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Author Topic: Kickapoo Turnpike  (Read 2887 times)

Bobby5280

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2019, 08:15:20 PM »

I think Plutonic Panda was only talking about the satellite imagery that can be displayed in Google Maps. The satellite imagery often seems to be updated in Google Earth first and then the imagery winds up in Google Maps later. The mapping service isn't going to add in the actual road listing until some time after it is finished.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2019, 08:30:17 PM »

I think Plutonic Panda was only talking about the satellite imagery that can be displayed in Google Maps. The satellite imagery often seems to be updated in Google Earth first and then the imagery winds up in Google Maps later. The mapping service isn't going to add in the actual road listing until some time after it is finished.

Ah, that makes more sense.

I've often wondered why it is that Earth gets new imagery first, or why it is there's any discrepancy at all. Then again, I've also wondered why it is Google has two services that are getting ever closer in providing the same service. But I digress.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2019, 09:16:54 PM »

I think Plutonic Panda was only talking about the satellite imagery that can be displayed in Google Maps. The satellite imagery often seems to be updated in Google Earth first and then the imagery winds up in Google Maps later. The mapping service isn't going to add in the actual road listing until some time after it is finished.
Correct.

I find it weird Google only updated the peripheral of the city. I’m not aware of them ever doing this before.
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1

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2019, 09:25:52 PM »

I think Plutonic Panda was only talking about the satellite imagery that can be displayed in Google Maps. The satellite imagery often seems to be updated in Google Earth first and then the imagery winds up in Google Maps later. The mapping service isn't going to add in the actual road listing until some time after it is finished.

Ah, that makes more sense.

I've often wondered why it is that Earth gets new imagery first, or why it is there's any discrepancy at all. Then again, I've also wondered why it is Google has two services that are getting ever closer in providing the same service. But I digress.

Three. Google owns Waze.
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Bobby5280

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2019, 11:57:59 PM »

Quote from: MNHighwayMan
I've often wondered why it is that Earth gets new imagery first, or why it is there's any discrepancy at all. Then again, I've also wondered why it is Google has two services that are getting ever closer in providing the same service. But I digress.

Quote from: 1
Three. Google owns Waze.

Technically it might be four. Google maintains two different versions of Google Earth. There's the desktop app (which I think for most people was converted over to the "pro" version). And then there's the web browser based version of Google Earth. Add Google Maps and Waze to that.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda
I find it weird Google only updated the peripheral of the city. I’m not aware of them ever doing this before.

I've seen other oddities overlaid on other big metros. The "pretty earth" algorithm can do only so much when there's literally a patch work of different imagery updates just within the same zip code. One nice thing is that the satellite imagery updates seems to be ever more frequent -at least for the big cities. That even goes for Street View imagery. Smaller cities and towns are updated less often. A lot of desolate areas may have satellite or Street View imagery dating back to last decade when the imagery was of far lower quality.
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Chris

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2019, 07:36:03 AM »

Google Earth and Google Maps often use the best quality imagery as the default imagery, especially in urban centers. There is often newer imagery in the 'historic imagery' layer in Google Earth.

Activating the historical imagery layer forces the most recent imagery to show, but with one exception: new imagery doesn't always show up in the historical imagery layer immediately.

For example the current default imagery in Oklahoma City is dated 12/13/2017, but if you activate the historical imagery layer, there is a newer image from January 2018. However if you go to eastern Oklahoma County, the default imagery is dated 11/19/2018, but if you activate the historical imagery layer, the newest is from January 2018, because that new image has not been transferred to the historical imagery layer yet.

There are many quirks with Google Earth.

By the way the November 2018 imagery also shows a major I-40 project between the EOC Turnpike and I-240. I assume it is tied to the construction of the turnpike?

okc1

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2019, 08:53:26 AM »


By the way the November 2018 imagery also shows a major I-40 project between the EOC Turnpike and I-240. I assume it is tied to the construction of the turnpike?
It is part of an overall widening of I-40 from OKC to Shawnee. The turnpike authority is doing the 2 miles or so around the turnpike, ODOT the rest.
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rte66man

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2019, 09:17:02 PM »


By the way the November 2018 imagery also shows a major I-40 project between the EOC Turnpike and I-240. I assume it is tied to the construction of the turnpike?
It is part of an overall widening of I-40 from OKC to Shawnee. The turnpike authority is doing the 2 miles or so around the turnpike, ODOT the rest.

Not exactly.  ODOT is completely rebuilding I40 east from the I240 junction to Harrah-Newalla Road. Taking out the original 1960's concrete, replacing it with 6 lanes instead of 4, completely redesigning and rebuilding the very busy Choctaw Road interchange, and replacing the section line bridges over I40.  OTA is only responsible for the I40/EOC interchange near Luther Road.

Once this section is completed, they will continue east with the rebuilding and widening. It will likely be decades before it get to Shawnee but that is their intent.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2019, 12:52:08 AM »


By the way the November 2018 imagery also shows a major I-40 project between the EOC Turnpike and I-240. I assume it is tied to the construction of the turnpike?
It is part of an overall widening of I-40 from OKC to Shawnee. The turnpike authority is doing the 2 miles or so around the turnpike, ODOT the rest.

Not exactly.  ODOT is completely rebuilding I40 east from the I240 junction to Harrah-Newalla Road. Taking out the original 1960's concrete, replacing it with 6 lanes instead of 4, completely redesigning and rebuilding the very busy Choctaw Road interchange, and replacing the section line bridges over I40.  OTA is only responsible for the I40/EOC interchange near Luther Road.

Once this section is completed, they will continue east with the rebuilding and widening. It will likely be decades before it get to Shawnee but that is their intent.
I bet it gets to Shawnee in 5-7 years. Isn’t there a big project here coming up 2021? What is the deal with the section between Tinker AFB and I-240?
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Bobby5280

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2019, 01:23:08 AM »

The old cloverleaf intersection with I-40 and Douglas Boulevard by Tinker AFB is going to be converted into a SPUI. And I-40 is supposed to be widened to either 3 or 4 lanes in each direction through that intersection. Construction on that project wasn't scheduled to start until late 2019 or early 2020.
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rte66man

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2019, 07:24:12 AM »

The old cloverleaf intersection with I-40 and Douglas Boulevard by Tinker AFB is going to be converted into a SPUI. And I-40 is supposed to be widened to either 3 or 4 lanes in each direction through that intersection. Construction on that project wasn't scheduled to start until late 2019 or early 2020.

It was scheduled to go out for bid earlier this year but was pulled during the government shutdown.  I do not believe it's been rescheduled yet.
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rte66man

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2019, 07:29:16 AM »

What is the deal with the section between Tinker AFB and I-240?

As you can tell from the maps, they have a real problem squeezing a lane expansion between SE29th on the north and Tinker on the south.  The obvious candidate is Tinker but I do not believe they can just get the land via eminent domain. 

What they SHOULD do is completely rebuild it from Hudiburg Drive east to the Douglas Blvd exit.  They can address the curve over SE29th, rationalize the Air Depot and Town Center exits, and make it six lanes throughout.  That would be quite expensive though.
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X99

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2019, 11:47:40 AM »

Google Maps has updated to show the northern section of the turnpike under construction south of Luther.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: EOC Turnpike
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2019, 05:34:05 PM »

^^^ it’s been updated for several months now maybe even close to a year. Google has been really slow to update imagery lately.
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bugo

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2019, 08:30:10 PM »

What will they do with the "old" turnpike/street stub extension that ends at SW 15th Street? It looks like it could be retained as a northbound onramp to I-40 east. It doesn't really go anywhere else.
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bugo

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2019, 05:03:59 AM »



I think chances are slim this rural turnpike will get an Interstate designation. Most likely it will get another OK-3XX designation, if it gets a highway number at all.

I don't like those tiny cloverleaf ramps at both the I-44 and I-40 interchanges. Cheap cheap cheap.

...from their past record with the pre-existing designation of US 69, they could care less.

What do you mean?

I don't expect this road to carry much traffic at all until it is extended to I-35 to the south. If/when it is completed, I-35 should be routed onto it.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2019, 10:24:53 AM »

The I-35 designation thru Oklahoma City needs to stay put. If the Kickapoo Turnpike is ever extended North to I-35 between Guthrie and Edmond as well as South to the Norman area the route would only be worthy of a 3-digit I-x35 designation, if it warranted one at all.

If the project is mostly or entirely funded via the OTA and turnpike bonds then the feds really have no businesses sticking one of their route markers on it. It would end up being a state-named highway, like what happened to the Creek Turnpike (OK-364) and Muskogee Turnpike (OK-351). A whole bunch of this type of thing is happening in Texas and other states too.
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Scott5114

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2019, 02:49:29 PM »

If the project is mostly or entirely funded via the OTA and turnpike bonds then the feds really have no businesses sticking one of their route markers on it. It would end up being a state-named highway, like what happened to the Creek Turnpike (OK-364) and Muskogee Turnpike (OK-351). A whole bunch of this type of thing is happening in Texas and other states too.

The "feds" have no say in this—the state would have to request an Interstate designation and be approved for it. Such a designation has nothing to do with who funded the route, in any event.
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sparker

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2019, 05:55:07 PM »

The I-35 designation thru Oklahoma City needs to stay put. If the Kickapoo Turnpike is ever extended North to I-35 between Guthrie and Edmond as well as South to the Norman area the route would only be worthy of a 3-digit I-x35 designation, if it warranted one at all.

If the project is mostly or entirely funded via the OTA and turnpike bonds then the feds really have no businesses sticking one of their route markers on it. It would end up being a state-named highway, like what happened to the Creek Turnpike (OK-364) and Muskogee Turnpike (OK-351). A whole bunch of this type of thing is happening in Texas and other states too.
If the project is mostly or entirely funded via the OTA and turnpike bonds then the feds really have no businesses sticking one of their route markers on it. It would end up being a state-named highway, like what happened to the Creek Turnpike (OK-364) and Muskogee Turnpike (OK-351). A whole bunch of this type of thing is happening in Texas and other states too.

The "feds" have no say in this—the state would have to request an Interstate designation and be approved for it. Such a designation has nothing to do with who funded the route, in any event.

Given recent ODOT history, particularly in the Tulsa/Muskogee area, the thing will likely be designated as a 3xx state auxiliary of a major intersecting route -- I'd venture to guess OK 340, 344, or even 362 -- and if it curves over to I-35, perhaps 335.   
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Bobby5280

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2019, 01:25:35 AM »

Quote from: Scott5114
The "feds" have no say in this—the state would have to request an Interstate designation and be approved for it. Such a designation has nothing to do with who funded the route, in any event.

In the unlikely scenario of a rep from the FHWA or whatever visiting the finished product and telling people at the OTA, "shouldn't this fine route be carrying an Interstate number like 'I-435'?" The OTA folks should answer, "#$%! off, you didn't pay for it, so you don't get to stick your federal brand on it! State's rights, biattcchh!"
:D
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sparker

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2019, 05:39:40 PM »

Quote from: Scott5114
The "feds" have no say in this—the state would have to request an Interstate designation and be approved for it. Such a designation has nothing to do with who funded the route, in any event.

In the unlikely scenario of a rep from the FHWA or whatever visiting the finished product and telling people at the OTA, "shouldn't this fine route be carrying an Interstate number like 'I-435'?" The OTA folks should answer, "#$%! off, you didn't pay for it, so you don't get to stick your federal brand on it! State's rights, biattcchh!"
:D

Very unlikely someone from FHWA would even get off their duff to promote an Interstate designation on anything these days.  They certainly haven't pressed the issue in the Phoenix area despite the multitude of Interstate-grade bypasses and connectors.  And the lack of "I-844" or the like on the Fitzpatrick, although it is a nice little functional OKC bypass, doesn't portend the deployment of red, white, and blue shields on any additional or upcoming toll facilities. 
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Scott5114

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2019, 11:50:37 PM »

And the lack of "I-844" or the like on the Fitzpatrick

do what
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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2019, 01:07:35 AM »

I am a little surprised the Kilpatrick didn’t get an Oklahoma state highway number when the Creek and Muskogee did, especially given the similarity between it and the Creek. I’d be curious if that’s going to happen in the future...SH-344, perhaps?
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sparker

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2019, 01:38:51 AM »

Jeez -- I got the turnpike name wrong (and I'm 1/4 Irish; clan Downs -- should know the difference between Fitzpatrick and Kilpatrick!); definitely my bad -- need to stop posting on short work breaks when my brain's elsewhere!  That being said, I concur with the number 344 for the Kilpatrick pike; wonder if ODOT will ever get around to it.   The upcoming Kickapoo pike might be most appropriately served by the number 340; ironically, my "fantasy" number for the Muskogee Turnpike/OK 351 has long been I-340!
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Scott5114

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Re: Kickapoo Turnpike
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2019, 02:55:09 AM »

Given the numbers given to the Tulsa-area turnpikes, I'd imagine that the Kilpatrick would get either 303 or 374 (or 377, because why not make things worse), and the Kickapoo would get 362. If they had been wanting to follow Interstate rules, we'd have a 344 and a 340 already.

Edit: We, in fact, have a 344 already. I just found that the Transportation Commission commissioned SH-344 for the Gilcrease Expressway in June 2018. (This was previously shown as a possible future SH-12 on ODOT planning documents, I believe.)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 02:59:03 AM by Scott5114 »
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