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Author Topic: XNA Wants State Built Access  (Read 946 times)

US71

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XNA Wants State Built Access
« on: December 14, 2018, 12:34:05 PM »

 XNA / Northwest Arkansas Regional Aipoort now wants ARDOT to help build their south access road. Originally, this was going to be a privately-funded toll road connecting to the US 412 Bypass.

Personally, I think Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JB Hunt should pay for it since it's their airport.
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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 08:28:25 PM »

The most-trafficked Airport 980 ever.
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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2018, 03:37:24 AM »

XNA / Northwest Arkansas Regional Aipoort now wants ARDOT to help build their south access road. Originally, this was going to be a privately-funded toll road connecting to the US 412 Bypass.

Personally, I think Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JB Hunt should pay for it since it's their airport.

It's bizarre they wanted to build the connecting road as a toll road. Was that modeled after some other airport and their transportation network?  I understand using tolls to get a road built, but it never made sense to me with this.

And good for Philip Taldo who wants a western corridor of some sorts.

I think I read something about AR 112 being upgraded to a 5 lane road, aka another "Arkansas Expressway", complete with no access management? Just throw the pavement down. I really hope ArDOT is making ways with things like this and that ridiculous roadway lighting policy they have. Stop being lazy, and make that a decent highway!

I don't live there anymore, but Northwest Arkansas is such an interesting area when it comes to growth and their transportation/infrastructure network. A true mesh of multiple jurisdictions that have no coordination whatsoever.



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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2018, 05:55:02 AM »

The airport can build it themselves. Cheap bastards sticking their hands out in the name of corporate welfare. And the state will probably bend over and build it and the airport won't have to spend a dime on it. This is a strong statement, but I think Arkansas' state government is more dysfunctional than Oklahoma's government. Look at medicinal marijuana. Arkansas passed it in 2016 and the state government has been lollygagging around and trying to delay the implementation of the system as long as possible. They aren't even accepting applications yet and who knows how long it will be until is is completely in place. Oklahoma passed it at the end of June and there are already dispensaries open. They don't have a lot of product at this time because all cannabis sold in Oklahoma must be grown in Oklahoma and most of the crops aren't ready for harvest yet. It's expensive now ($100/quarter, about twice the street price) but when more and more of it is harvested, prices will plummet. After SQ 788 was passed in a landslide victory, the state government tried to gut the law, weakening it to the point to where it would have been useless. They wanted a ban on sale of smokable cannabis flower, a pharmacist to be required for at least 40 hours a week in each dispensary, and a limit on THC content of 20%. The citizens of Oklahoma stood up and said "I don't think so" and filed some lawsuits and surprisingly, the state backed down. Now we have one of the best, most patient-friendly medicinal cannabis laws in the country. Arkansas dropped the ball but Oklahoma threw a 99 yard touchdown pass.
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formulanone

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2018, 09:21:46 AM »

The most-trafficked Airport 980 ever.

Little Rock had about 300,000 more emplanments last year than NW Arkansas (source), so it's probably the second-most in traffic, unless LIT has its own dedicated highway number.

Airfare to/from XNA is one of the most expensive per flight mile, so there's a pretty good argument for them to pay it. However, that would depend if the fare structure is set by the airline or the fare construction has higher "landing fees", which vary considerably by destination.

US71

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2018, 11:49:24 AM »

The most-trafficked Airport 980 ever.

Little Rock had about 300,000 more emplanments last year than NW Arkansas (source), so it's probably the second-most in traffic, unless LIT has its own dedicated highway number.

Airfare to/from XNA is one of the most expensive per flight mile, so there's a pretty good argument for them to pay it. However, that would depend if the fare structure is set by the airline or the fare construction has higher "landing fees", which vary considerably by destination.

Walmart hates paying for anything they can get someone else to pay for (you do know Wal-Mart & Tyson built the airport?)
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2018, 01:02:42 PM »

Walmart hates paying for anything they can get someone else to pay for (you do know Wal-Mart & Tyson built the airport?)

Or even just paying their employees. There's a reason so many of their employees rely on government assistance.
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US71

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2018, 10:07:12 AM »



I think I read something about AR 112 being upgraded to a 5 lane road, aka another "Arkansas Expressway", complete with no access management? Just throw the pavement down. I really hope ArDOT is making ways with things like this and that ridiculous roadway lighting policy they have. Stop being lazy, and make that a decent highway!


I think upgrading 112  was one of the early proposals for 49 (then US 71) north of Fayetteville. I've got some notes somewhere.
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Bobby5280

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2018, 04:06:04 PM »

Quote from: bugo
The airport can build it themselves. Cheap bastards sticking their hands out in the name of corporate welfare.

I guess they figure if NFL teams can get taxpayer-funded billion dollar plus football stadiums there's nothing wrong with getting taxpayers to fund a road only for corporate use.
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US71

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2018, 06:04:46 PM »

Quote from: bugo
The airport can build it themselves. Cheap bastards sticking their hands out in the name of corporate welfare.

I guess they figure if NFL teams can get taxpayer-funded billion dollar plus football stadiums there's nothing wrong with getting taxpayers to fund a road only for corporate use.

It worked for the "cargo airport" (aka XNA)
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Road Hog

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2018, 12:08:50 AM »

The most-trafficked Airport 980 ever.

Little Rock had about 300,000 more emplanments last year than NW Arkansas (source), so it's probably the second-most in traffic, unless LIT has its own dedicated highway number.

The Little Rock airport is served by pre-existing city streets.
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Wayward Memphian

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2018, 11:58:06 AM »

The most-trafficked Airport 980 ever.

Little Rock had about 300,000 more emplanments last year than NW Arkansas (source), so it's probably the second-most in traffic, unless LIT has its own dedicated highway number.

Airfare to/from XNA is one of the most expensive per flight mile, so there's a pretty good argument for them to pay it. However, that would depend if the fare structure is set by the airline or the fare construction has higher "landing fees", which vary considerably by destination.

If XNA had another low cost airline like Frontier and Spirit besides a handful of Allegiant flights, it woul nearly be on par with LIT. So many people bleed to TUL and even DWF, MCI and FSM to fly. Plus Frontier is back at BKG(Branson, just over the line)

How is it that LIT, TUL and BKG got Frontier last year and not XNA? That place needs new management.
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US71

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2018, 12:08:30 PM »

The most-trafficked Airport 980 ever.

Little Rock had about 300,000 more emplanments last year than NW Arkansas (source), so it's probably the second-most in traffic, unless LIT has its own dedicated highway number.

Airfare to/from XNA is one of the most expensive per flight mile, so there's a pretty good argument for them to pay it. However, that would depend if the fare structure is set by the airline or the fare construction has higher "landing fees", which vary considerably by destination.

If XNA had another low cost airline like Frontier and Spirit besides a handful of Allegiant flights, it woul nearly be on par with LIT. So many people bleed to TUL and even DWF, MCI and FSM to fly. Plus Frontier is back at BKG(Branson, just over the line)

How is it that LIT, TUL and BKG got Frontier last year and not XNA? That place needs new management.

XNA is expensive for airlines to fly into. Several airlines, including Southwest have been approached but there doesn't seem to a lot of interest. Of course, if you're mostly doing business Sunday-Thursday it might be hard to survive the rest of the time.
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cjk374

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2018, 03:06:46 PM »

If XNA was freight only, I would say screw them & feed them fish heads. But if they actually serve the traveling public, then why not have ARDOT build another section of AR 980?
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MikieTimT

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2018, 04:46:42 PM »

If XNA was freight only, I would say screw them & feed them fish heads. But if they actually serve the traveling public, then why not have ARDOT build another section of AR 980?

I'd say that the majority of the air traffic is passenger, even if freight was one of the originating goals of the airport.  I can't think that it would take much more than 4 miles of AR 980 to knock it out, either.  Now, if they want to be much more than a 2 lane connector with no frills (like lighting), then the airport would likely need to bring something to the table as well.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 04:53:01 PM by MikieTimT »
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US71

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2018, 06:48:16 PM »

If XNA was freight only, I would say screw them & feed them fish heads. But if they actually serve the traveling public, then why not have ARDOT build another section of AR 980?

XNA was supposed to be a cargo airport for Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JB Hunt but nobody was interested. Then one day it was "did we mention passengers" and suddenly everyone was for it and Alice got to sell the bonds to finance it.

The south access road has been in the planning stages for years and was originally going to be a privately-owned toll road. If ARDOT does build it, it probably won't be private or tolled. Given the remoteness of XNA, there is no direct route, just a hodgepodge of state and county roads.
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formulanone

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2018, 08:47:45 PM »

If XNA was freight only, I would say screw them & feed them fish heads. But if they actually serve the traveling public, then why not have ARDOT build another section of AR 980?

XNA was supposed to be a cargo airport for Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JB Hunt but nobody was interested. Then one day it was "did we mention passengers" and suddenly everyone was for it and Alice got to sell the bonds to finance it.

The south access road has been in the planning stages for years and was originally going to be a privately-owned toll road. If ARDOT does build it, it probably won't be private or tolled. Given the remoteness of XNA, there is no direct route, just a hodgepodge of state and county roads.

And that's what I don't get...there's not a ton of traffic on it because it's mostly commuter jets feeding the airport, so what's the big rush to upgrade it?

If it's sorely needed in the future, bypass a bend or two on either AR 12 or AR 264 and be done with it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 08:50:28 PM by formulanone »
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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2018, 09:30:11 PM »

XNA is an oddity because people assume its Walmart business partners flying in and out. But Walmart required their supplier reps to co-locate by the HQ back in 2014. I know, the Herseys rep used to fly back and forth out of XNA until the mandate came through. He wasn't happy.

I have flown Allegiant in and out of XNA a few times. Original issues were that Allegiant put the absolute oldest MD-80's on that route. So the interiors of the planes looked like a collection of parts from other planes.

Honestly if I was projecting NW Arkansas "modernness" I wouldn't have them fly into XNA based on the ridiculous country pike you have to make to get in and out. Its a joke.

Is it true that NCAA teams still fly charters to Drake Field to reach UofA?  Scary.

One perk of XNA that not many know about is that the rental car companies waive drop off fees if you fly in/out of Springfield Branson and drop off your rental at either.

So this means I can treat XNA as an extension of Springfield Branson and vice versa at no extra cost.  Makes for flexible scheduling.

If they had built a toll road to reach XNA, I would have simply bundled it with some form of discounted parking to increase its value. Or waive the toll if the car comes back through in less than an hour.
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rte66man

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2018, 10:22:33 AM »

XNA is an oddity because people assume its Walmart business partners flying in and out. But Walmart required their supplier reps to co-locate by the HQ back in 2014. I know, the Herseys rep used to fly back and forth out of XNA until the mandate came through. He wasn't happy.

I have flown Allegiant in and out of XNA a few times. Original issues were that Allegiant put the absolute oldest MD-80's on that route. So the interiors of the planes looked like a collection of parts from other planes.

Honestly if I was projecting NW Arkansas "modernness" I wouldn't have them fly into XNA based on the ridiculous country pike you have to make to get in and out. Its a joke.

Is it true that NCAA teams still fly charters to Drake Field to reach UofA?  Scary.

One perk of XNA that not many know about is that the rental car companies waive drop off fees if you fly in/out of Springfield Branson and drop off your rental at either.

So this means I can treat XNA as an extension of Springfield Branson and vice versa at no extra cost.  Makes for flexible scheduling.

If they had built a toll road to reach XNA, I would have simply bundled it with some form of discounted parking to increase its value. Or waive the toll if the car comes back through in less than an hour.

That would require planning and coordination of two or more entities (ARDOT and whoever runs the parking at XNA).  Would they even be willing to look into it?
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US71

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2018, 11:02:17 AM »

XNA is an oddity because people assume its Walmart business partners flying in and out. But Walmart required their supplier reps to co-locate by the HQ back in 2014. I know, the Herseys rep used to fly back and forth out of XNA until the mandate came through. He wasn't happy.

I have flown Allegiant in and out of XNA a few times. Original issues were that Allegiant put the absolute oldest MD-80's on that route. So the interiors of the planes looked like a collection of parts from other planes.

Honestly if I was projecting NW Arkansas "modernness" I wouldn't have them fly into XNA based on the ridiculous country pike you have to make to get in and out. Its a joke.

Is it true that NCAA teams still fly charters to Drake Field to reach UofA?  Scary.

One perk of XNA that not many know about is that the rental car companies waive drop off fees if you fly in/out of Springfield Branson and drop off your rental at either.

So this means I can treat XNA as an extension of Springfield Branson and vice versa at no extra cost.  Makes for flexible scheduling.

If they had built a toll road to reach XNA, I would have simply bundled it with some form of discounted parking to increase its value. Or waive the toll if the car comes back through in less than an hour.

Company reps, yes. Sales people, not so much.  Any given week you have sales people calling offering all sorts of items for Walmart approval such as plants, frozen pizzas, summer sausages, tools, etc. A lot of that stuff is flown in ahead of the salesman, then "donated" to hotel employees after the sales pitch has been made. Monday and Tuesday mornings are usually quite busy for incoming packages.  I used to give a lot of the plants to my dad who knew how to grow things. Foodstuffs, I generally kept for myself unless I owed a favor to a friend, in which case I'd leave a sausage on their doorstep :)
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Wayward Memphian

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2018, 11:32:46 AM »

Does anyone think Drake Field wouldn't have been basically rebuilt if XNA wasn't? Anyone think Drake could handle over 700,000 enplanements per year?
As a citizen of Fayetteville, I would have selfishly wanted to see Drake stay as the primary airport but come on. While it might had been a stoke of good, rhe popularion boom, makes hindsight look visionary. It needed to. E built in the sticks like it is for growth, anyone moving. Loae to it and then complaining about the noise can STFU. I can only imagine how Fayetteville residents would be howling about it by now. The access road needs built, but so does alot of stuff, like the whole 412 bypass and connecting Huntsville to Alpena with a 4 lane divided.
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US71

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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2018, 12:01:41 PM »

Does anyone think Drake Field wouldn't have been basically rebuilt if XNA wasn't? Anyone think Drake could handle over 700,000 enplanements per year?
As a citizen of Fayetteville, I would have selfishly wanted to see Drake stay as the primary airport but come on. While it might had been a stoke of good, rhe popularion boom, makes hindsight look visionary. It needed to. E built in the sticks like it is for growth, anyone moving. Loae to it and then complaining about the noise can STFU. I can only imagine how Fayetteville residents would be howling about it by now. The access road needs built, but so does alot of stuff, like the whole 412 bypass and connecting Huntsville to Alpena with a 4 lane divided.

We were always told the surrounding mountains made it hard for major airlines to come to FYV. We only had Central (aka Frontier) and Scheduled Scareways Skyways (a glorified puddle jumper). Fort Smith had regular airline service, also from Frontier. It all became a moot point when XNA was built and Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JB Hunt told the major airlines "use our airport or lose our business".
"Quack Field" is basically an executive airport now and also houses the Arkansas Air Museum. Fort Smith is primarily the Air National Guard now, though American and Delta (which bought Skyways) still supposedly fly here, though I've never seen them.

XNA has been a boon for Bentonville Hotels and restaurants, and the implosion from overbuilding I predicted 10 years ago seems to have finally settled down.
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Re: XNA Wants State Built Access
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2018, 04:36:42 PM »

Does anyone think Drake Field wouldn't have been basically rebuilt if XNA wasn't? Anyone think Drake could handle over 700,000 enplanements per year?
As a citizen of Fayetteville, I would have selfishly wanted to see Drake stay as the primary airport but come on. While it might had been a stoke of good, rhe popularion boom, makes hindsight look visionary. It needed to. E built in the sticks like it is for growth, anyone moving. Loae to it and then complaining about the noise can STFU. I can only imagine how Fayetteville residents would be howling about it by now. The access road needs built, but so does alot of stuff, like the whole 412 bypass and connecting Huntsville to Alpena with a 4 lane divided.

We were always told the surrounding mountains made it hard for major airlines to come to FYV. We only had Central (aka Frontier) and Scheduled Scareways Skyways (a glorified puddle jumper). Fort Smith had regular airline service, also from Frontier. It all became a moot point when XNA was built and Wal-Mart, Tyson, and JB Hunt told the major airlines "use our airport or lose our business".
"Quack Field" is basically an executive airport now and also houses the Arkansas Air Museum. Fort Smith is primarily the Air National Guard now, though American and Delta (which bought Skyways) still supposedly fly here, though I've never seen them.

XNA has been a boon for Bentonville Hotels and restaurants, and the implosion from overbuilding I predicted 10 years ago seems to have finally settled down.

Drake Field's runway could not be extended because of 71B on the north end and the West Fork of the White River on the south end, but there are also mountains near both ends as well, so it has no room for growth.  Larger jets require longer runways, and the terminal building is also nothing compared to what XNA has.  XNA has an 8800' runway (with another under construction) and Drake Field's is only 6000'.  Much of the growth of NWA has been to the north of Fayetteville, so it made sense to have a regional airport more centrally located to serve the other cities as well.  A better access road makes sense before the area's growth makes it prohibitively expensive to do so.  It's actually forward thinking for a change instead of almost too late reactivity.  It wouldn't be more than 3.5 to 4 miles long, and other than crossing Spring Creek and Little Osage Creek, not really any substantial costs as it's pretty flat and sparsely populated.
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