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Author Topic: U.S. Route 30 Indiana  (Read 2007 times)

ITB

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U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« on: August 22, 2017, 01:37:13 PM »

Fort Wayne, Indiana, boosters are once again talking up upgrading U.S. Route 30 to an interstate. It looks like they're talking a cue from the I-69 project, which involves, in part, the upgrading of SR 37 to interstate standards between Bloomington and Indianapolis.

Quote
Time to make U.S. 30 into a genuine freeway
Leigh E. Morris

U.S. Highway 30 is a key 155-mile traffic artery that runs between the Illinois and Ohio state lines. For most of its length, it is classified as a limited-access highway, which means that at-grade intersections or driveway cuts are not allowed unless a permit is issued.

However, through the years, many permits have been issued so that today, it should probably be considered limited-access in name only. Along with the proliferation of access permits issued, there has been growth in the number of traffic signals at intersections 40 of them between Interstates 65 and 69 alone.

All of this has impeded traffic flow and contributed to the number of accidents as vehicles enter and leave the highway.

A U.S. 30 Coalition has been formed to advocate that the roadway become a freeway between I-69 near Fort Wayne and Indiana 49 at Valparaiso. If that goal is achieved, there would be no direct access from driveways and no at-grade crossings. Overpasses and frontage roads would help provide the local access that residents, businesses and farmers need. ...

http://www.journalgazette.net/opinion/columns/20170817/time-to-make-us-30-into-a-genuine-freeway

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silverback1065

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 01:40:04 PM »

I think it's a great idea, and it should be from 65 to 69 upgraded.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 01:40:11 PM »

It would be nice is most of the signals were replaced with interchanges (between SR-49 and I-69), and there was a bypass of Warsaw.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 03:17:00 PM »

Does US 30 in Indiana really need to be an Interstate. I think it is as likely to become an Interstate as US 31 from Indianapolis to South Bend is to become an Interstate. As in, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 04:27:17 PM »

Does US 30 in Indiana really need to be an Interstate. I think it is as likely to become an Interstate as US 31 from Indianapolis to South Bend is to become an Interstate. As in, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

I think what you most likely end up seeing on US-30 between I-69 and SR-49 is the upgrade of major intersections of interchanges, and converting segments to freeway that pass through Columbia City, Warsaw and Plymouth, while keeping at-grade intersections in place at less-traveled cross roads.  While not a true freeway for the entire length, it would at least eliminate all of the traffic lights and make US-30 a non-stop route between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 05:36:17 PM »

Maybe IL should Piggy-back on this, and from where this US 30 Freeway would terminate, keep the Freeway going West into IL on something we've heard called the "Illiana Expressway"

I wonder if having a US 30 Freeway would change predicted Traffic Counts on a future Illiana? Make it more attractive for tolling maybe?
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 08:33:03 PM »

Does US 30 in Indiana really need to be an Interstate. I think it is as likely to become an Interstate as US 31 from Indianapolis to South Bend is to become an Interstate. As in, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

I think what you most likely end up seeing on US-30 between I-69 and SR-49 is the upgrade of major intersections of interchanges, and converting segments to freeway that pass through Columbia City, Warsaw and Plymouth, while keeping at-grade intersections in place at less-traveled cross roads.  While not a true freeway for the entire length, it would at least eliminate all of the traffic lights and make US-30 a non-stop route between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso.

I'm on board with this, though I'd be even more on board with this if the original poster knew that US 30 is in Northern Indiana and not Southern Indiana.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 12:09:12 AM »

Does US 30 in Indiana really need to be an Interstate. I think it is as likely to become an Interstate as US 31 from Indianapolis to South Bend is to become an Interstate. As in, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

I think what you most likely end up seeing on US-30 between I-69 and SR-49 is the upgrade of major intersections of interchanges, and converting segments to freeway that pass through Columbia City, Warsaw and Plymouth, while keeping at-grade intersections in place at less-traveled cross roads.  While not a true freeway for the entire length, it would at least eliminate all of the traffic lights and make US-30 a non-stop route between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso.

I'm on board with this, though I'd be even more on board with this if the original poster knew that US 30 is in Northern Indiana and not Southern Indiana.

If there's enough political will emanating from the region -- and expressed continually and vocally -- then it's possible that both US 30 and 31 will see enhancement on a large scale (whether as an Interstate or not).  Regarding 30:  if some sort of cooperation can be achieved with Ohio regarding coordination of upgrade efforts, then such a project -- or series of projects -- might gain some traction.  Of course, there will be blowback from the ITR operators (possibly of the litigious variety!) fearful of long-distance shunpiking!   
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 12:10:15 AM »

This subject has been discussed at length in the Great Lakes board (where the discussion belongs, since the route is in northern Indiana). It's in the Indiana Notes thread, starting with my post here: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7946.msg2238885#msg2238885. Enjoy!
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silverback1065

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 10:56:10 PM »

this thread should be in the great lakes thread
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paulthemapguy

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2017, 12:48:54 PM »

Maybe IL should Piggy-back on this, and from where this US 30 Freeway would terminate, keep the Freeway going West into IL on something we've heard called the "Illiana Expressway"

I wonder if having a US 30 Freeway would change predicted Traffic Counts on a future Illiana? Make it more attractive for tolling maybe?

Hahaha I was going to say the exact same thing.
Also the interchange at US30 and IN-49 needs a re-work.  I'd include that with this initiative.
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silverback1065

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2017, 02:17:26 PM »

Maybe IL should Piggy-back on this, and from where this US 30 Freeway would terminate, keep the Freeway going West into IL on something we've heard called the "Illiana Expressway"

I wonder if having a US 30 Freeway would change predicted Traffic Counts on a future Illiana? Make it more attractive for tolling maybe?

Hahaha I was going to say the exact same thing.
Also the interchange at US30 and IN-49 needs a re-work.  I'd include that with this initiative.

not a major one, unless you're going for interstate standards.    this is fictional, but maybe they can throw i-80 onto it, they could upgrade it from i-355 and 80 interchange, have 80 go onto 30 from there, and have it jump back onto it's old alignment using i-71 and 76.  make up some number for any orphaned routes. 
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 11:09:55 AM »

The only number here that might work would be a western "I-78".  Probably better to improve it as an expressway with some reductions of the number of stoplights with either frontage roads and or select interchange construction at key intersections.   US 30 east of Ft. Wayne could hypothetically be an extension of I-72.   Or an eastern orphan of it.   
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Life in Paradise

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 11:59:33 AM »

Still think that if you could get Ohio on board, you could just twin I-76 with I-71 from near Akron to Mansfield, and then split off and put I-76 on US 30 (which is mainly freeway through Ohio), and then improve the non-freeway portions to Fort Wayne, bypass the city on I-469 and I-69, and then take back up with US30 and spend a boatload of money to get it freeway updated to the Valparaiso area (or further).  It would immediately have traffic once done, from trucks that would go from the Ohio and Indiana Toll Roads to the new interstate.  Although I don't think that that would be the idea for the improvement.
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ilpt4u

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 03:27:45 PM »

Still think that if you could get Ohio on board, you could just twin I-76 with I-71 from near Akron to Mansfield, and then split off and put I-76 on US 30 (which is mainly freeway through Ohio), and then improve the non-freeway portions to Fort Wayne, bypass the city on I-469 and I-69, and then take back up with US30 and spend a boatload of money to get it freeway updated to the Valparaiso area (or further).  It would immediately have traffic once done, from trucks that would go from the Ohio and Indiana Toll Roads to the new interstate.  Although I don't think that that would be the idea for the improvement.
Why not just keep I-76 on the OH Turnpike up to I-90, and keep I-80 on the Free Interstate following the current I-76 to I-71 and break off in Mansfield, following US 30?

If IN gets US 30 upgraded in Indiana and Illinois finds a way to get the Illiana built, there could be 2 continuous Freeways between I-80 in IL and the current I-80/I-76 junction at the OH Turnpike

I'd sign it I-80, if such a thing happens. Also, if I were OH, IN, and IL, I'd toll it (if in line to get an Interstate designation), especially since it will compete with the OH Turnpike, IN Toll Road, and the Tri-State.

I guess the downsides would be having to renumber I-480 and I-280, but those could be renumbered it I-476 and I-290, respectively
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 03:38:14 PM by ilpt4u »
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 04:06:21 PM »

Still think that if you could get Ohio on board, you could just twin I-76 with I-71 from near Akron to Mansfield, and then split off and put I-76 on US 30 (which is mainly freeway through Ohio), and then improve the non-freeway portions to Fort Wayne, bypass the city on I-469 and I-69, and then take back up with US30 and spend a boatload of money to get it freeway updated to the Valparaiso area (or further).  It would immediately have traffic once done, from trucks that would go from the Ohio and Indiana Toll Roads to the new interstate.  Although I don't think that that would be the idea for the improvement.
Why not just keep I-76 on the OH Turnpike up to I-90, and keep I-80 on the Free Interstate following the current I-76 to I-71 and break off in Mansfield, following US 30?

If IN gets US 30 upgraded in Indiana and Illinois finds a way to get the Illiana built, there could be 2 continuous Freeways between I-80 in IL and the current I-80/I-76 junction at the OH Turnpike

I'd sign it I-80, if such a thing happens. Also, if I were OH, IN, and IL, I'd toll it (if in line to get an Interstate designation), especially since it will compete with the OH Turnpike, IN Toll Road, and the Tri-State.

I guess the downsides would be having to renumber I-480 and I-280, but those could be renumbered it I-476 and I-290, respectively

If either I-76 or I-80 is ever extended over US 30 west of I-71, it might be appropriate to upgrade the two trumpet-type TOTSO's in the Akron area.  They might function adequately for use with the local Akron connector that the west end of I-76 is today, but as part of a long-distance corridor, not so much!  Directional or semi-directional interchanges with multiple through traffic lanes on relatively high-speed turns would be more fitting that the present arrangement.
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ilpt4u

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 04:51:42 PM »

If either I-76 or I-80 is ever extended over US 30 west of I-71, it might be appropriate to upgrade the two trumpet-type TOTSO's in the Akron area.  They might function adequately for use with the local Akron connector that the west end of I-76 is today, but as part of a long-distance corridor, not so much!  Directional or semi-directional interchanges with multiple through traffic lanes on relatively high-speed turns would be more fitting that the present arrangement.
Counterpoint:

Present I-80 traveling between the Indiana Toll Road and the Borman Expressway. Can't get a much lower speed connection there (well, there is always Breezewood...), especially for a major trucking corridor

That should have been upgraded years ago, yet here we are...
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abqtraveler

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2017, 11:57:28 PM »

Does US 30 in Indiana really need to be an Interstate. I think it is as likely to become an Interstate as US 31 from Indianapolis to South Bend is to become an Interstate. As in, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

I think what you most likely end up seeing on US-30 between I-69 and SR-49 is the upgrade of major intersections of interchanges, and converting segments to freeway that pass through Columbia City, Warsaw and Plymouth, while keeping at-grade intersections in place at less-traveled cross roads.  While not a true freeway for the entire length, it would at least eliminate all of the traffic lights and make US-30 a non-stop route between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso.

I'm on board with this, though I'd be even more on board with this if the original poster knew that US 30 is in Northern Indiana and not Southern Indiana.

If there's enough political will emanating from the region -- and expressed continually and vocally -- then it's possible that both US 30 and 31 will see enhancement on a large scale (whether as an Interstate or not).  Regarding 30:  if some sort of cooperation can be achieved with Ohio regarding coordination of upgrade efforts, then such a project -- or series of projects -- might gain some traction.  Of course, there will be blowback from the ITR operators (possibly of the litigious variety!) fearful of long-distance shunpiking!   

Particularly so with US-24 upgraded to a 4-lane facility between Fort Wayne and Toledo. Upgrading US-30 between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso, and linking with the US-24 Fort-to-Port route would certainly make shunpiking a lot easier. The ITRCC in Indiana and the Ohio Turnpike Commission in Ohio would likely fight the completion of a toll-free nonstop route between Toledo and Valparaiso.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2017, 01:53:22 AM »

Particularly so with US-24 upgraded to a 4-lane facility between Fort Wayne and Toledo. Upgrading US-30 between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso, and linking with the US-24 Fort-to-Port route would certainly make shunpiking a lot easier. The ITRCC in Indiana and the Ohio Turnpike Commission in Ohio would likely fight the completion of a toll-free nonstop route between Toledo and Valparaiso.

The OTC would almost certainly weigh in negatively on any prospects of turning us 30 from Fort Wayne to I-71 into a full limited-access facility (although it's pretty close right now).  The ITRCC probably wouldn't really care about anything east of Fort Wayne; they would, however, concentrate their concern on the Valparaiso-I-69 segment, since (a) that would be in competition with their facility and (b) the US 24 upgrades east of the Fort are a fait accompli -- and there's little agencies in either state can do to limit its usage -- and its primary effect is on the Ohio Turnpike, with only a few miles of ITR affected. 
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U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2017, 02:10:24 AM »

Particularly so with US-24 upgraded to a 4-lane facility between Fort Wayne and Toledo. Upgrading US-30 between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso, and linking with the US-24 Fort-to-Port route would certainly make shunpiking a lot easier. The ITRCC in Indiana and the Ohio Turnpike Commission in Ohio would likely fight the completion of a toll-free nonstop route between Toledo and Valparaiso.

The OTC would almost certainly weigh in negatively on any prospects of turning us 30 from Fort Wayne to I-71 into a full limited-access facility (although it's pretty close right now). The ITRCC probably wouldn't really care about anything east of Fort Wayne; they would, however, concentrate their concern on the Valparaiso-I-69 segment, since (a) that would be in competition with their facility and (b) the US 24 upgrades east of the Fort are a fait accompli -- and there's little agencies in either state can do to limit its usage -- and its primary effect is on the Ohio Turnpike, with only a few miles of ITR affected.

I think they might be wasting their time if they complain. It's mostly freeway or pretty damn close already. If someone is going from Fort Wayne to Akron, they're not going to take the turnpike. US 30 is a shorter distance and it's faster. I wouldn't mind 76 being extended west to Ft. Wayne.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 02:23:30 AM by mvak36 »
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2017, 09:45:34 AM »

I have driven US30 from the IL/IN line all the way to Ohio.

I agree that too many exceptions for traffic lights have been made and would be enhanced by upgrading the route to limited access at a minimum.

They can start when the route between Ft Wayne and Logansport is finally done.

While getting an I number assigned would be great, I dont care as long as the travel times improve.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2017, 02:28:55 PM »

Isn't there some clause from when they gave responsibility of the Toll Road to private operators that they can't build a competing facility to the Toll Road?
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Brandon

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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2017, 02:55:53 PM »

Particularly so with US-24 upgraded to a 4-lane facility between Fort Wayne and Toledo. Upgrading US-30 between Fort Wayne and Valparaiso, and linking with the US-24 Fort-to-Port route would certainly make shunpiking a lot easier. The ITRCC in Indiana and the Ohio Turnpike Commission in Ohio would likely fight the completion of a toll-free nonstop route between Toledo and Valparaiso.

The OTC would almost certainly weigh in negatively on any prospects of turning us 30 from Fort Wayne to I-71 into a full limited-access facility (although it's pretty close right now).  The ITRCC probably wouldn't really care about anything east of Fort Wayne; they would, however, concentrate their concern on the Valparaiso-I-69 segment, since (a) that would be in competition with their facility and (b) the US 24 upgrades east of the Fort are a fait accompli -- and there's little agencies in either state can do to limit its usage -- and its primary effect is on the Ohio Turnpike, with only a few miles of ITR affected. 

The Ohio Turnpike generally sees a lot of cross country traffic, as well as that going to/from Michigan from the east.  US-30 is pretty much all freeway already in Ohio, and is too far south to be in competition.  Plus, the Turnpike is six lanes from Youngstown to Toledo due to the traffic load.

The Indiana Toll Road, on the other land, could be very negatively affected by a much upgraded US-30 when combined with Fort-to-Port (US-24).  The Toll Road is only four lanes, and it is in rough shape currently.

Isn't there some clause from when they gave responsibility of the Toll Road to private operators that they can't build a competing facility to the Toll Road?

Yes, but that seems to affect US-20 more than US-30, IIRC.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 05:02:00 PM »

Isn't there some clause from when they gave responsibility of the Toll Road to private operators that they can't build a competing facility to the Toll Road?
Within a certain number of miles of the Toll Road. US 30 is far enough to not be constrained.
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Re: U.S. Route 30 Indiana
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2017, 10:05:46 AM »

If US-30 is upgraded to a freeway it should keep its US Highway designation. No need to slap an interstate shield on it.
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