How do you define the Midwest?

[JayhawkCO]

The eastern boundary of the Midwest in that map is perfect. The western boundary, not so much. The placement of Tulsa on the boundary between South and Midwest also makes sense. There are a couple nother nits I could pick, but the map seems pretty accurate!

Yeah, I'd argue you could put regions 28 and 29 into the Midwest.

[freebrickproductions]

The eastern boundary of the Midwest in that map is perfect. The western boundary, not so much. The placement of Tulsa on the boundary between South and Midwest also makes sense. There are a couple nother nits I could pick, but the map seems pretty accurate!

Yeah, I'd argue you could put regions 28 and 29 into the Midwest.

IMHO, 28 and 29 don't belong in the Midwest, so I'd say they have that correct. IMHO, the boundary between them and the Midwest should also be further east, that part of SD didn't really feel "midwestern" to me when I drove through there.

[JayhawkCO]

The eastern boundary of the Midwest in that map is perfect. The western boundary, not so much. The placement of Tulsa on the boundary between South and Midwest also makes sense. There are a couple nother nits I could pick, but the map seems pretty accurate!

Yeah, I'd argue you could put regions 28 and 29 into the Midwest.

IMHO, 28 and 29 don't belong in the Midwest, so I'd say they have that correct. IMHO, the boundary between them and the Midwest should also be further east, that part of SD didn't really feel "midwestern" to me when I drove through there.

What, in your opinion, makes the area round Pierre, SD or Dodge City, KS feel a lot different than the area around Mason City, IA; Topeka, KS; or Effingham, IL?

[freebrickproductions]

The eastern boundary of the Midwest in that map is perfect. The western boundary, not so much. The placement of Tulsa on the boundary between South and Midwest also makes sense. There are a couple nother nits I could pick, but the map seems pretty accurate!

Yeah, I'd argue you could put regions 28 and 29 into the Midwest.

IMHO, 28 and 29 don't belong in the Midwest, so I'd say they have that correct. IMHO, the boundary between them and the Midwest should also be further east, that part of SD didn't really feel "midwestern" to me when I drove through there.

What, in your opinion, makes the area round Pierre, SD or Dodge City, KS feel a lot different than the area around Mason City, IA; Topeka, KS; or Effingham, IL?

Honestly, to me, I wouldn't even define Topeka as being "Midwest" either.

[JayhawkCO]

The eastern boundary of the Midwest in that map is perfect. The western boundary, not so much. The placement of Tulsa on the boundary between South and Midwest also makes sense. There are a couple nother nits I could pick, but the map seems pretty accurate!

Yeah, I'd argue you could put regions 28 and 29 into the Midwest.

IMHO, 28 and 29 don't belong in the Midwest, so I'd say they have that correct. IMHO, the boundary between them and the Midwest should also be further east, that part of SD didn't really feel "midwestern" to me when I drove through there.

What, in your opinion, makes the area round Pierre, SD or Dodge City, KS feel a lot different than the area around Mason City, IA; Topeka, KS; or Effingham, IL?

Honestly, to me, I wouldn't even define Topeka as being "Midwest" either.

Having lived about 20 miles away from it, I assure you that they think they're Midwestern.

[Scott5114]

Found another map that touches on this subject. Discuss!

Facebook image links don't work after a certain period of time.

[Plutonic Panda]

The four corners is considered its own cultural region?

[JayhawkCO]

Found another map that touches on this subject. Discuss!

Facebook image links don't work after a certain period of time.

Fixed

[JayhawkCO]

The four corners is considered its own cultural region?

Navajo and Hopi Nations there.

[Plutonic Panda]

The four corners is considered its own cultural region?

Navajo and Hopi Nations there.

The four corners is considered its own cultural region?

Navajo and Hopi Nations there.

Right but their boundaries extend further than that and what about the tribal nations in Oklahoma. Why don't they get their own zones?

[Scott5114]

While I like where they drew the Midwest on that map, I think it's sort of strange that it puts such a hard line between Las Vegas and the "West Coast". There are certainly differences between the two, but I would put it on the border between the "West Coast" and "West"—while it shares some things in common with Salt Lake and Phoenix, it certainly has more in common with Southern California than it does Boise or Amarillo.

I think Oklahoma City has more in common with the parts of Oklahoma west of it than it does the parts east of it. (Tulsa riding the line between South and Midwest sounds about right, and you could make that argument for OKC too. Maybe OKC should be the tripoint of South, Midwest, and West.)

[hotdogPi]

Is this the new 63-state plan? I remember when @CNGL-Leudimin created a 122-state plan based on NWS offices.

[Scott5114]

Is this the new 63-state plan? I remember when @CNGL-Leudimin created a 122-state plan based on NWS offices.

I don't want to be in the same state as Kingman...

[JayhawkCO]

The four corners is considered its own cultural region?

Navajo and Hopi Nations there.

The four corners is considered its own cultural region?

Navajo and Hopi Nations there.

Right but their boundaries extend further than that and what about the tribal nations in Oklahoma. Why don't they get their own zones?

Looks like the line is right around I-40 which is the general southern border of those reservations. It also captures the Ute reservations in Utah and Colorado. I think it's reasonably accurate.

Re: native populations in Oklahoma, as I haven't spent much time in Oklahoma off the interstates I can't speak to the cultural differences there. I will say driving in the Cherokee Nation felt markedly different than driving in the Navajo Nation and not just because of landscape.

[kphoger]

Yeah, I'd argue you could put regions 28 and 29 into the Midwest.

Agreed.

Honestly, to me, I wouldn't even define Topeka as being "Midwest" either.

Having lived about 20 miles away from it, I assure you that they think they're Midwestern.

This.  This again.  This a thousand times.

I really don't understand people's wanting to exclude entire regions where the majority of the population self-identifies as being part of the Midwest.  Pretty much everyone in western Kansas, for example, considers themselves to live in the Midwest, so it strikes me as really bizarre for someone in a whole other part of the country to tell them they don't.  It's like you're just making up your own definition of "the Midwest" and then arguing with anyone whose viewpoint doesn't conform to your own made-up definition.  Hell, if that's the way we're playing it, then I'm going to call everything south of US-90 "the South" and then argue with anyone who tells me that people in Tupelo are Southerners.

[Rothman]

Yeah, I'd argue you could put regions 28 and 29 into the Midwest.

Agreed.

Honestly, to me, I wouldn't even define Topeka as being "Midwest" either.

Having lived about 20 miles away from it, I assure you that they think they're Midwestern.

This.  This again.  This a thousand times.

I really don't understand people's wanting to exclude entire regions where the majority of the population self-identifies as being part of the Midwest.  Pretty much everyone in western Kansas, for example, considers themselves to live in the Midwest, so it strikes me as really bizarre for someone in a whole other part of the country to tell them they don't.  It's like you're just making up your own definition of "the Midwest" and then arguing with anyone whose viewpoint doesn't conform to your own made-up definition.  Hell, if that's the way we're playing it, then I'm going to call everything south of US-90 "the South" and then argue with anyone who tells me that people in Tupelo are Southerners.

To be fair, there's a lot of "I want to say I'm part of X region when I'm really in Y, and I really don't want to be considered as part of Y" stuff out there...

[JayhawkCO]

To be fair, there's a lot of "I want to say I'm part of X region when I'm really in Y, and I really don't want to be considered as part of Y" stuff out there...

Sure, but someone in Alabama telling someone in Kansas that they're not Midwestern isn't exactly that. Maybe if the Alabaman considered themselves Midwestern, there would be a little more validity (despite them being wrong).

[CoreySamson]

Right but their boundaries extend further than that and what about the tribal nations in Oklahoma. Why don't they get their own zones?

I think they do get their own zone on the map. The section marked "Sequoyah" encompasses most of the Creek, Choctaw, Cherokee, and Chickasaw Nations, which in the grand scheme of things, I think you can place in one cultural region because they are not too different culturally (I recognize there are tribal differences).

[JayhawkCO]

Right but their boundaries extend further than that and what about the tribal nations in Oklahoma. Why don't they get their own zones?

I think they do get their own zone on the map. The section marked "Sequoyah" encompasses most of the Creek, Choctaw, Cherokee, and Chickasaw Nations, which in the grand scheme of things, I think you can place in one cultural region because they are not too different culturally (I recognize there are tribal differences).

It does look like it puts the Osage and Cherokee Nations into the Heartland though.

[Roadgeekteen]

I've always thought Kansas was a Great Plains state, but that the great Plains region was a subdivision of the wider Midwest region. But then again, Oklahoma is Plains and I wouldn't call Oklahoma midwest...

[JayhawkCO]

I've always thought Kansas was a Great Plains state, but that the great Plains region was a subdivision of the wider Midwest region. But then again, Oklahoma is Plains and I wouldn't call Oklahoma midwest...

Regions 28 and 36 definitely contain the portions of Oklahoma that I would say are the most Midwestern.

[bugo]

I've always thought Kansas was a Great Plains state, but that the great Plains region was a subdivision of the wider Midwest region. But then again, Oklahoma is Plains and I wouldn't call Oklahoma midwest...

That's because you have never been to Oklahoma. Tulsa is, without question, a midwestern city. A lot of natives and outsiders claim that Oklahoma is in the south, which is total nonsense. Tulsa has more in common with Kansas City than with Macon or Charleston.

[Scott5114]

I've always thought Kansas was a Great Plains state, but that the great Plains region was a subdivision of the wider Midwest region. But then again, Oklahoma is Plains and I wouldn't call Oklahoma midwest...

That's because you have never been to Oklahoma. Tulsa is, without question, a midwestern city. A lot of natives and outsiders claim that Oklahoma is in the south, which is total nonsense. Tulsa has more in common with Kansas City than with Macon or Charleston.

The thing about Oklahoma is that it straddles a bunch of these sorts of lines. Is Tulsa a Southern city? Almost certainly not. Is Oklahoma City? Eh, maybe, it's got a few more things in common with Dallas than Tulsa does (but also things in common with Kansas City). Is Idabel a Southern city? Definitely more of one than Tulsa and OKC are.

[bugo]

Is Idabel a Southern city?

Poteau has a fairly Southern feel to it. It's right next to Fort Smith, Arkansas, which is definitely Southern, so the cultures flow back and forth across the border. Poteau residents tend to have strong Southern accents, with the same drawl that can be found in western Arkansas. Oklahoma really is at the junction of several regions of the country.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

While I try to understand opinions on this subject are different, I struggle to get in the mindset that people are seemingly trying to argue the Plains and Midwest are as radically dissimilar as Georgia and Washington or something. ND/SD east of the Missouri are definitely Midwestern; the Corn Palace in Mitchell, SD would be just as much in place in most of MN, IA, IL, IN, or WI if it was built there.