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Author Topic: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?  (Read 1395 times)

peterj920

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WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« on: August 03, 2018, 12:58:17 AM »

In the last couple years, WISDOT has been intensely chip sealing more and more state highways. Wis 32/57 in northern Calumet County will be done next week, while Wis 96 in Outagamie County was done last week.  Other roads that have been done is Wis 42, Manitowoc Co, Wis 32/57 Brown Co, US 141/Wis 29 Brown Co, Wis 96 Brown Co, Wis 32 Oconto Co.

Do you like the old policy of just simply sealing cracks with the asphalt layer remaining or the chip seal approach better? 
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jnewkirk77

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2018, 10:16:05 AM »

Crack sealing is OK, but a chip sealed road is smoother. I would think that chip sealing, since it covers the entire surface, would help the road last longer.

Both techniques make for more road noise, however.
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triplemultiplex

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2018, 02:22:01 PM »

I fucking hate chip seal.  It's loud as goddamn jet plane and those little rocks are constantly flecking off and damaging windshields.  The loose stones accumulate on the centerline and along the shoulder so if a vehicle strays from its lane, everyone behind them gets showered with pebbles.  Our freeze-thaw cycle and constant snow plowing only makes it worse.  I think it's giant make-work program that makes it look like they are fixing the road, but are not really doing anything to substantially improve it.
Chip seal has no business on high speed roadways, in my boisterous opinion.
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tchafe1978

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2018, 03:25:26 PM »

It may be a less expensive method for maintaining roads, but I think it's just plain cheap. Along with triplemultiplex's comments, the chips barely last a winter or two before being scraped off by plows. The painted center lines don't last a season either. Lafayette County and the townships in the county chip seal all the time. It certainly doesn't make the road any smoother. Many of the town roads were originally just paved with chip seal, and receive little traffic, so I suppose it works ok for those. But any road that was originally asphalt, it's just stupid. County XX from Belmont to Platteville had just been redone when the new US 151 opened in 2004-05, and last year the county chip sealed it. I don't see any noticeable improvement that just plain crack filling wouldn't cover.
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froggie

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2018, 05:32:40 PM »

Quote
I would think that chip sealing, since it covers the entire surface, would help the road last longer.

This has actually been proven.  Regardless of what some in here may think about chip sealing, it does preserve and extend pavement life.
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hbelkins

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2018, 05:38:43 PM »

Quote
I would think that chip sealing, since it covers the entire surface, would help the road last longer.

This has actually been proven.  Regardless of what some in here may think about chip sealing, it does preserve and extend pavement life.

I see that most of the negative comments above come from northern states with harsh winters.

Kentucky is actively pursuing a pavement preservation program that includes chip seal, cape seal, microsurfacing and one other (it may be slurry seal). After trying these techniques on a few low-volume roads the past few years, they've started doing this to some major routes. The biggest complaints are coming, believe it or not, from the asphalt companies.  :-D There's some data I have that says how cost-effective this is; it extends the useful life of the existing pavement at a fraction of the cost of resurfacing.

Other than during the initial phase (in cape sealing, the rocks sit for a few days on top of the oil before a sealant is placed on them), we've heard no significant complaints about  loose stone.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2018, 05:46:03 PM »

Whatever pavement type works best for a corridor is the one that should be used.
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J N Winkler

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2018, 02:55:09 PM »

I see that most of the negative comments above come from northern states with harsh winters.

That is largely because this is a Wisconsin thread.  We have had at least one other thread complaining about chipseal as practiced in Texas (loose stones damaging paint and windshields, the chipseal lifting when the binder fails), even though the TxDOT chipsealing specification is fairly strict (IIRC, it requires five passes with a sweeper to pick up loose stone).

Other than during the initial phase (in cape sealing, the rocks sit for a few days on top of the oil before a sealant is placed on them), we've heard no significant complaints about  loose stone.

What do the specifications call for in terms of sweeping?
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SEWIGuy

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2018, 07:04:10 AM »

I've seen good chipseal jobs that are just fine.

But I have seen some very poor ones.  The city where I live chipsealed a number of streets only to have to do it all over again the next year.  Too many stones...too few stones. 
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mgk920

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2018, 02:47:44 PM »

I've seen good chipseal jobs that are just fine.

But I have seen some very poor ones.  The city where I live chipsealed a number of streets only to have to do it all over again the next year.  Too many stones...too few stones.

That section of WI 96 (westward from WI 76) looks pretty good.  OTOH, it looks like it silenced the rumble strip that was carved into its center line a few years back.

OTOH, I've also seen some townships do beyond pathetic jobs at it.

Outagamie County likes chipsealing their county highways, too.  They are doing that right now to County 'CB', the main north-south road that goes past the terminal at ATW (Appleton International) airport.  They also did that to County 'CA' (College Ave) between ATW and I-41 and to County 'OO' (Northland Ave) between County 'A' (Lynndale Dr) and County 'AA' (Bluemound Dr) in the Appleton area a couple of years ago.  These are all suburban four-lane surface streets/highways.

Mike
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peterj920

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 02:07:33 AM »

Wis 96 had a fog seal top coat.  That should allow the gravel to hold together better.  The rumble strips are still there and make noise if driven over. 
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peterj920

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2018, 02:14:37 AM »

Should also add that County CA will look drastically different soon as it will be rebuilt as an urban roadway with 2 roundabouts between County CB and Casaloma Dr.  I like the current 55 mph expressway better than the reconstruction and plans.

http://www.outagamie.org/home/showdocument?id=51465
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mgk920

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2018, 03:38:04 AM »

Should also add that County CA will look drastically different soon as it will be rebuilt as an urban roadway with 2 roundabouts between County CB and Casaloma Dr.  I like the current 55 mph expressway better than the reconstruction and plans.

http://www.outagamie.org/home/showdocument?id=51465

County 'CA' *BADLY* needs rebuilding to urban standards and its intersection at McCarthy Rd is, IMHO, the most dangerous in all of NE Wisconsin.  I've seen (as in 'eye-witness') numerous crashes and accident scenes there. It's dark (Grand Chute Township is too GD cheap to install streetlights there), the roads are busy, County CA has a 55 speed limit there and it's controlled with STOP signs.

Any improvements there cannot come soon enough.

Mike
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peterj920

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 06:48:05 PM »

Can add Wis 32/57 and Wis 55 in Calumet County to the chip seal list.  Wis 32/57 was resurfaced only 2 years ago and Wis 55 only a year ago and they’re already being chip sealed. 
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20160805

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 05:39:04 PM »

Can add Wis 32/57 and Wis 55 in Calumet County to the chip seal list.  Wis 32/57 was resurfaced only 2 years ago and Wis 55 only a year ago and they’re already being chip sealed.
Can confirm - was just on WI 55 through part of Calumet County a few days ago and noticed it the time before that, too.  Personally I don't know quite what to make of it yet, although to me for some weird reason there's a certain appeal to driving on an old, worn-out asphalt road.
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hbelkins

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2018, 09:15:51 PM »

I just drove on the freshly cape-sealed KY 15 in Breathitt County today. The road feels a little rougher, and the noise level is higher, but it's still not as loud as the concrete bridges. Those factors are supposed to improve with time. If there are no major potholes or base failures, I expect this pavement preservation to last several years before a resurface or mill-and-fill will be required.
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Beltway

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2018, 11:15:55 PM »

It is called "surface treatment".   Basically a process that creates an inch to inch and a half of asphaltic surface.  Works fine on low volume (say 200 VPD and lower) secondary roads.
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Brian556

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2018, 12:22:14 AM »

Dislike it. It is extremely loud. Excess tar can pulled to the surface making the wheel paths slicker when wet. The tar re-melts during hot weather, sometimes so bad that TxDOT has to sand the road. Ironic considering that chip seal is just asphalt without the sand. Also, reflectors mush down into it, making them harder to see. It sometimes gets gaps in it in the wheel paths at curves, making the surface rough.
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peterj920

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2018, 02:23:29 PM »

Can add Wis 32/57 and Wis 55 in Calumet County to the chip seal list.  Wis 32/57 was resurfaced only 2 years ago and Wis 55 only a year ago and they’re already being chip sealed.
Can confirm - was just on WI 55 through part of Calumet County a few days ago and noticed it the time before that, too.  Personally I don't know quite what to make of it yet, although to me for some weird reason there's a certain appeal to driving on an old, worn-out asphalt road.

The roads WISDOT are chip sealing aren't even old and worn out.  Most have been resurfaced within the last 5 years.  Wis 55 was resurfaced just last year.  Wis 32/Wis 57 was resurfaced only 2 years ago. 
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20160805

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Re: WISDOT chipsealing more state highways good or bad?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2018, 03:54:27 PM »

Can add Wis 32/57 and Wis 55 in Calumet County to the chip seal list.  Wis 32/57 was resurfaced only 2 years ago and Wis 55 only a year ago and they’re already being chip sealed.
Can confirm - was just on WI 55 through part of Calumet County a few days ago and noticed it the time before that, too.  Personally I don't know quite what to make of it yet, although to me for some weird reason there's a certain appeal to driving on an old, worn-out asphalt road.

The roads WISDOT are chip sealing aren't even old and worn out.  Most have been resurfaced within the last 5 years.  Wis 55 was resurfaced just last year.  Wis 32/Wis 57 was resurfaced only 2 years ago.
Also very true; that comment was just an off-hand aside note.  I guess I'm not getting the purpose of chipsealing relatively newly (re)paved roads; it almost makes them look and feel more worn out than they actually are.
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