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Author Topic: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be  (Read 3225 times)

roadman65

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2019, 10:55:35 PM »

Skipping over Syracuse for Buffalo or Albany always amazed me for the NYS Thruway.

One thing I can say about Pennsylvania is they never skip over cities in between hence Hazleton over Wilkes-Barre from Harrisburg or Hazleton from Wilkes- Barre from over Harrisburg.  Do not know why Milford, though, is used for I-84 E Bound from Scranton over Middletown or Newburgh.  Even Port Jervis is a better place as Milford a one traffic light borough and has a small population  and is not a point of interest for motorists heading eastbound into New England.
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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2019, 10:49:34 PM »

The lack of consistency in control cities is always puzzling to me. Sometimes, they will place even a tiny town as one, while other times they will skip over fairly large cities.

For example, I'd do these for I-95 from south to north:

Miami
West Palm Beach
Daytona Beach
Jacksonville
Savannah
Florence
Fayetteville
Richmond
Washington
Baltimore
Wilmington
Philadelphia
Trenton
New York
New Haven
Providence
Boston
Portland
Augusta
Bangor
Houlton (or Presque Isle?)
Fredericton
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hobsini2

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2019, 11:15:59 AM »

I-20 east from Dallas is signed to Shreveport, Tyler or Longview could be signed there instead

Tyler as a secondary city makes sense. And speaking of Dallas-Ft Worth, I-30 West should be signed as Abilene instead of Weatherford. Weatherford is quite small.

But I-30 dead-ends into I-20 well before Abilene, but not too far from Weatherford
But I-30 traffic west of Ft Worth would be more likely to want to go toward Abilene or even Midland. Weatherford is too small for control city on a primary interstate IMO.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2019, 02:27:45 PM »

IDOT not using Marion, IL on either I-57 or I-24 is a bit inconsistent, or possibly even Marion-Carbondale (especially from Mt Vernon coming south)

Pretty much all the other Interstate Junction cities along I-57 (other than South Suburban Chicago @ I-80 and I-294; D1 is a little different on their Control City application anyway) get Secondary/Local Control status, in addition to Cairo

Heck, I-24 West (North) has a signed Control of Interstate 57 in IL (with a slight acknowledgement of the St Louis Control right before termination @ I-57)

Is it because Marion is mostly just north of the interchange, whereas Champaign, Effingham, and Mt Vernon are right at the Interchanges? Marion does have some land area around Lake of Egypt, which is very close to the 57/24 interchange

If Cairo (and East St Louis on 55, 64, and 70) warrant Secondary Control status, so should Marion IMHO
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PHLBOS

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2019, 05:40:21 PM »

The lack of consistency in control cities is always puzzling to me. Sometimes, they will place even a tiny town as one, while other times they will skip over fairly large cities.

For example, I'd do these for I-95 from south to north:

Miami
West Palm Beach
Daytona Beach
Jacksonville
Savannah
Florence
Fayetteville
Richmond
Washington
Baltimore
Wilmington
Philadelphia
Trenton
New York
New Haven
Providence
Boston
Portland
Augusta
Bangor
Houlton (or Presque Isle?)
Fredericton Woodstock
I-95 goes through Houlton and continues as NB 95 into New Brunswick.
I would use Woodstock, since NB 95 ends there at TC 2; which heads towards either Fredericton or Edmundston depending on which direction one goes along TC 2.  Not sure what percentage of traffic along NB 95 is heading towards Fredericton vs. the percentage heading towards Edmundston. 

Is there a reason why you skipped over Portsmouth, NH?
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thspfc

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2019, 06:07:31 PM »

Here's my I-95 (keep in mind I've never been to the east coast north of Florida)

Miami
WPB
Jacksonville - I don't think Daytona is big enough for I-95
Savannah
Florence
Fayetteville
Richmond (with DC secondary along this part)
DC
Baltimore
Philadelphia (NYC secondary)
NYC - no way I would use Trenton, pop. 90k, over NYC, pop. 8.6M
Connecticut - since, per my inference, most long-distance traffic on 95 north out of the city isn't going specifically to any destination, it's a wide spread. Similar to how "Wisconsin" and "Indiana" are signed in Chicago.
Once in CT, Bridgeport - larger than New Haven
New Haven
Providence
Boston
Portland - much bigger than Portsmouth NH
Augusta
Bangor
Canada - again, most traffic north of Bangor is going to miscellaneous destinations, so I would use the next (country) over.

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wriddle082

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2019, 06:42:52 PM »

Here's my I-95 (keep in mind I've never been to the east coast north of Florida)

Miami
WPB
Jacksonville - I don't think Daytona is big enough for I-95
Savannah
Florence
Fayetteville
Richmond (with DC secondary along this part)
DC
Baltimore
Philadelphia (NYC secondary)
NYC - no way I would use Trenton, pop. 90k, over NYC, pop. 8.6M
Connecticut - since, per my inference, most long-distance traffic on 95 north out of the city isn't going specifically to any destination, it's a wide spread. Similar to how "Wisconsin" and "Indiana" are signed in Chicago.
Once in CT, Bridgeport - larger than New Haven
New Haven
Providence
Boston
Portland - much bigger than Portsmouth NH
Augusta
Bangor
Canada - again, most traffic north of Bangor is going to miscellaneous destinations, so I would use the next (country) over.



* Daytona may not have a large population relative to other FL cities, but it is a destination for many.  And a major interstate junction.
* Rocky Mount should be included b/w Fayetteville and Richmond as it is now, since it will also one day have a major interstate junction once US 64 is successfully converted to I-87.  But Benson should continue to be left out.  Also consider listing mileage to Raleigh starting north of Fayetteville.
* Wilmington should be the primary control north of Baltimore, with Philly and NYC as secondary until past that point.
* New London, CT should be included b/w New Haven and Providence.
* Instead of just Canada once past Bangor, it should be Houlton.  Bangor is too far away from any one particular crossing, so I-95 should be signed for the one it specifically goes directly to.

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Ben114

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2019, 04:35:41 PM »

Since everyone has different ideas for I-95, I'll put one in (for north of New York). State abbreviations included for out of state destination usage

New York (NY)
New Haven (CT)
New London (CT)
Providence (RI)
Boston (MA)
Portsmouth (NH) (+ Nashua NH as secondary)
Portland (ME)
Bangor
Houlton
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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2019, 05:02:17 PM »

Nashua is out of the way.
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Ben114

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2019, 05:49:00 PM »

Nashua is out of the way.
through US 3
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Flint1979

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2019, 06:34:55 PM »

Since everyone has different ideas for I-95, I'll put one in (for north of New York). State abbreviations included for out of state destination usage

New York (NY)
New Haven (CT)
New London (CT)
Providence (RI)
Boston (MA)
Portsmouth (NH) (+ Nashua NH as secondary)
Portland (ME)
Bangor
Houlton
Portsmouth, NH would probably be fine but Nashua isn't on I-95.
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Flint1979

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2019, 06:39:32 PM »

The lack of consistency in control cities is always puzzling to me. Sometimes, they will place even a tiny town as one, while other times they will skip over fairly large cities.

For example, I'd do these for I-95 from south to north:

Miami
West Palm Beach
Daytona Beach
Jacksonville
Savannah
Florence
Fayetteville
Richmond
Washington
Baltimore
Wilmington
Philadelphia
Trenton
New York
New Haven
Providence
Boston
Portland
Augusta
Bangor
Houlton (or Presque Isle?)
Fredericton Woodstock
I-95 goes through Houlton and continues as NB 95 into New Brunswick.
I would use Woodstock, since NB 95 ends there at TC 2; which heads towards either Fredericton or Edmundston depending on which direction one goes along TC 2.  Not sure what percentage of traffic along NB 95 is heading towards Fredericton vs. the percentage heading towards Edmundston. 

Is there a reason why you skipped over Portsmouth, NH?
I think I would have skipped Portsmouth too. It's only a city of about 20,000 and I-95 is in New Hampshire for a short time with Portland being the largest city in Maine. I do realize though that Portsmouth is a historic seaport and popular summer destination though. But I-95 is only in the state for 16 miles.
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WNYroadgeek

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2019, 12:20:24 AM »

Rochester and Syracuse on the Thruway

Rochester actually is signed as a control city on the Thruway, albeit very minimally: https://goo.gl/maps/H6f57Vubyyy7ae4V8
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Scott5114

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2019, 03:02:43 AM »

-I-44 westbound from St. Louis should be Springfield, MO

My guess as for why it's Tulsa is to eliminate confusion between Springfield MO and Springfield IL. Springfield is used as a control city once you get west of Rolla or east of Joplin.

Likewise, Springfield IL is skipped in favor of Chicago, and Springfield IL is a state capital, even.
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thspfc

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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2019, 05:02:50 PM »

-I-44 westbound from St. Louis should be Springfield, MO

My guess as for why it's Tulsa is to eliminate confusion between Springfield MO and Springfield IL. Springfield is used as a control city once you get west of Rolla or east of Joplin.

Likewise, Springfield IL is skipped in favor of Chicago, and Springfield IL is a state capital, even.
More likely, Chicago is used over Springfield IL because Chicago is 45 times bigger in terms of metro population.
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Re: Mid-Sized Cities That Aren't Control Cities, But Maybe Should Be
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2019, 03:34:39 PM »

Proceeding east of I-5 in Springfield (SR 126), Albany (US 20) and Salem (SR 22), the control city mentioned on any I-5 signage relating to those highways should be Bend, which is about 100K for population.  ODOT does not do well with designating control cities for highways/freeways coming off of I-5.  Little or no mention is made of Astoria, Seaside, Tillamook, Lincoln City, Newport, Coos Bay/North Bend, Coquille, Bandon or any place in Curry County. 

This combines with not doing well for signing major out of state cities to make one feel like they are in a bubble when driving in Oregon.  WA, CA, ID and NV all let you know more about the Really Important Farther Off Places than Oregon does.

Rick
They need to say it for each city on the coast for each route. That being said I have seen signs for Bend on OR 22, or was it central Oregon? I can't remember.

On I-5 in Eugene, Portland is the control city and IMO it should be Salem/Portland duplexes on major signs and Salem on non-major signs because it's closer, people commute to Eugene from there, and Salem is a control city for I-5 South.

And for the Seattle area, Olympia should be the control city, not Tacoma from Downtown Seattle.


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