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Author Topic: Winter road trips  (Read 2209 times)

J N Winkler

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2018, 12:06:06 PM »

Speaking of tires, does anyone ever switch to snow tires?   I used to have a set that was essentially for snowy conditions that I would put on my car during winter trips on the Mogollon Rim or even just the Colorado Plateau.  Back in 2013 I went through all five National Parks in Utah plus Great Basin after a large snow storm.  The only park that gave me trouble was Arches where the snow was bad enough that I opted to turn around rather than put chains on.  The Island in the Sky Road in Canyonlands had snow the entire road but having the right tires made it passable with a reasonable pace which was well below the posted 35 MPH speed limit.

Admittedly I live in Cfa, but I have never owned a set of tires other than all-season radials.  Neither have I ever owned a set of snow chains.  The one time I actually laid eyes on a set of snow chains was many years ago, when visiting cousins in Switzerland, where car owners are required to carry chains in the vehicle in the winter at minimum (I think the requirement applies year-round).  I have never even seen snow chains installed in person, though I have seen it in YouTube videos and the like.

The impression I get is that having a separate set of winter tires (often left mounted on steelies year-round and stored in summer), or a separate "winter car," is much more common in Canada than it is in even the northern US.

My daily driver, a 1994 Saturn SL2, cannot even use snow chains.  The approved traction device is snow belts.  There was at one time an OEM set of snow belts under an eight-digit Saturn part number that could be specially ordered through GM dealers.  I think the last of those went to the NOS vendors years and years ago.  I think the only option that is conveniently accessible is a set of aftermarket snow belts, and a set of four costs $300 minimum.

In regard to winter road trips, my personal preference is to vacation where snow is less likely than at home, not just to reduce the likelihood of winter-related road accidents but also to minimize underbody corrosion due to deicing chemicals.  I have no set length of time for which I keep cars, because I assign far higher priority to not carrying a car payment, and I do have history of cars rusting out once they aged past 20 years.
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Rothman

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2018, 12:13:13 PM »

Wow.  So that's how reckless drivers think (Flint).

If you don't keep up, you get run off the road?  No, you don't.  If other idiots want to drive too fast for conditions, you stay to the right and they move around you.

All that spinning out must have done a number on your insurance premiums. :D
That doesn't happen in Michigan and this is driving in Detroit. Even if you stay to the right on a Detroit freeway you're still at risk to be tailgated and almost ran off the road. They tailgate like crazy in Detroit and drive like it's the Indy 500. And it did nothing to my insurance and btw I haven't spun out since and this was at least 15 years ago.
I have driven in Detroit more than once.  I never felt like I was going to be run off the round.
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vdeane

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2018, 01:21:25 PM »

In addition, "driving ability" goes out the window when there's snow on the ground, because it does nothing to improve traction on the road. You might be able to handle a car better at higher speeds on dry roads, but your tires are no better than anyone else's.

While it's true that packed snow and ice make gravity and inertia take more of a role in one's driving, I don't think it's fair to say driving ability goes out the window.  There has been a time or two when I was sliding off toward the ditch while at a full stop, and it's at that point you realize there are other forces at work than just your own driving ability.  However, getting through or out of such situations does have a lot to do with driving ability.  Being able to feather the gas pedal, steer in advance of turns, avoid obstructions without coming to a full stop, determine which roads are likely to be less dangerous than others, come out of fishtail, evaluate escape routes—these are things I'd call "driving ability."
Agreed.  Many people think safe winter driving is just a matter of "going slow" (doesn't help that the media perpetuates this myth), and then slow down way more than they need to and/or get in an accident anyways.  In snowy conditions, I'll often be slower to accelerate, and slow down/change lanes over a longer period of time.  Often it's not speed so much as avoiding sudden changes in momentum.

Regarding not coming to a full stop, that's very true when leaving my apartment.  The driveway feeds out onto the street on a downhill grade.  If it's snowy/icy, I'll look for traffic further up, where I can see the road for a distance in both directions, then just roll through slowly (ignoring the stop sign - not like I'll actually be able to stop at the end of that driveway when it's covered in ice anyways) when it's clear, making sure to not start turning until after my front tires have cleared the ice.

It's all about being able to judge road conditions and what your car can handle in them, and I'd absolutely say that falls under "driver ability".  Heck, it should be required to get a licence.  We have simulators these days, so no reason they can't put a winter driving scenario on the test.
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Flint1979

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2018, 03:59:28 PM »

Wow.  So that's how reckless drivers think (Flint).

If you don't keep up, you get run off the road?  No, you don't.  If other idiots want to drive too fast for conditions, you stay to the right and they move around you.

All that spinning out must have done a number on your insurance premiums. :D
That doesn't happen in Michigan and this is driving in Detroit. Even if you stay to the right on a Detroit freeway you're still at risk to be tailgated and almost ran off the road. They tailgate like crazy in Detroit and drive like it's the Indy 500. And it did nothing to my insurance and btw I haven't spun out since and this was at least 15 years ago.
I have driven in Detroit more than once.  I never felt like I was going to be run off the round.
Well it happens. Driving 80 mph in Detroit is the average speed, there are many people that drive over 80 mph and the speeds are not enforced on the freeways inside the city of Detroit. People drive the speed they are comfortable driving. I've lost count on how many times I've driven in Detroit, 80 mph is nothing.
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kphoger

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2018, 11:56:32 AM »

Heck, it should be required to get a licence.  We have simulators these days, so no reason they can't put a winter driving scenario on the test.

I have a friend who grew up in Iowa, and their driver's ed class spent time spinning donuts in the snow, so everyone in the class would know how to come out of a fishtail in the Iowa winter.
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kphoger

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2018, 01:57:02 PM »

I think this all goes back to me mentioning that I drive 80 mph on Interstate highways within the state of Michigan.

It goes back to more than that.  Your posts from last winter showed a noticeable amount of anger at other drivers.  You seem unwilling to accept that any other vehicle might slow you down at all—even if that driver moved over and slowed down to pass a stopped police car impeding the next lane over.

Note that all of the posts I quote below are from December and January, and several mention winter weather conditions.  And yes, I cherry-picked these quotes and do not intend for them to represent a "fair sampling" of everything you've posted.  There were other times you've mentioned slowing down in winter weather.  But, to my thinking at least, there's still a lot of aggression going on, and I'm wondering if that occasionally spills over into reckless driving.



Because people don't know how to drive in [snow]. Like today for example ... On just about every stretch of highway I drove on today I encountered slow moving traffic in the left lane and long lines of it too because for some reason people think that they are entitled to drive in the left lane and move at about 62 mph when your trying to do 80 mph. ... I only encountered one situation where I felt 80 mph might be a little too fast and that was in blizzard like conditions on I-96 between Lansing and Grand Rapids.

It's ridiculous I was on I-96 on Friday and everybody was using the left lane I got in the right lane to pass about 10 vehicles at a time which is all I could do to get back over I was doing a lot of weaving

If you don't know how to drive on an Interstate highway do us all a favor and don't get on the highway at all, there are alternate routes you can use.

I was in the left lane and had to slow down to 45 mph for something that was on the right shoulder that's not right.

And yes the cop had the right lane somewhat blocked but you could see the cop at least 3/4 of a mile from where he was there was plenty of time to move over and continue at least at the speed limit but nope there are just way too many people in Michigan that don't know how to drive and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.

There were a few times the other day that I just flat out punched it and was going about 95 mph to get around some of the slow pokes.

About a month or two ago I was in the left lane doing about 80 mph. A behind me was flashing his high beams at me and I didn't move over. Then he shines his side light at me and at that point I thought screw it and got over. It was a Michigan State cop. He didn't do anything to me though.
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1995hoo

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2018, 04:26:57 PM »

Speaking of tires, does anyone ever switch to snow tires?   I used to have a set that was essentially for snowy conditions that I would put on my car during winter trips on the Mogollon Rim or even just the Colorado Plateau.  Back in 2013 I went through all five National Parks in Utah plus Great Basin after a large snow storm.  The only park that gave me trouble was Arches where the snow was bad enough that I opted to turn around rather than put chains on.  The Island in the Sky Road in Canyonlands had snow the entire road but having the right tires made it passable with a reasonable pace which was well below the posted 35 MPH speed limit.

I don't use winter tires because the weather in the DC area generally isn't such that they'd confer a huge benefit. I've certainly heard that proper "winter tires" are better than all-season tires in colder weather, but it's not that frequent that we have sustained cold spells where the temperature drops below 20°F. Plus, frankly, storing another set of wheels and tires, especially for multiple cars, would be a big headache. There have been a few times on ski trips to Canada when I've wished I had winter tires, but that's been rare.

I remember when I was a kid, my father used to put what were then called "snow tires" on their Volvo sedan (a 165, I think, but I'm not sure). I don't remember where he stored the other tires nor whether he had two sets of wheels and tires. Maybe I'll ask him when I see him tomorrow if I remember. I recall they traded in that Volvo in 1979 and he never put "snow tires" or "winter tires" on the replacement car (a 265 wagon), nor has he done so on any of his other cars since then. I never have either. If I lived further north, or in the mountains, I'd probably reconsider that.
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kphoger

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2018, 04:29:03 PM »

I've never bought snow tires, but wet/snowy weather handling is my #1 criterion for purchasing all-season tires.
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Flint1979

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2018, 06:15:29 PM »

I think this all goes back to me mentioning that I drive 80 mph on Interstate highways within the state of Michigan.

It goes back to more than that.  Your posts from last winter showed a noticeable amount of anger at other drivers.  You seem unwilling to accept that any other vehicle might slow you down at all—even if that driver moved over and slowed down to pass a stopped police car impeding the next lane over.

Note that all of the posts I quote below are from December and January, and several mention winter weather conditions.  And yes, I cherry-picked these quotes and do not intend for them to represent a "fair sampling" of everything you've posted.  There were other times you've mentioned slowing down in winter weather.  But, to my thinking at least, there's still a lot of aggression going on, and I'm wondering if that occasionally spills over into reckless driving.



Because people don't know how to drive in [snow]. Like today for example ... On just about every stretch of highway I drove on today I encountered slow moving traffic in the left lane and long lines of it too because for some reason people think that they are entitled to drive in the left lane and move at about 62 mph when your trying to do 80 mph. ... I only encountered one situation where I felt 80 mph might be a little too fast and that was in blizzard like conditions on I-96 between Lansing and Grand Rapids.

It's ridiculous I was on I-96 on Friday and everybody was using the left lane I got in the right lane to pass about 10 vehicles at a time which is all I could do to get back over I was doing a lot of weaving

If you don't know how to drive on an Interstate highway do us all a favor and don't get on the highway at all, there are alternate routes you can use.

I was in the left lane and had to slow down to 45 mph for something that was on the right shoulder that's not right.

And yes the cop had the right lane somewhat blocked but you could see the cop at least 3/4 of a mile from where he was there was plenty of time to move over and continue at least at the speed limit but nope there are just way too many people in Michigan that don't know how to drive and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.

There were a few times the other day that I just flat out punched it and was going about 95 mph to get around some of the slow pokes.

About a month or two ago I was in the left lane doing about 80 mph. A behind me was flashing his high beams at me and I didn't move over. Then he shines his side light at me and at that point I thought screw it and got over. It was a Michigan State cop. He didn't do anything to me though.
Yup and most of those things you quoted were what's called impeding the flow of traffic. There is zero reason for anyone not passing to be in the left lane it's common sense and people fail to use it all the time. It's people that don't know how to drive on an Interstate highway that cause most of these problems. And you even quoted one of my experiences with a Michigan State cop which right there proves that they don't do anything for doing 80 mph. I don't know why you are trying to pound this out here anyway, 80 mph is only 10 mph over the speed limit and in northern Michigan only 5 mph over the limit and in other parts of the country, the speed limit. What is so hard to understand that 80 mph really isn't that fast? I was on US-10 earlier today between Bay City and Midland and the speed limit is 75, I was doing 80 and was getting passed left and right so obviously I'm not the only one out there that does 80 and people on this site have even mentioned 80 being what most Michigan drivers drive on the Interstate's. I slow down in the winter when the conditions are bad, never real happy about having to do it but I do it.
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vdeane

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2018, 07:16:59 PM »

Yup and most of those things you quoted were what's called impeding the flow of traffic. There is zero reason for anyone not passing to be in the left lane it's common sense and people fail to use it all the time. It's people that don't know how to drive on an Interstate highway that cause most of these problems. And you even quoted one of my experiences with a Michigan State cop which right there proves that they don't do anything for doing 80 mph. I don't know why you are trying to pound this out here anyway, 80 mph is only 10 mph over the speed limit and in northern Michigan only 5 mph over the limit and in other parts of the country, the speed limit. What is so hard to understand that 80 mph really isn't that fast? I was on US-10 earlier today between Bay City and Midland and the speed limit is 75, I was doing 80 and was getting passed left and right so obviously I'm not the only one out there that does 80 and people on this site have even mentioned 80 being what most Michigan drivers drive on the Interstate's. I slow down in the winter when the conditions are bad, never real happy about having to do it but I do it.
I think they're assuming you're trying to do 80 on snow-covered roadways.
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Flint1979

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2018, 08:23:42 PM »

Yup and most of those things you quoted were what's called impeding the flow of traffic. There is zero reason for anyone not passing to be in the left lane it's common sense and people fail to use it all the time. It's people that don't know how to drive on an Interstate highway that cause most of these problems. And you even quoted one of my experiences with a Michigan State cop which right there proves that they don't do anything for doing 80 mph. I don't know why you are trying to pound this out here anyway, 80 mph is only 10 mph over the speed limit and in northern Michigan only 5 mph over the limit and in other parts of the country, the speed limit. What is so hard to understand that 80 mph really isn't that fast? I was on US-10 earlier today between Bay City and Midland and the speed limit is 75, I was doing 80 and was getting passed left and right so obviously I'm not the only one out there that does 80 and people on this site have even mentioned 80 being what most Michigan drivers drive on the Interstate's. I slow down in the winter when the conditions are bad, never real happy about having to do it but I do it.
I think they're assuming you're trying to do 80 on snow-covered roadways.
That's what I'm thinking too. I wouldn't try that even though I wish I could be going 80 I go with the flow of traffic. I learned how to drive in Detroit in rush hour traffic and managed to learn a lot of things on my own.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2018, 09:51:13 PM »

That's what I'm thinking too. I wouldn't try that even though I wish I could be going 80 I go with the flow of traffic. I learned how to drive in Detroit in rush hour traffic and managed to learn a lot of things on my own.

I was in the left lane and had to slow down to 45 mph for something that was on the right shoulder that's not right.

And yes the cop had the right lane somewhat blocked but you could see the cop at least 3/4 of a mile from where he was there was plenty of time to move over and continue at least at the speed limit but nope there are just way too many people in Michigan that don't know how to drive and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.

Because learning from incompetent people is the best way to educate yourself.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2018, 10:55:01 PM »

Speaking of tires, does anyone ever switch to snow tires?   I used to have a set that was essentially for snowy conditions that I would put on my car during winter trips on the Mogollon Rim or even just the Colorado Plateau.  Back in 2013 I went through all five National Parks in Utah plus Great Basin after a large snow storm.  The only park that gave me trouble was Arches where the snow was bad enough that I opted to turn around rather than put chains on.  The Island in the Sky Road in Canyonlands had snow the entire road but having the right tires made it passable with a reasonable pace which was well below the posted 35 MPH speed limit.

I don't use winter tires because the weather in the DC area generally isn't such that they'd confer a huge benefit. I've certainly heard that proper "winter tires" are better than all-season tires in colder weather, but it's not that frequent that we have sustained cold spells where the temperature drops below 20°F. Plus, frankly, storing another set of wheels and tires, especially for multiple cars, would be a big headache. There have been a few times on ski trips to Canada when I've wished I had winter tires, but that's been rare.

I remember when I was a kid, my father used to put what were then called "snow tires" on their Volvo sedan (a 165, I think, but I'm not sure). I don't remember where he stored the other tires nor whether he had two sets of wheels and tires. Maybe I'll ask him when I see him tomorrow if I remember. I recall they traded in that Volvo in 1979 and he never put "snow tires" or "winter tires" on the replacement car (a 265 wagon), nor has he done so on any of his other cars since then. I never have either. If I lived further north, or in the mountains, I'd probably reconsider that.

Back in the days I was referring to I was on the road for work for 150 nights a year.  The winters on the Colorado Plateau for the most part were very tame but when a storm would hit it would dump a large amount of snow that was sustained due to the sheerness of the terrain blogging forward progress.  Cities like Ruidoso, Flagstaff, Show Low, and others on the Plateau were common stops which is why the winter tires were nice to have.  Granted I'm talking maybe only a month or two of driving but it was still worth to avoid being snowbound (which happened far more often than I liked) and having to slosh around putting chains on. 

Here in California basically everyone uses chains or cables.  The weather is far too warm for snow to really stick on the roads that remain open in the Sierras.  Snow above 4,000 feet can be bad with some areas getting 200 inches but the roads are usually clear within a couple hours of a storm ending.  It definitely isn't worth it snow to have a set of tires just for snow nowadays.

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2018, 07:22:32 AM »

Quote from: Max Rockatansky
Speaking of tires, does anyone ever switch to snow tires?

Snow tires are a necessity in northern New England during the winter, especially when one lives on a dirt road miles from pavement.
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Flint1979

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2018, 07:50:57 AM »

That's what I'm thinking too. I wouldn't try that even though I wish I could be going 80 I go with the flow of traffic. I learned how to drive in Detroit in rush hour traffic and managed to learn a lot of things on my own.

I was in the left lane and had to slow down to 45 mph for something that was on the right shoulder that's not right.

And yes the cop had the right lane somewhat blocked but you could see the cop at least 3/4 of a mile from where he was there was plenty of time to move over and continue at least at the speed limit but nope there are just way too many people in Michigan that don't know how to drive and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.

Because learning from incompetent people is the best way to educate yourself.
Yeah like I'm going to drive slow and cause an accident. It's just as dangerous to drive slow on a highway than it is to drive fast and this is under normal driving conditions, not driving on snow covered highways or icy highways. Yes I know you have to slow down when you are driving in winter weather conditions. I'm a very experienced driver and know what the hell I'm doing.
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hbelkins

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2018, 02:04:38 PM »

I've stated this before, but my biggest concern about driving on freeways when it's snowing that far too often, the trucks fly like it's sunny and 75 degrees.

Eight years ago, I was coming back from the post-Christmas SWPA road meet. At that time, my Toyota 4WD was still running, but I only ended up driving it because the battery on my Vue was dead that morning and it wouldn't start. My plan was to get back to Charleston that night. I hopped off I-79 at Fairmont to check out the new downtown connector, and it started snowing shortly after I got back on the interstate. The snow was falling fast enough that I gave serious thought to stopping at Weston for the night. I pressed on, though, and in retrospect I regret that decision. By the time I got to the Sutton area, there was enough snow on the road and it was getting dark enough that I, and most other drivers, slowed to about 45 mph. Not the trucks, though. They kept going at 65-70-75 mph. I just knew one was going to pass me, then spin out or jackknife, and collect me. I was a nervous wreck by the time I got to Charleston.

That basically justified my decision back in 2004 to bail off truck-infested I-81 at the start of a snowstorm in January, on my way back from DC, and instead take the pre-Corridor H route of VA 55, WV 55, WV 42, WV 93, WV 32 and US 219 to Elkins. My 4WD had no trouble with the deep snows, and I didn't have to worry about trucks driving too fast for conditions and claiming me as collateral damage.

One December, I was overnighting in NW Ohio and taking the long way back to some location in Michigan for a meet. I lost count of the drivers who had spun out on the Indiana Toll Road and then I-94 coming back east.

My truck is sitting with four flat tires now, and the tread is mostly gone from them to the point that the last time I drove it in the snow, it was of little use.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2018, 04:03:17 PM »

This is my personal gold standard for pileup videos, largely because it is unedited and so shows things as they first start to go wrong.  At the end you can see people getting out of their cars and running for the right-of-way fence to try to escape out-of-control trucks.

2018-02-05 pileup on I-35 near Ames, Iowa
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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2018, 04:28:49 PM »

^ There's also this video...much closer up up to the action...of a 61 car pileup four years ago near the Mendota Bridge on westbound MN 55 (inbound towards Minneapolis).  Can't always see things, but you definitely hear a continual stream of cars crashing into the back of the pileup.  Near the beginning, you hear the photographer telling people to jump over the barrier into the bike/ped lane to get out of the way.
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JREwing78

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2018, 08:32:46 PM »

Speaking of tires, does anyone ever switch to snow tires?

I do. Southern Wisconsin doesn't exactly get heavy snow, but it gets a fair amount of ice. The control they give me is well worth it. It also allows me to run summer-only tires in the more temperate months. 
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kphoger

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2018, 02:20:32 PM »

I think they're assuming you're trying to do 80 on snow-covered roadways.

That's what I'm thinking too.

Yes, that is the impression I was getting.  You had said that, on one trip, the only time you found it necessary to drop below 80 mph was in blizzard conditions;  I assumed there were non-blizzard snowy conditions in which you were fine driving 80 mph, because blizzards don't tend to come out of nowhere in my experience.  Now, there's not anything inherently wrong with driving the speed limit or even higher in light snow if the conditions are right (specifically, if the roadbed is warm enough that the snow immediately melts), but I was getting the impression you were bullheadedly sticking to 80 mph even as the snow started to pile up a bit.  Sorry for reading between the lines and ending up with a fictional story.

For the record, my fastest driving in Michigan was a sustained 88 mph.  My wife and son and I were headed to a wedding in Lakeside.  We had hit the south suburbs of Chicago at rush hour;  on 80/94, from the Bishop Ford to I-65, I don't think we ever went more than 25 mph.  Traffic cleared up at the I-65 junction, and it was like someone pulled the rope on the chute at the rodeo.  I wasn't the only one with pent-up frustration from driving so slowly for so long.  There were about four or five us doing between 85 and 90 mph for about 30 miles straight, and most others were doing a good 75 to 80.
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Flint1979

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2018, 08:29:07 PM »

I think they're assuming you're trying to do 80 on snow-covered roadways.

That's what I'm thinking too.

Yes, that is the impression I was getting.  You had said that, on one trip, the only time you found it necessary to drop below 80 mph was in blizzard conditions;  I assumed there were non-blizzard snowy conditions in which you were fine driving 80 mph, because blizzards don't tend to come out of nowhere in my experience.  Now, there's not anything inherently wrong with driving the speed limit or even higher in light snow if the conditions are right (specifically, if the roadbed is warm enough that the snow immediately melts), but I was getting the impression you were bullheadedly sticking to 80 mph even as the snow started to pile up a bit.  Sorry for reading between the lines and ending up with a fictional story.

For the record, my fastest driving in Michigan was a sustained 88 mph.  My wife and son and I were headed to a wedding in Lakeside.  We had hit the south suburbs of Chicago at rush hour;  on 80/94, from the Bishop Ford to I-65, I don't think we ever went more than 25 mph.  Traffic cleared up at the I-65 junction, and it was like someone pulled the rope on the chute at the rodeo.  I wasn't the only one with pent-up frustration from driving so slowly for so long.  There were about four or five us doing between 85 and 90 mph for about 30 miles straight, and most others were doing a good 75 to 80.
It's alright. It's just you misunderstood me is all no big deal. I stick to 80 mph when I can on the highway but also know that there are times that I won't be able to do 80 mph especially in the snow. I'll go as fast as the conditions allow me to go but I always have at the back of my mind man I wanna be doing 80 mph right now.

You're referring to the Lakeside that's at the southwestern corner of the state near New Buffalo right? Every time I hear Lakeside I think of the mall in Sterling Heights lol. Oh I hate the Borman Expressway that is constantly clogged with traffic especially with semi trucks. I know that route too well because I like to bypass the Skyway and head into Chicago on the Bishop Ford instead. That's how it gets quite honestly is you get frustrated with driving so slow that it just makes you drive worse. I've been in situations like that where we had just cleared from a traffic jam and about 4 or 5 of us just flat out punched it and kept going about 85-90 for miles.

There was a day in 2005 it was a Friday and the Red Sox and Cubs were playing at Wrigley Field. I was heading into Chicago in the morning and thought oh nice I'm going to go to a baseball game today but neither one is my favorite team so I just wanted to go and enjoy myself and have a good time and everything. I was already pretty deep into Chicago on the Dan Ryan and that curve where the Stevenson comes into the Dan Ryan where it goes down to 45 mph was some of the worst traffic I ever encountered. I sat in the same spot with no a/c in my truck for about a half hour and it's about 95 degrees outside and while I was sitting there my arm had become sunburnt. I finally got going again and remember I went to The Piano Man on Clark and Grace to get a ticket from a broker I knew then finally found a spot to park and took the El back up to the ballpark. I have several stories I could tell about driving in Chicago.
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Mark68

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2018, 03:10:41 PM »

February-April are the times when whether can be pretty bad for the Front Range & Rockies.

Of course, it can also be quite nice, especially in March & April, but those are our snowiest months.
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jander

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2018, 11:36:38 PM »

So I had the random idea of driving from San Francisco to Boise over Christmas.

While I know you all cant predict the weather, what is that drive like?

Thinking I-80 to US-95 to us-20 to us-395

Driving a Mustang and no interest in putting snow chains on it.

Is that drive super snowy, cliff side, high mountain passes?  Or is it generally an “easy” drive?

I guess my source of comparison is driving SF to Truckee. If its not snowing, its no big deal to drive up there in the winter, even if it had snowed the day before. If its snowing its a shit show, but it will be fine tomorrow.

Is driving to Boise like driving to Truckee, just longer? Or is it desolate blowing snow and treachery?
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2018, 12:07:20 AM »

So I had the random idea of driving from San Francisco to Boise over Christmas.

While I know you all cant predict the weather, what is that drive like?

Thinking I-80 to US-95 to us-20 to us-395

Driving a Mustang and no interest in putting snow chains on it.

Is that drive super snowy, cliff side, high mountain passes?  Or is it generally an “easy” drive?

I guess my source of comparison is driving SF to Truckee. If its not snowing, its no big deal to drive up there in the winter, even if it had snowed the day before. If its snowing its a shit show, but it will be fine tomorrow.

Is driving to Boise like driving to Truckee, just longer? Or is it desolate blowing snow and treachery?

If you take CA 70 through the Feather River Canyon you’ll largely avoid the snowiest parts of the Sierras.  CA 70 is part of Old US 40A and is beautiful highway running alongside the Feather River Railroad.  The highway and rails cross each other numerous times on separate grades, it’s a real treat to drive. N

Flint1979

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Re: Winter road trips
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2018, 05:40:29 PM »

So I had the random idea of driving from San Francisco to Boise over Christmas.

While I know you all cant predict the weather, what is that drive like?

Thinking I-80 to US-95 to us-20 to us-395

Driving a Mustang and no interest in putting snow chains on it.

Is that drive super snowy, cliff side, high mountain passes?  Or is it generally an “easy” drive?

I guess my source of comparison is driving SF to Truckee. If its not snowing, its no big deal to drive up there in the winter, even if it had snowed the day before. If its snowing its a shit show, but it will be fine tomorrow.

Is driving to Boise like driving to Truckee, just longer? Or is it desolate blowing snow and treachery?
I'm not sure on how this drive is actually but the route you insist on taking you would be going up I-80 to US-95 to US-20 then to US-395? Wouldn't that just involve riding around in a huge circle rather than going to Boise? I think the route you'd want to take would be I-80 to US-95 to Idaho SR-55 to I-84 to get to Boise. My whole point is that US-395 runs much further west and doesn't even enter Idaho at all.
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