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Author Topic: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions  (Read 500 times)

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Which state transportation agencies have the most amount of variation between how their internal divisions design and maintain roads? Here in North Carolina, across DOT divisions, everything is very uniform with only a few minute differences. However some places like Florida seem to have a noticeable amount of variation between FDOT divisions in how roads are designed and maintained.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 06:20:58 AM »

Illinois. Nine DOT districts and the Tollway (ISTHA).  You'd swear there are ten different DOTs within the state at times.

District 1, Schaumburg
Used brown gantries in the 1980s/90s with full height signs a la California: https://goo.gl/maps/vNMmcrvrx6KSRvtb8 & https://goo.gl/maps/s2Vuh3XyfksqdHky9 (yes, that is button copy)
Historically has used mileposts like this: https://goo.gl/maps/6sNm2TmdzvNkizvb9
Now being replaced with ones like this: https://goo.gl/maps/cxcrh67xAVzKNWc69
Two-lane reflectorization patterns: https://goo.gl/maps/ywGpExSoiKM2atfGA https://goo.gl/maps/wLuqNsuB95MWEf6P9
District 2, Dixon
Posts curve advisory speeds like this: https://goo.gl/maps/2yPc8hmaMXKjeFqp9
District 3, Ottawa
D1/D3 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/kPGvjtzYRBj1aThh8
D3/D5 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/xnxCVud9vD6zrdLn9
Perfected the center-mounted Clearview tab: https://goo.gl/maps/mikYpKy6eYShDhct6
District 4, Peoria
Uses FYAs extensively: https://goo.gl/maps/42BRKPj4QDhbWQnJ8
Uses next exit signage like this in urban areas (Peoria): https://goo.gl/maps/n4mqEP3Ry9XcnT9Y9
District 5, Paris
Seems to have no clue to to plow/de-ice a road in the winter.
A preponderance of older signage with center-mounted tabs: https://goo.gl/maps/XMnLWbmbkraE18om7
District 6, Springfield
Uses the yellow border on signals more often than the other districts: https://goo.gl/maps/v1kLXvGgHwaSxjm37 https://goo.gl/maps/YagZL8XkAabav4DW6
Has three of the four interstate business loops in the state.
District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white
District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6
Used the brown gantries quite a bit, but differently than D1: https://goo.gl/maps/Kfuzoyny6YmwXePf9
District 9, Carbondale
https://goo.gl/maps/as9WnLpX18hnhBnd7
A lack of side-mounted reflectors (acting more southern than northern): https://goo.gl/maps/KdYuPELzZqb6hFoB8
Illinois State Toll Highway Authority
Mileposting (every 1/4 mile): https://goo.gl/maps/BATM86DYyXT6ZV8N8
Readily adopted APL signage: https://goo.gl/maps/B28HjF9LsiwmkagM8 & https://goo.gl/maps/GxnAHmt7gVNgjVYQ7
Striping (3:3 ratio): https://goo.gl/maps/3Hceft5ZWpq5ivHT9
First "smart" road in Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/4hFiBTaQajgf61g78
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 08:54:41 AM »

Instead of using welcome signs for knowing when I cross a state line, I use changes in the pavement.

SM-G965U
Missouri mile markers only appear on expressways and appear every 0.2 miles, while most other states go by every mile and don't include info like route number and direction.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 09:01:19 AM by ozarkman417 »
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 09:23:47 AM »

The one thing I can think of regarding Michigan is that the University district uses intermediate control cities along I-94 in Jackson and Washtenaw counties from non-freeways (using Marshall, Jackson, and Ann Arbor instead of Detroit (which is still used for EB 94 east of A2) and Chicago; US-23 and US-127 still use Detroit and Chicago)
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 09:37:48 AM »

Caltrans tends to vary quite a bit regarding maintenance from district to district.  District 6 seems to come up often as probably the best or one of the better districts for maintenance standards.  The rabbit hole with Caltrans is pretty deep and probably best referred to the California thread on the Pacific Southwest board. 

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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 01:37:31 PM »



I think you missed the point of the OP.  It's not between state DOTs, but within state DOTs.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 01:47:59 PM »

In Hawaii, the most noticeable difference among its DOT's four districts is that the Kauai district has the best signage in the state, including but not limited to the strongest metric signage. Its county counterpart similarly has the best signage among the four counties with county-maintained roads.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2019, 04:24:10 PM »

For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2019, 06:25:11 PM »

Illinois. Nine DOT districts and the Tollway (ISTHA).  You'd swear there are ten different DOTs within the state at times.

District 1, Schaumburg
Used brown gantries in the 1980s/90s with full height signs a la California: https://goo.gl/maps/vNMmcrvrx6KSRvtb8 & https://goo.gl/maps/s2Vuh3XyfksqdHky9 (yes, that is button copy)
Historically has used mileposts like this: https://goo.gl/maps/6sNm2TmdzvNkizvb9
Now being replaced with ones like this: https://goo.gl/maps/cxcrh67xAVzKNWc69
Two-lane reflectorization patterns: https://goo.gl/maps/ywGpExSoiKM2atfGA https://goo.gl/maps/wLuqNsuB95MWEf6P9
District 2, Dixon
Posts curve advisory speeds like this: https://goo.gl/maps/2yPc8hmaMXKjeFqp9
District 3, Ottawa
D1/D3 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/kPGvjtzYRBj1aThh8
D3/D5 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/xnxCVud9vD6zrdLn9
Perfected the center-mounted Clearview tab: https://goo.gl/maps/mikYpKy6eYShDhct6
District 4, Peoria
Uses FYAs extensively: https://goo.gl/maps/42BRKPj4QDhbWQnJ8
Uses next exit signage like this in urban areas (Peoria): https://goo.gl/maps/n4mqEP3Ry9XcnT9Y9
District 5, Paris
Seems to have no clue to to plow/de-ice a road in the winter.
A preponderance of older signage with center-mounted tabs: https://goo.gl/maps/XMnLWbmbkraE18om7
District 6, Springfield
Uses the yellow border on signals more often than the other districts: https://goo.gl/maps/v1kLXvGgHwaSxjm37 https://goo.gl/maps/YagZL8XkAabav4DW6
Has three of the four interstate business loops in the state.
District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white
District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6
Used the brown gantries quite a bit, but differently than D1: https://goo.gl/maps/Kfuzoyny6YmwXePf9
District 9, Carbondale
https://goo.gl/maps/as9WnLpX18hnhBnd7
A lack of side-mounted reflectors (acting more southern than northern): https://goo.gl/maps/KdYuPELzZqb6hFoB8
Illinois State Toll Highway Authority
Mileposting (every 1/4 mile): https://goo.gl/maps/BATM86DYyXT6ZV8N8
Readily adopted APL signage: https://goo.gl/maps/B28HjF9LsiwmkagM8 & https://goo.gl/maps/GxnAHmt7gVNgjVYQ7
Striping (3:3 ratio): https://goo.gl/maps/3Hceft5ZWpq5ivHT9
First "smart" road in Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/4hFiBTaQajgf61g78
Having lived within D1 (and around ISTHA), D4, D5, and now D9...

This list is OK...the adoption of the FYA really stands out in D4

D9 choosing to use “Interstate 57” as a Control for I-24 West, instead of either Marion (Termination point @ I-57) or St Louis (used previously in Kentucky...does get 1 mention approaching the termination @ I-57) is odd. Especially since I-24 East gets the “typical” Primary/Secondary Control setup of Nashville/Metropolis then Paducah

D9 also seems to omit “Directional” Banners on Route Shields more frequently than others

I will give D9 credit for the use of the SPUI and DDI Interchange designs for sequential Interchanges along I-57 in Marion, at IL 13 and The Hill Ave, South to North

D1 and ISTHA using *Directional* Suburbs and the states of Indiana, Wisconsin, and Iowa as Controls is also a bit unique

Nothing really stood out “different” about D5 while I lived there, signage, signal, or pavement wise. I believe Indianapolis is used as a Control along I-72 East...but that just makes me wonder more why D9 won’t use St Louis (or Marion) as a Control for I-24
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 06:39:37 PM by ilpt4u »
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2019, 06:30:35 PM »

In Kentucky, there really isn't any difference in maintenance or design between the districts. The real differences are in signage. Districts 4, 8, and 12 still use circles for three-digit routes instead of ovals or ellipses. District 12 had still been using circles for four-digit routes until recently, but unfortunately, they are using more wide markers for them -- and also US 460 markers. I prefer square markers with narrower fonts than the wide markers.

West Virginia is pretty uniform across the state, although a couple of places will sign county routes with tiny circular markers not much wider than the posts they're mounted on.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 11:51:39 AM »

For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.
District 2 also put exit numbers on US-6 and OH-2 on their freeway portions (until this year, OH-2 exit numbers stopped at the Erie/Ottawa county line)
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 12:16:05 PM »

In Hawaii, the most noticeable difference among its DOT's four districts is that the Kauai district has the best signage in the state, including but not limited to the strongest metric signage. Its county counterpart similarly has the best signage among the four counties with county-maintained roads.

Having been on all four islands over the summer I can generally agree about Kauai. But I found the signage along the Big Island (I'm guessing it'd be Hawaii district?) to be pretty strong as well. There were mile markers with metric measurements on them. There was a consistent use of elevation signage (in both feet and meters) and big green guide signs at the junctions of roadways throughout the island. The signs were the typical size one would find at an interstate off-ramp. Along the Hawaii Belt Road there seemed to be a consistent control city setup with Hilo, Honokaa, Waimea, Kailua and Volcano.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 12:29:03 PM »

District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6
Used the brown gantries quite a bit, but differently than D1: https://goo.gl/maps/Kfuzoyny6YmwXePf9

D8 was also the one not using stop bar or far left signals, which made them non-compliant with Illinois' MUTCD due to having only one set of left arrows.  Having searched GSV, it appears someone made an effort to fix most of those.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2019, 09:30:39 PM »

For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.

District 9 (South Central) signs a lot of things as being 1/3 of a mile away which is something I don't see in the rest of the state.

District 7 (West Central including Dayton) allows much more unusual bridge designs and interchange finishing than surrounding districts.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2019, 11:49:55 PM »



District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white

I think that is the new IDOT standard, and will be appearing throughout the state.  I thought I just saw it somewhere in District 3, but Streetview does not appear to have it.

District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6[/quote]

District 5 uses these in Bloomington-Normal on I-55.  Streetview.

Additionally For District 1:
* Does not appear to use the postmile signs (example) much anymore, even in the remaining rural parts of the district.
* Much less use of the city/village boundary signs (example from D-3)
* Much uses 'ONLY' in almost all single movement turn lanes and fewer arrows. Compare this example from District 1 to this one from District 2
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2019, 12:27:29 AM »

In regard to Illinois DOT, it is worth noting that District 1 (Chicago) has its own signing manual.

Kansas has five districts, with no substantial differences among them in terms of signing or pavement quality.  Nearly all design, including all freeway guide signing, is handled out of KDOT HQ.  However, Northeast Kansas (containing the Kansas side of metro KC) is a "tail wagging the dog" district because of the size and complexity of its portion of the state highway system.  Measures that have made their first appearances in Kansas in this district include part-time bus use of the shoulder, ramp metering, noise walls, and nonstandard APL diagrammatic variants.

The districts that cover western Kansas are more likely to use square washers to bolt panel signs to posts, which helps spread wind load but does nothing for visual appearance.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2019, 12:42:01 AM »

District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white

I think that is the new IDOT standard, and will be appearing throughout the state.  I thought I just saw it somewhere in District 3, but Streetview does not appear to have it.
The only other Diagrammatic signs that ring a bell in IL for me are:

I-294 North/I-80 West, approaching their split/ISTHA: https://goo.gl/maps/NdQcJ5hyCreSEPJm6

I-355 South @ I-55/ISTHA: https://goo.gl/maps/jLfBNxY5tsouvu8j7

ISTHA kinda uses diagrammatic signs for the ORT tollbooth signs: https://goo.gl/maps/m4uJ3FsFH3DsNGs36

I-55 North, approaching the Southwest I-55/I-72 Interchange/D6: https://goo.gl/maps/ndhxCECvqRSnVJs77
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 12:49:54 AM by ilpt4u »
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2019, 06:33:44 PM »

For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.

District 8 (Cincinnati metro):
Posts a lot of exit gore signs and speed limit signs on a single breakaway signpost
Their exit tabs have much more spacing around them than in D7 (Dayton) and AFAIK the rest of western Ohio.
Blue distance markers in Cincinnati are every tenth of a mile instead of two tenths (though I think their use predates anywhere else in Ohio)
Every BGS gets a blue inventory plaque.

District 7:
District 7 (West Central including Dayton) allows much more unusual bridge designs and interchange finishing than surrounding districts.

I've wondered about this; didn't realize it's a D7 peculiarity. There are instances where two consecutive overpasses were replaced the same year on 75 but have completely different designs.

D7 has numerous exit gore signs that are either one Clearview-one FHWA numeral or missing their exit number. They seem to get taken out so often it's like they stopped caring.

D7 eradicated most of its bridge-mounted signs almost 15 years ago and replaced them with ground-mounted (even on 3+ lane carriageways). I think D8 has recently started replacing them with sign bridges. Maybe this was a change in state standards, but one was either very early or very late to the party.

(I think) District 1 along I-75 in has the only labeling of under/overpasses that I'm aware of.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2019, 06:40:56 PM »

In Texas, the Dallas district doesn't sign any rural 2-lane roads higher than 65mph, while the neighboring Tyler district signs them up to the state maximum of 75mph. It's very noticeable when crossing from Kaufman County to Van Zandt county on TX 243.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2019, 07:08:22 PM »

The title is a bit misleading.
Anyways, for Wisconsin I would say that the largest difference is the surface of road they use in different parts of the state. In Northern WI it's a darker pavement, and southern WI is usually lighter concrete.
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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2019, 10:04:25 AM »

The title is a bit misleading.


It's misleading? How so?

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Re: Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2019, 06:04:14 PM »

In Texas, the Dallas district doesn't sign any rural 2-lane roads higher than 65mph, while the neighboring Tyler district signs them up to the state maximum of 75mph. It's very noticeable when crossing from Kaufman County to Van Zandt county on TX 243.

I would attribute that observation to the environmental speed limits, which capped limits at 65 for 15 years, along with the lack of rural areas in which higher speeds are suitable for two-lane roads, however, the Dallas district also includes Navarro County, in which part of SH 22 has a speed limit of 75 with two lanes.
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