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Author Topic: Maryland  (Read 46261 times)

PHLBOS

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1925 on: September 03, 2020, 09:51:24 PM »

I don't like using Trenton either.  My earlier comment recommends signing Newark as the SB control within the Bronx.  From the Bronx, Newark should be the prime control and Paterson as the second control.  This should be the case until 80/95 split.  At that point, Newark/Philadelphia would be Ok.
I just quickly scanned GSV along I-95 southbound along the CBE and found that the only listed control city, along with the GW Bridge listing, on those signs is Newark.  Whereabouts (and I know such is way OT w/respect to this thread region) are these signs along I-95 in NY that list Trenton?
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Steve D

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1926 on: September 04, 2020, 09:07:03 AM »

I don't like using Trenton either.  My earlier comment recommends signing Newark as the SB control within the Bronx.  From the Bronx, Newark should be the prime control and Paterson as the second control.  This should be the case until 80/95 split.  At that point, Newark/Philadelphia would be Ok.
I just quickly scanned GSV along I-95 southbound along the CBE and found that the only listed control city, along with the GW Bridge listing, on those signs is Newark.  Whereabouts (and I know such is way OT w/respect to this thread region) are these signs along I-95 in NY that list Trenton?

On the I-87 ramps that lead to I-95/CBE/GWB.  They don't appear in the latest GSV due to construction but are in some previous views from a couple of years ago.

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jmacswimmer

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1927 on: September 04, 2020, 09:33:25 AM »

I don't like using Trenton either.  My earlier comment recommends signing Newark as the SB control within the Bronx.  From the Bronx, Newark should be the prime control and Paterson as the second control.  This should be the case until 80/95 split.  At that point, Newark/Philadelphia would be Ok.
I just quickly scanned GSV along I-95 southbound along the CBE and found that the only listed control city, along with the GW Bridge listing, on those signs is Newark.  Whereabouts (and I know such is way OT w/respect to this thread region) are these signs along I-95 in NY that list Trenton?

On the I-87 ramps that lead to I-95/CBE/GWB.  They don't appear in the latest GSV due to construction but are in some previous views from a couple of years ago.

FWIW, it looks like Trenton is also used on NY 895/Sheridan Blvd.
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mrsman

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1928 on: September 04, 2020, 04:04:21 PM »

I don't like using Trenton either.  My earlier comment recommends signing Newark as the SB control within the Bronx.  From the Bronx, Newark should be the prime control and Paterson as the second control.  This should be the case until 80/95 split.  At that point, Newark/Philadelphia would be Ok.
I just quickly scanned GSV along I-95 southbound along the CBE and found that the only listed control city, along with the GW Bridge listing, on those signs is Newark.  Whereabouts (and I know such is way OT w/respect to this thread region) are these signs along I-95 in NY that list Trenton?

On the I-87 ramps that lead to I-95/CBE/GWB.  They don't appear in the latest GSV due to construction but are in some previous views from a couple of years ago.

FWIW, it looks like Trenton is also used on NY 895/Sheridan Blvd.

Right.  The problem is the lack of consistency.  Any sign with room for a control city on I-95 SB in Manhattan or Bronx should put Newark, NJ as the control instead of Trenton.  If Newark is already there (as does exist on some signs in the East Bronx) then great.

The real problem is what happens as you cross the bridge.  That whole stretch from the GWB to 95/80 has few controls and the controls that are listed are the controls for 80 (Hackensack and Paterson).  Newark should be the primary control here and Hackensack should only be used on local lanes that push traffic to 80.  If there is room for two controls use both Newark and Paterson until the 95/80 split.

Then and only then can one begin to think about signing Philadelphia.  (which I agree should be on as many signs as possible from the 95/80 split to Exit 6).  At the 95/80 split there is enough room to replace the control as "Newark/Phila."

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8682709,-74.0037807,3a,75y,212.88h,92.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFRL0gCMhtByXI6f6Kzbocw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 04:07:08 PM by mrsman »
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bluecountry

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1929 on: September 08, 2020, 12:14:27 PM »

I don't like using Trenton either.  My earlier comment recommends signing Newark as the SB control within the Bronx.  From the Bronx, Newark should be the prime control and Paterson as the second control.  This should be the case until 80/95 split.  At that point, Newark/Philadelphia would be Ok.
I just quickly scanned GSV along I-95 southbound along the CBE and found that the only listed control city, along with the GW Bridge listing, on those signs is Newark.  Whereabouts (and I know such is way OT w/respect to this thread region) are these signs along I-95 in NY that list Trenton?



On the I-87 ramps that lead to I-95/CBE/GWB.  They don't appear in the latest GSV due to construction but are in some previous views from a couple of years ago.

FWIW, it looks like Trenton is also used on NY 895/Sheridan Blvd.

Right.  The problem is the lack of consistency.  Any sign with room for a control city on I-95 SB in Manhattan or Bronx should put Newark, NJ as the control instead of Trenton.  If Newark is already there (as does exist on some signs in the East Bronx) then great.

The real problem is what happens as you cross the bridge.  That whole stretch from the GWB to 95/80 has few controls and the controls that are listed are the controls for 80 (Hackensack and Paterson).  Newark should be the primary control here and Hackensack should only be used on local lanes that push traffic to 80.  If there is room for two controls use both Newark and Paterson until the 95/80 split.

Then and only then can one begin to think about signing Philadelphia.  (which I agree should be on as many signs as possible from the 95/80 split to Exit 6).  At the 95/80 split there is enough room to replace the control as "Newark/Phila."

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8682709,-74.0037807,3a,75y,212.88h,92.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFRL0gCMhtByXI6f6Kzbocw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
You know what?
Just do Philly on 95 from the GWB.
They already do Albany skipping over Yonkers and White Plains; and New Haven also skipping over Yonkers/Stamford/Norwalk/Bridgeport.
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famartin

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1930 on: September 08, 2020, 07:42:39 PM »

I don't like using Trenton either.  My earlier comment recommends signing Newark as the SB control within the Bronx.  From the Bronx, Newark should be the prime control and Paterson as the second control.  This should be the case until 80/95 split.  At that point, Newark/Philadelphia would be Ok.
I just quickly scanned GSV along I-95 southbound along the CBE and found that the only listed control city, along with the GW Bridge listing, on those signs is Newark.  Whereabouts (and I know such is way OT w/respect to this thread region) are these signs along I-95 in NY that list Trenton?



On the I-87 ramps that lead to I-95/CBE/GWB.  They don't appear in the latest GSV due to construction but are in some previous views from a couple of years ago.

FWIW, it looks like Trenton is also used on NY 895/Sheridan Blvd.

Right.  The problem is the lack of consistency.  Any sign with room for a control city on I-95 SB in Manhattan or Bronx should put Newark, NJ as the control instead of Trenton.  If Newark is already there (as does exist on some signs in the East Bronx) then great.

The real problem is what happens as you cross the bridge.  That whole stretch from the GWB to 95/80 has few controls and the controls that are listed are the controls for 80 (Hackensack and Paterson).  Newark should be the primary control here and Hackensack should only be used on local lanes that push traffic to 80.  If there is room for two controls use both Newark and Paterson until the 95/80 split.

Then and only then can one begin to think about signing Philadelphia.  (which I agree should be on as many signs as possible from the 95/80 split to Exit 6).  At the 95/80 split there is enough room to replace the control as "Newark/Phila."

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8682709,-74.0037807,3a,75y,212.88h,92.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFRL0gCMhtByXI6f6Kzbocw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
You know what?
Just do Philly on 95 from the GWB.
They already do Albany skipping over Yonkers and White Plains; and New Haven also skipping over Yonkers/Stamford/Norwalk/Bridgeport.

I mean, why wouldnít you? 95 NB is signed for NYC in Philly now... the reverse should be true. Newark is part of the NYC metro, it can be signed in addition to Philly (as NJDOT routinely signs another more local destination in concert with NYC on 80 EB).

MDOT SHA signs two cities on 95 pull thrus in Howard County... Washington/Richmond SB, Baltimore/New York NB. So plenty of precedent for multiples. Just need to use the right ones (Philly first before NYC, after Baltimore). Wilmington... eh, itís really part of Philly metro. It could be included north of Baltimore in addition to Philly.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 07:46:19 PM by famartin »
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1931 on: September 15, 2020, 10:18:42 PM »

WUSA-TV 9 (CBS): 36 truck crashes on Beltway's 'Big Curve' and crews can't figure out how to make it stop
Signs, citations, and warnings have failed to get truckers to slow down at the merge of the Beltway and the I-270 spur.


Most of the crashes have been on the Outer Loop of I-495 approaching the sharp left turn to merge with I-270Y (I-270 Spur) - Google Maps here.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 07:38:09 PM by cpzilliacus »
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1932 on: September 15, 2020, 10:36:45 PM »

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1933 on: September 15, 2020, 11:11:49 PM »

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS): 36 truck crashes on Beltway's 'Big Curve' and crews can't figure out how to make it stop
Signs, citations, and warnings have failed to get truckers to slow down at the merge of the Beltway and the I-270 spur.


Most of the crashes have been on the Outer Loop of I-495 approaching the sharp left turn to merge with I-270Y (I-270 Spur) - Google Maps here.

While I realize why it is the way it is, I honestly wish we could completely redesign the entire Montgomery County segment. Itís easily the most dangerous portion, and not just the big curve. All of it is far from ideal.
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1934 on: September 16, 2020, 08:40:24 AM »

I don't recall this being as big of an issue in the past.  What changed?
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jmacswimmer

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1935 on: September 16, 2020, 08:57:28 AM »

I don't recall this being as big of an issue in the past.  What changed?

I believe it's the drop in traffic volume caused by COVID (which meant that traffic speeds increased).

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS): 36 truck crashes on Beltway's 'Big Curve' and crews can't figure out how to make it stop
Signs, citations, and warnings have failed to get truckers to slow down at the merge of the Beltway and the I-270 spur.


Most of the crashes have been on the Outer Loop of I-495 approaching the sharp left turn to merge with I-270Y (I-270 Spur) - Google Maps here.

While I realize why it is the way it is, I honestly wish we could completely redesign the entire Montgomery County segment. Itís easily the most dangerous portion, and not just the big curve. All of it is far from ideal.

Couldn't agree more - I've posted about this elsewhere, but it's amazing how different the Montgomery and PG County segments of the beltway are from each other. Feels like 2 entirely different highways.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1936 on: September 16, 2020, 09:16:35 AM »

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS): 36 truck crashes on Beltway's 'Big Curve' and crews can't figure out how to make it stop
Signs, citations, and warnings have failed to get truckers to slow down at the merge of the Beltway and the I-270 spur.


Most of the crashes have been on the Outer Loop of I-495 approaching the sharp left turn to merge with I-270Y (I-270 Spur) - Google Maps here.

While I realize why it is the way it is, I honestly wish we could completely redesign the entire Montgomery County segment. Itís easily the most dangerous portion, and not just the big curve. All of it is far from ideal.

Highly unlikely to ever happen. 

I-495 between MD-97 (Exit 31, Georgia Avenue) and MD-355/I-270 (Exits 34 and 35) was mostly built on lands originally purchased as parkland under the federal Capper-Cramton Act and now owned by the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission (a state of Maryland agency, the bicounty park agency for Montgomery County and Prince George's County). This part of I-495 was planned and engineered before the USDOT Act was passed and signed into law, including in particular Section 4(f), which greatly restricts federal-aid transportation projects that use federal funding from being built on parkland.   

Note that while there was some parkland taken in vicinity of the junction of I-495 and I-270Y, it was not as much as it was with the section I mention above.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 09:23:42 AM by cpzilliacus »
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famartin

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1937 on: September 16, 2020, 09:32:35 AM »

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS): 36 truck crashes on Beltway's 'Big Curve' and crews can't figure out how to make it stop
Signs, citations, and warnings have failed to get truckers to slow down at the merge of the Beltway and the I-270 spur.


Most of the crashes have been on the Outer Loop of I-495 approaching the sharp left turn to merge with I-270Y (I-270 Spur) - Google Maps here.

While I realize why it is the way it is, I honestly wish we could completely redesign the entire Montgomery County segment. Itís easily the most dangerous portion, and not just the big curve. All of it is far from ideal.

Highly unlikely to ever happen. 

I-495 between MD-97 (Exit 31, Georgia Avenue) and MD-355/I-270 (Exits 34 and 35) was mostly built on lands originally purchased as parkland under the federal Capper-Cramton Act and now owned by the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission (a state of Maryland agency, the bicounty park agency for Montgomery County and Prince George's County). This part of I-495 was planned and engineered before the USDOT Act was passed and signed into law, including in particular Section 4(f), which greatly restricts federal-aid transportation projects that use federal funding from being built on parkland.   

Note that while there was some parkland taken in vicinity of the junction of I-495 and I-270Y, it was not as much as it was with the section I mention above.

I think I implied it in my post, but you are telling me zero information I donít already know.
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mrsman

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1938 on: September 16, 2020, 10:08:59 AM »

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS): 36 truck crashes on Beltway's 'Big Curve' and crews can't figure out how to make it stop
Signs, citations, and warnings have failed to get truckers to slow down at the merge of the Beltway and the I-270 spur.


Most of the crashes have been on the Outer Loop of I-495 approaching the sharp left turn to merge with I-270Y (I-270 Spur) - Google Maps here.

While I realize why it is the way it is, I honestly wish we could completely redesign the entire Montgomery County segment. Itís easily the most dangerous portion, and not just the big curve. All of it is far from ideal.

Highly unlikely to ever happen. 

I-495 between MD-97 (Exit 31, Georgia Avenue) and MD-355/I-270 (Exits 34 and 35) was mostly built on lands originally purchased as parkland under the federal Capper-Cramton Act and now owned by the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission (a state of Maryland agency, the bicounty park agency for Montgomery County and Prince George's County). This part of I-495 was planned and engineered before the USDOT Act was passed and signed into law, including in particular Section 4(f), which greatly restricts federal-aid transportation projects that use federal funding from being built on parkland.   

Note that while there was some parkland taken in vicinity of the junction of I-495 and I-270Y, it was not as much as it was with the section I mention above.

I think I implied it in my post, but you are telling me zero information I donít already know.

Would section 4(f) prevent improvements to the existing highway?  It would be nice if the impacts from the curves on the portion west of Georgia could be dealt with.  I always hate traveling that section, especially coming from 270, as I have to make two right hand lane changes through all those curves in order to exit at Georgia, which is the closest exit to my house.

Perhaps these improvements can be made within the scope of the Express Lane project.

[If I am in North Bethesda, I often go past the direct ramps to 270 or 495 from Old Georgetown and Rockville Pike to take the OG ramps to 495 or make the u-turn at Alta Vista on Wisconsin Ave in order to enter the Beltway from the right side, but if I'm coming from further, I just grin and bear it with regard to the lane changes.]
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1939 on: September 16, 2020, 12:44:13 PM »

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS) ....


Now those are call letters I had not seen nor heard nor thought of for many, many years.


I don't recall this being as big of an issue in the past.  What changed?

I agree with you, it seems to be a bigger problem lately. I suspect that as to 2020 in particular it's a combination of a year with considerably more wet weather than usual (as of the end of August, Reagan Airport had received 35.85" of precipitation this year, compared to the average 26.4" through that point in the year), a lot less traffic than usual, and people driving a lot faster.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 12:48:30 PM by 1995hoo »
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1940 on: September 16, 2020, 01:35:03 PM »

^

Perhaps the only segment of the Beltway that truly warrants a 55 mph speed limit, no excuse anywhere else.
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famartin

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1941 on: September 16, 2020, 02:47:41 PM »

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS) ....


Now those are call letters I had not seen nor heard nor thought of for many, many years.


I don't recall this being as big of an issue in the past.  What changed?

I agree with you, it seems to be a bigger problem lately. I suspect that as to 2020 in particular it's a combination of a year with considerably more wet weather than usual (as of the end of August, Reagan Airport had received 35.85" of precipitation this year, compared to the average 26.4" through that point in the year), a lot less traffic than usual, and people driving a lot faster.

As another posted, the decrease in traffic due to COVID is the likely cause, resulting in higher average speeds overall. Most fed offices remain on TW so a lot of people are still staying home when theyíre working.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1942 on: September 16, 2020, 06:26:48 PM »

Would section 4(f) prevent improvements to the existing highway?  It would be nice if the impacts from the curves on the portion west of Georgia could be dealt with.  I always hate traveling that section, especially coming from 270, as I have to make two right hand lane changes through all those curves in order to exit at Georgia, which is the closest exit to my house.

The deal that Maryland committed to with the federal government when it widened I-495 from MD-97 to the American Legion Bridge to make it 8 lanes total in the 1980's was that it would not be further widened.  I am not sure that they took any land for that - it was widened mostly by removing the median.  If it was to be widened further (outward), then Section 4(f) (and the Capper-Cramton Act) would apply.

Perhaps these improvements can be made within the scope of the Express Lane project.

The current P3 project has dropped the section between MD-355 and I-95 due to objections from NIMBYs and the federal government.

[If I am in North Bethesda, I often go past the direct ramps to 270 or 495 from Old Georgetown and Rockville Pike to take the OG ramps to 495 or make the u-turn at Alta Vista on Wisconsin Ave in order to enter the Beltway from the right side, but if I'm coming from further, I just grin and bear it with regard to the lane changes.]

It can be hard to get over to the right there - years ago I lived off of U.S. 29 (one exit east beyond MD-97), and it was sometimes difficult to get to the right lane.
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1943 on: September 16, 2020, 06:51:11 PM »

It would be important to know when the crashes are happening. If they're rolling over at 8am, working from home is an excuse.  At 2am, it's not.

I happened to be passing by one of these crashes one rainy night, and rainy weather this year is suspicion for many of these crashes.

A good analysis by someone who actually cares can help reveal the times and the weather that was occurring at the time.
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1944 on: September 16, 2020, 07:24:27 PM »

It would be important to know when the crashes are happening. If they're rolling over at 8am, working from home is an excuse.  At 2am, it's not.

I happened to be passing by one of these crashes one rainy night, and rainy weather this year is suspicion for many of these crashes.

A good analysis by someone who actually cares can help reveal the times and the weather that was occurring at the time.

Itís hard to buy the rain excuse when 2018 was far wetter.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1945 on: September 16, 2020, 07:39:21 PM »

WDVM-TV 9 (CBS) ....


Now those are call letters I had not seen nor heard nor thought of for many, many years.

I suppose I could have written WTOP-TV 9 instead!

Corrected. 
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