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Author Topic: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?  (Read 16513 times)

formulanone

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #125 on: January 28, 2019, 09:44:05 AM »

Why the hell does Georgia have so many redundant state routes? (US 1/SR 4, US 27/SR 1 come to mind)

Many predate the US Routes, and are kept for historical purposes. Some do not run the length of the same US Route (GA 2, GA 11, GA 26 for example) but others such as the GA 1 and 4 you mentioned, are essentially unnecessary.

Still, your point is valid, as they were laid out 100 years ago and I have my doubts anyone other than a handful of folks here would follow one "hidden" number end-to-end.

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #126 on: January 28, 2019, 09:49:46 AM »

With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
  • Usage of a custom, wider than normal US shield on BGSes with a black outline
And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


  • Their bubble medians go right up to where the turn lane ends almost all the time, they normally don't close up to form just one pair of double yellow lines
  • Their frequent use of double/supplemental reds on traffic signals
  • The use of larger-than-normal interstate shields on BGSes
  • I'm not sure of the term for this, but they really like doing offset turn lanes? Apparently this is a form of channelization. Like, on divided higwhays, they'll have the turn lane go right to the edge of the oncoming lanes.
South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 04:56:20 PM by index »
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jakeroot

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #127 on: January 28, 2019, 02:37:50 PM »

I'm not trying to knock roundabouts in general. I generally like them for their safety record (and I'm not as annoyed by them as most drivers!) and their efficiency in carrying traffic. There's just been way too many roundabouts built in recent years. You don't need roundabouts on top of roundabouts for every intersection on every highway. That just gets annoying for drivers.

In urban areas where there's two or more in a row, I can understand them being annoying if you get motion sick (otherwise I don't get what the big deal is). But, since roundabouts are designed to allow a sort of continuous flow, they do not mix with signals. Signals are designed for "stop or go" flow. Which works really well in a timed corridor, but not so much when next to a signal, which will inevitably create a backup that will gridlock the roundabout.

Roundabouts do work well with RIRO and RCUT intersections (to help with U-turn movements), but those aren't always good ideas when the road that gets limited has lots of through movements.

tl;dr -- roundabouts work better when accompanied by other roundabouts.
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RobbieL2415

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #128 on: January 28, 2019, 10:08:52 PM »

Another ConnDOT quirk:  a lack of signage standards for school zones.  It seems as though every municipality signs them differently.  At least MassDOT uses those weird light-up flashing yellow ball signs.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #129 on: January 29, 2019, 05:33:26 AM »

At least MassDOT uses those weird light-up flashing yellow ball signs.

Pretty much all I've seen out west, from about 2005. Timed and/or "when present" are worthless and usually ignored, in my experience. Flashing beacons based on time-of-day are the best solution.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #130 on: January 29, 2019, 09:04:39 AM »

Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage: ....


Your comment prompts me to think of another Maryland-ism: the use of rhyming signs. Don't have time to go through Street View finding examples just now, but I've seen signs in advance of the service areas (Maryland House and Chesapeake House) that said "Stay Awake Take a Break," construction signs that said "We're improving to keep you moving," and (years ago) an obnoxious series of four signs that said, in order, "Stay Alert," "Stay Alive," "Don't Exceed," "Speed Limit 55" (that last being a standard speed limit sign).

Reminds me of when Maryland had Speed Limit 55 signs posted on the Beltway with yellow "STILL!" banners attached to them.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #131 on: January 29, 2019, 09:11:52 AM »

Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage: ....


Your comment prompts me to think of another Maryland-ism: the use of rhyming signs. Don't have time to go through Street View finding examples just now, but I've seen signs in advance of the service areas (Maryland House and Chesapeake House) that said "Stay Awake Take a Break," construction signs that said "We're improving to keep you moving," and (years ago) an obnoxious series of four signs that said, in order, "Stay Alert," "Stay Alive," "Don't Exceed," "Speed Limit 55" (that last being a standard speed limit sign).

Reminds me of when Maryland had Speed Limit 55 signs posted on the Beltway with yellow "STILL!" banners attached to them.
LOL states were trolling us back then.
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StogieGuy7

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #132 on: January 29, 2019, 12:39:02 PM »

Alright, for something different that I would say is pretty unique to MnDOT: sign post braces, and especially the 2 + 1 sign post setup. Two vertical posts, and one angled brace post.
Quote



Nevada uses sign post braces like that - though perhaps not as commonly as MnDOT.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 12:48:06 PM by StogieGuy7 »
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #133 on: January 29, 2019, 01:42:47 PM »

Something else I just thought of for Vermont:  placename signs where they include the next town or destination and the mileage to it on the bottom.  Here's an example.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #134 on: January 29, 2019, 02:55:17 PM »

  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only

Maine, New Hampshire, and New York have this habit as well. I've seen it done elsewhere, too.
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kphoger

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #135 on: January 29, 2019, 03:33:56 PM »


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only

Maine, New Hampshire, and New York have this habit as well. I've seen it done elsewhere, too.

It's a common thing in many states.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #136 on: January 29, 2019, 03:51:15 PM »

  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only

Maine, New Hampshire, and New York have this habit as well. I've seen it done elsewhere, too.
I can think of a few examples in Connecticut:

CT-194 WB west of CT-74, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8322288,-72.5556447,3a,75y,330h,87.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ8kYUzY5lpHF6ZSj7kHh1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

CT-74/CT-83 EB/NB east/north of CT-74, Vernon-Rockville: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8646955,-72.475099,3a,37.6y,96.25h,84.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4fwKGTC5y856WWwaWYPAaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

CT-85 NB north of CT-94, Hebron: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6935118,-72.437863,3a,75y,41.28h,76.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEMp08lREMN03_RGLwkse0g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Something else I just thought of for Vermont:  placename signs where they include the next town or destination and the mileage to it on the bottom.  Here's an example.

Pennsylvania has this for some historic keystone markers ("Danville - 11"): https://www.google.com/maps/@40.99199,-76.4497597,3a,15y,201.28h,81.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s57an0X2G4xs7uQNdRxV_pw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 03:55:14 PM by ipeters61 »
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #137 on: January 29, 2019, 05:02:53 PM »

Maryland:

I feel like Maryland uses a lot of custom signage: ....


Your comment prompts me to think of another Maryland-ism: the use of rhyming signs. Don't have time to go through Street View finding examples just now, but I've seen signs in advance of the service areas (Maryland House and Chesapeake House) that said "Stay Awake Take a Break," construction signs that said "We're improving to keep you moving," and (years ago) an obnoxious series of four signs that said, in order, "Stay Alert," "Stay Alive," "Don't Exceed," "Speed Limit 55" (that last being a standard speed limit sign).

Reminds me of when Maryland had Speed Limit 55 signs posted on the Beltway with yellow "STILL!" banners attached to them.

I remember those. They were especially dumb when the NMSL was still in effect because at that time the Beltway couldn’t legally be posted higher than 55.
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Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #138 on: January 29, 2019, 08:41:21 PM »

With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
  • Usage of a custom, wider than normal US shield on BGSes with a black outline
And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


  • Their bubble medians go right up to where the turn lane ends almost all the time, they normally don't close up to form just one pair of double yellow lines
  • Their frequent use of double/supplemental reds on traffic signals
  • The use of larger-than-normal interstate shields on BGSes
  • I'm not sure of the term for this, but they really like doing offset turn lanes? Like, on divided higwhays, they'll have the turn lane go right to the edge of the oncoming lanes.
South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.

I have lived in both NC and SC. the South surely takes the cake for quirks. NC does things pretty standard and “by the book”. SC on the other hand has many oddities that aren’t limited to signage. One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example. It is obvious what the designers anticipated the dominant traffic flow would be when that intersection was designed. Other good examples are US 78/SC 61, and US 17/SC 162.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 08:43:51 PM by fillup420 »
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kphoger

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #139 on: January 29, 2019, 08:44:56 PM »

SC on the other hand has many oddities that aren’t limited to signage. One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example.

It just looks like a rather normal three-way intersection, except that it's at a bit of a slant.  :hmmm:
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #140 on: January 30, 2019, 04:47:21 PM »

With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
  • Usage of a custom, wider than normal US shield on BGSes with a black outline
And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


  • Their bubble medians go right up to where the turn lane ends almost all the time, they normally don't close up to form just one pair of double yellow lines
  • Their frequent use of double/supplemental reds on traffic signals
  • The use of larger-than-normal interstate shields on BGSes
  • I'm not sure of the term for this, but they really like doing offset turn lanes? Like, on divided higwhays, they'll have the turn lane go right to the edge of the oncoming lanes.
South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.

I have lived in both NC and SC. the South surely takes the cake for quirks. NC does things pretty standard and “by the book”. SC on the other hand has many oddities that aren’t limited to signage. One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example. It is obvious what the designers anticipated the dominant traffic flow would be when that intersection was designed. Other good examples are US 78/SC 61, and US 17/SC 162.


That's actually rather neat, I hadn't paid much thought to that. They also seem to use divided intersections a bit more than other DOTs. Such as the US 701/BUS 701 split on the NC/SC line.


One quirk I can come up with for NC is that the DOT here really, really, really likes superstreets. It seems that every new divided highway's becoming one. Take US 601 in Union County as an example, or the proposed E John Street/Old Monroe Road upgrade. They also really like doing channelized intersections at T-intersections, however it's usually only the side street that gets channelized. A little island is usually added between the two lanes at the intersection, I think they call those dividing islands or something along the lines of that.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 04:55:21 PM by index »
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1995hoo

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #141 on: January 30, 2019, 07:01:55 PM »

Couple of things I've noted in North Carolina over the years:

(1) The odd wording of the various "state law" signs at the state lines that admonish people to "burn headlights" (referring to driving in the rain and riding a motorcycle in general). I've seen plenty of signs about using headlights in the rain, but only North Carolina posts signs saying to "burn headlights."

(2) I like this one: North Carolina words their signs as "Reduce Speed Ahead" instead of the grammatically-incorrect "Reduced Speed Ahead." The latter is incorrect because it's the speed limit that is reduced and you are telling the driver to reduce his speed. (These signs are starting to disappear in favor of the new and better signs that tell you what the reduced limit will be.) I've only seen "Reduce Speed Ahead" in one place outside North Carolina—the westbound Dulles Toll Road in Virginia as you approach the main toll plaza in Tysons. I always wondered why VDOT used the different wording in that one spot.

(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #142 on: January 30, 2019, 09:18:21 PM »

With South Carolina, (not my state, but it's on-topic regardless) it's certainly a quirky DOT for the East Coast, but it wouldn't be for a place like the Midwest... It's a lot more similar to a Midwestern DOT.


A few cases of this are:


  • Frequent posting of routes without directional banners, arrows only
  • Usage of a custom, wider than normal US shield on BGSes with a black outline
And then there's a few things that aren't necessarily "Midwestern".


  • Their bubble medians go right up to where the turn lane ends almost all the time, they normally don't close up to form just one pair of double yellow lines
  • Their frequent use of double/supplemental reds on traffic signals
  • The use of larger-than-normal interstate shields on BGSes
  • I'm not sure of the term for this, but they really like doing offset turn lanes? Apparently this is a form of channelization. Like, on divided higwhays, they'll have the turn lane go right to the edge of the oncoming lanes.
South Carolina probably has one of the most unique DOTs for the east and it certainly has some interesting qualities to it. Can't come up with much for North Carolina, can anyone else?



One unique thing NC >used< to do was their black-on-white directional signs at intersections with the chevron arrows, and the black-on-white signs for unincorporated communities. You can still find a few of those.


Also, isn't South Carolina one of the few states in the South that doesn't allow logo signs in urban areas? Seems like most Southern states allow logo signs in urban areas.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #143 on: January 30, 2019, 09:26:46 PM »

(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Michigan refers to their downtowns along freeways in the same fashion.

Here's a view of such a sign along I-75 near Detroit. https://goo.gl/maps/5NEwur9Fowj
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #144 on: January 30, 2019, 09:35:32 PM »

Quote
One main difference I have noticed in SC is the use of directional intersections. See the intersection of US 78/178 at 178’s eastern terminus for a good example. It is obvious what the designers anticipated the dominant traffic flow would be when that intersection was designed. Other good examples are US 78/SC 61, and US 17/SC 162.

These used to be literally everywhere in SC but they have reconfigured a lot of the ones where there is bigger traffic (or the road was multilaned) and were downright dangerous...they still use YIELD signs at the ending fork if it comes in from the right hand side of the intersecting road.

Quote
Also, isn't South Carolina one of the few states in the South that doesn't allow logo signs in urban areas? Seems like most Southern states allow logo signs in urban areas.

There are logo signs in urban SC cities...here is I-26 near its endpoint in Charleston - https://goo.gl/maps/J5i4uQQXEXy
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #145 on: January 30, 2019, 09:37:39 PM »

Another thing I only saw in South Carolina are overhead rectangular stop signs.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #146 on: January 30, 2019, 11:20:57 PM »

Another thing I only saw in South Carolina are overhead rectangular stop signs.


Oh yeah, they do that sometimes with dangerous intersections, I have a few of them saved on Google Maps. That rectangular stop sign is specified in the SC supplement to the MUTCD.


https://www.google.com/maps/@34.421574,-81.2976353,3a,75y,287.19h,90.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxzG9e26Dd56t01arKSmBew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9892519,-82.7571614,3a,75y,11.94h,96.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snQyLkk1qFwnQJXQ8maIzQA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656







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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #147 on: January 31, 2019, 12:04:04 AM »

I like this one: North Carolina words their signs as "Reduce Speed Ahead" instead of the grammatically-incorrect "Reduced Speed Ahead." The latter is incorrect because it's the speed limit that is reduced and you are telling the driver to reduce his speed. (These signs are starting to disappear in favor of the new and better signs that tell you what the reduced limit will be.) I've only seen "Reduce Speed Ahead" in one place outside North Carolina—the westbound Dulles Toll Road in Virginia as you approach the main toll plaza in Tysons. I always wondered why VDOT used the different wording in that one spot.

I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Michigan also uses "Downtown" in all caps.  The difference between the two states, AIUI, is that Michigan DOT uses the caps letter size, while NCDOT uses the "small caps" treatment (height of "Downtown" in all caps is equal to lowercase loop height of primary destination legend).

And speaking of Michigan, the divider bar underneath cardinal direction words (informal roadgeek term:  "underlining") is a feature unique to that state, so far as I know, that has now almost completely disappeared.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #148 on: January 31, 2019, 05:19:57 AM »

In South Dakota, if route doesn't hit the WY (for an even-numbered route) or ND (for an odd-numbered route) state lines, the mileage to those lines is added to the mileposts.

This is how you can have a 64-mile long highway have a 300 milepost: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7022672,-98.0180608,3a,15y,285.74h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJGApUKISBjWf5MX_ViP8sQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (from the west end of SD 38 in Mitchell)

as I understand it, arizona does (or at least did) the same thing. that's partially why I 17 has high exit numbers and milage even though it's relatively short. I 17 took over mileage of a replaced state highway in north central (?) arizona that did not start at a western or southern border.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #149 on: January 31, 2019, 07:22:41 AM »

I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

The mistake isn't grammatical. The mistake is calling the speed limit just "speed"; if nobody actually slows down, speed is not reduced ahead.
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