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[Revive 755]

https://www.stjoe229.com/potential-alignments

* Several options would decommission I-229.  Given MoDOT usual insistentance that 'an interstate must end at another interstate' (somehow forgetting about I-72 in Hannibal), the remaining sections of I-229 would probably be downgraded to a state route.

* 2 options cross over into via US 36 and later cross back into Missouri on a new bridge.

* Almost all of the options do not fix the interchange with US 36 and leave it with stoplights.

[Bobby5280]

I think chances are very remote for I-229 to be retained as a thru route. That double deck bridge along the river front will certainly be demolished. For a town of 70,000 the cost of replacing the double deck bridge with a new elevated structure to retain the thru Interstate will be a bit much.

The existing Interstate is one big barrier between the downtown and the river front. Removing it won't end the configuration problems for the river front. I think the railroad lines next to the double deck bridge will do just as much to prevent a revitalization of the river front.

[Chris]

I found the double-deck bridge of I-229 odd, especially after I learned it was built only in the 1980s. It seems like it was built with a 1950s mindset that downtown areas needed direct freeway access. But St. Joseph is only a small city and not much traffic is using it. According to this MoDOT map, the double-deck elevated structure is used by only 15,000 vehicles per day. It's a unique structure from an engineering viewpoint but it's totally understandable to tear it down if it reaches the end of its lifespan and maintenance cost becomes too high.

[thspfc]

I generally don't approve of demolishing existing freeways, but this is an exception. St. Joseph should get the DOT to demolish it, and then redevelop their riverfront with a nice park or apartment complex. The US-36 freeway can stay as the main route in and out of downtown, and I-229 can be turned into a surface parkway.

[The Ghostbuster]

Would it be possible to place the northbound segment of Interstate 229 directly over the existing railroad tracks, while leaving southbound on its existing alignment?

[Verlanka]

Would it be possible to place the northbound segment of Interstate 229 directly over the existing railroad tracks, while leaving southbound on its existing alignment?

No, because the railroad might still need it.

[froggie]

Taking a read through the generalized impacts and costs of each option, these are the three that I see being most likely to proceed to further analysis:

- Local Street Option/Arterials East
- Parkway-Boulevard/Parkway Option (along existing, not the extensions)
- Main-2nd Option/Along Main Street

[mgk920]

I generally don't approve of demolishing existing freeways, but this is an exception. St. Joseph should get the DOT to demolish it, and then redevelop their riverfront with a nice park or apartment complex. The US-36 freeway can stay as the main route in and out of downtown, and I-229 can be turned into a surface parkway.

I kind of agree, too.  The railroad is still a formidable barrier between downtown and the River, but the traffic counts on I-229 are just too low to justify its continued existence.  The south part of I-229 should be kept, ending no farther north than 6th/Atcheson, with 6th St then being seriously upgraded from there into downtown as a surface street and the remaining freeway from 6th/Atcheson to I-29 south being remarked as, let's say, 'I-129'.

The north end has an AADT well under 10K and may as well be kept, maybe retaining an interstate number ('I-329'?).  I wonder if it would be possible to renumber it as non-interstate 'US 71' instead.

This would also allow for a much more safe and useful major ramp reconfiguration on US 36 in the downtown area.

Mike

[skluth]

mgk920's suggestion to end I-229 at 6th/Atchison and upgrade 6th into central St Joseph is probably the best option at the south end. (There will need to be some property acquisition along 6th.) I had not realized there are stoplights @ the I-229 interchange on what otherwise is a freeway on US 36 from east of I-29 to a few miles west of the Missouri River in Kansas. The direct ramps from I-229 to/from downtown to US 36 can be connected instead to 6th St, and more importantly the stoplights can be removed from US 36.

I like the option of converting the north end to a more western bypass over the Missouri River and connecting to US 36 west of Elwood. It also gives St Joseph a direct connection to its airport without going through Kansas. I'd like it better if the states worked together and built the direct connection from US 36 from west of Wathena and north of the airport to I-229. It's probably one of the more expensive options, and probably out of the question with both Kansas and Missouri's budget issues.

I don't like the parkway options along the riverfront as any parkway will likely become something of a racetrack. A typical speed limit of 35 mph would often be ignored on a wide parkway with no stops and good viewing distances, and a higher speed limit would negate the reason to build a parkway. A short tunnel or two for the railroads along the riverfront (like what St Louis did near the Arch) would make the riverfront much more accessible.

I'm surprised with all the New Urbanist "remove urban freeways" talk that this is never mentioned. It really is a classic example of a freeway where the benefits of removal without replacement are worth it. I guess St Joseph isn't trendy enough to be worth the effort.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I'm surprised with all the New Urbanist "remove urban freeways" talk that this is never mentioned. It really is a classic example of a freeway where the benefits of removal without replacement are worth it. I guess St Joseph isn't trendy enough to be worth the effort.

They're working on it...

[seicer]

What was the justification for this mammoth viaduct anyways?

[David F]

What was the justification for this mammoth viaduct anyways?

the extreme lack of space most likely, plus the city and modot probably thought it would jump-start the city and it would prosper from there, but clearly that hasn't worked 

[thspfc]

What was the justification for this mammoth viaduct anyways?

the extreme lack of space most likely, plus the city and modot probably thought it would jump-start the city and it would prosper from there, but clearly that hasn't worked 

Building an ugly and unneeded viaduct through a city probably isn't a very good way to improve its attractiveness.

[M86]

I've driven that stretch through St. Joe a few times. It reminded of how I-29 through Sioux City, Iowa used to be. White knuckles that you might scrape the concrete barriers with your side view mirrors. Aesthetically horrific. The smell depends on the day.

The amount of money to rebuild I-229 in downtown St. Joseph completely isn't worth it. 

That being said, I always think having an Interstate extension can be beneficial for a town. 

But, compared to its I-229 cousin in Sioux Falls, I-229 in St. Joe should probably be downgraded, and fixed. And yeah, the traffic counts aren't there.

[David F]

Building an ugly and unneeded viaduct through a city probably isn't a very good way to improve its attractiveness.

clearly, but unfortunately modot nor the city of st joseph really realize that when they constructed that

[thspfc]

Building an ugly and unneeded viaduct through a city probably isn't a very good way to improve its attractiveness.

clearly, but unfortunately modot nor the city of st joseph really realize that when they constructed that

If the viaduct was built in the 80s as other posters say, it was after the main push to litter downtowns with freeways in the 50s and 60s, so it's especially odd why it was constructed.

[Duke87]

If the viaduct was built in the 80s as other posters say, it was after the main push to litter downtowns with freeways in the 50s and 60s, so it's especially odd why it was constructed.

Not entirely. There are urban freeways out there that were that were built after the "main push". For another example, I-670 in Kansas City wasn't finished until 1991.

The key is these were plans that were made in the 60s or earlier that were not subsequently abandoned once attitudes generally shifted. Rather they were simply delayed in execution by funding or legal hurdles.

[skluth]

The freeway revolt was a major city phenomenon. St Joseph is a small city where almost everyone still drives cars. Much less opposition.

[froggie]

As a result of this thread, I've created my own concept for the project, which borrows heavily from the "3/4 Lane Option Along Main Street" alternative but with some changes, as well as eliminating the signals along 36.  I've posted the concept in the Fictional Highways section.

[Plutonic Panda]

Update on this project:

Officials with the Missouri Department of Transportation are again moving forward with plans for changes to the Interstate 229 double-decker bridge.

- https://www.newspressnow.com/news/local_news/government/modot-to-discuss-i-229-alternatives-with-organizations/article_0a083b0a-042f-11ec-80ed-575906dc3e3c.html

[The Ghostbuster]

No alternatives for keeping 229 completely freeway through the area? I'm not convinced that using surface streets would be a superior way of getting through town.

[seicer]

If you are "getting through town," you'd be taking I-29.

[froggie]

Traffic volumes on 229 barely justify 4 lanes, let alone a freeway.  I see no problem with a downgrade here.  And seicer's right..."through traffic" would be taking 29.

[Plutonic Panda]

I really don’t know much about this area and it’s needs. I figured it wouldn’t hurt to have a freeway here after seeing maps unless the train tracks are rerouted any waterfront development would have to be pretty compact. Maybe they can build a scaled down version of Saudi Arabia’s carless linear city lol.

[kphoger]

And seicer's right..."through traffic" would be taking 29.

I've only driven it once.  We were on our way north from Wichita to the Des Moines area.  I used I-129 to get from I-29 to US-71, and we needed to stop for lunch.