Denver or Dallas Fort Worth airport - which is best?

[Truvelo]

I need your help here.

Now that the restrictions on baggage on flights to the US are gradually being eased I'm now thinking of resuming my visits to the US so I can take my DSLR's with me. One of the events I'm thinking of attending is in Albuquerque and the nearest I can get direct flights to from the UK are Denver and Dallas. One thing I can't stand at airports are long lines at immigration and check-in. Has anyone used either or both of these airports and knows how bad they are for delays and queuing? Also, what about delays at car rental desks? Last year at Phoenix I had to wait well over an hour for a car as the line was out the door due to just two clerks on duty.

Also how's it like to drive to Albuquerque from either of these places with regards to congestion and tolls?

I've had so many bad experiences and on one occasion got to my hotel at 1am after been traveling for 24 hours. I don't want a repeat of this ever again.

[J N Winkler]

I have gone through immigration at Dallas, but not at Denver.  It does not take long to clear immigration at Dallas.  It is also significantly less likely to get snow than Denver.

There are no toll facilities in New Mexico and none of the toll highways in Texas and Colorado are on a direct itinerary between Albuquerque and Dallas or Denver.  There should not be any problems with congestion unless you try leaving Denver or Dallas at rush hour.  If I had to do the final leg of the journey by car (which I don't recommend, personally--I would suggest instead catching a connecting flight to Albuquerque, of which there should be plenty from either city), I would go for I-25 out of Denver because the overall route is shorter (420 miles), although I-25 between Denver and Colorado Springs is somewhat more heavily trafficked than is strictly comfortable for a rural Interstate signed for 75 MPH.  Dallas is 650 miles away from Albuquerque and a long section of the route is via US 287, which is four-lane divided (not a full freeway except possibly in the vicinity of Wichita Falls) between Fort Worth and Amarillo and cuts through all the small towns along the way.  Also, in Texas you have to deal with day/night speed limits and none of the counties you would be passing through qualifies for 75 or 80 MPH, so you have to deal with a 65 MPH limit for any part of the journey you do at night.

Watch out for bag charges.  I can't speak for BA or other British airlines, but when I flew home over Christmas (via American), two bags (each subject to the 23 kg limit) were free on the way out, but I had to pay $50 for the second bag on the way back.

[Truvelo]

I'm not going until June so hopefully the arctic conditions will have gone by then.

I'm not worried about the distance. I do over 60k a year for work so I'm used to it plus I like exploring areas I've never been. I'll probably turn off the main route every now and then and take a tour of some of the towns en-route. If I fly to Denver I'll take some of the routes through the forest in one direction and I-25 on the return journey.

A problem I've found with internal US flights is they now all tend to have no free checked baggage allowance. As I take two 23kg bags with me plus the carry-ons it will add to the cost. As for transatlantic flights they all used to have two 23kg checked bags for free but because of the financial crisis the airline industry is facing they lowered the allowance to only one 23kg bag. To check in an additional bag now costs $50 although I'm not sure if this is for each flight or for the round trip as like you I only paid the $50 going and nothing coming back. This came in sometime Autumn/Fall 2009 and looks very unlikely to return to the previous allowance, even if the airlines become profitable. There are still higher free allowances for business and first class as well as 32kg per bag instead of 23kg but I'm reluctant to keep spending so much on flights.

[corco]

Denver's not too bad- the one thing with flying into DIA (Denver Int'l) and renting a car is that the rental car companies will try to force a spendy $5/$10 day fee on you to use the E-470 tollway (which they'll charge for the duration of your rental, not just the days you use E-470). Don't do this. It's a waste of money and rental car companies feel like they can hold unfamiliar travelers hostage because E-470 is the most convenient route out of the airport. It is an optional fee though, and they'll ask you if you want it. Tell them you won't, they'll say "OMG E-470 IS THE GREATEST," tell them "No thanks" and then you won't get signed up for it.

Take Pena Blvd to I-225 to 25, and that's sufficient (and free). The downside is that during rush hour 225 can get kind of congested.

That said- I've gone from DIA to Castle Rock via I-225 during rush hour, and it's never taken more than about 90 minutes to do that stretch (about 60 miles), and once you're there you're home free as far as traffic goes. The road to C-Springs is fast, and Colorado drivers are...well...idiots (I've never seen a group of drivers that brake for no reason on the freeway more often), but if you just do your thing and keep up with the flow of traffic and as much room in front of you as possible it's not too bad.

Both rental car facilities are off site- but the plus for DIA is that it's on your way out of the airport anyway.

I don't have much experience with Dallas/Ft Worth- I've only connected there, and I'm not sure what passport control is like at either place. DIA security lines flow pretty well for getting out, though.

I don't know much about Dallas (I've connected there, but that's it)- if it were me I'd almost certainly fly into Denver, especially if it's June, if only because the drive from Denver to Albuquerque is almost certainly way more interesting than Denver to Dallas.

If you're taking a side route down, I'd highly recommend taking US-285 down to Santa Fe- I haven't done all of it but have done most of it, and it's really a beautiful and engaging drive that isn't too cumbersome (you're not constantly slowing to 35 MPH for curves- you can average 58-60 the whole way down including slows for curves and towns)- if you do that during rush hour you'd want to take 225 south to 25 to State Highway 470 (the free part) west to US-285

[J N Winkler]

A problem I've found with internal US flights is they now all tend to have no free checked baggage allowance. As I take two 23kg bags with me plus the carry-ons it will add to the cost.

This is not true if you book the UK-Denver and Denver-Albuquerque flights on the same journey.  On the outbound journey you would pay the luggage fees only once, at check-in at your UK airport, and the luggage allowance for international travel would extend all the way to Albuquerque.  This is how I fly from London to Wichita, connecting through Chicago.  For international journeys you still get the first 23-kg bag free.

You would still have to pay the $50 bag charge again (for an international journey) on check-in at Albuquerque for the return to the UK.

I don't know if this practice is universal among airlines, but when I flew United between San Francisco and Wichita (connecting through LAX and Denver), as part of a complex open-jaw itinerary beginning and ending in London, I was given the international luggage allowance (which at the time was two 23-kg bags free) for this leg of the journey even though it was entirely within the US.  This was with United back in September.

As for transatlantic flights they all used to have two 23kg checked bags for free but because of the financial crisis the airline industry is facing they lowered the allowance to only one 23kg bag. To check in an additional bag now costs $50 although I'm not sure if this is for each flight or for the round trip as like you I only paid the $50 going and nothing coming back.

I am not sure either.  I have to clarify, however.  I was charged the $50 on the return journey (i.e., Wichita to London), not on the outbound journey (London to Wichita).   My experience has been that luggage fees are charged per leg and you get charged the schedule that is in effect when you check in for a given leg, not the schedule that was in effect when you booked.  In my case I flew out before the $50 bag charge came into effect and flew back after.

Where transatlantic flights are concerned, my "home" airport is actually London rather than any airport in the US.  The reason for this is that my first trip to London was paid for by a third party and was a single journey, so it left me in the UK with no ticket out.  Singles cost almost as much as return tickets, and I am not yet in a position to arrange a travel itinerary that leaves me in the US with no ticket out.

This came in sometime Autumn/Fall 2009 and looks very unlikely to return to the previous allowance, even if the airlines become profitable. There are still higher free allowances for business and first class as well as 32kg per bag instead of 23kg but I'm reluctant to keep spending so much on flights.

The $50 fee came in (with American) sometime in December 2009 or January 2010--I suspect the latter. 

In regard to flights, my philosophy is "it costs what it costs."  You can try to shave the cost a little by going to ticket aggregators, booking well in advance, and manipulating your leaving and returning dates, but after all that you will still be left with a ticket that is pretty damn expensive.  Part of that is the UK's fault--I forget the exact figures, but air passenger duty has been raised steeply over the past few years and I think I am probably paying around $100 more in APD than I was five years ago.  Moreover, oil is significantly more expensive than it was a few years ago and airlines are only imperfectly insulated from this through their futures contracts.  Plus, sterling is significantly weaker in relation to the US dollar than it was a few years ago.

My suggestion in regard to the $50 bag fee is to check in just one 23-kg bag and to avoid taking any fragile items which would require a hard-sided suitcase.  This charge will force me to revise my own packing strategies as well since I have been travelling for years with a hard-sided suitcase (purchased back when you could still check in two 32-kg bags free of charge) whose tare weight is easily 10 kg.  It makes much more sense these days to travel with a rucksack, with fragile items like books securely bubble-wrapped.

[J N Winkler]

I don't know much about Dallas (I've connected there, but that's it)- if it were me I'd almost certainly fly into Denver, especially if it's June, if only because the drive from Denver to Albuquerque is almost certainly way more interesting than Denver to Dallas.

It is.  The US 287/I-40 route between Dallas and Albuquerque is flat pretty much all the way to Tijeras Canyon.  On the other hand, I-25 has the Front Range off to the right, so the views are pretty reliable, and it actually gets into the mountains between Las Vegas and Santa Fé (in fact you have to be alert on this stretch at night since some of the curves are tricky).

N.B.  Coming from Britain, you have to be prepared for significantly less daylight because the route in general is about 15°-20° lower in latitude and thus summer days are shorter.  You can't count, for example, on landing at 6 PM and then having another five or six hours of driving time before it is full-on dark.

If you're taking a side route down, I'd highly recommend taking US-285 down to Santa Fe- I haven't done all of it but have done most of it, and it's really a beautiful and engaging drive that isn't too cumbersome (you're not constantly slowing to 35 MPH for curves- you can average 58-60 the whole way down including slows for curves and towns)- if you do that during rush hour you'd want to take 225 south to 25 to State Highway 470 (the free part) west to US-285

I have done long lengths of US 285 in both Colorado and New Mexico and I can second this recommendation.  US 285 supports a high and consistent cruising speed in both states because the parts of it that are behind the Front Range (it leaves the mountains at Santa Fé) run mostly through long mountain valleys.  There is a longish diversion at US 64 to see the Rio Grande River bridge, but it is worth it if there is enough light left to see the bridge.  You then have the choice of backtracking to take US 285 the rest of the way to Santa Fé, or continuing east on US 64 to take NM 68 south of Taos.  I'd go for the latter because NM 68 follows the gorge closely, dipping into it at one point.  You just have to be prepared to see the odd boulder that has rolled down and smashed the Jersey barrier at the side.

P.S.  Be careful with the table service in Colorado restaurants--there is a high proportion of restaurants (particularly in small towns in the mountains) where it can take up to an hour for the wait staff to take an order, give you the check, etc.

[mightyace]

A problem I've found with internal US flights is they now all tend to have no free checked baggage allowance. As I take two 23kg bags with me plus the carry-ons it will add to the cost.

The is at least one exception, Southwest Airlines, they still have two free bags of up to 50 lbs.  If I have to fly and have any choice that's who I'll take.  But, part of how they keep cost down is that you can only book them online on their own site.

I just checked and Southwest has two nonstops from Denver to Albuquerque daily and is $142 one way.

Since Southwest flies out of Love Field not DFW, they are not an option for Dallas.

[Truvelo]

OK, here's the deal. Having taken in the comments people have made I've booked the flight which arrives in Denver at 4pm. I guess once I clear immigration and get the rental car it's going to be well into the rush hour. Someone mentioned upthread about taking 225 and 25 south to 470 and then onto US-285. Google comes up with I-70 and 470 round the northwest of Denver to reach 285. Is this going to be a problem during rush hour?

I intend to stay somewhere that night near Fairplay on 285. I have to reach Albuquerque the following evening so is it possible to reach Albuquerque in a day whilst taking in the sights?

[J N Winkler]

I'll leave others to comment about rush-hour traffic in Denver, but I would not expect the peak period to last that long.

Fairplay to Albuquerque is only 335 miles via the US 285 corridor, so it is eminently doable in one day with sightseeing.  It is worth leaving US 285 temporarily at the Alamosa cutoff (SR 17) and seeing the Great Sand Dunes--you will probably save mileage overall and the dunes are worth the visit.  The parts of US 285 you will be driving are a pretty straight shot south of Salida.  I would expect some curvy stretches north of there, but I last drove this route in 1996 and do not remember it in enough detail to be sure.  (I can't comment on US 285 between Denver and the Leadville turnoff because I haven't actually driven it.)

Keep in mind that in the part of Colorado behind the Front Range, even the valley floors are at quite a high altitude.  This may affect your subjective energy level in the short term.  (Some people feel tired at high altitudes until they adapt, while others like me keep charging ahead until they hit a wall.  In my case this was syncope after a hot shower.)  Also, the high altitude has to be taken into account when planning and executing overtaking maneuvers.  On two-lane roads in rural mountainous Colorado you will run into a lot of vehicles you want to pass (there is never enough money to widen them out to an acceptable LOS) and the engine power available for passing will be significantly less than at lower altitudes.  Cruise control will be almost unusable on long uphill grades and you may even have to shift down to a lower gear range to avoid losing speed.

[tmthyvs]

Your best bet getting to 285 is probably NOT the 225-25-470-285 but 70-470-285. It's considerably more direct (11 miles shorter) and will have fewer traffic issues. I-70 will be the worst you see, and I've never seen it get too horribly congested, whereas I-225 will be stop and go for several miles. Anything you might encounter on I-70 you'll encounter for the rest of I-225, as well as I-25 and C-470. My suggested route would be

Pena Boulevard from the airport (10 miles), which merges into...
I-70 W (23.3 miles), take exit 260 onto
C-470 E (signed to Colorado Springs) (5.7 miles). The third exit will take you onto
US-285 S (signed to Fairplay), and you are set.

[corco]

Yeah, I concur on that- for some reason that routing didn't even occur to me when I suggested the 225 route. 225 is a pain in the ass during rush hour, and 70 can be too for a couple miles through downtown, but overall that's a much faster route.

[Truvelo]

A little update on this.

I've booked a hotel room just off 470 near Ken Caryl. I decided against trying to make it to Fairplay. From southwestern Denver to Albuquerque via US-285 is still achievable in 9 hours according to Google Maps.

[corco]

I've booked a hotel room just off 470 near Ken Caryl. I decided against trying to make it to Fairplay. From southwestern Denver to Albuquerque via US-285 is still achievable in 9 hours according to Google Maps.

You'll easily be able to do it in seven (stops not included), probably six and a half.

[Truvelo]

I've just come back and here's what happened.

The hotel just off 470 starts breakfast at 6am so I had breakfast then which gives me all day to get to Albuquerque where I arrived at 3:30pm. I probably could have done it in six and a half hours but I stopped so many times to take pictures that it was more like nine hours. I had intended to arrive in the late afternoon so even with the stops I still arrived on time. I took some pictures which are shown in this thread.

[bugo]

The Dallas airport is better.  The Denver airport has those creepy murals.

[agentsteel53]

The Dallas airport is better.  The Denver airport has those creepy murals.

actually, it's pretty funny when people try to make up absurd conspiracy theories about secret underground passages beneath the Denver airport, with the murals being all kinds of secret codes for who knows what...

dunno what there is in Dallas that is the equivalent of that.

[Truvelo]

I didn't see any murals unless you mean the artwork in the middle of each concourse by the train station, speaking of which the automated PA system is annoying. One train has a male voice and the other a female voice. When the trains are about to stop there's a weird rock'n'roll type tune. Sometimes the announcement says something like "clear the door, you are delaying the departure of this train".

I did well with the flight home. The plane at the gate was smaller than the one normally used so there wasn't enough seats. I volunteered to be transferred onto the following day's flight and in return I got $400 compensation, an upgraded seat worth $100, a night at the Marriott and a $15 meal voucher to spend at the Marriott. As I was only flying home it didn't matter if I returned a day late but the $400 will mean my next flight will be half price. I also checked the prices on Marriott's website and the cheapest room is $200 although I expect the airline would have negotiated a deal with the hotel to take stranded passengers. I must admit the hotel was one of the nicest I've stayed at and the $200 isn't out of the way for the quality and service I received.

[agentsteel53]

I did well with the flight home. The plane at the gate was smaller than the one normally used so there wasn't enough seats. I volunteered to be transferred onto the following day's flight and in return I got $400 compensation, an upgraded seat worth $100, a night at the Marriott and a $15 meal voucher to spend at the Marriott. As I was only flying home it didn't matter if I returned a day late but the $400 will mean my next flight will be half price. I also checked the prices on Marriott's website and the cheapest room is $200 although I expect the airline would have negotiated a deal with the hotel to take stranded passengers. I must admit the hotel was one of the nicest I've stayed at and the $200 isn't out of the way for the quality and service I received.

wow!  the most I've ever been compensated is $175 or so.  Then again I only agreed to take an evening flight instead of a morning one, thereby causing me to spend about 8 hours roaming around the airport.

[Truvelo]

It may depend on whether the flight is international or domestic. The $400 is a standard amount from United if you're denied a seat but that may only be for long haul lights. I expect domestic flights would be a lot less, especially as you said if there's another flight later the same day. The Denver-Heathrow route operated by United runs just one flight each way a day so overnight accommodation would be compulsory. Furthermore it only operates during the summer so I'd like to know what happens if it was the final flight of the year. Do they give you a $200 a night room until the flight resumes next spring . British Airways also operates that route which I think is year round but I doubt they would put you on a rival airline's flight.

I'm aware that this sort of thing happens regularly, especially as flights are overbooked but this is the first time I've taken advantage of it. As I said in my previous post, if it's the return flight I don't mind if I arrive back a day late as I would only be spending the next day at home reviewing the pictures I have taken.

[corco]

British Airways also operates that route which I think is year round but I doubt they would put you on a rival airline's flight.

They'd probably fly you to O'Hare and then send you to Heathrow, where United has several London-Chicago flights. I have been put on a rival airline's flight once- in the late 90s my family was flying from either O'Hare or DFW to Salt Lake City and the Delta flight we were scheduled on was cancelled so they flew us on mainline American (not American Eagle)(there was definitely no codesharing or anything between those two airlines at that time)- that said, that was several years ago. I can't imagine the airlines being that nice in 2010.

My Dad was also flying Delta internationally multiple times a month at the time and was a super double platinum Skymiles member (or whatever the very very top is), so they may have gone out of their way just to keep him happy as well.