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Author Topic: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting  (Read 3605 times)

english si

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2019, 06:16:24 AM »

The Lincoln Highway deliberately avoided Chicago because they felt there was enough roads going there already and that they could act as feeders.

It's understandable that Chicago is a hub. But Northern Indiana has a pretty high density (due to Chicago). US12, US20, US6 and US30 all run parallel in Porter County less than 10 miles apart (with gaps of ~1 mile, ~4.5 miles and ~4.5 miles along IN49). OK, they do splay out a bit further east, but do they really need to be all separate? I-80 and I-90 aren't. And I-94 could surely carry (as free unlike the turnpike) US12 and US20 like it does with US6 further west.
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2019, 05:27:12 PM »

And I-94 could surely carry (as free unlike the turnpike) US12 and US20 like it does with US6 further west.
Tolls on ISTHA’s Jane Addams Tollway doesn’t stop US 51 from being put on the toll road.

Not typical, but there are Toll Road US Highway routings, beyond Toll Bridges/Tunnels
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2019, 05:43:11 PM »

And I-94 could surely carry (as free unlike the turnpike) US12 and US20 like it does with US6 further west.
Tolls on ISTHA’s Jane Addams Tollway doesn’t stop US 51 from being put on the toll road.

Not typical, but there are Toll Road US Highway routings, beyond Toll Bridges/Tunnels
US-301 in Delaware is a toll bypass of Middletown, and US-74 BVP in North Carolina is a toll bypass of Monroe and the developed US-74 strip, south of Charlotte.
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2019, 12:21:20 AM »

Do people actually use I-680 (I-880) to bypass Omaha? According to the Iowa DOT, the average traffic is only 6,400 vehicles per day.
I did it this year going eastbound toward Des Moines. In part, I wanted to go up I-680 to the Westroads Mall area for lunch, and in part I wanted to complete the loop for the first time rather than take familiar I-80. I wasn't convinced it was worth it as far as being the better route, notwithstanding the detour for food. Fortunately, I came through between flooding events along I-29.
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2019, 05:00:26 AM »

So when will the final report be posted here? I-880 in Iowa is now a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_880_(Iowa%29.
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2019, 09:08:50 AM »

The Lincoln Highway deliberately avoided Chicago because they felt there was enough roads going there already and that they could act as feeders.

It's understandable that Chicago is a hub. But Northern Indiana has a pretty high density (due to Chicago). US12, US20, US6 and US30 all run parallel in Porter County less than 10 miles apart (with gaps of ~1 mile, ~4.5 miles and ~4.5 miles along IN49). OK, they do splay out a bit further east, but do they really need to be all separate? I-80 and I-90 aren't. And I-94 could surely carry (as free unlike the turnpike) US12 and US20 like it does with US6 further west.

6 and 30 are already serving different communities as far west as Lake County.  The ones that are debatable are 12 and 20.  12 could be routed along 20 as far east as the IN 212 interchange, and then follow IN 212 back to its current routing.  You might be able to keep 6 on 80 a bit farther east, to IN 49. 
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2019, 09:33:27 AM »

The Lincoln Highway deliberately avoided Chicago because they felt there was enough roads going there already and that they could act as feeders.

It's understandable that Chicago is a hub. But Northern Indiana has a pretty high density (due to Chicago). US12, US20, US6 and US30 all run parallel in Porter County less than 10 miles apart (with gaps of ~1 mile, ~4.5 miles and ~4.5 miles along IN49). OK, they do splay out a bit further east, but do they really need to be all separate? I-80 and I-90 aren't. And I-94 could surely carry (as free unlike the turnpike) US12 and US20 like it does with US6 further west.

6 and 30 are already serving different communities as far west as Lake County.  The ones that are debatable are 12 and 20.  12 could be routed along 20 as far east as the IN 212 interchange, and then follow IN 212 back to its current routing.  You might be able to keep 6 on 80 a bit farther east, to IN 49. 

Just by looking at Google Maps, I think the thought of putting US 6 on the Indiana Toll Road is the reason why US 6 leaves I-80/94 at IN 51.  It would not make sense IMO to keep it on I-94 to IN 49 either.
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Konza

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2019, 12:46:11 PM »

The Lincoln Highway deliberately avoided Chicago because they felt there was enough roads going there already and that they could act as feeders.

It's understandable that Chicago is a hub. But Northern Indiana has a pretty high density (due to Chicago). US12, US20, US6 and US30 all run parallel in Porter County less than 10 miles apart (with gaps of ~1 mile, ~4.5 miles and ~4.5 miles along IN49). OK, they do splay out a bit further east, but do they really need to be all separate? I-80 and I-90 aren't. And I-94 could surely carry (as free unlike the turnpike) US12 and US20 like it does with US6 further west.

6 and 30 are already serving different communities as far west as Lake County.  The ones that are debatable are 12 and 20.  12 could be routed along 20 as far east as the IN 212 interchange, and then follow IN 212 back to its current routing.  You might be able to keep 6 on 80 a bit farther east, to IN 49. 

Just by looking at Google Maps, I think the thought of putting US 6 on the Indiana Toll Road is the reason why US 6 leaves I-80/94 at IN 51.  It would not make sense IMO to keep it on I-94 to IN 49 either.

US 6 used to follow Ridge Road from west of the state line through Munster, Highland, and Griffith all the way into Lake Station (which I believe used to be called East Gary).  When what is now called the Borman Expressway was built across the Calumet Region, US 6 was shifted onto it west of IN 51 (which, as you note, is approximately where the Borman or Tri-State Highway and the Indiana Toll Road cross).  Ridge Road was Business US 6 for a number of years.

Definitely agree that US 12 and US 20 could be co-routed at least as far east as Michigan City, but geez, US 12 is a nice drive west of there through the Dunes.
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cabiness42

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2019, 12:52:09 PM »

The Lincoln Highway deliberately avoided Chicago because they felt there was enough roads going there already and that they could act as feeders.

It's understandable that Chicago is a hub. But Northern Indiana has a pretty high density (due to Chicago). US12, US20, US6 and US30 all run parallel in Porter County less than 10 miles apart (with gaps of ~1 mile, ~4.5 miles and ~4.5 miles along IN49). OK, they do splay out a bit further east, but do they really need to be all separate? I-80 and I-90 aren't. And I-94 could surely carry (as free unlike the turnpike) US12 and US20 like it does with US6 further west.

6 and 30 are already serving different communities as far west as Lake County.  The ones that are debatable are 12 and 20.  12 could be routed along 20 as far east as the IN 212 interchange, and then follow IN 212 back to its current routing.  You might be able to keep 6 on 80 a bit farther east, to IN 49. 

Just by looking at Google Maps, I think the thought of putting US 6 on the Indiana Toll Road is the reason why US 6 leaves I-80/94 at IN 51.  It would not make sense IMO to keep it on I-94 to IN 49 either.

US 6 used to follow Ridge Road from west of the state line through Munster, Highland, and Griffith all the way into Lake Station (which I believe used to be called East Gary).  When what is now called the Borman Expressway was built across the Calumet Region, US 6 was shifted onto it west of IN 51 (which, as you note, is approximately where the Borman or Tri-State Highway and the Indiana Toll Road cross).  Ridge Road was Business US 6 for a number of years.

Definitely agree that US 12 and US 20 could be co-routed at least as far east as Michigan City, but geez, US 12 is a nice drive west of there through the Dunes.

US 6 actually left Ridge two blocks east of the state line, following Hohman north to 165th before turning west into Illinois.
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Alex

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2019, 01:23:01 PM »

So when will the final report be posted here? I-880 in Iowa is now a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_880_(Iowa%29.

See upthread:

This was just posted over @ TM:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/v3-app_crowdc/assets/b/ba/ba708eca603c86f1/000_USRN_Agenda_and_List_of_Applications__AM_St_Louis__MO-2019_%28nc%29.original.1570033411.pdf?1570033413

From the meeting notes:

Quote
Item No. 5 ‐ State: Iowa Route: I‐880 Action: Establishment of an Interstate Route between I‐29/I‐680 North Interchange in Pottwattamie County and I‐80/I‐680 Interchange in
Pottawattamie County.

Description: This request pertains to the establishment of Interstate 880, and the removal of the Interstate 680 route designations from the I‐29 and I‐680 North Interchange to the I‐680 and I‐80 Interchange in Pottawattamie County. This new Interstate route is being established to help avoid routing confusion during flooding events that have occurred recently in this area.

I created a quick page for it at Interstate Guide as well https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-880-ia/

Beltway

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2019, 03:44:34 PM »

Quote
Item No. 5 ‐ State: Iowa Route: I‐880 Action: Establishment of an Interstate Route between I‐29/I‐680 North Interchange in Pottwattamie County and I‐80/I‐680 Interchange in Pottawattamie County.
Description: This request pertains to the establishment of Interstate 880, and the removal of the Interstate 680 route designations from the I‐29 and I‐680 North Interchange to the I‐680 and I‐80 Interchange in Pottawattamie County. This new Interstate route is being established to help avoid routing confusion during flooding events that have occurred recently in this area.
I created a quick page for it at Interstate Guide as well https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-880-ia/
Thanks for the webpage!  I'm still not sure why they did this.  A flooding event is an emergency situation whereby temporary detour signs need to be posted to cover the area affected.  Standard routings should not IMO be changed for such a reason.

So now instead of having a I-680 alternate/bypass to I-80 thru the Omaha area, 3 different routes need to be followed.
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2019, 04:05:03 PM »

Well, this gives me a retroactive clinch. On a trip years ago, we used 29 south to 680 east to 80 east. With that route now having its own number, I've clinched it.
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2019, 05:03:21 PM »

Was there any other changes to interstate routes besides I-880?
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english si

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2019, 06:10:51 PM »

Was there any other changes to interstate routes besides I-880?
Minor relocations of both I-80 and I-29 onto parallel carriageways along their (now former) shared-section in Council Bluffs, and a 3.3 mile extension of I‐69‐E in Nueces County, TX.

It's all in the previously linked document:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/v3-app_crowdc/assets/b/ba/ba708eca603c86f1/000_USRN_Agenda_and_List_of_Applications__AM_St_Louis__MO-2019_%28nc%29.original.1570033411.pdf?1570033413
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sprjus4

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2019, 06:56:31 PM »

a 3.3 mile extension of I‐69‐E in Nueces County, TX.
The extension is simply paper work catching up, the route has been sign-posted as interstate for over a year after the project to upgrade the stretch to interstate standards was completed. Interestingly, they used "I-69" shields, not "I-69E" shields. This was also done on the segment of I-69E north of there, only plain "I-69" shields w/ no suffix.

I-69E / FM-2826 interchange in May 2018 - https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7397044,-97.699793,3a,37.5y,99.4h,72.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx-SHuDkcW5cdlV9AZ8U-bQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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english si

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2019, 03:51:03 AM »

simply paper work catching up
A lot of USRN actions are.

IIRC, Arkansas (I'm pretty sure it was them) submitted paperwork dealing with changes made over 50 years ago recently (within the last couple of years) because someone new took up the job at their end and realised it had never been done!
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2019, 08:29:58 AM »

Well, this gives me a retroactive clinch. On a trip years ago, we used 29 south to 680 east to 80 east. With that route now having its own number, I've clinched it.

Same here, rode on it in 2007 and again in 2015. #instaclinched

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #67 on: October 15, 2019, 05:50:05 PM »

IMHO Iowa should be waiting a few years until after construction is done before playing around with the numbering on the dual divided stretch of I-80 and I-29 in Council Bluffs. Or Iowa should just sign it as Local I-29/Local I-80 and Express I-29/I-80.  Switching the two puts a few new left exits on both routes.  Perhaps a couple single lane mainline segments as well?
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2019, 11:35:30 PM »

They have posted all the applications at https://route.transportation.org/committee-notices-actions-and-approvals/past-meetings/.

The new routing for US70 is posted on page 46 and 51 of this pdf.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 11:43:48 PM by mvak36 »
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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2019, 01:11:19 AM »

They have posted all the applications at https://route.transportation.org/committee-notices-actions-and-approvals/past-meetings/.

Wow @ the ARDOT guy being a stickler for formatting. :-D

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2019 meeting
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2019, 06:48:23 PM »

I love how the map in Florida's application is overlaid on a basemap that shows US 1 on the surface streets parallel to I-95.
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