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Author Topic: Cities that have similar freeway networks  (Read 1383 times)

SectorZ

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2019, 08:38:41 PM »

I always thought Indy and Columbus, OH are similar...and had the Downtown Indy Loop happened, would have been moreso

They are nearly identical cities. Similar skylines, similar population,weather,etc.
To the casual observer, you might think so. However the cities are quite different. Both are state capitols, but Indianapolis is the dominant city in Indiana, while Columbus is at best Ohio's third most significant metropolis. Columbus is basically just an overgrown college town with only one major professional sports team (the Blue Jackets), while Indy has the Pacers, the Colts, and the Fever... as well as a little thing called the Indianapolis 500. Oh, I guess you can include the MLS Crew for the city named after a racist European invader, that is IF you count soccer as a "major" professional sport.  :sombrero:  Indy has the world's largest Children's Museum, Columbus has Ohio State (for what that's worth  :sleep:). When I-465 was built in the late 1960s it was almost entirely 3 lanes in each direction, a distinction that I-270 couldn't make until the early 2000s. Another significant highway difference between the cities is that Columbus has state route freeways, while all of Indy's freeways (except for US 31 in Hamilton County) are Interstates.

All that being said, I used to work for a company based in Columbus (OH) and I have spent significant over time there. It is a pleasant city with friendly people, and except for their hang-up over the word "The"  :pan:, they are wonderful folks. Our two cities share a bond as "flyover country" to many on our coasts, but we "No Coasters" do just fine without those snobs. The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE (BTW, Indy has access to TWO Big Ten schools within 50 miles, not just one).

You leave out MLS, meanwhile, WTF are the "Fever"?
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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2019, 09:35:10 PM »

I always thought Indy and Columbus, OH are similar...and had the Downtown Indy Loop happened, would have been moreso

They are nearly identical cities. Similar skylines, similar population,weather,etc.
To the casual observer, you might think so. However the cities are quite different. Both are state capitols, but Indianapolis is the dominant city in Indiana, while Columbus is at best Ohio's third most significant metropolis. Columbus is basically just an overgrown college town with only one major professional sports team (the Blue Jackets), while Indy has the Pacers, the Colts, and the Fever... as well as a little thing called the Indianapolis 500. Oh, I guess you can include the MLS Crew for the city named after a racist European invader, that is IF you count soccer as a "major" professional sport.  :sombrero:  Indy has the world's largest Children's Museum, Columbus has Ohio State (for what that's worth  :sleep:). When I-465 was built in the late 1960s it was almost entirely 3 lanes in each direction, a distinction that I-270 couldn't make until the early 2000s. Another significant highway difference between the cities is that Columbus has state route freeways, while all of Indy's freeways (except for US 31 in Hamilton County) are Interstates.

All that being said, I used to work for a company based in Columbus (OH) and I have spent significant over time there. It is a pleasant city with friendly people, and except for their hang-up over the word "The"  :pan:, they are wonderful folks. Our two cities share a bond as "flyover country" to many on our coasts, but we "No Coasters" do just fine without those snobs. The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE (BTW, Indy has access to TWO Big Ten schools within 50 miles, not just one).

You leave out MLS, meanwhile, WTF are the "Fever"?

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2019, 08:44:22 AM »

You can’t just rank the WNBA as higher than the MLS. That’s just not how it works.
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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2019, 12:13:42 PM »



Portland and Seattle



Doubly so, if I-90 had been finished to SR 99, and the Bayshore Freeway completed, in Seattle.  And the Prescott Freeway completed in Portland.
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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2019, 01:45:09 PM »

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a “Loop” of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.
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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2019, 01:51:54 PM »

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a “Loop” of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2019, 02:05:54 PM »

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a “Loop” of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys. 

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2019, 11:38:33 AM »

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a “Loop” of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys.

Both cities have a clear radius of about 50 km with no real mountains that would constrain growth. Colorado Springs has mountains. Reno has mountains. I would even say that Bakersfield, Fresno, and Sacramento have mountains before I would say so about Las Vegas and Phoenix. Las Vegas and Phoenix barely have rivers or lakes.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2019, 03:01:00 PM »

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a “Loop” of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys.

Both cities have a clear radius of about 50 km with no real mountains that would constrain growth. Colorado Springs has mountains. Reno has mountains. I would even say that Bakersfield, Fresno, and Sacramento have mountains before I would say so about Las Vegas and Phoenix. Las Vegas and Phoenix barely have rivers or lakes.

Actually Phoenix does have the Salt River which affects the grid to a large degree in the East Valley, not so much with the smaller rivers.  Sacramento and Fresno are more restricted by rivers on top of farm land than the Sierras.  Bakersfield backs right up to the Sierras on it’s eastern boundary. 

SSR_317

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2019, 11:44:27 AM »

The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE
I could ask how and why STL is not a Midwest city...
Simple. Illinois was part of the Northwest Territories, Missouri was not. You could never own another human being in the Midwest, while in Saint Louis you could. The Great Planes begin at the Mississippi River, where the Midwest ends.
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SSR_317

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2019, 11:47:28 AM »

I always thought Indy and Columbus, OH are similar...and had the Downtown Indy Loop happened, would have been moreso

They are nearly identical cities. Similar skylines, similar population,weather,etc.
To the casual observer, you might think so. However the cities are quite different. Both are state capitols, but Indianapolis is the dominant city in Indiana, while Columbus is at best Ohio's third most significant metropolis. Columbus is basically just an overgrown college town with only one major professional sports team (the Blue Jackets), while Indy has the Pacers, the Colts, and the Fever... as well as a little thing called the Indianapolis 500. Oh, I guess you can include the MLS Crew for the city named after a racist European invader, that is IF you count soccer as a "major" professional sport.  :sombrero:  Indy has the world's largest Children's Museum, Columbus has Ohio State (for what that's worth  :sleep:). When I-465 was built in the late 1960s it was almost entirely 3 lanes in each direction, a distinction that I-270 couldn't make until the early 2000s. Another significant highway difference between the cities is that Columbus has state route freeways, while all of Indy's freeways (except for US 31 in Hamilton County) are Interstates.

All that being said, I used to work for a company based in Columbus (OH) and I have spent significant over time there. It is a pleasant city with friendly people, and except for their hang-up over the word "The"  :pan:, they are wonderful folks. Our two cities share a bond as "flyover country" to many on our coasts, but we "No Coasters" do just fine without those snobs. The Midwest (no, NOT you St. Louis) and Big Ten RULE (BTW, Indy has access to TWO Big Ten schools within 50 miles, not just one).

You leave out MLS, meanwhile, WTF are the "Fever"?
I kid the fans of soccer, it is a great sport (just not that much in THIS country). The Indiana Fever have been a major league basketball team in the WNBA for twenty years now. Now you know.
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SSR_317

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2019, 11:50:03 AM »

You can’t just rank the WNBA as higher than the MLS. That’s just not how it works.
At least according to YOU. I can rank them any way I please, you are free in this country (for now) to disagree. Now let's move on and talk about highways & transportation.
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SSR_317

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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2019, 11:57:54 AM »

Phoenix and Las Vegas seem to both be going for the concept of using single numeric designations as a “Loop” of sorts regarding freeway numbering.

Phoenix and Las Vegas can be similar because both cities aren't particularly constrained by local geography. They are, in effect, "Huge cities in the middle of nowhere". Cities on a lake (like Chicago, or Cleveland, or Buffalo), river (like most of the larger mid-West cities) or on a coast or bay (like about half of the large cities in the US) all will have quirks that make it unlikely that their freeway networks would be repeated.

Both metro areas are blocked by mountains in some places.

I would say a more accurate way of describing Phoenix and Las Vegas is that both were designed with modern city planning in mind.  Both have similar grid patterns that was planned from a very early era to network outwards.  Rather than shoving a freeway (for the most part) through the heart of a developed area like an older city the freeway networks were planned more the outskirts in a beltway fashion near the areas of projected growth.  While outward growth is being gradually constrained by mountain ranges both Phoenix and Las Vegas do lie within large valleys.

Both cities have a clear radius of about 50 km with no real mountains that would constrain growth. Colorado Springs has mountains. Reno has mountains. I would even say that Bakersfield, Fresno, and Sacramento have mountains before I would say so about Las Vegas and Phoenix. Las Vegas and Phoenix barely have rivers or lakes.

Actually Phoenix does have the Salt River which affects the grid to a large degree in the East Valley, not so much with the smaller rivers.  Sacramento and Fresno are more restricted by rivers on top of farm land than the Sierras.  Bakersfield backs right up to the Sierras on it’s eastern boundary.
Having spent quite a bit of time in both cities over the past 35 years, I would say the factor that influenced them most would be the relative late date their freeways have been built compared to most other major metropolises in the USA. Thus, they learned SOME of the lessons that other places learned the hard way. Unfortunately, they did not learn ALL of the available lessons.

BTW, I was actually visiting Phoenix the week their original "Freeway Referendum" was passed in the 1980s.
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Re: Cities that have similar freeway networks
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2019, 02:37:19 PM »

Somewhat similar between San Antonio, TX and Indianapolis, IN when comparing the overall network and the freeways coming in and out, if you get rid of I-74 and the future I-69 southern connection, and only count the freeway segments outside the beltway. Inside, it's completely different than San Antonio.

I-465 is similar to I-410
I-65 North is similar to I-10 West
I-65 South is similar to I-37 South
I-70 West is similar to I-35 South
I-70 East is similar to I-10 East
I-69 North is similar to I-35 North
US-31 North is similar to US-281 North

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