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Author Topic: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes  (Read 1303 times)

cabiness42

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2018, 08:45:35 PM »

The problem is places like that are naming simple roads as "County Road 3200." Places I'm familiar with, such as in Iowa or Minnesota, conform to a similar system, but instead give it a name and call it something like "320th St NE." Thus, there never exists any potential confusion between "County Roads" and "County Routes." For example, in Minnesota, it might be named 320th Street on the street blades, but it's also signed with blue county route markers as, for example, county road 4.

There really isn't any confusion in Indiana because the state has historically had only County Roads and no County Routes.  Since INDOT decided to decommission a bunch of state highways, a few counties have declared some of them to be County Routes, but those are pretty isolated. 

I guess I'm not arrogant enough to expect other states to use conventions that I'm used to.  If I'm traveling to another state and am going to be on county roads, I take the time to learn their system.
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sandwalk

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2018, 10:51:14 AM »

As a native Ohioan, this is not at all something I am familiar with.  In Ohio (at least where I'm from), numbered county roads (and township roads for that matter) have a name (i.e. Mason Road, Berlin Road, etc.).  It's up to the local counties to determine what the county-maintained roads versus township-maintained roads are and if they want to sign their numbers.  Most are just signed by their name rather than their number and most people don't know the roads actually do have a number.
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froggie

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2018, 03:16:20 PM »

I believe part of the situation is because, unlike other states in the former Northwest Territories, local roads in Indiana belong to the county and not the local townships.  It's a very different situation from Minnesota, Iowa, or Wisconsin where the township owns most local roads and then there are a few select roadways that fall under county maintenance.

In Minnesota, at least, with the exception of Ramsey County, "County Road" and "County Route" are synonymous.  True, some counties and local jurisdictions use the county route as the streetname (Goodhue County does this), but as a general rule the streetname is something different with the county route marked separately, such as the generalized example MNHighwayMan gave above.
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cabiness42

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2018, 10:37:20 AM »

I believe part of the situation is because, unlike other states in the former Northwest Territories, local roads in Indiana belong to the county and not the local townships.  It's a very different situation from Minnesota, Iowa, or Wisconsin where the township owns most local roads and then there are a few select roadways that fall under county maintenance.

In Minnesota, at least, with the exception of Ramsey County, "County Road" and "County Route" are synonymous.  True, some counties and local jurisdictions use the county route as the streetname (Goodhue County does this), but as a general rule the streetname is something different with the county route marked separately, such as the generalized example MNHighwayMan gave above.

Now I understand why other states are in such a financial mess.  Having another level of government (townships) doing all the same things that are already done by the state, counties and cities seems like a waste of money.  I'm glad Indiana's townships are very limited in scope because it's really a totally unnecessary layer of government.
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froggie

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2018, 05:34:56 PM »

That's not entirely accurate.  For starters, townships are almost entirely separate from cities...there is no overlap there.  Second, there are functions done at the county level that are not done at the city/town/township level and vice versa.  For example, up here in New England (where our towns are roughly equivalent to Midwestern townships), counties only really exist to handle court and some planning functions...otherwise, everything not done at the state level is handled by the town.
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cabiness42

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2019, 08:50:55 AM »

That's not entirely accurate.  For starters, townships are almost entirely separate from cities...there is no overlap there.  Second, there are functions done at the county level that are not done at the city/town/township level and vice versa.  For example, up here in New England (where our towns are roughly equivalent to Midwestern townships), counties only really exist to handle court and some planning functions...otherwise, everything not done at the state level is handled by the town.


It doesn't need to be that way though.  Functions could be adequately handled by counties and cities/towns/villages.  Why do counties need subunits?  It's a unnecessary level of government which just wastes money. 
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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2019, 08:55:07 AM »

That's not entirely accurate.  For starters, townships are almost entirely separate from cities...there is no overlap there.  Second, there are functions done at the county level that are not done at the city/town/township level and vice versa.  For example, up here in New England (where our towns are roughly equivalent to Midwestern townships), counties only really exist to handle court and some planning functions...otherwise, everything not done at the state level is handled by the town.


It doesn't need to be that way though.  Functions could be adequately handled by counties and cities/towns/villages.  Why do counties need subunits?  It's a unnecessary level of government which just wastes money.

The cities don't have any subunits (neighborhoods don't have any government function), and the towns and townships fill the spaces where the cities aren't, with the exception being a single overlap in Connecticut. There's no extra subunit level.

New York has an extra level; towns and villages overlap (but not cities).
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 09:00:50 AM by 1 »
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thefro

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2019, 10:14:54 AM »

The problem is places like that are naming simple roads as "County Road 3200." Places I'm familiar with, such as in Iowa or Minnesota, conform to a similar system, but instead give it a name and call it something like "320th St NE." Thus, there never exists any potential confusion between "County Roads" and "County Routes." For example, in Minnesota, it might be named 320th Street on the street blades, but it's also signed with blue county route markers as, for example, county road 4.

There really isn't any confusion in Indiana because the state has historically had only County Roads and no County Routes.  Since INDOT decided to decommission a bunch of state highways, a few counties have declared some of them to be County Routes, but those are pretty isolated. 

I guess I'm not arrogant enough to expect other states to use conventions that I'm used to.  If I'm traveling to another state and am going to be on county roads, I take the time to learn their system.

On top of that not every county uses the same naming system in Indiana.   Some have named county roads ("Helmberg Rd"), some use "County Road 500 W", some have a mix of both.

Many roads in my county weren't named until the 911 system was implemented (an address was just John Doe, Rural Route 5 Post Office Town/ZIP) so they were named then.  Since the roads here are roughly in a grid system you can tell where you are in the county and how many miles north/east/west/south of the center by the mailbox numbers and the name of the road
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SSR_317

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Re: Indiana County Roads versus County Routes
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2019, 02:15:47 PM »


On top of that not every county uses the same naming system in Indiana.   Some have named county roads ("Helmberg Rd"), some use "County Road 500 W", some have a mix of both.

Many roads in my county weren't named until the 911 system was implemented (an address was just John Doe, Rural Route 5 Post Office Town/ZIP) so they were named then.  Since the roads here are roughly in a grid system you can tell where you are in the county and how many miles north/east/west/south of the center by the mailbox numbers and the name of the road
Also, as I pointed out at the beginning of this thread, there are two distinct systems for numbered County Roads in use across the state (Hundreds-based and Consecutive). You also make a very good point about 911 impacting the naming and numbering of streets and roads, in fact, that's part of the reason the "dogleg" of I-465 in Boone County was eliminated and changed to I-865 and why County Line Road East was renamed Carroll Road by Marion County at the Hancock county line.
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