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Author Topic: SR 789 (AZ)  (Read 574 times)

707

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SR 789 (AZ)
« on: September 21, 2018, 04:26:57 PM »

I remember Max Rockatansky stared in an earlier thread he was unsure if SR 789 was ever signed in Arizona. I found a very pixilated postcard scan proving SR 789 was indeed signed. This photo was taken at night on Stone Avenue in downtown Tucson about 1960. Four reassurance markers in Arizona kodachrome are visible in the lower right hand corner; US 80, US 89, SR 84 and SR 789. Mystery solved.

http://nostalgia.esmartkid.com/azroute80pc097.jpg

VS988

« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 12:27:19 AM by andy3175 »
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 11:50:27 PM »

Too bad there isn't a larger scan of that post card, looks like the state highway shields were colorized too.

707

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2018, 01:02:00 AM »

Indeed. At least it proves SR 789 was an actively signed state highway.
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KeithE4Phx

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2018, 01:23:42 AM »

Not sure about AZ 84 though.  IIRC, AZ 93 was signed along with US 89 and AZ 789 all the way to the border back in the early and mid 1960s.  My family visited Nogales in 1962, and I remember that highway being an 89-93-789 3-plex, complete with color borders indicating highway direction.
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707

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2018, 03:30:57 AM »

https://www.flickr.com/photos/edge_and_corner_wear/6339348976

I found this clearer version of the postcard. The numbers are very legible in this. For some reason this four way totem pole completely ignores SR 93. It's just the aforementioned four routes. Perhaps that means this is before the SR 93 extension and is the mid-1950s instead of 1960?
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KeithE4Phx

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2018, 01:08:49 PM »

https://www.flickr.com/photos/edge_and_corner_wear/6339348976

I found this clearer version of the postcard. The numbers are very legible in this. For some reason this four way totem pole completely ignores SR 93. It's just the aforementioned four routes. Perhaps that means this is before the SR 93 extension and is the mid-1950s instead of 1960?

Given the cars, as well as the highway signs, my guess is that this picture was taken no later than about 1956.
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707

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 10:25:50 PM »

https://www.flickr.com/photos/edge_and_corner_wear/6339348976

I found this clearer version of the postcard. The numbers are very legible in this. For some reason this four way totem pole completely ignores SR 93. It's just the aforementioned four routes. Perhaps that means this is before the SR 93 extension and is the mid-1950s instead of 1960?

Given the cars, as well as the highway signs, my guess is that this picture was taken no later than about 1956.

That was my guess as well. The signs are 1956 specs and SR 93 doesn't exist yet. It must be right after they changed the signs but before SR 93 was extended to Nogales. If that's true it would narrow it down to a specific time frame of 1956. Honestly though, it would be nice if we had more pics of road signs in Arizona.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2018, 05:06:23 PM »

I don't think the multi-state SR-789 should have been designated? What was the point of the former designation? As a way to connect Canada with Mexico?
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707

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2018, 09:08:45 PM »

SR 789 was meant as a border to border tourist highway that would bring in visitors to a few small towns. I cant remember where, but that's what Ive come to understand. I believe it was a state like Wyoming or Montana that originally came up with it. Dont quote me on that though. Either way, the people that promoted it wanted MSR 789 to become US 789. AASHO denied the request and MSR 789 slowly ceased to exist, except for WY 789. It was rejected mainly due to the fact 789 was concurrent with other U.S. Highways along almost its entire route, save for part of Wyoming. If it had been designated though, US 789 would have not been a violator as its route did meet with and concur with its implied parent.

VS988
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:13:15 PM by 707 »
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sparker

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2018, 09:34:39 PM »

Lore has it that MSR 789 was intended to be the western branch of the "Pan-American Highway".  Mexico designated three branches, along federal highways 15, 45, and 85 crossing the border respectively at Nogales, Juarez/El Paso, and Laredo.  85 is still designated the "Inter-American" highway on several maps.  However, the western branch, MSR 789, is the only one to receive specific U.S. numerical signage, intending to provide a scenic path through the mountain states and exiting into Canada via then-US 91 at Sweetwater, MT.  From there the "Pan American" route utilized AB4, AB3, AB2, and AB43 to get to the Alaska Highway, which was part of the corridor and terminating in Fairbanks.  Denial of the "US 789" request occurred about the same time the Interstate system was in the works; part of the rationale for gradually discontinuing MSR 789 was that it was presumed that international tourists would prefer to utilize Interstate highways through major cities rather than a 2-lane route through the Rockies.  But the large level of multiplexing certainly didn't help the cause.     
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 01:15:02 AM by sparker »
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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2018, 10:56:37 PM »

AL4, AL3, AL2, and AL43

The first three are overlapped with US routes, and the last one does not exist as US 43 exists in Alabama.

(Alberta is AB.)
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sparker

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2018, 01:14:12 AM »

AL4, AL3, AL2, and AL43

The first three are overlapped with US routes, and the last one does not exist as US 43 exists in Alabama.

(Alberta is AB.)

My bad.  Will edit.  SP
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andy3175

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 12:28:22 AM »

Our research on 789, from Arizona to Montana, is outlined on the following page:

https://www.aaroads.com/west/us-789_wy.html

Quote
Matt Salek researched State Route 789 to determined that State Route 789 was designated in 1954 as the Canada to Mexico Highway. Matt found a book written in 1976 entitled The High Road at the Colorado State Library. Here is an excerpt from that publication:

There was also a route from Dallas to Canada via Denver called the D.C.D. This followed the Great North and South Highway through Colorado, but reports indicate interest in this road lagged somewhat by the time it reached Montana. Years later, interest in a continuous north and south route was rekindled. A concerted drive resulted in signing U.S. 789 [now Colorado 789] which runs through far Western Colorado. This route was originally promoted as a Canada-to-Mexico Highway, running from Nogales, Arizona, to Sweet Grass, Montana.

Matt also indicates that on both the 1972 and 1980 Colorado Department of Highways (predecessor of Colorado DOT) maps, Route 789 is given special mention in the map legend. There is the symbol that is used on the map (circle with 789 in it), then next to it it says "Mexico-Canada Highway (through Colorado)". Also, the 789 designation is not exclusively used on any stretch of highway; it's carried concurrently with whatever the normal designation of the highway is (Colorado 13, U.S. 550, etc.). So Colorado didn't do what Wyoming did, renumbering the route to only be 789.

However, 789 is not shown on the 1955 Colorado map, but it appears on the 1954 Wyoming map. Matt and I think either Wyoming was premature or Colorado might have been a little late in adding Route 789 to their state maps.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 05:31:33 PM »

I once saw on the US Highways 1-830 page that SR-789 in Wyoming from the Wyoming/Colorado border near Baggs, to present-day Interstate 80/US 30 near Creston was once proposed to be part of an extension of US 187. Is this accurate?
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707

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2018, 01:28:40 PM »

I once saw on the US Highways 1-830 page that SR-789 in Wyoming from the Wyoming/Colorado border near Baggs, to present-day Interstate 80/US 30 near Creston was once proposed to be part of an extension of US 187. Is this accurate?
Not sure. I'll dig through archived shots of Droz's old webpage and let you know.

VS988

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US 89

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2018, 05:58:56 PM »

I'd never heard about this before, but look at this AAroads page:

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According to a 1938 Texaco map of Utah, U.S. 187 was at one time planned to continue beyond its Rock Springs to Moran Junction routing. Plans called for "NEW" U.S. 187 to continue "southward" along U.S. 30 East, then turn south on Baggs Road at Creston Junction (modern Wyoming 789). The map showed "NEW" U.S. 187 heading south into Colorado, where it would have likely connected with modern Colorado 13. This southern extension of U.S. 187 was never adopted nor signed, but I suspect that Rand McNally may have known of a possible extension that was ultimately rejected by AASHTO, the Wyoming or Colorado Highway Departments, or other local entities.

I assume the original plan was to end it at US 40 in Craig, but perhaps they had it going all the way down to Rifle, where it would have ended at either US 40S, US 24, or US 6/24 depending on exactly when this was proposed.

I've always felt that CO 13/WY 789 should really be a US Highway -- especially the part between US 40 and I-80. Simply because of a lack of better numbering alternatives, I'd always thought it would be a good US 550 northward extension which would replace CO 141, though that would involve significant concurrencies on US 50 and I-70. I guess 187 wouldn't be terrible, since the north end at Creston Jct would be fairly close to US 287
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sparker

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Re: SR 789 (AZ)
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2018, 03:44:26 AM »

I'd never heard about this before, but look at this AAroads page:

Quote
According to a 1938 Texaco map of Utah, U.S. 187 was at one time planned to continue beyond its Rock Springs to Moran Junction routing. Plans called for "NEW" U.S. 187 to continue "southward" along U.S. 30 East, then turn south on Baggs Road at Creston Junction (modern Wyoming 789). The map showed "NEW" U.S. 187 heading south into Colorado, where it would have likely connected with modern Colorado 13. This southern extension of U.S. 187 was never adopted nor signed, but I suspect that Rand McNally may have known of a possible extension that was ultimately rejected by AASHTO, the Wyoming or Colorado Highway Departments, or other local entities.

I assume the original plan was to end it at US 40 in Craig, but perhaps they had it going all the way down to Rifle, where it would have ended at either US 40S, US 24, or US 6/24 depending on exactly when this was proposed.

I've always felt that CO 13/WY 789 should really be a US Highway -- especially the part between US 40 and I-80. Simply because of a lack of better numbering alternatives, I'd always thought it would be a good US 550 northward extension which would replace CO 141, though that would involve significant concurrencies on US 50 and I-70. I guess 187 wouldn't be terrible, since the north end at Creston Jct would be fairly close to US 287

Applying a US 187 designation to CO 13 & WY 789 between I-70 and I-80 wouldn't be a bad idea; the previous iteration of US 187 existed for several decades disconnected from its parent (after US 87W was renumbered in the '30's), so there's some semblance of a precedent for this.   
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