AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?  (Read 1680 times)

1

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7366
  • UMass Lowell student

  • Age: 20
  • Location: MA/NH border
  • Last Login: Today at 12:04:16 PM
    • Flickr account
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2019, 09:24:43 PM »

You can't be safe from extreme weather.

ΑΚ, WA, ID, MT, WY, ND, SD, MN, IA, WI, MI, IL, IN, OH, PA, NJ, NY, VT, NH, ME, MA, CT, RI: Snow due to latitude
WV, UT, western half of CO, parts of NV, AZ, and NM: Snow due to elevation
DE, VA, DC, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, TX: Hurricanes
CA, OR: Earthquakes
The other parts of NV, AZ, and NM: Extreme heat
NE, KS, OK, MO, AR, TN, KY, eastern half of CO: Tornadoes

This covers everything except Hawaii, which is a different part of the world that just happens to belong to the same country.
Logged
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US ⒔50
MA ⒐2⒉40.9⒐10⒎10⒐1⒒1⒚14⒈159
NH 27, 111A(E); NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A; CT 32; VT 5A; QC 16⒉16⒌263

Flickr

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3237
  • Roadgeek Forever.

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Rochester, NY
  • Last Login: December 07, 2019, 09:54:08 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2019, 09:27:43 PM »

This idea that snowstorms do not cause damage is totally false.  The damage caused by accidents, ice dams (causing costly damage to homes) and to utilities is frequent and costly.  Although a bad earthquake can cause a single catastrophic event, the annual barrage of snow is routine, frequent and a constant expense -- especially when you include snow and ice operations.

None of that is truly threatening - to people or property - on a scale that's comparable to an earthquake, or even a fire or hurricane. Snowfall is much more manageable than any of those precisely because it is fairly predictable and recurs frequently over large areas.

Come to think of it, the idea that upstate cities can handle 2 feet of snow without breaking a sweat is also false.  Sure, they're used to it, but that doesn't mean work hours aren't lost as people dig themselves out or have to wait for plows to come by.

I never said we don't break a sweat. I just said it's business as usual, which very well may involve breaking a sweat, especially for those that snow blow or hand shovel. Relative to what happens in Chicago (and on most of the East Coast, for that matter), snow here causes very minimal disruption. What I mean by "business as usual" is no international airports brought to their knees, no extensive freight delays, no five-hour commutes, no nationwide media coverage, etc.
Logged
Left Lane is For Passing, Not Camping!
Threads Started
Counties Clinched

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5187
  • Last Login: Today at 09:07:32 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2019, 09:31:15 PM »

I think your perception is biased by the pride people have here in being able to cope with the snow.  Despite that pride, it is definitely not business as usual -- like a regular sunny day -- when 2 feet gets dropped.

Even in the offices of Syracuse, people take snow days.

Finally, if anything is unpredictable, it is snowfall.  And, you are greatly underestimating the costs snow incurs year after year, when major earthquakes and the like are quite infrequent.

And since when does Chicago not handle snow?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:34:15 PM by Rothman »
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Revive 755

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3743
  • Last Login: December 07, 2019, 11:18:54 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2019, 09:58:04 PM »

\CA, OR: Earthquakes

Technically you could add a good portion of Missouri, Illinois, Arkansas, and portions of Kentucky and Tennessee due to the New Madrid fault.  South Carolina also could be listed.

NE, KS, OK, MO, AR, TN, KY, eastern half of CO: Tornadoes

AL, IA, IL (which had a tornado warning in Lake County tonight, as well as a number of F4's and F5's in the past), and MS should be listed.

And since when does Chicago not handle snow?

I can't say for Chicago proper, but the other agencies have not done the best job for the past few seasons.
Logged

J N Winkler

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6416
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: Today at 03:12:59 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2019, 10:00:33 PM »

I never said we don't break a sweat. I just said it's business as usual, which very well may involve breaking a sweat, especially for those that snow blow or hand shovel. Relative to what happens in Chicago (and on most of the East Coast, for that matter), snow here causes very minimal disruption. What I mean by "business as usual" is no international airports brought to their knees, no extensive freight delays, no five-hour commutes, no nationwide media coverage, etc.

Freight delays, five-hour commutes, and airports brought to their knees are symptoms of infrastructure operating close to capacity.  One of the rationales for the ongoing O'Hare modernization plan is to effect a great reduction in weather delays (80% is the number I recall) by replacing the six intersecting runways with six east-west runways and two diagonal runways.  To the extent that utilization so near capacity is a sign of robust economic growth, snow-related crises can be seen as a good problem for Chicago to have.  Conversely, upstate New York being able to dig itself out quickly after a two-foot snowfall does not necessarily speak favorably of the economic health of the region.
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Max Rockatansky

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 9869
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Route 9, Sector 26
  • Last Login: Today at 03:31:59 PM
    • Gribblenation
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2019, 10:22:55 PM »

I'd add forest/wild fires as a much bigger hazard out west over earthquakes.  That whole deal in Ridgecrest didn't even turn out to be that big a thing but all the wild fires last year killed loads more people and did way more damage.  Even in Arizona the wild fires of the Colorado Plateau were a much bigger problem over the raw heat of the desert.

vdeane

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10579
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Latham, NY
  • Last Login: December 07, 2019, 11:06:45 PM
    • New York State Roads
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2019, 10:30:11 PM »

I'd rather deal with snowstorms rather than major natural disasters like fires, hurricanes, and earthquakes.  Regarding ice jams, I would avoid living in an area prone to be flooded by one - which I already do as I strive to avoid areas prone to flooding, as we seem to be getting "100 year floods" every five years these days.  Otherwise, the only severe damage I've heard of from a snowstorm is when the area south of Buffalo got seven feet all at once.  That was pretty extreme.

Meanwhile, if you're hit with a hurricane, earthquake, or fire, you just lost your home and all your possessions.  No thanks.  I don't care if everything's insured - that's way, way, WAY more hassle than I want to deal with!
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

inkyatari

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1460
  • Widen I-80 through all of Illinois!

  • Age: 51
  • Location: Morris, IL
  • Last Login: December 01, 2019, 10:15:46 AM
    • Pie Factory Podcast - Classic Arcade gaming talk
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2019, 10:51:11 PM »

\CA, OR: Earthquakes

Technically you could add a good portion of Missouri, Illinois, Arkansas, and portions of Kentucky and Tennessee due to the New Madrid fault.  South Carolina also could be listed.


Being a bit pedantic here, but a growing number of seismologists are thinking that the New Madrid fault isn't active anymore.  They're citing the Wabash Seismic Zone which is on the Illinois / Indiana border to the ENE. Indeed, the last major earthquake in the region was a 5.2 that struck Mt. Carmel IL in 2008.
Logged
I'm never wrong, just wildly inaccurate.

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3237
  • Roadgeek Forever.

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Rochester, NY
  • Last Login: December 07, 2019, 09:54:08 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2019, 11:20:45 PM »

Earthquakes and fires are also not comparable to snowstorms. Snowstorms are oft-recurring, extremely predictable and manageable weather events that are not inherently dangerous to humans and human property.
Extremely predictable?  So how much snow is Chicago getting this coming winter, and when will the first big storm be?

The entire Chicago area will see several snowfalls, including some significant ones, between November 2019 and March 2020. That's a lot more predictable and a lot more detail this far in advance than you would ever get for an earthquake or a wildfire.

Quote
I get the impression that "business as usual" is defined differently for an urban area like Chicago versus a mostly rural area such as Upstate New York.

Upstate NY may be mostly rural in terms of area, but there are four metro areas of about 1 million people each, accounting for about 2/3 of the total population. In terms of how weather affects "business as usual", I don't see any reason why there should be a difference between a mid-size metro and a large one like Chicagoland.
Logged
Left Lane is For Passing, Not Camping!
Threads Started
Counties Clinched

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3237
  • Roadgeek Forever.

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Rochester, NY
  • Last Login: December 07, 2019, 09:54:08 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2019, 11:33:02 PM »

You can't be safe from extreme weather.

Snow is not extreme weather, by any definition.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 11:35:12 PM by webny99 »
Logged
Left Lane is For Passing, Not Camping!
Threads Started
Counties Clinched

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 8294
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 01:32:13 PM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2019, 12:12:06 AM »

Earthquakes and fires are random events that may or may not affect you. If you live in Chicago, it's near-certain you're going to get affected by a snowstorm.

Earthquakes and fires are also not comparable to snowstorms. Snowstorms are oft-recurring, extremely predictable and manageable weather events that are not inherently dangerous to humans and human property.

A snowstorm in Chicago very well may wreak as much havoc as an earthquake in San Fran would... but that is 100% Chicago's problem. If Upstate NY and other northern areas can get 2 feet of snow and carry on with business as usual, Chicago should be able to figure it out as well. And "affected" is a fairly relative term. I guess you could say I was affected by whatever snowstorms we got last year. What affected me most was that I'm fortunate to live in an area with proper management of and response to snowstorms!

That's actually coming at my point from a different direction—if someone doesn't want to live in Chicago because of the snow, it is not because they are afraid of the snow hurting them, it's because they don't want to have to deal with the mental overhead of managing their lives around  snowstorms. It's more akin to not wanting to live in Oklahoma because of the heat, rather than avoid it because of the tornadoes.

You can't be safe from extreme weather.

Snow is not extreme weather, by any definition.

It is considered such here because there is no infrastructure. OKC got 14 inches of snow in 2009, and we had no ability to handle it because that had never happened since the city had been founded. So the Highway Patrol just shut down the entire interstate system until ODOT had a plan.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:15:18 AM by Scott5114 »
Logged

allniter89

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 501
  • siss boom baa... rotflmao!

  • Age: 66
  • Location: I 10 exit 70 FL
  • Last Login: December 05, 2019, 09:40:43 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2019, 12:14:21 AM »

 I've always considered Kent Co, DE home wherever I was staying. I have many good friends & memories there.

I'm sole caregiver for me mum, she's 94 & cannot travel. When she passes I plan to return to my beloved Delaware.
Logged

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5894
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:12:14 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2019, 12:35:17 AM »

This idea that snowstorms do not cause damage is totally false.  The damage caused by accidents, ice dams (causing costly damage to homes) and to utilities is frequent and costly.  Although a bad earthquake can cause a single catastrophic event, the annual barrage of snow is routine, frequent and a constant expense -- especially when you include snow and ice operations.
VDOT currently has a $220 million annual budget item for snow and ice removal.

It's gonna be expensive in any state that gets heavy snowfall.  The western part of Virginia gets lots of it.

Come to think of it, the idea that upstate cities can handle 2 feet of snow without breaking a sweat is also false.  Sure, they're used to it, but that doesn't mean work hours aren't lost as people dig themselves out or have to wait for plows to come by.
Friends in the Buffalo area say at about 12 inches accumulation driving starts getting pretty difficult for everyone.  Even though they have one of the best snow removal fleets in the world.
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com
On the Plains of Hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to rest, and resting died.

Max Rockatansky

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 9869
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Route 9, Sector 26
  • Last Login: Today at 03:31:59 PM
    • Gribblenation
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2019, 12:42:35 AM »

You can't be safe from extreme weather.

Snow is not extreme weather, by any definition.

Try a snow storm in the Sierras.  Getting over even I-80 in the dead of winter can be a trip from hell.   

Duke87

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5324
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Queens, NY
  • Last Login: Today at 01:53:53 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2019, 01:22:56 AM »

Meanwhile, if you're hit with a hurricane, earthquake, or fire, you just lost your home and all your possessions.  No thanks.  I don't care if everything's insured - that's way, way, WAY more hassle than I want to deal with!

Do realize that the vast majority of structures in an area impacted by a hurricane or earthquake will likely survive it with little to no damage.

My big thing regarding hurricanes is simply: check the SLOSH maps for anywhere near the coast and flood hazard maps for anywhere near a creek or river. It is VERY predictable where homes will get destroyed by a major storm (tropical in nature or otherwise)... just don't be one of the idiots who chooses to live in a flood hazard zone and you've got little to worry about.

Earthquakes, too, are not really a problem... in places where structures are designed to withstand them. In this regard I have no qualms on California, the nature of seismic activity there has been well understood for a long time and their built environment is well-prepared to handle them. Note that the Loma Prieta and Northridge quakes both only killed a few dozen people in metro areas home to millions.
On the other hand, further up the Pacific coast, the hazard from earthquakes was not understood until recently and much of the built environment is not built to handle it. Thus, there is no amount you could pay me to live west of the Cascades in Oregon or Washington. Those are areas where a lot of people are going to die or endure massive hardship the next time the Cascadia fault slips.
Logged
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

jeffandnicole

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10383
  • Age: 44
  • Location: South Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:37:19 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2019, 05:26:22 AM »

You can't be safe from extreme weather.

Snow is not extreme weather, by any definition.

So you never had a day off from school because of snow?

Logged

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5894
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:12:14 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2019, 06:56:50 AM »

My big thing regarding hurricanes is simply: check the SLOSH maps for anywhere near the coast and flood hazard maps for anywhere near a creek or river. It is VERY predictable where homes will get destroyed by a major storm (tropical in nature or otherwise)... just don't be one of the idiots who chooses to live in a flood hazard zone and you've got little to worry about.
I've come to hate hurricanes.  Their wind farm is often huge, like 200 miles diameter or more, their path is hard to predict, and with modern technology (the NHC website) you can instantly see the projected track and wind and size data.  In the old days you had to take a lot of effort like listening to the weather radio reports and plot the track on a paper chart, and few people did that.

Aside from the wind they can drop massive amounts of rain, even as the remnants of a tropical depression.  I live about 120 miles from the ocean, but even tropical storm force winds can do a lot of damage, and the rains can cause major river flooding as much as 200 miles inland, so seeing these storms in the Atlantic still makes a lot of people nervous here, especially when the projected track is headed this way. 

This last hurricane did pass just east of the east coast, but made millions of people nervous and did actual damage to the Outer Banks.
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com
On the Plains of Hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to rest, and resting died.

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5187
  • Last Login: Today at 09:07:32 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2019, 08:36:01 AM »

Vdeane:  By ice dams, I meant when you have heat escaping through the roof of a house which melts accumulated snow and then freezes over soffits and the like at the edge.  Water then backs up on the roof and the leaks into the house, causing roof damage and interior damage.  It is frighteningly common and very costly on a house-by-house basis each year.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3237
  • Roadgeek Forever.

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Rochester, NY
  • Last Login: December 07, 2019, 09:54:08 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2019, 01:28:36 PM »

You can't be safe from extreme weather.
Snow is not extreme weather, by any definition.
So you never had a day off from school because of snow?

Apparently, people took days off school for ball games, so that isn't a particularly relevant measure.

Snow days happen here, but they are rare; only in actual storms (a foot or more of accumulation), and not merely snowfall, which may occur every morning for a month straight and go largely unnoticed. I actually took more days off school for snow in private school than I would have in public school, because we were tied to several East Coast campus locations and they shut down at the drop of a hat.

Try a snow storm in the Sierras.  Getting over even I-80 in the dead of winter can be a trip from hell.   
It is considered [extreme] here because there is no infrastructure. OKC got 14 inches of snow in 2009, and we had no ability to handle it because that had never happened since the city had been founded. So the Highway Patrol just shut down the entire interstate system until ODOT had a plan.

Snowstorms and blizzards can be extreme, especially in areas where they're uncommon, but accumulating snow alone is not extreme.

In order for a snow event to be considered extreme, it would have to bring even the places with top-notch infrastructure to their knees; normally requiring 18 inches or more of snowfall in a short time period. Such events are rare enough that they can't be grouped with regular, run-of-the-mill snowfall, much in the same way that a rainy/windy day here with 50 mph wind gusts might be exciting, but simply can't be compared with a major Atlantic hurricane.
Logged
Left Lane is For Passing, Not Camping!
Threads Started
Counties Clinched

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3237
  • Roadgeek Forever.

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Rochester, NY
  • Last Login: December 07, 2019, 09:54:08 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2019, 01:36:04 PM »

I never said we don't break a sweat. I just said it's business as usual, which very well may involve breaking a sweat, especially for those that snow blow or hand shovel. Relative to what happens in Chicago (and on most of the East Coast, for that matter), snow here causes very minimal disruption. What I mean by "business as usual" is no international airports brought to their knees, no extensive freight delays, no five-hour commutes, no nationwide media coverage, etc.
Freight delays, five-hour commutes, and airports brought to their knees are symptoms of infrastructure operating close to capacity.  One of the rationales for the ongoing O'Hare modernization plan is to effect a great reduction in weather delays (80% is the number I recall) by replacing the six intersecting runways with six east-west runways and two diagonal runways.  To the extent that utilization so near capacity is a sign of robust economic growth, snow-related crises can be seen as a good problem for Chicago to have.  Conversely, upstate New York being able to dig itself out quickly after a two-foot snowfall does not necessarily speak favorably of the economic health of the region.

That's an interesting take that I'll be digesting for a while.
I tend to think that Chicago very well could have infrastructure for handling snow equal or superior to what we have in Upstate NY. They've simply chosen not to invest as much into such, because they don't see the overall volume and recurrence of snow that we see. Their ill-preparedness for large snowfall is magnified by their transportation system already operating at or near capacity. The Twin Cities and Montreal are two examples of metro areas that handle much more annual snowfall than Chicago, and do so much more effectively than Chicago, and I don't think it can be argued that they have an excess of infrastructure capacity or are in decline economically.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 01:38:15 PM by webny99 »
Logged
Left Lane is For Passing, Not Camping!
Threads Started
Counties Clinched

Brandon

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10499
  • Mr. Accelerator is our friend; Mr. Brake is not.

  • Age: 42
  • Location: Joliet, IL
  • Last Login: Today at 01:01:27 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2019, 02:01:46 PM »

I never said we don't break a sweat. I just said it's business as usual, which very well may involve breaking a sweat, especially for those that snow blow or hand shovel. Relative to what happens in Chicago (and on most of the East Coast, for that matter), snow here causes very minimal disruption. What I mean by "business as usual" is no international airports brought to their knees, no extensive freight delays, no five-hour commutes, no nationwide media coverage, etc.
Freight delays, five-hour commutes, and airports brought to their knees are symptoms of infrastructure operating close to capacity.  One of the rationales for the ongoing O'Hare modernization plan is to effect a great reduction in weather delays (80% is the number I recall) by replacing the six intersecting runways with six east-west runways and two diagonal runways.  To the extent that utilization so near capacity is a sign of robust economic growth, snow-related crises can be seen as a good problem for Chicago to have.  Conversely, upstate New York being able to dig itself out quickly after a two-foot snowfall does not necessarily speak favorably of the economic health of the region.

That's an interesting take that I'll be digesting for a while.
I tend to think that Chicago very well could have infrastructure for handling snow equal or superior to what we have in Upstate NY. They've simply chosen not to invest as much into such, because they don't see the overall volume and recurrence of snow that we see. Their ill-preparedness for large snowfall is magnified by their transportation system already operating at or near capacity. The Twin Cities and Montreal are two examples of metro areas that handle much more annual snowfall than Chicago, and do so much more effectively than Chicago, and I don't think it can be argued that they have an excess of infrastructure capacity or are in decline economically.

I'll tell you what's done here for snow.  The City of Chicago has a fleet of over 270 salt trucks with plows, over 20 smaller plows for alleys and the like, and can attach plow blades to over 200 city-owned garbage trucks.  IDOT District 1 (which, IMHO, is the weakest link) attaches plows and salt spreaders to their dump trucks, as does ISTHA (which has 196 of them).  My own city (Joliet) has 34 of these trucks specifically to plow the streets and spread salt.  During events like the Groundhog Day Blizzard of 2011, they contracted private plow operators to aid in plowing the streets quickly.
Logged
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

Illinois: America's own banana republic.

Free HK.  F the PRC.

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5187
  • Last Login: Today at 09:07:32 AM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2019, 02:06:05 PM »

I bet, given the costs of dealing with snow (snow/ice operations), work hours lost and property damage from it, that the U.S. has spent more on costs related to snow than damage caused by earthquakes or wildfires.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5894
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:12:14 PM
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2019, 02:14:10 PM »

I bet, given the costs of dealing with snow (snow/ice operations), work hours lost and property damage from it, that the U.S. has spent more on costs related to snow than damage caused by earthquakes or wildfires.
Given that the northern 1/3 or even 1/2 of the country is subject to considerable snow and ice accumulations, that may well be the case.

I cited the current $220 million/year for snow and ice removal for VDOT, that is over a billion in 5 years, and for a state that has heavy amounts of show in the western part and moderate amounts in the eastern part.  That does not include locality spending, and does not include work hours lost and property damage to vehicles in accidents.

The northern tier states get far heavier snows, and plenty of ice storms as well.
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com
On the Plains of Hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to rest, and resting died.

Mark68

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 429
  • Location: Parker, CO
  • Last Login: December 06, 2019, 07:14:47 PM
    • My Travels over the years
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2019, 02:59:21 PM »

You can't be safe from extreme weather.

ΑΚ, WA, ID, MT, WY, ND, SD, MN, IA, WI, MI, IL, IN, OH, PA, NJ, NY, VT, NH, ME, MA, CT, RI: Snow due to latitude
WV, UT, western half of CO, parts of NV, AZ, and NM: Snow due to elevation
DE, VA, DC, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, TX: Hurricanes
CA, OR: Earthquakes
The other parts of NV, AZ, and NM: Extreme heat
NE, KS, OK, MO, AR, TN, KY, eastern half of CO: Tornadoes

This covers everything except Hawaii, which is a different part of the world that just happens to belong to the same country.

I would add ALL of CO as snow due to latitude, and elevation (not just the western half). Maybe the far southeastern corner doesn't have as much snow due to (wait for it...) lower latitude & elevation, but it is a threat every winter. Of course, they can get rather extreme with the heat there (just look at summer daily temperatures for Springfield, La Junta, Lamar...even Pueblo).

OR, NV, AZ & WA definitely have the threat of earthquakes (although this isn't weather). By the way, so do MO, TN, AR & IL due to the New Madrid Fault.

You failed to mention TX, OK, KS with the extreme heat (often accompanied by humidity).

WA also has a threat from volcanoes (as do OR & northern CA, to a somewhat lesser extent).

HI has to deal with volcanoes (at least on the Big Island) and tsunamis (any earthquake in the Pacific Basin, even thousands of miles away, can be destructive). WA, OR, & CA may have to deal with tsunamis whose origins can be both near and far (Crescent City, CA received significant damage in 1964 from a tsunami spawned by the Good Friday quake off the Alaska coast).

Not to mention the potential for ice storms in the Midwest, South, and East...

There is literally nowhere to go if you want to avoid any and all threats from Mother Nature.
Logged
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."~Yogi Berra

Max Rockatansky

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 9869
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Route 9, Sector 26
  • Last Login: Today at 03:31:59 PM
    • Gribblenation
Re: What’s your breaking point for moving from where you live?
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2019, 03:18:27 PM »

^^^^

Aside from western Arizona along the Colorado River I’ve never observed a ton of earthquake activity in Arizona.  Interestingly volcanism is probably a higher risk factor given there is a hot spot under the Colorado Plateau moving east from the San Francisco Peaks.  Said hot spot is thought to been responsible for much of the tribal movement off the Plateau before Spanish colonization.

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.