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Author Topic: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma  (Read 6605 times)

I-39

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US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma
« on: June 10, 2017, 06:46:20 PM »

Here is a place to discuss any improvements along US 69 in Oklahoma, moving it out of my previous post about the US 69 freeway in Kansas.

I wonder why Oklahoma isn't taking this more seriously if this is such as heavily used route?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 10:48:07 PM by I-39 »
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Scott5114

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2017, 02:57:16 AM »

Most of us take proper capitalization seriously too, but OkDOT doesn't, so why should we assume anything else we consider important matters to them?
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Road Hog

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2017, 03:35:22 AM »

Not happening. The end.
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Bobby5280

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2017, 06:41:33 PM »

At any rate, upgrading US-69 in Oklahoma to Interstate quality from the Red River to Big Cabin is a far more justifiable project than doing an Interstate quality upgrade of US-69 in Kansas from Kansas City down to I-44. The latter project has I-49 running parallel to it not very far to the East. The segment of US-69 in Oklahoma in question has no parallel Interstate highway within close proximity.

Perhaps if the toll gates were removed from I-44 a bunch of truck traffic might get off US-69 and then use I-35 and I-44 instead. But removing the toll gates is not likely to happen since so many Oklahoma residents believe roads are funded with fairy dust, prayer and other forms of wishful thinking rather than actual money. They're not going to stand for a big fuel tax increase to offset removal of those toll gates. That brings about another tough question. If US-69 ever gets an Interstate upgrade will it be a "free" road and signed as US-69 or be a new turnpike running parallel to US-69?
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2017, 06:59:22 PM »

Not happening. The end.

This.  WYSIWYG.  New highway building is really unlikely and really unpopular now compared to maintaining what we have, US 69 is an expressway and you can do 70 on it between towns (even through them in some cases like Eufaula).  It gets plenty of traffic, but it doesn't need to be an interstate.  It'd be kinda hard to justify; the state politics have gotten toxic enough that a lot of people under 30 get out ASAP anyway, the state's going to hit peak traffic counts soon if it hasn't already.
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I-39

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2017, 08:44:48 PM »

You'd think they'd be pursuing this more as opposed to the I-57 extension since it's a shorter route. But alas, I guess we'll have to settle for I-57/30 as the direct Chicago-Dallas route (which honestly, I like better anyway. It allows you to bypass St. Louis and pay no tolls).
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Bobby5280

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 09:41:29 PM »

Quote from: Baloo Uriza
New highway building is really unlikely and really unpopular now compared to maintaining what we have, US 69 is an expressway and you can do 70 on it between towns (even through them in some cases like Eufaula).  It gets plenty of traffic, but it doesn't need to be an interstate.  It'd be kinda hard to justify; the state politics have gotten toxic enough that a lot of people under 30 get out ASAP anyway, the state's going to hit peak traffic counts soon if it hasn't already.

Traffic along that route, particularly semi truck traffic, is really heavy. There are few non-Interstate routes elsewhere in the country that have truck traffic levels like this. CA-58 in California between Barstow and Bakersfield (which really needs to be an extension of I-40) is the only obvious example that comes to mind.

As per OK state politics, I agree the "lawmakers" calling the shots in the State Capitol are laying the ground work for an exodus of young adults, especially young women. They're playing a short-term game, pandering to older, white, conservative voters and not thinking one bit about the long term effect that game will have on the state's economy. Any young couple wanting to raise a family would be stupidly insane to do so in Oklahoma under the current conditions. Those couples who are able to move to another state will have every incentive to do so. Young couples who cannot afford to leave will have every incentive not to have children.

"Lawmakers" have designs on dismantling the public school sector and privatizing it (big tax cuts for home owners and death to "socialist" public schools). Who cares if the average young couple can't afford unregulated, sky high private school tuition rates? "Lawmakers" just dealt a blow to single working mothers with their cuts to Earned Income Credit. They're doing all they can to make health insurance coverage affordable to only the biggest companies and most wealthy individuals. They want to eliminate a woman's right to choose, yet make it punishingly expensive for young working families to have children. It goes on and on. So all this bluster I hear from these guys "looking out for the American Family," is a whole lot of crap.

Every state economy depends on a steady supply of skilled young people entering the work force. Young workers are vital to supporting the tax base, pension systems and many other elements of the broader economy. Retired workers draw more from the system than pay into it, but boy do they show up to the election polls! Oklahoma is already a flyover state as it is. Under this game plan it will end up as a totally broke, deteriorating, aging and dying flyover state.

But once that process is complete, towns like Atoka and Muskogee will have lots of empty, abandoned properties easy enough to clear and make way for an I-45 extension. The extension would be more to the benefit of Texas & Mexico traffic heading to the Northeast US anyway. So if the towns along the way in OK are dead and dying it will make building that road so much more easy!
:-P
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 09:45:33 PM by Bobby5280 »
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US 89

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 11:52:01 PM »

This may have been said someplace, but I can't find it: I think I-45 could be extended up the US 69 corridor all the way to Kansas City. 69 is already a freeway in SE Kansas.

And then (although this is getting into fictional highways territory) I-35 could replace I-29 north from there, and I-45 can replace current I-35.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2017, 07:30:06 AM »

Quote from: Baloo Uriza
New highway building is really unlikely and really unpopular now compared to maintaining what we have, US 69 is an expressway and you can do 70 on it between towns (even through them in some cases like Eufaula).  It gets plenty of traffic, but it doesn't need to be an interstate.  It'd be kinda hard to justify; the state politics have gotten toxic enough that a lot of people under 30 get out ASAP anyway, the state's going to hit peak traffic counts soon if it hasn't already.

Traffic along that route, particularly semi truck traffic, is really heavy. There are few non-Interstate routes elsewhere in the country that have truck traffic levels like this. CA-58 in California between Barstow and Bakersfield (which really needs to be an extension of I-40) is the only obvious example that comes to mind.

I don't disagree.  Load alone isn't what promotes something to a higher level network, though. 

As per OK state politics, I agree the "lawmakers" calling the shots in the State Capitol are laying the ground work for an exodus of young adults, especially young women. They're playing a short-term game, pandering to older, white, conservative voters and not thinking one bit about the long term effect that game will have on the state's economy. Any young couple wanting to raise a family would be stupidly insane to do so in Oklahoma under the current conditions. Those couples who are able to move to another state will have every incentive to do so. Young couples who cannot afford to leave will have every incentive not to have children.

Irony being that they're not particularly gay-friendly, either, though I like it well enough it'd have to get much worse for GLBT folks before we consider bailing.

But once that process is complete, towns like Atoka and Muskogee will have lots of empty, abandoned properties easy enough to clear and make way for an I-45 extension. The extension would be more to the benefit of Texas & Mexico traffic heading to the Northeast US anyway. So if the towns along the way in OK are dead and dying it will make building that road so much more easy!
:-P

Why bother?  Not like the lights will be changing to release traffic from the side streets at that point, and going to a full blown freeway isn't going to help keep those places on the map for the folks who didn't leave.  But it will cost a lot of money that would be better spent almost any other way.  Kind of like how I don't realistically see anything more being done to US 75 with the exception of rerouting US 75 down the Indian Nations Turnpike, leaving the current bit through Coalgate as 75 Alternate.  You don't need a whole lot of luck to make it through Oklahoma without stopping on US 75 if you're traveling at the right time of day.
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Henry

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2017, 10:38:38 AM »

I agree that having I-45 would provide a way to bypass OKC at high speed if you're traveling from Dallas to St. Louis/Chicago and vice versa, but what about the route to Kansas City? With I-49 already in place, I really don't see any reason to build an Interstate along US 69, except for pork barrel purposes.
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rte66man

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2017, 11:18:12 AM »

Why bother?  Not like the lights will be changing to release traffic from the side streets at that point, and going to a full blown freeway isn't going to help keep those places on the map for the folks who didn't leave.  But it will cost a lot of money that would be better spent almost any other way.  Kind of like how I don't realistically see anything more being done to US 75 with the exception of rerouting US 75 down the Indian Nations Turnpike, leaving the current bit through Coalgate as 75 Alternate.  You don't need a whole lot of luck to make it through Oklahoma without stopping on US 75 if you're traveling at the right time of day.

Even at 2 a.m. it is highly unlikely you can make it through Okmulgee and Henryetta without stopping.  That doesn't even include Weleekta, Wetumka, Coalgate, Atoka, etc.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2017, 11:31:56 AM »

Why bother?  Not like the lights will be changing to release traffic from the side streets at that point, and going to a full blown freeway isn't going to help keep those places on the map for the folks who didn't leave.  But it will cost a lot of money that would be better spent almost any other way.  Kind of like how I don't realistically see anything more being done to US 75 with the exception of rerouting US 75 down the Indian Nations Turnpike, leaving the current bit through Coalgate as 75 Alternate.  You don't need a whole lot of luck to make it through Oklahoma without stopping on US 75 if you're traveling at the right time of day.

Even at 2 a.m. it is highly unlikely you can make it through Okmulgee and Henryetta without stopping.  That doesn't even include Weleekta, Wetumka, Coalgate, Atoka, etc.

It's theoretically possible northbound, though I think there's one stop sign southbound in Atoka.  I know I've made it from McAlester to Jenks via the INT and 75 without stopping, which was remarkable because the signals in Henryetta often act like at least the light at Main or the light at Trudgeon must be red at any given time.  It's a dice roll for the Spelter City light another 2200 meters north.  Okmulgee and Glenpool were green for 75 out of lack of traffic.  I hit Henryetta at ~10 PM on a weeknight.

All those little towns that are dying off because nobody wants to raise a family here pretty much shut down at 5 and the traffic's gone by 8 so there's not much reason for the lights to change.
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Brian556

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2017, 11:52:31 AM »

Quote from Bobby5280:
Quote
As per OK state politics, I agree the "lawmakers" calling the shots in the State Capitol are laying the ground work for an exodus of young adults, especially young women. They're playing a short-term game, pandering to older, white, conservative voters and not thinking one bit about the long term effect that game will have on the state's economy. Any young couple wanting to raise a family would be stupidly insane to do so in Oklahoma under the current conditions. Those couples who are able to move to another state will have every incentive to do so. Young couples who cannot afford to leave will have every incentive not to have children.

"Lawmakers" have designs on dismantling the public school sector and privatizing it (big tax cuts for home owners and death to "socialist" public schools). Who cares if the average young couple can't afford unregulated, sky high private school tuition rates? "Lawmakers" just dealt a blow to single working mothers with their cuts to Earned Income Credit. They're doing all they can to make health insurance coverage affordable to only the biggest companies and most wealthy individuals. They want to eliminate a woman's right to choose, yet make it punishingly expensive for young working families to have children. It goes on and on. So all this bluster I hear from these guys "looking out for the American Family," is a whole lot of crap.

Every state economy depends on a steady supply of skilled young people entering the work force. Young workers are vital to supporting the tax base, pension systems and many other elements of the broader economy. Retired workers draw more from the system than pay into it, but boy do they show up to the election polls! Oklahoma is already a flyover state as it is. Under this game plan it will end up as a totally broke, deteriorating, aging and dying flyover state.

I like what you said. I have always felt that the people in charge, and as a result, the entire system in general, are unfair to young people. I t sucks that all the people in charge are selfish old people that don't give two fucks about the younger generation.

Young people can't even afford to move out on their own because rent is astronomically high, because of greedy older people making it that way.
The education system is a dysfunctional scam designed to take advantage of and rip off young people. Its just a shame that most young people are too blind to see this. They should be raising hell.

I have strong disdain towards the older generation for their behavior over the decades and how their selfishness has made this country a shithole for the younger generation.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2017, 12:25:14 PM »

Young people can't even afford to move out on their own because rent is astronomically high, because of greedy older people making it that way.
The education system is a dysfunctional scam designed to take advantage of and rip off young people. Its just a shame that most young people are too blind to see this. They should be raising hell.

We are.  Only to get rebuffed with "Oh, you're just being selfish and entitled, libtards!"
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sparker

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2017, 06:16:48 PM »

Young people can't even afford to move out on their own because rent is astronomically high, because of greedy older people making it that way.
The education system is a dysfunctional scam designed to take advantage of and rip off young people. Its just a shame that most young people are too blind to see this. They should be raising hell.

We are.  Only to get rebuffed with "Oh, you're just being selfish and entitled, libtards!"

It seems like the most recent iterations of "conservatives" seem to be intending to set up certain jurisdictions -- and certainly the state of Oklahoma qualifies as a target -- as virtual "reservations" for followers of a mindset that thinks that anything introduced after about 1962-63 is an affront to their sociopolitical sensibilities (both ecumenical and secular).  From all appearances and evidence these folks would have rather avoided, in no particular order, the 1964 Civil Rights Act, the Pill, anything expanding individual rights (except for gun ownership & use), the Department of Education (they'll take USDOT with a grain of salt!), HUD, female congresspersons other than previous officeholders' widows, most of cable TV, popular music post-early-Elvis, the Summer of Love (duh!), moderate Republicans, yadda yadda.........!!!!  They've always been around, but now they've managed to convince enough gullible people to cobble up a working voting bloc and vote against their own interests!  And much of this is due to media manipulation -- repeating the same bullshit until it becomes the de facto truth to an audience that has been inured to seek simple answers to what are, for better or worse, complex problems.   The reality is that at this point in time we can't revert to pre-1963 sensibilities; at minimum a working plurality of the country no longer even pays lip service to many of the a priori standards promulgated prior to that time; the media and information expansion over the past half-century has taken care of that!  I doubted the concept when I first read it in the mid-'60's, but perhaps Marshall McLuhan was right -- the medium -- or control thereof -- has indeed become the prevailing message (no thanks to the likes of Fox News and even CNN for contributing to this phenomenon).  Maybe the political majority in Oklahoma may wish to shape their state as a shining beacon pointing to the past as future, but all they'll do in the longer run is to make a sizeable number of lives miserable (or at best really inconvenient) until their misadventures catch up with them.  The "dictatorship of the proletariat" eventually resulted in the downfall of the socialized state; the "dictatorship of the self-righteous" will likely be the bÍte noire of this particular ideological bent. 

And then maybe a few purse strings will loose and US 69 will indeed become a northern extension of I-45.  In the meantime, we'll all just have to push for the I-49 and the nascent I-57 corridors to be completed to effect relatively efficient egress from Texas to the upper Midwest and Great Lakes areas!     
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 06:19:47 PM by sparker »
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I-39

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2017, 07:09:21 PM »

Well, I certainly didn't intend for this to get political................

I started this to discuss a potential extension of I-45 and now it's turned into a thread for people to vent their rage about Oklahoma politics.  :-|
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Bobby5280

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 12:18:46 AM »

Oklahoma's politics are why things like the present mixed-bag configuration of US-69 are in their current condition. They already started the process of converting US-69 in Oklahoma to a freeway. It's all freeway between the outskirts of McAlestser and Muskogee. The segment from Durant to Caddo is freeway quality. There are other short stretches of road where the main lanes are flanked by frontage roads or a wide median is available for building a future freeway. Obviously the state had some designs on converting this highway from the Red River to Big Cabin into a freeway. They just never finished the job.

And it's like this for so many other road projects in Oklahoma. The state has little if any sense of long term planning when it comes to highway corridors, whether they're roads needed for a metro area like OKC or a longer distance project beneficial to a multi-state region.

The Kilpatrick Turnpike is still just one-fourth of a loop highway around OKC more than 20 years after the road started getting built. It's growing ever more impossible to build any extensions of it. The proposed extension to Airport Road is a joke. But what else can they do? Planners were asleep at the wheel while the corridor directly South through Mustang got gobbled up by developers.

When they actually want to build something like a new road their concepts turn out to be a giant, head-scratching WTF. Like those proposed turnpikes from Duncan to Davis and Snyder to Clinton back in the 1990's. I have a few different ideas for new roads in the state, a couple of which would be great, beneficial additions to the overall Interstate highway system. But I don't know what kind of logic these guys were using to come up with those turnpike proposals. It all seemed like good ole boy network deal making crap rather than doing something that actually made any sense.
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sparker

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2017, 01:44:05 AM »

Well, I certainly didn't intend for this to get political................

I started this to discuss a potential extension of I-45 and now it's turned into a thread for people to vent their rage about Oklahoma politics.  :-|
Oklahoma's politics are why things like the present mixed-bag configuration of US-69 are in their current condition. They already started the process of converting US-69 in Oklahoma to a freeway. It's all freeway between the outskirts of McAlestser and Muskogee. The segment from Durant to Caddo is freeway quality. There are other short stretches of road where the main lanes are flanked by frontage roads or a wide median is available for building a future freeway. Obviously the state had some designs on converting this highway from the Red River to Big Cabin into a freeway. They just never finished the job.

And it's like this for so many other road projects in Oklahoma. The state has little if any sense of long term planning when it comes to highway corridors, whether they're roads needed for a metro area like OKC or a longer distance project beneficial to a multi-state region.

The Kilpatrick Turnpike is still just one-fourth of a loop highway around OKC more than 20 years after the road started getting built. It's growing ever more impossible to build any extensions of it. The proposed extension to Airport Road is a joke. But what else can they do? Planners were asleep at the wheel while the corridor directly South through Mustang got gobbled up by developers.

When they actually want to build something like a new road their concepts turn out to be a giant, head-scratching WTF. Like those proposed turnpikes from Duncan to Davis and Snyder to Clinton back in the 1990's. I have a few different ideas for new roads in the state, a couple of which would be great, beneficial additions to the overall Interstate highway system. But I don't know what kind of logic these guys were using to come up with those turnpike proposals. It all seemed like good ole boy network deal making crap rather than doing something that actually made any sense.

Whether at the state or federal level, politics invariably intrudes on transportation planning efforts.  But only part of that manifests itself as active opposition to projects; by and large it's a simple matter of priority reductionism.  Regarding OK -- as long as the attention of those who have been in charge of state matters for the last generation is focused on other items within a specific agenda, transportation -- which for the most part doesn't receive a lot of social-policy activity outside urban circles or environmentally fragile areas -- doesn't pose the opportunity for ideologues to further that agenda, especially in a state like Oklahoma that features limited urbanization.  It's a typical Plains "red" state in that much of the political power still stems from rural areas and small towns (including speed traps!!!).  That doesn't bode well for large-scale statewide projects -- such as an upgrade of US 69 would be.  Transportation progress in this venue just won't occur until such time as due political (and fiscal) attention is paid to it -- period; and with the present bunch in charge, that probably won't come soon.     
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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2017, 03:50:19 AM »

Not happening. The end.

This.  WYSIWYG.  New highway building is really unlikely and really unpopular now compared to maintaining what we have, US 69 is an expressway and you can do 70 on it between towns (even through them in some cases like Eufaula).  It gets plenty of traffic, but it doesn't need to be an interstate.  It'd be kinda hard to justify; the state politics have gotten toxic enough that a lot of people under 30 get out ASAP anyway, the state's going to hit peak traffic counts soon if it hasn't already.

Are you high? Have you ever driven this route? It carries a MAJOR amount of truck traffic and is a dangerous and slow highway. It needs to be a freeway or some sort of nonstop expressway and it needs it now.
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bugo

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2017, 03:54:36 AM »

Why bother?  Not like the lights will be changing to release traffic from the side streets at that point, and going to a full blown freeway isn't going to help keep those places on the map for the folks who didn't leave.  But it will cost a lot of money that would be better spent almost any other way.  Kind of like how I don't realistically see anything more being done to US 75 with the exception of rerouting US 75 down the Indian Nations Turnpike, leaving the current bit through Coalgate as 75 Alternate.  You don't need a whole lot of luck to make it through Oklahoma without stopping on US 75 if you're traveling at the right time of day.

Indian Nation Turnpike. You don't seem to know the correct name of any of the local turnpikes.
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bugo

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2017, 03:57:28 AM »

I've done 69/75 several times late at night coming home from concerts in Dallas. I nearly got run over by two trucks south of Atoka heading back one rainy night. It needs to be improved. If you were the one to die in a collision, would you feel differently about it?
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2017, 07:49:17 AM »

Well, I certainly didn't intend for this to get political................

I started this to discuss a potential extension of I-45 and now it's turned into a thread for people to vent their rage about Oklahoma politics.  :-|

Well, the caustic politics of the region have pretty much doomed I 45 from happening.  Or really, a need to upgrade surface expressways to Interstate standards, for the most part, much less build outright new highways.  And I say this as someone who likes Oklahoma:  People who grew up here are leaving.  Stereotypes about Oklahoma being where America's been sending it's unwanted groups of people for the last 150 years aren't likely to be broken anytime soon.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2017, 08:15:10 AM »

Oklahoma's politics are why things like the present mixed-bag configuration of US-69 are in their current condition. They already started the process of converting US-69 in Oklahoma to a freeway. It's all freeway between the outskirts of McAlestser and Muskogee. The segment from Durant to Caddo is freeway quality. There are other short stretches of road where the main lanes are flanked by frontage roads or a wide median is available for building a future freeway. Obviously the state had some designs on converting this highway from the Red River to Big Cabin into a freeway. They just never finished the job.

I'd also posit that a surface expressway with only the major junctions being fully controlled is a perfectly appropriate and cost effective solution, especially when most of these highways (and certainly all from here on out) definitely have abutters whose only frontage is against the highway.  I'm not sure I get the weird hate for expressways and the irrational need to see everything upgraded to freeway standards, or even interstate freeway standards on this forum.  At some point, you hit a level where you're not really making anything any safer, just more expensive and less convenient.

So going to fully controlled access as a freeway (as opposed to a semicontrolled expressway) is going to require widening the existing expressway far enough to run a freeway down the central median.  Call it the Texas problem, since the freeway-within-an-expressway configuration is ultimately what they require now for all new freeways to deal with it.  So, four roadways of two lanes each...the back-of-napkin math on that using Arkansas DOT's numbers would be around $16 million/mile in rural areas, or a little over double that if you go by NACTOs estimates.  In either case, you can double it safely in urban areas and again if there's a bridge or tunnel involved.  So, best case scenario, that's a pretty unattractive option based on cost alone.  And then you have way more lanemiles to maintain over time, which is something we already struggle with in Oklahoma.

And it's like this for so many other road projects in Oklahoma. The state has little if any sense of long term planning when it comes to highway corridors, whether they're roads needed for a metro area like OKC or a longer distance project beneficial to a multi-state region.

There's also a little bit of the sting that comes with being sold a raft of crap, Turner Turnpike's a 141.6km testament to that.  It was sold to the legislature as being a necessity on account that once opened, it's AADT would well exceed by the 1960s what I 405 in LA or ONT 401 today.  The only reason it looks good now is thanks to inducing traffic that would otherwise take US 66.  Had the state legislators known in the mid- to late-1920s what we know now, there's no way in hell that would have ever been approved.  And, at least one thing that was taken away from that, for better or worse, is that the legislature is now pretty skeptical about traffic projections over time.

The Kilpatrick Turnpike is still just one-fourth of a loop highway around OKC more than 20 years after the road started getting built. It's growing ever more impossible to build any extensions of it. The proposed extension to Airport Road is a joke. But what else can they do? Planners were asleep at the wheel while the corridor directly South through Mustang got gobbled up by developers.

There's always eminent domain, but that's always an option if there's a reason beyond pork to actually undertake such a project in the first place.

It all seemed like good ole boy network deal making crap rather than doing something that actually made any sense.

I would say that's the case about any interstate highway that goes through a city, rather than completely and entirely bypassing the entire metro area without touching the city, per Eisenhower's original vision for the system.  Freeways tend to be urban planning horror stories at their best, and with much of the early Interstates being intentionally used as a weapon certainly didn't help.  And the whole point of the Interstate system, in theory, is to facilitate interstate movement, not intrastate or intraurban traffic...
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rte66man

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2017, 11:42:40 AM »

Bringing this topic back from the political abyss.....

ODOT has announced a public meeting regarding the proposed improvements to US69/75 in Calera:

https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=33238

Quote
Public invited to discuss future US-69 project in Calera

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation is hosting a public meeting Thursday, June 15 in Calera to present information and gather public input on a proposed project to improve US-69 from Chickasaw Rd. near Calera to the US-70 Bypass near Durant in Bryan County.   
 
This project will help improve safety and efficiency for the significant freight traffic on the US-69/75 corridor by improving rail crossings and upgrading it to a controlled-access highway using on- and off-ramps and one way  frontage roads. The existing highway segment has numerous access points, including three signalized intersections and a rail crossing, which create traffic congestion and safety concerns.

A brief presentation will be made on the proposed improvements with ODOT officials available to answer questions following. All project materials will be available online following the meeting at www.odot.org/publicmeetings.

US-69 public meeting

Thursday, June 15
6 p.m.
Calera Public Schools Gymnasium
111 North 4th St.
Calera

Major funding for this project will come from a $62 million FASTLANE grant awarded by the U.S. Department of Transportation in June 2016. Construction is tentatively set to begin in FFY 2019.
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TXtoNJ

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Re: US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma (Future I-45?)
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2017, 11:46:37 AM »

Well, I certainly didn't intend for this to get political................

I started this to discuss a potential extension of I-45 and now it's turned into a thread for people to vent their rage about Oklahoma politics.  :-|

Well, the caustic politics of the region have pretty much doomed I 45 from happening.  Or really, a need to upgrade surface expressways to Interstate standards, for the most part, much less build outright new highways.  And I say this as someone who likes Oklahoma:  People who grew up here are leaving.  Stereotypes about Oklahoma being where America's been sending it's unwanted groups of people for the last 150 years aren't likely to be broken anytime soon.

Oklahoma has always been an internal colony, and Oklahomans are very resentful of this.
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