AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules for political content in signatures and user profiles. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Quebec's Highways  (Read 121223 times)

oscar

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6477
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Arlington, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:28:18 AM
    • my Hot Springs and Highways pages
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #325 on: August 02, 2017, 04:38:36 AM »

We've already added the new A-70 segment to the Travel Mapping project. Still unclear whether the new tie-in to route 170 at the new Ch. Grande-Anse interchange is completed, and what happened to the old tie-in near the Chicoutimi golf course. But I'd assume Travel Mapping's routing of route 170 (TM now has "preview" mapping of Quebec's provincial routes) will at some point also need to be tweaked.
Logged
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

webfil

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 323
  • I thought being taught would be tough, though.

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Matane, QC, Canada
  • Last Login: July 15, 2019, 11:28:51 PM
    • Le livre noir de la vie en Basse-Ville
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #326 on: August 02, 2017, 10:36:42 AM »

Still unclear whether the new tie-in to route 170 at the new Ch. Grande-Anse interchange is completed, and what happened to the old tie-in near the Chicoutimi golf course.

OpenStreetMap has it pretty right.
Logged

oscar

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6477
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Arlington, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:28:18 AM
    • my Hot Springs and Highways pages
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #327 on: August 02, 2017, 10:57:40 AM »

Still unclear whether the new tie-in to route 170 at the new Ch. Grande-Anse interchange is completed, and what happened to the old tie-in near the Chicoutimi golf course.

OpenStreetMap has it pretty right.

OSM hasn't yet been updaed to reflect the completion of the A-70 extension, and any other related roadways that were opened on Friday. The Transports Quebec website press release indicates that parts of the project on A-70/170 tie-ins are still being worked on.
Logged
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

oscar

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6477
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Arlington, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:28:18 AM
    • my Hot Springs and Highways pages
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #328 on: August 04, 2017, 11:54:59 PM »

Still unclear whether the new tie-in to route 170 at the new Ch. Grande-Anse interchange is completed, and what happened to the old tie-in near the Chicoutimi golf course.

OpenStreetMap has it pretty right.

OSM hasn't yet been updaed to reflect the completion of the A-70 extension, and any other related roadways that were opened on Friday. The Transports Quebec website press release indicates that parts of the project on A-70/170 tie-ins are still being worked on.

Actually, now if you zoom in far enough you can see the new changes to QC 170, which are shown as open to traffic except for one ramp from WB 170 to Ch. Grande-Anse.
Logged
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 12491
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 36
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:34:56 AM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #329 on: August 28, 2017, 03:13:31 PM »

Field note, confirmed by Google: QC 153 is simultaneously signed on 5th/6th Streets (one-way pair) and 3rd Street (two-way) in Grand-mère. 3rd St. feels like an unofficial bypass of downtown.

webfil

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 323
  • I thought being taught would be tough, though.

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Matane, QC, Canada
  • Last Login: July 15, 2019, 11:28:51 PM
    • Le livre noir de la vie en Basse-Ville
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #330 on: August 28, 2017, 06:36:27 PM »

Field note, confirmed by Google: QC 153 is simultaneously signed on 5th/6th Streets (one-way pair) and 3rd Street (two-way) in Grand-mère. 3rd St. feels like an unofficial bypass of downtown.

3rd Street is R-153 truck route. 153 between 351 and 359 is classified as a level 3 local highway (lowest mark in MTQ inventory); municipally-owned, -maintained and -signed. Both routes are most likely official. It could even be a mitigation measure requested by the MTQ to maintain route number consistency when trucks were prohibited downtown.
Logged

ATLRedSoxFan

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 193
  • Location: Quincy, MA
  • Last Login: July 14, 2019, 02:38:23 AM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #331 on: August 29, 2017, 12:13:56 AM »

I'm shocked the work on the A-35 has stalled.
Logged

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2638
  • Single Occupant Vehicle Commuter

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 10:12:47 PM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #332 on: August 29, 2017, 10:51:19 AM »

3rd Street is R-153 truck route. 153 between 351 and 359 is classified as a level 3 local highway (lowest mark in MTQ inventory); municipally-owned, -maintained and -signed. Both routes are most likely official. It could even be a mitigation measure requested by the MTQ to maintain route number consistency when trucks were prohibited downtown.

Are municipally maintained routes common in Quebec towns and cities?
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

webfil

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 323
  • I thought being taught would be tough, though.

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Matane, QC, Canada
  • Last Login: July 15, 2019, 11:28:51 PM
    • Le livre noir de la vie en Basse-Ville
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #333 on: August 29, 2017, 12:24:44 PM »

3rd Street is R-153 truck route. 153 between 351 and 359 is classified as a level 3 local highway (lowest mark in MTQ inventory); municipally-owned, -maintained and -signed. Both routes are most likely official. It could even be a mitigation measure requested by the MTQ to maintain route number consistency when trucks were prohibited downtown.

Are municipally maintained routes common in Quebec towns and cities?

I'd say more ubiquitous than common. There has been a «great download» in the early 90's ('92? '93?) of minor country roads, backroads and intraurban numbered routes, as well as the ROW itself and signage of the aformentionned to municipalities. Some funding for maintenance has been channelled through special programs. This is one of the reason in-town or minor road signage sometimes hasn't kept up with MTQ standards or is in a state of decay (for example R-112/125/138/335 inside the limits of the city of Montréal).

See Données Québec for shapefiles of the inventory or Atlas des Transports for a comprehensive rendering of this inventory.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 12:28:18 PM by webfil »
Logged

froggie

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10588
  • Location: Greensboro, VT
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 10:49:04 PM
    • Froggie's Place
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #334 on: September 04, 2017, 12:49:30 PM »

I'm shocked the work on the A-35 has stalled.

I'm not.  Not a whole lot of population or traffic...the former of which means not a lot of votes to be gained by finishing it.

I've always seen the A-35 proposal more as a means of getting Quebecois to New England instead of the other way around.  So, bluntly speaking, why would MTQ spend money on a roadway to speed its citizens going south of the border to spend money there?
Logged

Duke87

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5212
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Queens, NY
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 01:12:38 AM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #335 on: September 04, 2017, 01:39:23 PM »

I've always seen the A-35 proposal more as a means of getting Quebecois to New England instead of the other way around.  So, bluntly speaking, why would MTQ spend money on a roadway to speed its citizens going south of the border to spend money there?

I thought it was more about safety than about speed or throughput. QC 133 was perfectly capable of handling the traffic counts south of Iberville without getting unduly congested and is generally a good quality two-lane road. But there are several communities and a bunch of homes along the way, and a freeway is safer for both locals and travelers.
Logged
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Stephane Dumas

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1850
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 09:29:21 PM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #336 on: September 04, 2017, 08:08:45 PM »

I've always seen the A-35 proposal more as a means of getting Quebecois to New England instead of the other way around.  So, bluntly speaking, why would MTQ spend money on a roadway to speed its citizens going south of the border to spend money there?

I thought it was more about safety than about speed or throughput. QC 133 was perfectly capable of handling the traffic counts south of Iberville without getting unduly congested and is generally a good quality two-lane road. But there are several communities and a bunch of homes along the way, and a freeway is safer for both locals and travelers.

That gap of QC-133 was also a "blood alley" with numerous deadly accidents who happened over the years.
Logged

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2638
  • Single Occupant Vehicle Commuter

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 10:12:47 PM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #337 on: October 11, 2017, 08:18:41 PM »

Photos of median barrier construction on Autoroute 50 west of Mirabel.  The MTQ is constructing a concrete central divider for several kilometes of the Autoroute just west of the airport.  Despite the median barrier construction, the highway will remain a single lane in each direction:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/50/A50_medianbarrier1_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/50/A50_medianbarrier2_east_Sep16_24x16.jpg


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/50/A50_medianbarrier3_east_Sep17_24x16.jpg
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

bing101

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2700
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 10:17:43 PM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #338 on: October 21, 2017, 05:37:31 PM »

https://globalnews.ca/news/2099510/quebecs-longest-highway-construction-project-a-35-still-not-finished/

Wow Canada also has their version of the I-710 gap and its on A-35 Quebec.
Logged

oscar

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6477
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Arlington, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:28:18 AM
    • my Hot Springs and Highways pages
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #339 on: October 21, 2017, 06:41:52 PM »

https://globalnews.ca/news/2099510/quebecs-longest-highway-construction-project-a-35-still-not-finished/

Wow Canada also has their version of the I-710 gap and its on A-35 Quebec.

Nothing like the I-710 gap:

-- the affected local residents in Quebec want the project to happen, while many of the ones in California have long been fiercely opposed

-- the problem with the A-35 gap seems to be money (my understanding is that funding priority has been shifted to completing the A-85 link to the Maritime Provinces, which is also a really important project)

-- there is some reasonable hope that the A-35 completion will happen by 2030; lotsa luck pulling that off with I-710.
Logged
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

webfil

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 323
  • I thought being taught would be tough, though.

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Matane, QC, Canada
  • Last Login: July 15, 2019, 11:28:51 PM
    • Le livre noir de la vie en Basse-Ville
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #340 on: October 22, 2017, 02:27:16 PM »

-- the problem with the A-35 gap seems to be money [...]
Funding is a problem indeed; MTQ once built highways like there were no tomorrow (36% of the Ministry's non-administrative expenditures went into network development, 2004-2014), but the crying lack of maintenance of the infrastructure over the last 20 years is catching up ― big time. Network development now weighs in for 11,7% in 2016 and 8,7% in 2017 budgets.

-- the affected local residents in Quebec want the project to happen[...]
Everybody wants to drive on a freeway but no one wants to pay for it. Typical freerider problem. Put a toll on the gap-filler, and only a handful of motorist will opt for the new option.

Currently, the road ― being  4-lane divided for 6 km and 2 or 3-lane (old chicken lane converted to variable direction passing lane) for the rest  ― accomodates 2800-4800 thru and local movements. Also, outside Pike River village, there is an average of one driveway every 1000 feet. A provincial law prevents non-agricultural activities in designated farmlands, so these figures ought not to grow. No passing problem. No volume problem. No danger zone. What's the matter?

"Economic" prestige of having the US border connected to the autoroutes network and local scuttlebutt aside, I hardly see how a bold 4-lane freeway is reasonable.

And I did not mention the social and environmental costs of cutting through the wet, floodable bogs of the Pike River estuary with a gravel dyke; barring the open water from flowing to the Champlain lake is nothing like a good idea in these areas prone to spring floods.

So, yeah, 2030 is optimistic.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 03:02:36 PM by webfil »
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 12491
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 36
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:34:56 AM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #341 on: October 22, 2017, 08:15:54 PM »

If you want the equivalent of the I-710 gap in Quebec, try the former A-720 (would be A-20).

ATLRedSoxFan

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 193
  • Location: Quincy, MA
  • Last Login: July 14, 2019, 02:38:23 AM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #342 on: October 24, 2017, 02:45:20 AM »

You would think with the amount of trucks that use that artery, they'd find a way to fund it. It's not just a sleepy back road border road. The traffic does warrant it. Last time I crossed at Highgate, it took over 2 hours. A lot of it were truckers.
Logged

webfil

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 323
  • I thought being taught would be tough, though.

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Matane, QC, Canada
  • Last Login: July 15, 2019, 11:28:51 PM
    • Le livre noir de la vie en Basse-Ville
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #343 on: October 24, 2017, 08:21:31 AM »

You would think with the amount of trucks that use that artery, they'd find a way to fund it. It's not just a sleepy back road border road. The traffic does warrant it. Last time I crossed at Highgate, it took over 2 hours. A lot of it were truckers.

The presence or not of a freeway on one side of the border is not a guarantor of shorter waiting times.

Also, truck proportion is 20%. R-155 north of La Tuque and R-177 through Vérendrye WR, R-105 south of Mont-Laurier, R-167 north of La Doré, among others, have similar ratings and higher or equal truck percentages. How is a 4-lane freeway justifiable for 133 but not these roads?
Logged

cbeach40

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 378
  • Location: Ontari-ari-ari-o
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 10:03:26 AM
    • The Ontario Highwayman
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #344 on: October 24, 2017, 09:55:53 AM »

The presence or not of a freeway on one side of the border is not a guarantor of shorter waiting times.

So very, very yes. All a freeway border approach does is segregate the border traffic from local roads. Capacity is dictated by the border throughput as that is invariably far more restrictive than the capacity of the approach lanes.

Also, truck proportion is 20%. R-155 north of La Tuque and R-177 through Vérendrye WR, R-105 south of Mont-Laurier, R-167 north of La Doré, among others, have similar ratings and higher or equal truck percentages. How is a 4-lane freeway justifiable for 133 but not these roads?

Looked at the Vermont side. I-89 at the border had a 2015 AADT of 2400. With the higher truck volumes, that brings up the road to about maybe 5% of the capacity of a four lane freeway.

So no, there is no empirical traffic engineering justification for R-133 being a freeway.
Logged
Blah blah, opinions expressed are my own.

J N Winkler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6289
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: Today at 12:03:38 AM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #345 on: October 24, 2017, 10:46:48 AM »

I don't know about Canada, but in the US I have never had the impression CBP deploys agents in a manner that would allow the agency to meet a maximum-delay target per crossing (say, wait no longer than five minutes for 95% of entering traffic).
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2638
  • Single Occupant Vehicle Commuter

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 10:12:47 PM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #346 on: October 24, 2017, 03:53:15 PM »

I am sure there are service delivery standards for both American and Canadian Border Patrol standards, however I am also sure that lots of factors, including manpower (sick leave) and security protocols prevent the border from meeting service delivery times 100 % of the time.
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

MisterSG1

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 472
  • Civil Engineering Student - Better Late Than Never

  • Age: 31
  • Location: Brampton, ON
  • Last Login: June 22, 2019, 10:49:29 AM
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #347 on: October 25, 2017, 12:41:20 AM »

Quote
Looked at the Vermont side. I-89 at the border had a 2015 AADT of 2400. With the higher truck volumes, that brings up the road to about maybe 5% of the capacity of a four lane freeway.

So no, there is no empirical traffic engineering justification for R-133 being a freeway.

If you want to talk about warrants, perhaps you should see NB-2....the Grand Falls-Fredericton section in particular definitely doesn't warrant a freeway, but yet they got one.

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/dam/gnb/Departments/env/pdf/EIA-EIE/Registrations-Engegistrements/documents/EIARegistration1474/EIARegistration1474-AppendixF.pdf

If money could magically be found for that, then money can easily be found to turn QC-133 into a freeway.


And furthermore, perhaps it's an inconvenient truth that NB-95 was upgraded to a freeway (this connects to I-95 obviously) roughly 10 years ago and has an AADT less than 2500.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 12:46:23 AM by MisterSG1 »
Logged

oscar

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6477
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Arlington, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:28:18 AM
    • my Hot Springs and Highways pages
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #348 on: October 25, 2017, 09:18:23 AM »

I drove QC 133 last Saturday morning, from the border to A-35. I can't disagree that bypassing that part of QC 133 with an A-35 extension isn't a high priority, especially with sucky pavement quality on existing parts of the system elsewhere, and the greater need to finish A-85. (Can't say that other proposed additions to the Autoroute system, like A-20 from Trois-Pistoles to Rimouski, and a further extension to La Baie of the recently-extended A-70, would rate higher than finishing A-35.) 

There was no congestion or significant slowdown in Pike River, the one community on 133 south of A-35. And A-35 had light traffic until St-Jean-sur-Richelieu near its north end.
Logged
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

cbeach40

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 378
  • Location: Ontari-ari-ari-o
  • Last Login: July 18, 2019, 10:03:26 AM
    • The Ontario Highwayman
Re: Quebec's Highways
« Reply #349 on: October 25, 2017, 09:39:29 AM »

Quote
Looked at the Vermont side. I-89 at the border had a 2015 AADT of 2400. With the higher truck volumes, that brings up the road to about maybe 5% of the capacity of a four lane freeway.

So no, there is no empirical traffic engineering justification for R-133 being a freeway.

If you want to talk about warrants, perhaps you should see NB-2....the Grand Falls-Fredericton section in particular definitely doesn't warrant a freeway, but yet they got one.

If money could magically be found wasted for that, then money can easily be found wasted to turn QC-133 into a freeway.

FTFY

And furthermore, perhaps it's an inconvenient truth that NB-95 was upgraded to a freeway (this connects to I-95 obviously) roughly 10 years ago and has an AADT less than 2500.

The inconvenient truth of it is that politicians control the money, and politics don't necessarily allocate money towards the empirically demonstrated greatest need.
Logged
Blah blah, opinions expressed are my own.

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.