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Author Topic: CA 193  (Read 1976 times)

mrsman

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2020, 07:15:41 AM »

The CA 246 situation and so many other speaks to the need to develop a signing practice to continue a routing for navigation purposes, even if a routing is no longer maintained by state.

Something like County maintainence shields (blue pentagons or white pentagons) that retain the same number.  So yes, if green miner spade 246 ends at the Lompoc city limit, blue pentagon SB County 246 can continue from there all the way to Surf, solely for navigational purposes.

CA already has precedent for this, Interstate highways that continue on non-interstate corridors retain their number, even if they change their shield.  I-110/CA-110, I-210/CA-210, and others.
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sparker

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 07:11:08 PM »

The CA 246 situation and so many other speaks to the need to develop a signing practice to continue a routing for navigation purposes, even if a routing is no longer maintained by state.

Something like County maintainence shields (blue pentagons or white pentagons) that retain the same number.  So yes, if green miner spade 246 ends at the Lompoc city limit, blue pentagon SB County 246 can continue from there all the way to Surf, solely for navigational purposes.

CA already has precedent for this, Interstate highways that continue on non-interstate corridors retain their number, even if they change their shield.  I-110/CA-110, I-210/CA-210, and others.

There are a few incidents of this type, mostly in the San Joaquin Valley; while CA 59 ends abruptly outside the town of Snelling (where it was to terminate at the alignment of the proposed CA 65), the continuation north toward Sonora is County J59; likewise, the continuation of CA 132 past CA 49 is signed as County J132, renumbered from J20.  L.A. County sort of "half-assed" it with the continuation of CA 107 as County N7 -- but that was done during the time the county was somewhat serious about signing its arterials through the hills, and they wanted to maintain some sort of low-number sequence.  But OTOH, J59 has been around for about 55 years now, and the continuum works well to funnel traffic from southerly points along CA 99 to the Sonora area.  I think more should be done in this fashion; e.g., replace A21 from Westwood to CA 44 with A147 as an extension of that state route as an all-weather (for the most part) alternative to CA 89 through Lassen Park would be an appropriate start.   
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2020, 07:16:33 PM »

The CA 246 situation and so many other speaks to the need to develop a signing practice to continue a routing for navigation purposes, even if a routing is no longer maintained by state.

Something like County maintainence shields (blue pentagons or white pentagons) that retain the same number.  So yes, if green miner spade 246 ends at the Lompoc city limit, blue pentagon SB County 246 can continue from there all the way to Surf, solely for navigational purposes.

CA already has precedent for this, Interstate highways that continue on non-interstate corridors retain their number, even if they change their shield.  I-110/CA-110, I-210/CA-210, and others.

There are a few incidents of this type, mostly in the San Joaquin Valley; while CA 59 ends abruptly outside the town of Snelling (where it was to terminate at the alignment of the proposed CA 65), the continuation north toward Sonora is County J59; likewise, the continuation of CA 132 past CA 49 is signed as County J132, renumbered from J20.  L.A. County sort of "half-assed" it with the continuation of CA 107 as County N7 -- but that was done during the time the county was somewhat serious about signing its arterials through the hills, and they wanted to maintain some sort of low-number sequence.  But OTOH, J59 has been around for about 55 years now, and the continuum works well to funnel traffic from southerly points along CA 99 to the Sonora area.  I think more should be done in this fashion; e.g., replace A21 from Westwood to CA 44 with A147 as an extension of that state route as an all-weather (for the most part) alternative to CA 89 through Lassen Park would be an appropriate start.   

J1 to J180 is a no brainer that should have happened long ago IMO. 
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oscar

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2020, 08:20:04 PM »

Something like County maintainence shields (blue pentagons or white pentagons) that retain the same number.  So yes, if green miner spade 246 ends at the Lompoc city limit, blue pentagon SB County 246 can continue from there all the way to Surf, solely for navigational purposes.

CA already has precedent for this, Interstate highways that continue on non-interstate corridors retain their number, even if they change their shield.  I-110/CA-110, I-210/CA-210, and others.

It helps that Caltrans maintains and signs the Interstate continuations. Where a state route ends and continues as a county road, continuation signage depends on the county giving a shit about such signage, or even participating in the County Signed Route program. Not all counties do, which WRT Lompoc includes Santa Barbara County (which once had a CSR, but no longer has any).
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 08:23:18 PM »

Really the State Highways ought to just be signed where they are needed versus who maintains them.  That was the original intent with the Sign State Routes when they became a thing in 1934.  The biggest difference now is that there arenít things like Auto Clubs to pick up the slack of a lazy local DOT. 
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mrsman

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2020, 06:50:39 AM »

Really the State Highways ought to just be signed where they are needed versus who maintains them.  That was the original intent with the Sign State Routes when they became a thing in 1934.  The biggest difference now is that there arenít things like Auto Clubs to pick up the slack of a lazy local DOT.

Agreed.  It would be nice if signing routes were a state priority, even if maintenance was no longer managed by the state.
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kkt

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2020, 03:20:28 PM »

Really the State Highways ought to just be signed where they are needed versus who maintains them.  That was the original intent with the Sign State Routes when they became a thing in 1934.  The biggest difference now is that there arenít things like Auto Clubs to pick up the slack of a lazy local DOT. 

Absolutely.  Drivers don't care who maintains a road, for the most part.  They just want to follow a route to where they're going.
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sparker

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2020, 04:55:42 PM »

Really the State Highways ought to just be signed where they are needed versus who maintains them.  That was the original intent with the Sign State Routes when they became a thing in 1934.  The biggest difference now is that there arenít things like Auto Clubs to pick up the slack of a lazy local DOT. 

Absolutely.  Drivers don't care who maintains a road, for the most part.  They just want to follow a route to where they're going.


............or a largely apathetic state DOT (are you listening, Caltrans?).  Too bad the AAA of today is more interested in selling insurance than providing input to those DOT's like in the "good old days" (disclaimer: I do have AAA car insurance!)  At least you can still scare a few maps out of them (although sometimes out of an automated dispenser that reads your membership card!), so they're not entirely useless!
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mrsman

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2020, 07:15:09 AM »

Really the State Highways ought to just be signed where they are needed versus who maintains them.  That was the original intent with the Sign State Routes when they became a thing in 1934.  The biggest difference now is that there arenít things like Auto Clubs to pick up the slack of a lazy local DOT. 

Absolutely.  Drivers don't care who maintains a road, for the most part.  They just want to follow a route to where they're going.


............or a largely apathetic state DOT (are you listening, Caltrans?).  Too bad the AAA of today is more interested in selling insurance than providing input to those DOT's like in the "good old days" (disclaimer: I do have AAA car insurance!)  At least you can still scare a few maps out of them (although sometimes out of an automated dispenser that reads your membership card!), so they're not entirely useless!

Signing routes is properly a state govt function and its preferable that DOT signs them and not AAA.  Of course, that only assumes that the DOT is actually signing them.

IT really can't be that expensive to put up a couple of ground mounted shields here and there.  Heck, many cities put up multiple signs of all types all over the place like parking regulations, speed limit signs, and other warnings.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: CA 193
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2020, 07:55:33 AM »

Really the State Highways ought to just be signed where they are needed versus who maintains them.  That was the original intent with the Sign State Routes when they became a thing in 1934.  The biggest difference now is that there arenít things like Auto Clubs to pick up the slack of a lazy local DOT. 

Absolutely.  Drivers don't care who maintains a road, for the most part.  They just want to follow a route to where they're going.


............or a largely apathetic state DOT (are you listening, Caltrans?).  Too bad the AAA of today is more interested in selling insurance than providing input to those DOT's like in the "good old days" (disclaimer: I do have AAA car insurance!)  At least you can still scare a few maps out of them (although sometimes out of an automated dispenser that reads your membership card!), so they're not entirely useless!

Signing routes is properly a state govt function and its preferable that DOT signs them and not AAA.  Of course, that only assumes that the DOT is actually signing them.

IT really can't be that expensive to put up a couple of ground mounted shields here and there.  Heck, many cities put up multiple signs of all types all over the place like parking regulations, speed limit signs, and other warnings.

Iíve often wonder how that expense is calculated.  First there would be the actual parts (the shield, accessory signs, and sign post) but then you have things like; the cost of getting a vehicle to a location and payroll.  Iíve heard some stratospheric numbers thrown out by DOTs but Iíve never a number from Caltrans.  As a starting basis it seems that the typical spade, US Route cut-out, and Interstate shield runs in the neighborhood of $90-$140 dollars (new) depending on the source.  That price seems to vary greatly depending the size/width of said shield.
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