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Author Topic: Passing on the Right  (Read 1929 times)

webny99

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2018, 11:34:45 AM »

I don't understand the concept of this thread even. If I'm in the right lane because I'm not passing anyone, like I should be, is someone expecting me to pull into the left lane and wait behind the person?
I have been known to do this. You should really both be in the right lane, but if the other party has failed to keep right, I'll move left in enough time so that they can easily see I'm coming and move right without causing me to brake. Then, voila!, I can pass on the left.

Quote
Am I supposed to move over to the left lane, over the middle lane, to pass someone in the middle lane, or just stay in the right lane?
On six-lane highways, I have also been known to go from right lane to left lane, pass a middle-lane camper, and move all the way back to the right again. This doesn't work at rush hour, or where there's exits with high frequency. But when it's possible, there's a good chance the other party notices how awkward (and unnecessary) the maneuver was and moves right of their own accord.

Now, should you bother doing this? You're certainly not obligated to do it. But me personally, I want the system to work as intended, so if I'm not pressed for time, I figure I might as well give it a shot :-P
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:38:12 AM by webny99 »
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webny99

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2018, 11:41:53 AM »

If driving at the exact same darned speed as the next lane over.... well, I've been known to use the inside shoulder, which is risky.

Sometimes, I like to do things completely out of the ordinary, because it's guaranteed to get someone's attention. You can ignore someone with their left blinker on; you can't ignore someone smoking past you on the shoulder.

kalvado

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2018, 11:47:19 AM »

On six-lane highways, I have also been known to go from right lane to left lane, pass a middle-lane camper, and move all the way back to the right again. This doesn't work at rush hour, or where there's exits with high frequency. But when it's possible, there's a good chance the other party notices how awkward (and unnecessary) the maneuver was and moves right of their own accord.

Now, should you bother doing this? You're certainly not obligated to do it. But me personally, I want the system to work as intended, so if I'm not pressed for time, I figure I might as well give it a shot :-P
Now, what do you achieve doing this, other than getting an extra ticket to "crash your car" lottery?
Of course, you can see people on a highway doing crazy things. Does it worth paying attention?
 Once upon a time I was driving close to a group of motorcyclists. One of them was doing wheelies (busy highway during commute time), trying to impress his friends. Of course he missed it when they were signalling him to exit. Poor guy rode next mile looking back and trying to locate his missing chaps. He made it alive to the next exit...   
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webny99

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2018, 11:58:34 AM »

Now, should you bother doing this? You're certainly not obligated to do it. But me personally, I want the system to work as intended, so if I'm not pressed for time, I figure I might as well give it a shot.
Now, what do you achieve doing this, other than getting an extra ticket to "crash your car" lottery? 

In theory, greater harmony with other drivers, lol  :-P

kalvado

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2018, 12:19:38 PM »

Now, should you bother doing this? You're certainly not obligated to do it. But me personally, I want the system to work as intended, so if I'm not pressed for time, I figure I might as well give it a shot.
Now, what do you achieve doing this, other than getting an extra ticket to "crash your car" lottery? 

In theory, greater harmony with other drivers, lol  :-P
Oh, driving as idiotic as they do? I hear you, bro..
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vdeane

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2018, 01:02:44 PM »

I assume you're talking about an urban area with 3 lanes?
Over here, we have a 7-mile interstate stretch within urban area (which happens to be my daily commute road) with 7 exits, two of those being interchanges with another freeway - and a lot of traffic. If you head past the last of seven exits and insist on staying in right lane, you probably caused a few people to maneuver around you. If there are few such right-bound cars in a row, one can easily face a choice of stopping on a ramp and causing a backup (and hopefully no accident), or acceleration to 30-40 MPH above speed limit to jump ahead of such queue. So yes, there are times when right lane better be used as a ramp
Well, if people would use the acceleration lane as intended (looking for and modulating their speed to slip into a gap, using the full length of the lane if necessary), we'd have a lot less congestion.  Instead, people feel as if they need to move over immediately no matter what.
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kalvado

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2018, 01:16:31 PM »

I assume you're talking about an urban area with 3 lanes?
Over here, we have a 7-mile interstate stretch within urban area (which happens to be my daily commute road) with 7 exits, two of those being interchanges with another freeway - and a lot of traffic. If you head past the last of seven exits and insist on staying in right lane, you probably caused a few people to maneuver around you. If there are few such right-bound cars in a row, one can easily face a choice of stopping on a ramp and causing a backup (and hopefully no accident), or acceleration to 30-40 MPH above speed limit to jump ahead of such queue. So yes, there are times when right lane better be used as a ramp
Well, if people would use the acceleration lane as intended (looking for and modulating their speed to slip into a gap, using the full length of the lane if necessary), we'd have a lot less congestion.  Instead, people feel as if they need to move over immediately no matter what.
If DOTs - like NYS DOT - took their time to design those ramps so that they are actually usable  (and I am thinking about spots like rt 7 west to I-87 north and I-90 west to I-87 north) we would have a much better traffic flow.. 
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kphoger

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2018, 01:22:17 PM »

I don't understand the concept of this thread even. If I'm in the right lane because I'm not passing anyone, like I should be, is someone expecting me to pull into the left lane and wait behind the person?
I have been known to do this. You should really both be in the right lane, but if the other party has failed to keep right, I'll move left in enough time so that they can easily see I'm coming and move right without causing me to brake. Then, voila!, I can pass on the left.

Quote
Am I supposed to move over to the left lane, over the middle lane, to pass someone in the middle lane, or just stay in the right lane?
On six-lane highways, I have also been known to go from right lane to left lane, pass a middle-lane camper, and move all the way back to the right again. This doesn't work at rush hour, or where there's exits with high frequency. But when it's possible, there's a good chance the other party notices how awkward (and unnecessary) the maneuver was and moves right of their own accord.

Now, should you bother doing this? You're certainly not obligated to do it. But me personally, I want the system to work as intended, so if I'm not pressed for time, I figure I might as well give it a shot :-P

I used to do these things too, but I no longer do.
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sparker

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2018, 01:23:36 PM »

On a reasonably designed multi-lane freeway facility -- a decent amount of space (at least 0.75 miles) between on-and-off ramp clusters, no sudden appearances and/or disappearances of additional lanes (including examples of the infamous "California Shift", with right lanes exiting while new general-purpose lanes are added on the left side of the carriageway), and very clear and frequent signage indicating that a lane is restricted-use (HOV and the like) during specified periods -- some sort of left-to-right speed ordering can be expected.  From experience it appears that drivers who utilize a freeway as a "shortcut" between neighborhoods in an urban area, entering the freeway only to exit it a ramp or two later, tend to stick with the right lane -- and also tend toward slower-than-average speeds.  This tends to place these virtual "road boulders" on the right; other traffic entering the freeway for longer distance travel invariably moves as far left as possible to avoid these issues; an ad hoc L-R speed ordering occurs.

The problem is that current freeway configuration in urban areas, particularly out here in CA, tends to not observe the conditions outlined above; what remains -- particularly with closely-spaced interchanges and lane drops/additions, often, except during congestion periods where speed differentials are virtually impossible and inconsequential -- resembles chaos -- and certainly not the controlled kind!  Add to that phenomena such as sweeper trains, almost continuous construction/reconstruction efforts, and the like; any semblance of ordering devolves to "every driver for themselves".  By contrast, rural multilane stretches, unless occuplied by those drivers, commercial or otherwise, who have no recognition of their operating environment, seem to lend themselves to a much more ordered operating system.  Left-lane "campers", save the ones described above, find themselves with other vehicles virtually "driving up their ass", so unless they're oblivious, they'll move over as a matter of course. 

I don't see urban freeways -- unless a large-scale reconfiguration takes place -- lending themselves to a regular expression of speed ordering; there are just too many variables to consider; enforcement wouldn't be and probably is not a feasible solution there.  On rural freeways & highways, particularly the 2+2 facilities that dominate the genre, some level of enforcement is at least marginally feasible, particularly in egregious cases.   
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vdeane

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2018, 02:23:32 PM »

I assume you're talking about an urban area with 3 lanes?
Over here, we have a 7-mile interstate stretch within urban area (which happens to be my daily commute road) with 7 exits, two of those being interchanges with another freeway - and a lot of traffic. If you head past the last of seven exits and insist on staying in right lane, you probably caused a few people to maneuver around you. If there are few such right-bound cars in a row, one can easily face a choice of stopping on a ramp and causing a backup (and hopefully no accident), or acceleration to 30-40 MPH above speed limit to jump ahead of such queue. So yes, there are times when right lane better be used as a ramp
Well, if people would use the acceleration lane as intended (looking for and modulating their speed to slip into a gap, using the full length of the lane if necessary), we'd have a lot less congestion.  Instead, people feel as if they need to move over immediately no matter what.
If DOTs - like NYS DOT - took their time to design those ramps so that they are actually usable  (and I am thinking about spots like rt 7 west to I-87 north and I-90 west to I-87 north) we would have a much better traffic flow.. 
I don't think the geometry on those ramps forces people to go significantly slow.  I don't need to slow down at all for I-90 west to I-87 north (at least not if I'm not stuck behind someone).  I don't have reason to travel NY 7 west to I-87 north much, but it doesn't look too different.  That last curve might require going 50, but that's not hard, and there's plenty of acceleration lane.  I don't understand why Capital District drivers feel the need to go no faster than 40 until they've already merged into traffic, regardless of ramp geometry.

Or maybe it's because I drive a sedan instead of the SUVs that seem to get more common every year.  I know from driving the Dodge Caravan for some data services tasks that what feels slow to me often feels fast in a larger vehicle.
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webny99

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2018, 03:00:10 PM »

I have been known to do this. You should really both be in the right lane, but if the other party has failed to keep right, I'll move left in enough time so that they can easily see I'm coming and move right without causing me to brake. Then, voila!, I can pass on the left.

On six-lane highways, I have also been known to go from right lane to left lane, pass a middle-lane camper, and move all the way back to the right again.
I used to do these things too, but I no longer do.

This leaves me curious as to why. An internal factor, like becoming more mature (or something  :)), or an external one, like a near-accident?

kalvado

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2018, 03:06:51 PM »

I assume you're talking about an urban area with 3 lanes?
Over here, we have a 7-mile interstate stretch within urban area (which happens to be my daily commute road) with 7 exits, two of those being interchanges with another freeway - and a lot of traffic. If you head past the last of seven exits and insist on staying in right lane, you probably caused a few people to maneuver around you. If there are few such right-bound cars in a row, one can easily face a choice of stopping on a ramp and causing a backup (and hopefully no accident), or acceleration to 30-40 MPH above speed limit to jump ahead of such queue. So yes, there are times when right lane better be used as a ramp
Well, if people would use the acceleration lane as intended (looking for and modulating their speed to slip into a gap, using the full length of the lane if necessary), we'd have a lot less congestion.  Instead, people feel as if they need to move over immediately no matter what.
If DOTs - like NYS DOT - took their time to design those ramps so that they are actually usable  (and I am thinking about spots like rt 7 west to I-87 north and I-90 west to I-87 north) we would have a much better traffic flow.. 
I don't think the geometry on those ramps forces people to go significantly slow.  I don't need to slow down at all for I-90 west to I-87 north (at least not if I'm not stuck behind someone).  I don't have reason to travel NY 7 west to I-87 north much, but it doesn't look too different.  That last curve might require going 50, but that's not hard, and there's plenty of acceleration lane.  I don't understand why Capital District drivers feel the need to go no faster than 40 until they've already merged into traffic, regardless of ramp geometry.

Or maybe it's because I drive a sedan instead of the SUVs that seem to get more common every year.  I know from driving the Dodge Caravan for some data services tasks that what feels slow to me often feels fast in a larger vehicle.
It all works if there is enough room to merge without lane dropping into congestion mode. Now with plenty of people trying to get to exit 2, and a few idiots who just want to keep right it quickly goes into a mode when overall traffic flow speed drops. My favorite graph, you know.
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kphoger

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2018, 03:14:18 PM »

I have been known to do this. You should really both be in the right lane, but if the other party has failed to keep right, I'll move left in enough time so that they can easily see I'm coming and move right without causing me to brake. Then, voila!, I can pass on the left.

On six-lane highways, I have also been known to go from right lane to left lane, pass a middle-lane camper, and move all the way back to the right again.
I used to do these things too, but I no longer do.

This leaves me curious as to why. An internal factor, like becoming more mature (or something  :)), or an external one, like a near-accident?

Because I realized it's pointless.
I now pass in the right lane but glare at the driver through my window.  That actually has more effect.
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webny99

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2018, 03:21:39 PM »

I now pass in the right lane but glare at the driver through my window.  That actually has more effect.

I have done this on occasion, but generally speaking, I don't have the patience to pass them slowly enough to ensure they've seen my glare*.
 
*Which, among other features, includes sticking my teeth out in a beaver-like fashion.

kphoger

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2018, 03:34:31 PM »

*Which, among other features, includes sticking my teeth out in a beaver-like fashion.

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jeffandnicole

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2018, 03:44:33 PM »

I assume you're talking about an urban area with 3 lanes?
Over here, we have a 7-mile interstate stretch within urban area (which happens to be my daily commute road) with 7 exits, two of those being interchanges with another freeway - and a lot of traffic. If you head past the last of seven exits and insist on staying in right lane, you probably caused a few people to maneuver around you. If there are few such right-bound cars in a row, one can easily face a choice of stopping on a ramp and causing a backup (and hopefully no accident), or acceleration to 30-40 MPH above speed limit to jump ahead of such queue. So yes, there are times when right lane better be used as a ramp
Well, if people would use the acceleration lane as intended (looking for and modulating their speed to slip into a gap, using the full length of the lane if necessary), we'd have a lot less congestion.  Instead, people feel as if they need to move over immediately no matter what.
If DOTs - like NYS DOT - took their time to design those ramps so that they are actually usable  (and I am thinking about spots like rt 7 west to I-87 north and I-90 west to I-87 north) we would have a much better traffic flow.. 
I don't think the geometry on those ramps forces people to go significantly slow.  I don't need to slow down at all for I-90 west to I-87 north (at least not if I'm not stuck behind someone).  I don't have reason to travel NY 7 west to I-87 north much, but it doesn't look too different.  That last curve might require going 50, but that's not hard, and there's plenty of acceleration lane.  I don't understand why Capital District drivers feel the need to go no faster than 40 until they've already merged into traffic, regardless of ramp geometry.

Or maybe it's because I drive a sedan instead of the SUVs that seem to get more common every year.  I know from driving the Dodge Caravan for some data services tasks that what feels slow to me often feels fast in a larger vehicle.
It all works if there is enough room to merge without lane dropping into congestion mode. Now with plenty of people trying to get to exit 2, and a few idiots who just want to keep right it quickly goes into a mode when overall traffic flow speed drops. My favorite graph, you know.


Hah.  This clearly isn't representative of drivers used to heavy traffic conditions.  Driving 75 mph at, maybe, 2 car lengths behind each other?  Completely normal.  Being the graphic doesn't even shown anyone driving over 62 mph, I can't see it being a very realistic graph anymore.

I'm guessing that graphic was made when the national speed limit was 65 mph.
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kalvado

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2018, 04:20:43 PM »

Hah.  This clearly isn't representative of drivers used to heavy traffic conditions.  Driving 75 mph at, maybe, 2 car lengths behind each other?  Completely normal.  Being the graphic doesn't even shown anyone driving over 62 mph, I can't see it being a very realistic graph anymore.

I'm guessing that graphic was made when the national speed limit was 65 mph.
There are many similar graphs for different speed limits, locations and conditions. Some very best situations push 2400 vph, but overall trend is the same.
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webny99

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2018, 04:21:35 PM »

*Which, among other features, includes sticking my teeth out in a beaver-like fashion.
[img snipped]

Am I supposed to recognize that person? (or is it a selfie?)

kphoger

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2018, 04:25:07 PM »

*Which, among other features, includes sticking my teeth out in a beaver-like fashion.
[img snipped]http://

Am I supposed to recognize that person? (or is it a selfie?)

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jakeroot

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2018, 05:19:31 PM »

Hah.  This clearly isn't representative of drivers used to heavy traffic conditions.  Driving 75 mph at, maybe, 2 car lengths behind each other?  Completely normal.  Being the graphic doesn't even shown anyone driving over 62 mph, I can't see it being a very realistic graph anymore.

I'm guessing that graphic was made when the national speed limit was 65 mph.

In my experience driving in Washington (where this graph was modelled), no one does less than 63 in a 60 unless they're stuck behind someone else. Free flowing traffic is almost always near 70. I have no idea where they pulled these numbers. They are more than likely quite old, indeed.

FWIW, I believe WSDOT kept limits at 55 until after the NSL was eliminated, before raising them to 65 and then eventually 70 a few years later.
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kalvado

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2018, 05:38:47 PM »

Hah.  This clearly isn't representative of drivers used to heavy traffic conditions.  Driving 75 mph at, maybe, 2 car lengths behind each other?  Completely normal.  Being the graphic doesn't even shown anyone driving over 62 mph, I can't see it being a very realistic graph anymore.

I'm guessing that graphic was made when the national speed limit was 65 mph.

In my experience driving in Washington (where this graph was modelled), no one does less than 63 in a 60 unless they're stuck behind someone else. Free flowing traffic is almost always near 70. I have no idea where they pulled these numbers. They are more than likely quite old, indeed.

FWIW, I believe WSDOT kept limits at 55 until after the NSL was eliminated, before raising them to 65 and then eventually 70 a few years later.
Well, if you really care, here is the narration for the graph:
I-405northbound at 24 th NE, 6 am - 10 am weekdays volume in May 2010; Speed limit 60mph
 
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jakeroot

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2018, 06:07:27 PM »

Hah.  This clearly isn't representative of drivers used to heavy traffic conditions.  Driving 75 mph at, maybe, 2 car lengths behind each other?  Completely normal.  Being the graphic doesn't even shown anyone driving over 62 mph, I can't see it being a very realistic graph anymore.

I'm guessing that graphic was made when the national speed limit was 65 mph.

In my experience driving in Washington (where this graph was modelled), no one does less than 63 in a 60 unless they're stuck behind someone else. Free flowing traffic is almost always near 70. I have no idea where they pulled these numbers. They are more than likely quite old, indeed.

FWIW, I believe WSDOT kept limits at 55 until after the NSL was eliminated, before raising them to 65 and then eventually 70 a few years later.
Well, if you really care, here is the narration for the graph:
I-405northbound at 24 th NE, 6 am - 10 am weekdays volume in May 2010; Speed limit 60mph
 


Confusing. The 405 passes two 24th's with a "NE" designation. Once in Renton, and again in Bellevue (near the 520).

Assuming it's discussing the Renton section, since northbound is the peak direction in this area, the 405 is just finishing a long hill-climb after passing over NE Park Drive, so it's not much of a surprise that average speeds are lower here than other sections. I'd bet 405 northbound just before NE 44th (exit 7, about a mile later) is probably close to 70 or higher, since it's at the bottom of a large hill. NE 30th (exit 6) is the peak of a large hill.
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kalvado

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2018, 06:23:10 PM »

Hah.  This clearly isn't representative of drivers used to heavy traffic conditions.  Driving 75 mph at, maybe, 2 car lengths behind each other?  Completely normal.  Being the graphic doesn't even shown anyone driving over 62 mph, I can't see it being a very realistic graph anymore.

I'm guessing that graphic was made when the national speed limit was 65 mph.

In my experience driving in Washington (where this graph was modelled), no one does less than 63 in a 60 unless they're stuck behind someone else. Free flowing traffic is almost always near 70. I have no idea where they pulled these numbers. They are more than likely quite old, indeed.

FWIW, I believe WSDOT kept limits at 55 until after the NSL was eliminated, before raising them to 65 and then eventually 70 a few years later.
Well, if you really care, here is the narration for the graph:
I-405northbound at 24 th NE, 6 am - 10 am weekdays volume in May 2010; Speed limit 60mph
 


Confusing. The 405 passes two 24th's with a "NE" designation. Once in Renton, and again in Bellevue (near the 520).

Assuming it's discussing the Renton section, since northbound is the peak direction in this area, the 405 is just finishing a long hill-climb after passing over NE Park Drive, so it's not much of a surprise that average speeds are lower here than other sections. I'd bet 405 northbound just before NE 44th (exit 7, about a mile later) is probably close to 70 or higher, since it's at the bottom of a large hill. NE 30th (exit 6) is the peak of a large hill.
Honestly speaking, I saw many such graphs. Higher speed limit postpones onset of congestion (although I don't quite understand why), but not by much. Overall shape is the same.
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webny99

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2018, 11:13:54 PM »

Bonus question: Do you allow others to pass you on the right?

If someone's approaching fast on my right, I'll often opt to quickly switch places with them. But not always. Better to let it go in certain circumstances.

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Re: Passing on the Right
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2018, 07:12:08 AM »

Bonus question: Do you allow others to pass you on the right?

If someone's approaching fast on my right, I'll often opt to quickly switch places with them. But not always. Better to let it go in certain circumstances.
Khm... May I ask, if someone is  approaching fast on your right.... why you're not in the right lane to begin with?!
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