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Author Topic: Oregon  (Read 33523 times)

Tarkus

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #275 on: February 26, 2020, 05:09:53 AM »

Regarding Burns, the previous mayor (who was in office at the time of the occupation) coincidentally happens to be a somewhat distant cousin of mine--I believe he's my fourth cousin, once removed.  Haven't ever met him, actually, but the last time I visited, I learned he was pretty popular in town, and was against the Bundy occupation.

Onto an interesting highway-related thing: I was browsing Washington County's site, and reading about their plans to fix the mess that is Cornelius Pass Road at Germantown and Old Cornelius Pass Roads.  (BTW, they're installing a signal at Cornelius Pass/Old Cornelius Pass, and turning the short little bit of Germantown between the two into a one-way slip lane sort of thing).  The fact sheet here noted something that I had heard rumored since 2014, but was not sure if it would ever come to pass, but apparently, it did in 2017 HB2017 (see Section 134(3)(d)).

Apparently, once this project and the other work on the Multnomah County segment are done, Cornelius Pass Road between US-26 and US-30 is going to be transferred to ODOT.  This means that, presumably, it's going to get a highway number, at least internally--whether or not it actually gets signed as a numbered route is another matter entirely.  Based on the county-based internal highway numbering system (which is where the mostly unsigned post-2002 route numbers originate), it would probably end up being somewhere in the 140s, since that's the range for Washington County.  145, IIRC, is the next available number.

Whether or not it'd be considered to act as an extension of another route is another interesting question.  On the secondary 200-series route grid, for north-south routes, it's right in between the termini of OR-219 and OR-217.  Just to engage in a little fun speculation, OR-217 does terminate at US-26 as it is, so while I'd consider it unlikely, it's not completely implausible that they could send it up Cornelius Pass, and have a seven-mile-long multiplex.  OR-219, however, doesn't go any farther north than OR-8 at the moment (S 1st and Baseline).  In theory, it could be continued up 1st/Glencoe to US-26 in North Plains--that is all city/county, but that doesn't necessarily preclude it (see OR-210, OR-10, and OR-8 still being signed--albeit not all that well--along segments under Washington County control), and it'd be a bit more consistent in terms of the type of route (a predominantly 2-lane road, rather than a freeway).  And the multiplex would be two miles shorter.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 05:12:04 AM by Tarkus »
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JasonOfORoads

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #276 on: March 26, 2020, 04:59:00 AM »

Apparently, once this project and the other work on the Multnomah County segment are done, Cornelius Pass Road between US-26 and US-30 is going to be transferred to ODOT.  This means that, presumably, it's going to get a highway number, at least internally--whether or not it actually gets signed as a numbered route is another matter entirely.  Based on the county-based internal highway numbering system (which is where the mostly unsigned post-2002 route numbers originate), it would probably end up being somewhere in the 140s, since that's the range for Washington County.  145, IIRC, is the next available number.

It's also possible that this could be a Multnomah County route. Oregon traditionally mileposts its north-south highways with Mile 0 at its northern terminus, which in this case would be US-30. Assuming ODOT isn't going to recycle numbers when it doesn't have to, the next available number would be 126.

Or... they could do like the Sunrise Expressway and give it a primary number like 76.

I suppose we'll see which one it is when the dust settles.

I presume that it would also get the name Cornelius Pass Highway.

Quote
Whether or not it'd be considered to act as an extension of another route is another interesting question.  On the secondary 200-series route grid, for north-south routes, it's right in between the termini of OR-219 and OR-217.  Just to engage in a little fun speculation, OR-217 does terminate at US-26 as it is, so while I'd consider it unlikely, it's not completely implausible that they could send it up Cornelius Pass, and have a seven-mile-long multiplex.  OR-219, however, doesn't go any farther north than OR-8 at the moment (S 1st and Baseline).  In theory, it could be continued up 1st/Glencoe to US-26 in North Plains--that is all city/county, but that doesn't necessarily preclude it (see OR-210, OR-10, and OR-8 still being signed--albeit not all that well--along segments under Washington County control), and it'd be a bit more consistent in terms of the type of route (a predominantly 2-lane road, rather than a freeway).  And the multiplex would be two miles shorter.

Another more-direct route between the two could utilize SE 10th Ave and NE Cornell Rd. between Hillsboro and Cornelius Pass Rd. This would require a multiplex of OR-8 for 0.8 miles on the western/southern end and just under a mile of either Hillsboro or Washington County owned Cornelius Pass Rd. on the eastern/northern end. Here is a map showing both routings, the "Glencoe Routing" in green and the "Cornell Routing" in blue with 217 in red (click image for larger version):



The Cornell Routing would allow greater Hillsboro to be served by a state route, albeit one on city and county streets. It's a more effective means of reaching Cornelius Pass coming from existing OR-219 or OR-8. It's also shorter, coming in at 6 miles vs. 10.7 miles for the Glencoe Routing. The only issue I see (well, aside from the "non-existent signage on some locally-maintained state routes" one) is that some intersections may need to be reconfigured or rebuilt somehow to move the flow of traffic along this new corridor.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 03:14:00 AM by JasonOfORoads »
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xonhulu

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #277 on: March 26, 2020, 11:13:48 PM »

I wouldn't count on Oregon following the old county-based system for the numbering of the Cornelius Pass Highway, based on recent history.

Somewhat recently, when ODOT merged the North Umpqua Hwy #73 and East Diamond Lake Hwy #425, it was re-christened North Umpqua Hwy #138 to match its Route #, even though Hwy 138 would be in Tillamook County under the old county-based numbering system.  In that system, it would either be in the 230's (Douglas County) or in the 420's (Klamath County). 

But this decision is understandable, because ODOT took advantage of a chance to make the Hwy and Rte numbers coincide on that stretch of road.  Although a better Route # for the North Umpqua Highway would've been OR 60, imo, since it's between OR 58 and OR 62.

Interestingly, the western segment of OR 138 was not included in this re-designation, as it's still Elkton-Sutherlin Hwy #231.
 
Less explicable than that is, when the jurisdictional transfer of the Delta Highway in Eugene is complete, ODOT is apparently going to assign it Hwy #132, again a number that should be in Tillamook County, not Lane County (Hwys #22x).  Here's a link to the jurisdictional transfer agreement; look near the bottom of page 2:

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Get-Involved/OTCSupportMaterials/Consent_10_Attach_3_Jurisdictional_Transfer_Agreement_832.pdf

It says Route #132, but I'm assuming the Hwy # will be the same.

So it's anybody's guess what number the Cornelius Pass Highway gets.

The idea to extend OR 219 up Cornell Road to Cornelius Pass Road, then up to US 30 is actually pretty logical, but I'm sure ODOT is only interested in the segment north of US 26 as a link between the two US highways.  Combined with 26 and 217, you now have a highway bypass of downtown Portland for traffic between 30 and I-5.  Not really a great route for trucks, though, given Cornelius Pass' limitations.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 03:34:35 PM by xonhulu »
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JasonOfORoads

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #278 on: March 27, 2020, 02:59:12 AM »

Less explicable than that is, when the jurisdictional transfer of the Delta Highway in Eugene is complete, ODOT is apparently going to assign it Hwy #132, again a number that should be in Tillamook County, not Lane County (Hwys #22x).  Here's a link to the jurisdictional transfer agreement; look near the bottom of page 2:

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Get-Involved/OTCSupportMaterials/Consent_10_Attach_3_Jurisdictional_Transfer_Agreement_832.pdf

It says Route #132, but I'm assuming the Hwy # will be the same.

The reason a 22x wasn't picked is because all 22x's have been "used up":
  • 220: Mapleton-Eugene Highway (1931-1966)
  • 221: Fox Hollow Highway (1931-1955)
  • 222: Springfield-Creswell Highway (1938-2018)
  • 223: Junction City-Eugene Highway (1935-1994)
  • 224: West 7th St-West 11th St Highway (1940-1955)
  • 225: McVay Highway (1951-)
  • 226: Goshen-Divide Highway (1957-)
  • 227: Eugene-Springfield Highway (1955-)
  • 228: Springfield Highway (1960-2019?)
  • 229: Mapleton-Junction City Highway (1966-)

Since ODOT doesn't seem to be in the mood to recycle highway numbers, it looks like they borrowed a number from a county with very few secondary highways. However, if that was the aim, they should've used a 31x number. Those were assigned to Gilliam County, but in the 89-year history of the state secondary highway system they haven't ever had one assigned to them. I don't even know offhand if they've tried. Interestingly enough, at the time the system was devised Gilliam County had 15 market roads to offer as possible corridors. OR-206 traverses three of them in whole or part: #4 (Cottonwood Road, from county line to Condon), #3 (Lone Rock Road, from Condon to 5 miles E of Condon) and #13 (Condon-Heppner Road, from 5 miles E of Condon to county line). However, those roads became part of the larger Wasco-Heppner Highway #300 -- a number belonging to neighboring Sherman County. Guess ODOT must be holding out hope for Lonerock Road or Base Line/Ione to become state highways or something.

The idea to extend OR 219 up Cornell Road to Cornelius Pass Road, then up to US 30 is actually pretty logical, but I'm sure ODOT is only interested in the segment north of US 26 as a link between the two US highways.  Combined with 26 and 217, you now have a highway bypass of downtown Portland for traffic between 30 and I-5.  Not really a great route for trucks, though, given Cornelius Pass' limitations.

I figure that none of the blue route was going to transfer to ODOT anytime soon. Unlikely construction projects aside, I pretty much only meant that they might put up shields to pass travelers between the two pieces of state highway. "Might" being the operative word.

I'd been playing around with alternative numbers in my head ever since I heard of the transfer. Provided they don't extend a current route or use its highway designation for the route, I was thinking a joint designation of Alt US-26/Alt US-30 might be fun, but that also might require approval from AASHTO.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 03:16:01 AM by JasonOfORoads »
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sparker

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #279 on: March 27, 2020, 03:54:08 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If the Cornelius Pass highway were to be designated as a separate/independent entity, ODOT could conceivably re-use the number 215, which hasn't been posted since the early '50's.  Since state highways in the 200 series seem more to be deployed in clusters rather than strict geographic location, it would locate the 215-217-219 series in the same vicinity.  Just a thought!
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xonhulu

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #280 on: March 27, 2020, 08:24:46 PM »

The reason a 22x wasn't picked is because all 22x's have been "used up":
  • 220: Mapleton-Eugene Highway (1931-1966)
  • 221: Fox Hollow Highway (1931-1955)
  • 222: Springfield-Creswell Highway (1938-2018)
  • 223: Junction City-Eugene Highway (1935-1994)
  • 224: West 7th St-West 11th St Highway (1940-1955)
  • 225: McVay Highway (1951-)
  • 226: Goshen-Divide Highway (1957-)
  • 227: Eugene-Springfield Highway (1955-)
  • 228: Springfield Highway (1960-2019?)
  • 229: Mapleton-Junction City Highway (1966-)

Looking at your list, I think the problem with those numbers isn't that they've been used before for Highway numbers; it's that nearly all are currently in use as Route numbers.  Only 220 isn't currently on the books as an official Oregon Route.  I think Hwy 222 was recently relinquished to Lane County, but I don't think they ever officially removed Rte 222 from law.  OR 225 also isn't signed along South Franklin Boulevard, but the designation still exists.  So 220 would be the only available number on that list.

Historically, there was a Rte 220, serving the town of Sumpter west of Baker City, but that's been gone for decades, ever since OR 7 was re-routed onto its current route and absorbed most of it.  The little remnant is officially OR 410, so 220 is available, and probably should have been the choice for the Delta Hwy.  Oh, well.

If the Cornelius Pass highway were to be designated as a separate/independent entity, ODOT could conceivably re-use the number 215, which hasn't been posted since the early '50's.  Since state highways in the 200 series seem more to be deployed in clusters rather than strict geographic location, it would locate the 215-217-219 series in the same vicinity.  Just a thought!

The problem with 215 is that it's currently in use as a Hwy #: Clear Lake-Belknap Springs Highway #215, which carries OR 126 from the McKenzie Hwy near Belknap Springs up to US 20 west of Santiam Jct.  ODOT would not want to add to its list of roads that have inconsistent Hwy and Rte #'s.

I like Tarkus' suggestion of Hwy/Rte 145 for the Cornelius Pass Hwy.  Not currently in use and checks all the boxes.  Someone should suggest it to ODOT before they designate it Hwy 133!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 09:02:01 PM by xonhulu »
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Bickendan

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #281 on: March 28, 2020, 08:00:28 AM »

It'd have to be mentioned to the OTC. They're the ones that decide route/hwy numbers.
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xonhulu

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #282 on: July 22, 2020, 12:37:51 PM »

Looks like the designation for Cornelius Pass Rd will be OR 127.  So they are going with a Multnomah County #, not Washington County.

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/projects/pages/project-details.aspx?project=CornPassTransfer

Quote
The Oregon Department of Transportation is preparing to assume ownership of NW Cornelius Pass Road between U.S. 30 and U.S. 26 through a process called a jurisdictional transfer. Multnomah County and Washington County currently manage this road. This transfer is part of Keep Oregon Moving (HB 2017), the large transportation package passed through the State Legislature in 2017.

After the jurisdictional transfer, there will be changes to how projects are planned, designed, funded and delivered, how road maintenance is prioritized, and in the official name of the road. NW Cornelius Pass Road will officially be Oregon 127 and will have a new highway name in addition to being known as Cornelius Pass Road.

I just drove it yesterday, although I had to detour all the Multnomah County section, which is closed for the construction project.  No 127 signage I could see, but I didn't expect to see any since the transfer hasn't occurred yet.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 12:42:05 PM by xonhulu »
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Re: Oregon
« Reply #283 on: July 22, 2020, 03:37:35 PM »

^^^^
Any ideas what the new highway name might be?

One area I'm continually jealous of Oregon and California: Washington rarely utilizes highway names. The damn 99 tunnel is still known as the "Alaskan Way Viaduct Replacement Tunnel". Really rolls off the tongue...
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xonhulu

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #284 on: July 22, 2020, 04:15:59 PM »

Any ideas what the new highway name might be?

I had been assuming it would just be the Cornelius Pass Hwy, but that project paper makes me wonder.  Now I'm wondering if it won't end up with some boring name like the Burlington-Hillsboro Hwy or something equally unimaginative.  Which brings me to:

Quote
One area I'm continually jealous of Oregon and California: Washington rarely utilizes highway names. The damn 99 tunnel is still known as the "Alaskan Way Viaduct Replacement Tunnel". Really rolls off the tongue...

That is pretty cumbersome.  It sounds like an early working name for the tunnel, and nobody bothered to come up with a better, more concise name afterwards.  Plenty of possibilities come to mind, like Waterfront Tunnel, Downtown Tunnel, City Tunnel, etc.  Or name it after a locally- or nationally-known individual.  Heck, they could just call it the 99 Tunnel! 

But don't be too jealous.  For all the good, short, concise names for highways in Oregon, like Ochoco Hwy, Redwood Hwy, Sunset Hwy, there are just as many that are pretty dull, just listing the two towns the highway links, like the Hillsboro-Silverton Hwy, Corvallis-Newport Hwy, Ukiah-Hilgard Hwy, etc.
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Bruce

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #285 on: July 22, 2020, 06:03:12 PM »

WSDOT just uses SR 99 Tunnel now, as do most local media outlets.

I suspect the original plan was to have an official name, but the whole controversy over the tunnel might have put the kibosh on it for a few years.

We do need more meaningful and well-used names in Washington. Valley Freeway (SR 167) is pretty much the only freeway in the Seattle area with a current and popular name.

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #286 on: July 22, 2020, 09:08:49 PM »

WSDOT just uses SR 99 Tunnel now, as do most local media outlets.

I suspect the original plan was to have an official name, but the whole controversy over the tunnel might have put the kibosh on it for a few years.

We do need more meaningful and well-used names in Washington. Valley Freeway (SR 167) is pretty much the only freeway in the Seattle area with a current and popular name.

And it's the only regional freeway that for the most part sticks to a particular valley that just happens to host a sizeable portion of the Seattle area industrial facilities.  Very appropriate name, seeing as how WA otherwise didn't adopt the CA idiom of naming freeways after either their service areas (Bayshore, Eastshore), outlying destinations (Santa Ana, Ventura, San Bernardino, etc.), or, in some cases, public/historic figures (MacArthur, Nimitz).  But over time most of those devolved, at least with on-air traffic reports or TV coverage, to their numeric designations, which seems to be the default in WA as well.  But for the four years I resided in Portland, the one freeway that received regular "name recognition" was the Banfield urban section of I-84.     
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Bickendan

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #287 on: July 23, 2020, 03:27:22 AM »

The freeway portion of US 26 also is well known as the Sunset, so at least there's that.
Looks like the designation for Cornelius Pass Rd will be OR 127.  So they are going with a Multnomah County #, not Washington County.
Since it's a north-south route, its 0 point will be at its northern end, which is in Multnomah County.
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Re: Oregon
« Reply #288 on: July 23, 2020, 01:23:57 PM »

The freeway portion of US 26 also is well known as the Sunset, so at least there's that

Is it "the Sunset Freeway" or "the Sunset Highway" or just "the Sunset"?

We do need more meaningful and well-used names in Washington. Valley Freeway (SR 167) is pretty much the only freeway in the Seattle area with a current and popular name.

I think "Boeing Freeway" (WA 526) is fairly well-used?
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Re: Oregon
« Reply #289 on: July 23, 2020, 01:25:35 PM »

Sunset Highway.

Rick
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Bickendan

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #290 on: July 23, 2020, 09:38:42 PM »

The freeway portion of US 26 also is well known as the Sunset, so at least there's that

Is it "the Sunset Freeway" or "the Sunset Highway" or just "the Sunset"?

We do need more meaningful and well-used names in Washington. Valley Freeway (SR 167) is pretty much the only freeway in the Seattle area with a current and popular name.

I think "Boeing Freeway" (WA 526) is fairly well-used?
Also, how well known is WA 14 as Lewis and Clark Freeway or Evergreen Highway?
And WA 500 could easily adopt 'Orchards Freeway'...
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Re: Oregon
« Reply #291 on: July 24, 2020, 02:08:17 PM »


We do need more meaningful and well-used names in Washington. Valley Freeway (SR 167) is pretty much the only freeway in the Seattle area with a current and popular name.

I think "Boeing Freeway" (WA 526) is fairly well-used?

It is indeed, along with "Mukilteo Speedway" for WA 525, though only part of the route is freeway.

I'm sure if we could come up with some decent names for the rest of them, might post a list to the Washington thread a bit later if I can come up with some good ones.
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Re: Oregon
« Reply #292 on: July 29, 2020, 07:41:50 AM »

Also, how well known is WA 14 as Lewis and Clark Freeway or Evergreen Highway?
Absolutely no one. Nobody calls it the Lewis and Clark, and Evergreen Hwy refers to the older roadway that parallels much of SR 14.

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #293 on: July 30, 2020, 05:52:22 AM »

Also, how well known is WA 14 as Lewis and Clark Freeway or Evergreen Highway?
Absolutely no one. Nobody calls it the Lewis and Clark, and Evergreen Hwy refers to the older roadway that parallels much of SR 14.
See, consternation here...
The Portland Thomas Guide has consistently called the SR 14 freeway 'Lewis and Clark' from 1994 to 2012 (the final edition before RMN pulled the plug), and the non-freeway portion (eg, from Camas east) the Evergreen Highway, though the later editions seemed to apply the L&C designation further east as well.
I'll grant that locally it's not referred to as such, but I question the absolute.
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Re: Oregon
« Reply #294 on: July 30, 2020, 10:42:38 PM »

Also, how well known is WA 14 as Lewis and Clark Freeway or Evergreen Highway?
Absolutely no one. Nobody calls it the Lewis and Clark, and Evergreen Hwy refers to the older roadway that parallels much of SR 14.
See, consternation here...
The Portland Thomas Guide has consistently called the SR 14 freeway 'Lewis and Clark' from 1994 to 2012 (the final edition before RMN pulled the plug), and the non-freeway portion (eg, from Camas east) the Evergreen Highway, though the later editions seemed to apply the L&C designation further east as well.
I'll grant that locally it's not referred to as such, but I question the absolute.

Looks like Google Maps shows them as well, not that that's worth much.

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Re: Oregon
« Reply #295 on: October 11, 2020, 08:51:12 PM »

There are now a pair of OR 132 shields posted on the Delta Hwy in Eugene, one in each direction.  No mention of 132 on either I-105 or OR 569 at their junctions with Delta Hwy, though. 

I imagine the Beltline/Delta interchange will get all new signs when its major rebuild is finished, and 132 will likely be noted from 569 then.

Also from the Eugene area: the signs at the new roundabout (actually a double roundabout!) where BUS 126 junctions with unsigned OR 225 now identify that road as "McVay Highway," its ODOT designation, instead of "S Franklin Blvd," as it was previously noted.  However, nowhere along McVay Hwy were there any OR 225 shields.  I'm pretty sure this highway is on ODOT's relinquishment list, so I expect it'll never be signed.  On the other hand, the nearby OR 528 is also on that list, and it's still pretty well-signed, so who knows?
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