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Author Topic: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"  (Read 3043 times)

SP Cook

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2018, 09:29:59 AM »

KISS (and leaving out I-69 discussions) :

Audubon: US 60, current 60 becomes SR
Mountain: US 460, with 460 ending at I-64 in Winchester, current 460 becomes SR
Bluegrass: US 62, current 62 becomes SR
Cumberland: KY 80
Purchase: US 45
Natcher: US 231
Pennyrile: US 41
Western Kentucky: US 62
Hal Rogers: KY 80


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mrsman

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2018, 01:53:55 PM »

Which are those multiple highways with the parkway name closer to? Freeways or Parkways? In any event, the name "parkways" has been a part of the Kentucky highway system for decades. There's no need for a parkways-to-freeways name change.

Some of them have at-grade intersections and are therefore not full freeways.

Only the Hal Rogers, which is, for the most part, a Super-2. There's one at-grade on the Mountain Parkway's two-lane section, but it will be eliminated in favor of an interchange in the widening project.

Of course, the problem with the Mountain Parkway is that the extension from Salyersville to Prestonsburg may end up being a widening of KY 114 with all of its at-grades, and even if they build a limited-access road on a new alignment, you've got the segment in Salyersville that's going to have a bunch of traffic lights.

In terms of terminology, the routes are definitely not like the NYC parkways, which prohibit commercial traffic.

If this is indeed the case, it seems to me that these roadways should be renumbered as non-chargeable interstates.  From what I can tell, they all connect to the interstate highways like I-65, I-69, and I-75.  Plus, there is no reason that the roadways could not be referred to by both names and numbers.  In NYC and Chicago prominent freeways like the I-495 Long Island Expressway and the I-90/94 Dan Ryan Expressway are referred to by both name and number, including on the highway signs.

The interstate shields are great indications that these are high quality roadways for efficient movement.

And there is no reason why these roads can't maintain the name parkway.  There are interstate quality freeways with the name parkway as it is.  One example is the I-376 Penn-Lincoln Parkway in Pittsburgh.
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2018, 09:59:38 PM »

^^^^

There are issues with portions of the roads not meeting current interstate standards, even excluding the old toll booth cloverleaf interchanges. Mostly bridge clearances, exit/entrance accel/decel lanes, and so on. This is why substantial work had to be done before I-69 could be signed.
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mrsman

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2018, 10:53:34 PM »

^^^^

There are issues with portions of the roads not meeting current interstate standards, even excluding the old toll booth cloverleaf interchanges. Mostly bridge clearances, exit/entrance accel/decel lanes, and so on. This is why substantial work had to be done before I-69 could be signed.

Then the next best approach would be to number them as state highway 3dis.*  And it would be extra helpful if those highways had unique shields to distinguish between surface level state highways.  The signage and numbering can still be used to indicate that they are at least informally part of the national highway network and that significant long-distance travel can use them and not limit thesmselves to I-65 and I-75.



*  What I mean by state highway 3dis are highways that are numbered as 3dis, but are still state routes.  There are a number of these out there.  CC 215 near Las Vegas, CA 905 near San Diego,  VA 895 in Richmond, NY 878 near NYC's JFK Airport.  Then, there are examples of non-qualifying extensions of interstate highways like I-210/CA 210 in California, I-295/MD 295 in Baltimore/DC area.
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roadman65

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2018, 10:57:48 PM »

I do not see why it still cannot be a Parkway despite the interstates.

Also is the Western Kentucky solo east of I-69 ever to become I-66?  If I remember that correctly the current I-69 on the Western Kentucky would have been a two interstate concurrency along with I-24 having a three interstate concurrency.

I heard it was dead for lack of support, but it Kentucky still going to keep the possibility alive though?
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2018, 11:12:13 AM »

I do not see why it still cannot be a Parkway despite the interstates.

Also is the Western Kentucky solo east of I-69 ever to become I-66?  If I remember that correctly the current I-69 on the Western Kentucky would have been a two interstate concurrency along with I-24 having a three interstate concurrency.

I heard it was dead for lack of support, but it Kentucky still going to keep the possibility alive though?

The settled I-66 corridor followed the Cumberland Parkway, and then the Natcher, to intersect the WK. There was a discussion about using the Hal Rogers and Cumberland vs. I-64 and the Bluegrass, and in the end the southern route won.
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Bitmapped

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2018, 09:53:00 PM »

^^^^

There are issues with portions of the roads not meeting current interstate standards, even excluding the old toll booth cloverleaf interchanges. Mostly bridge clearances, exit/entrance accel/decel lanes, and so on. This is why substantial work had to be done before I-69 could be signed.

Then the next best approach would be to number them as state highway 3dis.*  And it would be extra helpful if those highways had unique shields to distinguish between surface level state highways.  The signage and numbering can still be used to indicate that they are at least informally part of the national highway network and that significant long-distance travel can use them and not limit thesmselves to I-65 and I-75.

As SP Cook noted, there are existing US routes and major state routes that parallel these corridors. It makes a lot more sense (to me, at least) to move these routes onto the parkways rather than designate new numbers. As an example, KY 80 is a major high-quality route across Kentucky except where it parallels the Cumberland and Hal Rogers Parkways. Move it onto the parkways so it is a major route across the state.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 11:57:05 AM by Bitmapped »
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sparker

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2018, 02:41:46 AM »

I do not see why it still cannot be a Parkway despite the interstates.

Also is the Western Kentucky solo east of I-69 ever to become I-66?  If I remember that correctly the current I-69 on the Western Kentucky would have been a two interstate concurrency along with I-24 having a three interstate concurrency.

I heard it was dead for lack of support, but it Kentucky still going to keep the possibility alive though?

The settled I-66 corridor followed the Cumberland Parkway, and then the Natcher, to intersect the WK. There was a discussion about using the Hal Rogers and Cumberland vs. I-64 and the Bluegrass, and in the end the southern route won.

IIRC, the Natcher/WKY I-66 routing was suggested (particularly after the combination WKY/Pennyrile alignment was chosen for I-69) but never finalized.  And now that the Natcher is legally designated as future I-165; that in itself would tend to indicate that the nails are ready for the coffin regarding that alignment for I-66 west of I-65.  Perhaps the originally conceived alignment along US 68/KY 80 might be resurrected at least as far west as I-24.

And I certainly agree with HB's oft-expressed sentiment that any I-66 (or other) extension in the western tip of the state should include a direct bridge into MO from somewhere in the Wickliffe area.   
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seicer

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2018, 07:38:07 AM »

They can always redesignate it, if need be.
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2018, 10:57:38 AM »

And I certainly agree with HB's oft-expressed sentiment that any I-66 (or other) extension in the western tip of the state should include a direct bridge into MO from somewhere in the Wickliffe area.   

Both of those bridges at Cairo are ancient, in addition to being substandard in terms of width. Meeting a tractor-trailer on them isn't exactly fun. There's a viable detour for the Mississippi bridge; that being I-57 a few miles to the north. There's no good detour for the Ohio bridge, and the road is subject to flooding between Wickliffe and the bridge. I could be convinced that instead of building a new Mississippi crossing directly from Kentucky, a new Ohio crossing and a connection to I-57 would suffice. But that would require cooperation from IDiOT ($1 to Brandon).
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seicer

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2018, 02:35:17 PM »

The Cairo Bridge coming from Kentucky is slated for either overhaul or replacement. I'll miss the old cantilever truss but yeah, meeting a truck on there isn't fun.
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sparker

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2018, 04:25:51 PM »

And I certainly agree with HB's oft-expressed sentiment that any I-66 (or other) extension in the western tip of the state should include a direct bridge into MO from somewhere in the Wickliffe area.   

Both of those bridges at Cairo are ancient, in addition to being substandard in terms of width. Meeting a tractor-trailer on them isn't exactly fun. There's a viable detour for the Mississippi bridge; that being I-57 a few miles to the north. There's no good detour for the Ohio bridge, and the road is subject to flooding between Wickliffe and the bridge. I could be convinced that instead of building a new Mississippi crossing directly from Kentucky, a new Ohio crossing and a connection to I-57 would suffice. But that would require cooperation from IDiOT ($1 to Brandon).

Given their precarious financial straits, it would seem that cooperation from MODOT would be something of a crapshoot as well; it appears that bypassing Cairo and its old bridges -- regardless of specific location -- will be problematic (when you don't have your choice of neighbors, that can always be an issue!).
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Brandon

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2018, 03:19:17 PM »

KISS (and leaving out I-69 discussions) :

Audubon: US 60, current 60 becomes SR
Mountain: US 460, with 460 ending at I-64 in Winchester, current 460 becomes SR
Bluegrass: US 62, current 62 becomes SR
Cumberland: KY 80
Purchase: US 45
Natcher: US 231
Pennyrile: US 41
Western Kentucky: US 62
Hal Rogers: KY 80

Best idea of the thread.  There is no reason they cannot be US (and State) route freeways a la US-31, US-131, US-23, US-10 in Michigan.  Not everything needs an I-number.  But moving the parallel routes, especially the US-routes, over to the freeway is always a great idea.
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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2018, 06:14:41 PM »

Does Kentucky allow or disallow highway number duplications (SR/US/Interstate)?
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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2018, 06:23:43 PM »

Does Kentucky allow or disallow highway number duplications (SR/US/Interstate)?

I think the only duplication is US/KY 79 (which effectively acts as a single route), but there might be one or two I missed.
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hbelkins

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Re: Kentucky bill would rename "parkways" to "freeways"
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2018, 07:35:18 PM »

Does Kentucky allow or disallow highway number duplications (SR/US/Interstate)?

I think the only duplication is US/KY 79 (which effectively acts as a single route), but there might be one or two I missed.

Well, we have I-69 and KY 69 now. Other than that, no duplications, and I don't know if KY 69 will be changed or not. KY 24 was changed when I-24 came into existence.
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