.  The other direction was the opposite extreme; both lanes were full and traffic was moving so slow that I could clearly see people's hub caps for more than a mile (the entire distance from the regular lane drop past exit 25 to the shift after 26).
-Getting on at exit 26 heading east isn't a good way to avoid the congestion as traffic remains very slow past the merge point heading east until the shift.
-While the speed limit is posted at 55, 40 is the actual operating speed here.

[webny99]

-Getting on at exit 26 heading east isn't a good way to avoid the congestion as traffic remains very slow past the merge point heading east until the shift.

Yep. And this is self-fulfilling. The only way that's even possible is because so much Exit 26/27 traffic has shifted to using Exit 25, or in some cases even I-590 Exit 2 (rush hour traffic on Clover St has gotten much worse since the start of this project, especially southbound), that the traffic actually taking Exit 26 is considerably lighter than usual. Plus the traffic entering at Exit 26 is considerably heavier than usual due to those attempting bypass the worst of the congestion, so the ratio of exiting to entering traffic is approaching 1:1. That's completely unheard of here: it's usually at least 3:1.

[webny99]

fun fact: traffic impacts on the Twin Bridges similar to what we might have with this project are the reason Cuomo made Driver's First in the first place).

Well, the poor timing of NY 250 in Fairport also being closed this construction season means that comparisons to the Twin Bridges might not be much of a hyperbole after all.

Between these two projects, there are major traffic impacts for any Rochester-area commuters crossing the canal or CS&X rail line east of Clover St. In Pittsford village, traffic has been atrocious with spillover from the backups on I-490, and in Fairport village, all NY 250 traffic is now forced to use Turk Hill Road (which is extremely busy already) or Baird Rd (which has a one-lane underpass at the rail crossing).

As a result, Exits 23 through 25 on I-490 EB are all noticeably busier than usual. NY 31F is so bad at rush hour with traffic cutting over to Washington St/Marsh Rd/Jefferson Ave, that NY 441 to Linden Ave to Whitney Rd has become the default bypass for the usual NY 31F traffic... which then makes the Baird Rd one-lane crossing even worse... and there is so much right-turning traffic from NY 31F onto Baird to get around the NY 250 closure that the left turn from NY 31F to Baird also backs up horribly. The left turn from Marsh Rd to NY 31 is also prone to creating long backups, sometimes all the way past Golf Ave, which is well over a mile.

My recommendation for through traffic on I-490 EB would be to stay on until Exit 25, head east on NY 31F, stay left until Marsh Rd, then stay right until Baird Rd, then take Jefferson Ave south to Ayrault, take a left for the quick jog over the canal, then head south/west on Kreag and take that back to NY 96 and re-enter I-490 at Exit 27. It's not ideal, but it's much better than dealing with the village of Pittsford or Marsh Rd. And fortunately, NY 96 NB backs up so bad entering the Basin that someone will usually wave traffic through to access the I-490 on-ramp.

My recommendation for through traffic on I-490 WB, meanwhile, would be to just stick it out through the work zone. Exit 27 feeds right into a traffic nightmare in the Basin, and traffic would have to get much worse than I've ever seen it to even consider using Exit 29.

[webny99]

Took the Thruway EB from 46 to 45 yesterday afternoon and found traffic on that stretch, especially entering at 46, to be quite heavy. No doubt there's some added traffic detouring down to Henrietta to get around the backups on I-490.

The zipper merge doesn't seem to be helping much.  While the signs to use two lanes and stay in lane to the merge point are successful at preventing people from early merging, they aren't very successful at getting people to actually use both lanes heading west.  The middle lane was a line of stopped cars while the left lane was empty; it seems that instead of replacing early merging with late merging, it instead replaced it with even earlier merging.  The other direction was the opposite extreme; both lanes were full and traffic was moving so slow that I could clearly see people's hub caps for more than a mile (the entire distance from the regular lane drop past exit 25 to the shift after 26).

I also drove through the work zone WB again yesterday and I agree with this assessment... ironically, except for the first sentence. I think the truth of all of this means that the zipper merge is helping. WB, it allows those willing to use the left lane to bypass the worst of the backup. EB, it works exactly as intended to reduce the total length of the backup.

[vdeane]

I also drove through the work zone WB again yesterday and I agree with this assessment... ironically, except for the first sentence. I think the truth of all of this means that the zipper merge is helping. WB, it allows those willing to use the left lane to bypass the worst of the backup. EB, it works exactly as intended to reduce the total length of the backup.

I can drive in the lane that's ending and then merge at the end whether the sign says to zipper merge or not (except for Oklahoma, which apparently mandates early merging by law).  And the EB backup seems to be about what it was when they were preparing for this last year, which didn't have the zipper merge signage (but also wasn't 24/7).

Incidentally, my "skip two family gatherings" comment seems to have come true.  Memorial Day didn't happen since there was a wedding just a few days later, and now it's looking like July 4 won't either because of when the family picnic is going to be (which got another last-minute move).

[webny99]

I can drive in the lane that's ending and then merge at the end whether the sign says to zipper merge or not (except for Oklahoma, which apparently mandates early merging by law).

Sure you can, but it's much less stressful to do so when you're just explicitly following the signage. When early merging is the norm, there's a much greater risk of getting into road rage, and finding a spot to force your way in is completely arbitrary, which makes traffic flow even more inconsistent in the "thru" lane.

Also, I think a big part of the WB imbalance is that traffic in the center lane has to accommodate both zipper mergers and traffic entering from Exit 28. To compensate for Exit 28 traffic, which is quite heavy in the afternoon rush, you'd need something like 70-75% of existing traffic to use the left lane, but drivers aren't intuitive enough to figure that out.

And the EB backup seems to be about what it was when they were preparing for this last year, which didn't have the zipper merge signage (but also wasn't 24/7).

As I recall, the work last year was (a) mostly east (south) of Exit 26 and (b) mostly done during off-peak hours, so there would have been considerably less total volume in those backups.

The fact that EB backups haven't been worse is a testament to the zipper working and the local road network handling an underrated amount of rush hour traffic. It's impressive how much busier Exits 23-25 are during afternoon rush hour since the start of this, to the point where the right lane is notably more congested than usual from 590 to Exit 24.