AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: I-81 in Virginia  (Read 3676 times)

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4449
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:23:24 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2018, 06:19:47 AM »

Who is saying that it is only the people living in the I-81 Corridor that do not want tolls, or that it is only those people who benefit from an increase in motor fuel taxes in those counties and cities for upgrading I-81?
Logged
Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10220
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: April 24, 2019, 04:58:16 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2018, 10:52:43 PM »

Who is saying that it is only the people living in the I-81 Corridor that do not want tolls, or that it is only those people who benefit from an increase in motor fuel taxes in those counties and cities for upgrading I-81?

It's a natural reaction in most of the United States to any suggested increase in motor fuel taxes or an imposition of highway tolls or increases in same. 

That's the reason that the federal per-gallon motor fuel tax has not been increased from 18.4˘ per gallon since the first Clinton Administration.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4449
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:23:24 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2018, 11:45:52 PM »

Who is saying that it is only the people living in the I-81 Corridor that do not want tolls, or that it is only those people who benefit from an increase in motor fuel taxes in those counties and cities for upgrading I-81?
It's a natural reaction in most of the United States to any suggested increase in motor fuel taxes or an imposition of highway tolls or increases in same. 

To blame the people living in the counties that the highway passed thru for not increasing the taxes?  I hadn't heard that one.
Logged
Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

seicer

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1247
  • Last Login: Today at 08:08:54 AM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2018, 07:27:39 AM »

Let's face the facts. When the federal gasoline tax hasn't been increased, funds will need to be derived from other sources, mainly tolls or public-private partnerships. As we've seen in other states, tolls are an easier solution to bite than proposing what is ultimately a political death wish. It's how the East End Bridge (KY-IN) got built at nearly $4 billion, and how the Brent Spence Bridge (KY-OH) is proposed to be built at nearly $2 billion. And how the I-69 Bridge (KY-IN) is proposed to be built at nearly $1 billion. It's fantasy to believe that without pegging the gasoline tax with inflation as Kentucky does with their state gasoline tax, that states can afford to build such expensive projects.
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10220
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: April 24, 2019, 04:58:16 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2018, 11:37:33 AM »

Winchester Star: Transportation official: Improving I-81 in Frederick County a 'real possibility'

Quote
There is a good chance that improvements to Interstate 81 from Exit 313 to Exit 317 (Winchester to Rutherford Crossing) will be recommended for funding, according to Dixon Whitworth, the area’s representative on the Commonwealth Transportation Board.

Quote
Whitworth made the announcement at Frederick County’s fourth annual transportation forum, which was held Thursday night at Winchester Regional Airport. The forum gave citizens a chance to engage one-on-one with elected officials and transportation staff from various agencies. State delegates Wendy Gooditis, Chris Collins and Dave LaRock attended the meeting.

Quote
Whitworth said that VDOT staff has determined significant savings could be made in certain I-81 projects planned for other localities. Because of these cost-savings, more money can probably be redirected to other projects — including I-81 in Frederick County.

Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10220
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: April 24, 2019, 04:58:16 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2018, 11:46:22 AM »

To blame the people living in the counties that the highway passed thru for not increasing the taxes?  I hadn't heard that one.

That's where the big reaction comes from if a tax increase is targeted at a specific county or set of counties (in this context, county also includes an independent city).

Pennsylvania was able to secure a massive increase in state motor fuel taxes in part because staff people from the Pennsylvania Secretary of Transportation's office compiled a (long) list of roads that would be posted with dramatically lower weight limits or entirely closed without a tax increase to pay for repairs, sorted it by legislative district for each member of the Pennsylvania Senate and Pennsylvania House of Representatives, and hand delivered those lists to every member, with the warning that they would be getting phone calls from angry constituents about postings or total closures caused by deficient or unsafe bridges.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 11:49:28 AM by cpzilliacus »
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

74/171FAN

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1566
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Harrisburg, PA
  • Last Login: Today at 08:00:42 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2018, 03:59:06 PM »

To blame the people living in the counties that the highway passed thru for not increasing the taxes?  I hadn't heard that one.

That's where the big reaction comes from if a tax increase is targeted at a specific county or set of counties (in this context, county also includes an independent city).

Pennsylvania was able to secure a massive increase in state motor fuel taxes in part because staff people from the Pennsylvania Secretary of Transportation's office compiled a (long) list of roads that would be posted with dramatically lower weight limits or entirely closed without a tax increase to pay for repairs, sorted it by legislative district for each member of the Pennsylvania Senate and Pennsylvania House of Representatives, and hand delivered those lists to every member, with the warning that they would be getting phone calls from angry constituents about postings or total closures caused by deficient or unsafe bridges.

Hence the many TRUCK and ALT TRUCK routes I have to deal with now.  (even with the tax increase)
Logged
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4449
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:23:24 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2018, 06:45:39 PM »

To blame the people living in the counties that the highway passed thru for not increasing the taxes?  I hadn't heard that one.
That's where the big reaction comes from if a tax increase is targeted at a specific county or set of counties (in this context, county also includes an independent city).

I haven't heard that I-81 taxes would be targeted at cities and counties that it passed thru.

Tolls would affect them, but the latest proposal would provide them an annual pass for $25, a very small cost.
Logged
Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

davewiecking

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 452
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Bethesda, MD
  • Last Login: Today at 05:14:32 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2018, 08:15:15 PM »

I haven't heard that I-81 taxes would be targeted at cities and counties that it passed thru.
(See reply #34 above for details.)
Logged

VTGoose

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 245
  • Age: 2014
  • Location: Blacksburg, VA
  • Last Login: April 24, 2019, 12:38:45 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2018, 09:28:02 AM »

To blame the people living in the counties that the highway passed thru for not increasing the taxes?  I hadn't heard that one.

That's where the big reaction comes from if a tax increase is targeted at a specific county or set of counties (in this context, county also includes an independent city).

As someone who lives in one of those counties that could be targeted (Montgomery), this is a double-edge sword. Yes, those living along and using I-81 are well aware of the need to fix the highway. But the road serves more than just the localities that it passes through -- people from across Virginia use the interstate (or benefit from it) as do people from across the country. Unlike Tidewater and Northern Virginia, where specific taxes help remedy road problems in those regions, I-81 doesn't fit that mold. To burden just residents of those counties with an extra tax isn't a fair solution. Tolls would spread the cost of improvements across all those who use the road (or benefit, such as those who eventually/ultimately receive goods shipped by truck). If set up properly, tolls could be acceptable if regional trips weren't tolled (such as New River Valley to Roanoke or around Harrisonburg and Winchester) but trips outside those regions did have a toll (i.e., someone traveling from Blacksburg to Richmond would pay a toll somewhere along the way), residents might be more accepting of the toll plan.

However it works out, one project on the proposed list that should be moved high on any list is adding another lane to I-81 northbound between Christiansburg (MP 118) and Roanoke (MP 150). This is a major problem area, mainly the long downhill portions between exit 118 and Ironto. It doesn't take much for flatlanders and/or truckers to get into trouble and the resulting wrecks can block the whole road and cause backups for miles. An extra lane may not eliminate all the wrecks but may make it easier to keep traffic flowing.

Bruce in Blacksburg
Logged

vdeane

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9897
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Latham, NY
  • Last Login: Today at 08:05:27 PM
    • New York State Roads
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2018, 12:39:36 PM »

I would think a gas tax increase would absolutely hit the people traveling through.  It's a 300 mile corridor - someone driving the length of it is going to be getting food, gas, and, depending on when they pass through, lodging.  It's just too long not to.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4449
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:23:24 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2018, 05:45:27 PM »

However it works out, one project on the proposed list that should be moved high on any list is adding another lane to I-81 northbound between Christiansburg (MP 118) and Roanoke (MP 150). This is a major problem area, mainly the long downhill portions between exit 118 and Ironto. It doesn't take much for flatlanders and/or truckers to get into trouble and the resulting wrecks can block the whole road and cause backups for miles. An extra lane may not eliminate all the wrecks but may make it easier to keep traffic flowing.

Given the high local and thru traffic volumes between Christiansburg (MP 118) and Troutville (MP 150), that should be the first segment to be widened.  I doubt that six lanes will be adequate for 20 years into the future, so they should make that eight lanes (4 each way) and upgrade the interchanges to a 20 year design.
Logged
Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4449
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:23:24 PM
Re: I-81 in Virginia
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2018, 10:37:43 PM »

Adding tolls to Interstate bridges and tunnels has been done in some selected cases.
Adding tolling to a whole rural Interstate corridor is another matter. 
The ISRRPP three toll pilot projects were authorized in TEA-21 back in 1998, and three states applied for and obtained provisional approval for a project.  None have advanced toward an implementation.
If this is any indication of the "popularity" of this, then it doesn't look good at all as far as getting the public and elected officials to agree to it.

Maybe if someone actually does one of these projects for the first time, then maybe that will 'break the ground'  for getting a few more done.

VA I-81 would be a good place to start, but they will need to carefully build consensus with the public and officials and lobbying groups.

They don't necessarily have to toll the whole route, they could take each Segment of Independant Utility (SIU) thru its Tier II EIS/location study, and then decide on each how exactly it will be funded and whether it will have toll revenue bond funding.  IIRC VA I-81 had eight SIU identified in the Tier I EIS/location study about 12 years ago.  Also prioritization will occur as to when each SIU gets built, some may come soon and some may be well into the future.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 10:40:34 PM by Beltway »
Logged
Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.