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Author Topic: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand  (Read 592 times)

Brian556

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This is really strange because on GSV, you can see tons of old BUSINESS US 59/SH 43 assemblies still standing, but the route does not appear on old TXDOT General Highway Maps.

Right now my best guess is that, starting on the south side of town, BUS US 59 headed W on SH 43 (Pinecrest), then turned N on Washington, where it became BUS US 59/ SH 43. From there, I believe it turned E on Travis, then N on Alamo. At US 80, the assembly confirms that it turned E on US 80 back to the parent route.

The 1936 map shows US 59 still on the route. The 1961 map shows that US 59/ SH 43 had been moved to a new route north of Pinecrest, but US 59 was still on Washington south of Pinecrest. The 1961 map does not show the business route to be on the state highway system, even though the route markers are newer than 1961.

The old assemblies are on Washington from SH 43 (Pinecrest) to Travis. There is a full assembly NB Alamo at US 80 that includes the Business Route.

Marshall is in Harrison County if you want to look at he old maps.

Old Maps at TSL: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/apps/arc/maps/main.php
Old Assembly: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.541364,-94.3676281,3a,20.7y,189.65h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWTMVqwc8yDkLTNpjJ6A9vg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Old Intersection Assembly at Alamo & US 80: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5483781,-94.3632423,3a,17.3y,22.77h,93.04t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sKM4LCTSVBbEOm1VnV66Nng!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DKM4LCTSVBbEOm1VnV66Nng%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D138.12039%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

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US71

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2018, 06:54:45 PM »




Taken 2012
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Brian556

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2019, 12:28:51 AM »

I have just found that there was also a BUSINESS US 80 in Marshall.

In both of these photos, taken on the westside of the courthouse square, you can see a BUSINESS WEST 80 ---> Sign

Best View (No Date Given):https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth18132/?q=harrison%20county

This image shows it still there in 1981:https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth955011/m1/1/?q=harrison%20county

BUSINESS US 59/ US 80/ SH 43, all on one post (1978):https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth18111/m1/1/?q=harrison%20county

Reassurance, BUSINESS WEST US 80, looking W on Houston St https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth18170/m1/1/?q=harrison%20county

Not BUS Route Related, but this one is interesting cause it shows SH 154 combined with US 80: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth18130/?q=harrison%20county

Something else that I noticed in these photos is that the square was paved was asphalt. Today is brick and looks old
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US71

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2019, 09:45:14 AM »

I have just found that there was also a BUSINESS US 80 in Marshall.



I've seen it on a map or two, but all the signs are gone. I may be that way later this year, so I'll try to remember to look.

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Brian556

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2019, 10:28:04 PM »

I have just found that there was also a BUSINESS US 80 in Marshall.



I've seen it on a map or two, but all the signs are gone. I may be that way later this year, so I'll try to remember to look.

Thanks, but there is nothing to really look for. Ive driven all these streets, and can look on GSV

Just found another clue in this pic: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth18170/m1/1/zoom/?q=marshall&resolution=0.5&lat=1465.266085385536&lon=810.3999938964839, There is an assembly on the right side of westbound Houston St at Franklin St. The bottom plaque is faded and not legible, but due to its shape, and the presence of another assembly at the intersection facing traffic that is southbound on Franklin, Id say the assembly on the right is BUSINESS 80 --->.
This would mean the business route used Franklin to get back to the parent route west of the square. It is interesting that FM 3379 was commissioned on the old US 80 west of the Marshall city limits in 1978

The only thing left uncertain is the route of BUSINESS US 80 east of the square. I say its likely that it turned left with BUSINESS US 59/SH 43 from Houston onto Alamo, but I can't be certain. If only I could find an old pic of the Alamo/Houston Intersection

Heres yet another photo wiith signs. E Houston St at S Washington St (S side of square) https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth681643/m1/1/?q=marshall

Business routes with cutouts: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth682538/m1/1/?q=marshall

BUS US 59 US 80 SH 43, 300 E Houston (Methodist Church)https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth946205/?q=marshall

Another: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth947062/m1/1/?q=marshall

Nice square Coke Sign with clock: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth957438/m1/1/?q=marshall
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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2019, 02:23:36 AM »

Interesting that the Alamo/Grand intersection has the West TX 154 assembly but yet there is nothing else around, west on Grand or otherwise.  The nearest current TX 154 assembly to that is the one where it intersects/terminates at Loop 390.

I checked the Designation Files, and there's nothing listed for history or past instances of Bus US 59 or Bus TX 43 in Marshall.  I wonder when or if the route was ever 'official'.  I guess there could be paperwork for it that didn't get posted online.
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US71

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2019, 07:09:52 AM »

Interesting that the Alamo/Grand intersection has the West TX 154 assembly but yet there is nothing else around, west on Grand or otherwise.  The nearest current TX 154 assembly to that is the one where it intersects/terminates at Loop 390.

I checked the Designation Files, and there's nothing listed for history or past instances of Bus US 59 or Bus TX 43 in Marshall.  I wonder when or if the route was ever 'official'.  I guess there could be paperwork for it that didn't get posted online.

154 has its own history. NW of Marshall, it was part of the Jefferson Highway.

(from Wikipedia)
On January 28, 2005, the section of SH 154 from US 59 to FM 31 was cancelled as it was never built, and the concurrent portions were removed, with the section of SH 154 south of Loop 390 to SH 43 becoming part of Loop 390
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 10:23:53 AM by US71 »
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Brian556

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2019, 10:12:12 AM »

Interesting that the Alamo/Grand intersection has the West TX 154 assembly but yet there is nothing else around, west on Grand or otherwise.  The nearest current TX 154 assembly to that is the one where it intersects/terminates at Loop 390.

I checked the Designation Files, and there's nothing listed for history or past instances of Bus US 59 or Bus TX 43 in Marshall.  I wonder when or if the route was ever 'official'.  I guess there could be paperwork for it that didn't get posted online.

Remember that these business routes were in the designation files under an unsigned loop number, which we have no way of knowing
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NE2

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2019, 06:32:32 PM »

Remember that these business routes were in the designation files under an unsigned loop number, which we have no way of knowing
Or they were locally maintained routes.
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Brian556

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2019, 07:47:57 PM »

Remember that these business routes were in the designation files under an unsigned loop number, which we have no way of knowing
Or they were locally maintained routes.

I've never heard of a "locally maintained route" that is signed by TxDOT not being included in the designation files.

It is also worth noting that we have not been able to find a designation file for former BUSINESS US 77 in Denton.
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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2019, 07:59:33 PM »

I've never heard of a "locally maintained route" that is signed by TxDOT not being included in the designation files.
Then you've never heard of the business routes in Marshall.
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US71

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2019, 08:48:41 PM »

I've never heard of a "locally maintained route" that is signed by TxDOT not being included in the designation files.
Then you've never heard of the business routes in Marshall.

Even though 59/43 was partially posted as of a few years ago.

That being said, Wikipedia has no mention of any auxiliary routes for US 59 such as Bus 59 at Marshall or Lufkin nor By-Pass 59 at Poteau, OK.  It doesn't even mention when 59 went through Texarkana instaed of around.  Just sayin'  :)
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Brian556

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Re: Marshall TX - FMR BUS US 59/ SH 43 Not on Old Maps, Signs Still Stand
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2019, 10:17:24 PM »

I did find a good explanation for why SH 154 is on that assembly at Grand & Alamo. A map from 1932 shows that US 80 was still on Houston St, but SH 154 was on Grand from where W Loop 390 is today east to Downtown.
Here's a link that I posted previously that shows Us 80 and SH 154 co-signed on W Grand.

Interestingly, the designation file says that SH 154 was to be extended south on what is now Loop 390 from US 80 to SH 43. It would then be co-signed with SH 43 east to US 59. It would then continue east on a new road to FM 31, and combine with FM 31 SE to I-20.
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