Outrageous detours

[Max Rockatansky]

It seems entirely foreign to me that some states wouldn't consider county routes good enough for state- or US route detours. Do their county routes have no standards whatsoever?  Around here, anything county-maintained can handle through traffic, and serves at least some regional purpose, if only as a suburban collector/distributor. No dead ends, no bridges that can't handle large trucks, no narrow lanes, no anything else I can think of why they might not be up to par.

It's worth noting that detours do lead to more wear and tear on the roads they're on.  Some states might not want to pass that burden on.

And it really depends on what state or what locality is handling County Roads.  Out in Arizona and California for an example most of the rural County Highways aren't designed to handle heavy truck traffic.  The weight limits can be surprisingly low and the roads surprisingly narrow, single lanes aren't uncommon.  When CA 1 was isolated between Pfeiffer Canyon and Mud Creek the detour was on the single lane Forest Service maintained Nacimiento-Fergusson Road.  The damage a handful just a couple fuel trucks and 30 foot freight vehicles did while they were trying to get to Gorda was massive. 

[US 89]

It seems entirely foreign to me that some states wouldn't consider county routes good enough for state- or US route detours. Do their county routes have no standards whatsoever?  Around here, anything county-maintained can handle through traffic, and serves at least some regional purpose, if only as a suburban collector/distributor. No dead ends, no bridges that can't handle large trucks, no narrow lanes, no anything else I can think of why they might not be up to par.

It's worth noting that detours do lead to more wear and tear on the roads they're on.  Some states might not want to pass that burden on.

And it really depends on what state or what locality is handling County Roads.  Out in Arizona and California for an example most of the rural County Highways aren’t designed to handle heavy truck traffic.  The weight limits can be surprisingly low and the roads surprisingly narrow, single lanes aren’t uncommon.  When CA 1 was isolated between Pfeiffer Canyon and Mud Creek the detour was on the single lane Forest Service maintained Nacimiento-Fergusson Road.  The damage a handful just a couple fuel trucks and 30 foot freight vehicles did while they were trying to get to Gorda was massive.

This isn't unique to small county roads, either. As I mentioned above, the detour to I-15 through the Virgin River Gorge area is US 93 to Nevada 319 and Utah 56. SR 56 in particular has an AADT of around 1000 and definitely was not designed to carry the full volume of I-15 for two weeks. The road damage was big enough that the Salt Lake Tribune even wrote an article about it - of course, they mostly refer to it as SR 58.   

[kphoger]

webny99:  Have you considered factors such as bridge weight limits and overpass clearances?  A road's capacity to carry highway traffic, especially trucks, is determined by more than just GSV screenshots.

[MNHighwayMan]

Yikes. I don't think anything gravel would be signed as a county route in most rural areas I'm familiar with (Minnesota, North Dakota, PA, Ohio) and certainly not here in New York*.

Lots of gravel county roads in Minnesota. I dunno what you're talking about.



In any event, county roads (paved ones, anyway) get used as detours in MN all the time. I even had to use one this summer because part of MN-16 was closed for a bridge reconstruction. Hell, sometimes even minor city streets get used, as this detour from July 2018 shows. That is White Pine St in Emily, which there happens to be GSV of. It was temporarily turned into a one-way street for the detour. I'm sure residents loved it.

[hbelkins]

For several months, the road I travel to work every day was closed due to a washed-out culvert that was eventually replaced by a bridge.

The signed detour was KY 11 and KY 30, roads of similar class and construction. Added about 11 miles and 15-20 minutes to the trip.

Local traffic took KY 2016, Primrose Lane (county maintained), and KY 2017. Much shorter than the all-state-route marked detour, but the county route was very narrow and had some hairpin curves not suitable for big trucks. The county had to sign the road to prohibit through trucks (they actually had to get my advice on warning vs. regulatory signage colors) and got the state to assist with funding for building up the shoulders because of the increased traffic load. There were spots on that road where two cars could not safely pass without one stopping, or pulling onto a tiny shoulder to let the other one by.

States generally try to sign detours on roads that are of equal quality as the one that's closed. Sometimes that means not using some state routes and using others that may be longer. Local traffic will always find its way around, but for the most part, signed detours are meant for through travelers who won't know the local shortcuts.

(It's why you see a lot of "GPS Routing Not Recommended" signage going up, too.)

[webny99]

webny99:  Have you considered factors such as bridge weight limits and overpass clearances?  A road's capacity to carry highway traffic, especially trucks, is determined by more than just GSV screenshots.

Yes, I am quite aware that not all county routes are suitable for detours; however, I don't understand why a state would use a one-size-fits-all approach, and disallow the use of all county routes when there are plenty that could potentially be used.

States generally try to sign detours on roads that are of equal quality as the one that's closed. Sometimes that means not using some state routes and using others that may be longer. Local traffic will always find its way around, but for the most part, signed detours are meant for through travelers who won't know the local shortcuts.

See, I dislike that, because I don't want to waste a whole bunch of time on a ridiculous routing. I'd much rather be given the shortest detour route possible. If that means there needs to be both a truck and a car detour, so be it.

[hbelkins]

^^^

Not just trucks, but passenger vehicles operated by drivers unfamiliar with the area. On my daily commute detour, I had a passing familiarity with the route, having traveled it in the past. Someone on a one-off trip between Beattyville and Jackson who stumbled off the two-lane route with a center stripe and onto a road that's barely a lane and a half wide, with hairpin curves, probably wouldn't be as comfortable driving it as they would going a little farther on a road of equal quality to what's being detoured around.

And, there's the issue of cost. Most county roads here aren't paved to a significant depth. Lots of traffic, and heavier vehicles, will damage the road, and the counties have limited budgets to absorb that type of cost. Sometimes the state can reimburse for damage, but it doesn't always happen. It's easier for the state to pay if a state-maintained detour route gets damaged by heavier traffic volumes and bigger vehicles.

[Flint1979]

It seems entirely foreign to me that some states wouldn't consider county routes good enough for state- or US route detours. Do their county routes have no standards whatsoever?  Around here, anything county-maintained can handle through traffic, and serves at least some regional purpose, if only as a suburban collector/distributor. No dead ends, no bridges that can't handle large trucks, no narrow lanes, no anything else I can think of why they might not be up to par.

In Michigan at least a county road can become a dirt road in areas. I know of one in Roscommon County that does that.

[PHLBOS]

During the mid-1980s when the Mount Hope Bridge (RI 114) was closed for a several month overhaul, getting from Portsmouth (south side of the bridge-RI 24/114 interchange) to Bristol (north side of the bridge-Roger Williams University) involved driving 12 miles on RI/MA 24 (15 min.), 13 miles along I-195 (16 min.) & just over 9 miles along MA/RI 136 (20 min.) for a total of 34 miles (51 min.).  Note: listed travel times are from Google Maps under normal conditions.  Actual travel times during the project were likely longer.

In contrast, with the bridge open; it's a 3.7 mile trip along RI 114 & the bridge that typically took about 7 minutes (using the RI 24/114 interchange & Roger Williams University's entrance as reference points)

Adding insult to injury, Roger Williams' (then College) Architecture Division was still renting out space at a Portsmouth school building for their design studios.  The opening of the on-site Architecture building was still about a year away at the time.  As a result of the bridge closure, the college had to rent/dispatch additional busses to transport students that didn't have cars to/from the Bristol campus to the Portsmouth studios.

Needless to say, the bridge project taking place prior to the new building opening on-campus ticked off the head of the school's Architecture Division at the time.  When I learned of it, I was still attending at the time in my sophomore year; I thought, that parallel span that was to be built as part of the doomed I-895 project could've come in handy.

[GaryV]

It seems entirely foreign to me that some states wouldn't consider county routes good enough for state- or US route detours. Do their county routes have no standards whatsoever?  Around here, anything county-maintained can handle through traffic, and serves at least some regional purpose, if only as a suburban collector/distributor. No dead ends, no bridges that can't handle large trucks, no narrow lanes, no anything else I can think of why they might not be up to par.

In Michigan at least a county road can become a dirt road in areas. I know of one in Roscommon County that does that.

There are many gravel county roads marked on the Michigan Highway map.  Some in metro Detroit.

[jbnv]

Not a signed detour, but one forced on me while driving for ridesharing by Baton Rouge police after an LSU football game: A trip of about a half-mile northwest from Tiger Stadium to a passenger's home became a 1.5-hour ordeal to the east, back northeast, back out southwest because the route I was trying to take was closed to traffic, and finally a wide arc around the campus. I was not happy, and the passenger (who got assessed a hefty fee) was thankfully too tired/drunk to complain.

[ErmineNotyours]

This was an emergency situation rather than construction so it's a little different, but still... Back in 2007, I-5 in Chehalis, WA flooded out and had to be closed for a while. The official detour from Portland to Seattle was I-84 to US 97 to I-82 to I-90, over 300 miles (roughly doubling the normal distance, worse, of course, if you were heading to or from somewhere in between Seattle and Portland). Making matters worse, the flooding happened during the winter, so the official detour route through the Columbia River Gorge and back over Snoqualmie Pass likely would have had some weather issues as well.

I was working at the Seattle distribution center for 7-Eleven back then.  We also supply the Portland stores, which take a second hop at a sub DC there.  For this detour we had to hire a second shift of drivers because they couldn't make it there and back in one night.

[michravera]

webny99:  Have you considered factors such as bridge weight limits and overpass clearances?  A road's capacity to carry highway traffic, especially trucks, is determined by more than just GSV screenshots.

Yes, I am quite aware that not all county routes are suitable for detours; however, I don't understand why a state would use a one-size-fits-all approach, and disallow the use of all county routes when there are plenty that could potentially be used.

See, I dislike that, because I don't want to waste a whole bunch of time on a ridiculous routing. I'd much rather be given the shortest detour route possible. If that means there needs to be both a truck and a car detour, so be it.

I have only been in New Jersey on roads once back over 40 years ago, but maybe the various government road departments are not as interconnected as they are say in California or Texas. The NJDoT probably has great information on the specs on the NJSRs, but not always on all of the various county- and city-maintained roads. I am pretty sure that CalTrans knows the weight and kingpin-to-axle limit on State Street in Santa Barbara (and probably on Queensbury Way in Rancho Cordova). If they needed to route some traffic off of US-101 or US-50 respectively, they would know that State Street could probably handle it and Queensbury probably couldn't. In New Jersey? Well, if someone who works for NJDoT is on the forum, they could answer.

[GaryV]

When I was a kid we were somewhere on vacation.  It may have been KY, but I don't remember now.  Numbers made up, because I certainly don't remember them.

We were driving on Route 1, when we got to a detour and had to follow Route 2.  After a while there was a detour for Route 2 onto Route 3.

But our original detour for Route 1 continued on Route 2, and eventually took us back to Route 1.  Evidently the situation that caused the Route 2 detour happened further down the road.

[cu2010]

When a section of NY56 washed out in 2005, the official 19-mile detour (for a six mile stretch) involved a pair of town roads... neither of which were designed to handle truck traffic. The state painted centerlines and upgraded a few signs but otherwise used the roads as-is.

However, the south end of the detour involved a hairpin turn to get back onto NY56, practically impossible for trucks. As a result, trucks were directed to use NY11B to Malone then south on NY30... a detour of 138 miles. A few truckers ignored it and took the signed detour anyways... which resulted in at least one accident at said hairpin turn due to it being unsuitable for trucks.

[kphoger]

webny99:  Have you considered factors such as bridge weight limits and overpass clearances?  A road's capacity to carry highway traffic, especially trucks, is determined by more than just GSV screenshots.

Yes, I am quite aware that not all county routes are suitable for detours; however, I don't understand why a state would use a one-size-fits-all approach, and disallow the use of all county routes when there are plenty that could potentially be used.

See, I dislike that, because I don't want to waste a whole bunch of time on a ridiculous routing. I'd much rather be given the shortest detour route possible. If that means there needs to be both a truck and a car detour, so be it.

I have only been in New Jersey on roads once back over 40 years ago, but maybe the various government road departments are not as interconnected as they are say in California or Texas. The NJDoT probably has great information on the specs on the NJSRs, but not always on all of the various county- and city-maintained roads. I am pretty sure that CalTrans knows the weight and kingpin-to-axle limit on State Street in Santa Barbara (and probably on Queensbury Way in Rancho Cordova). If they needed to route some traffic off of US-101 or US-50 respectively, they would know that State Street could probably handle it and Queensbury probably couldn't. In New Jersey? Well, if someone who works for NJDoT is on the forum, they could answer.

Excellent point.  How could a state allow routing detours along county roads if they do not have any data to tell them if those roads are suitable or not?

[hbelkins]

Excellent point.  How could a state allow routing detours along county roads if they do not have any data to tell them if those roads are suitable or not?

In Kentucky's case, the state maintains a bridge weight limit database and inspects bridges on county roads and city streets. We also evaluate requests for special state funding (discretionary funds, etc.) for county and city roads. So here, at least, state personnel have a working familiarity with non-state routes and can evaluate their suitability for use as a detour.

[jeffandnicole]

Well here's an interesting detour.  A state route detour includes going thru the back of a private business's parking lot!

https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/uploads/comm/news/details/comm_np_20191122_115322_2019-11-22_Route_42_Bridges_Beam_erection.pdf

At the top of the 2nd page, (Route 41/Hurffville Road southbound ramp to Route 42 northbound detour).  First off, they screwed up the title.  it should be "...southbound ramp to Route 42 southbound detour", not Route 42 northbound.

Then, the directions take you to Superior Way, which in itself is a municipal road, mostly leading to a NJDOT maintenance yard.

Then, the detour will take motorists thru a parking lot for a Friendly's restaurant

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Superior+Way,+Deptford+Township,+NJ+08096/@39.8293725,-75.0904516,216m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6ce20c9c918ad:0x8cf86079aab26c27!8m2!3d39.8309078!4d-75.0901853

After that, motorists should turn left onto Deptford Center Road (in of itself another municipal street).

Then back onto NJ 41 North, then go the wrong way for several miles, then make a U-turn at Creek Road interchange to get to 42 North.

[Max Rockatansky]

Well here's an interesting detour.  A state route detour includes going thru the back of a private business's parking lot!

https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/uploads/comm/news/details/comm_np_20191122_115322_2019-11-22_Route_42_Bridges_Beam_erection.pdf

At the top of the 2nd page, (Route 41/Hurffville Road southbound ramp to Route 42 northbound detour).  First off, they screwed up the title.  it should be "...southbound ramp to Route 42 southbound detour", not Route 42 northbound.

Then, the directions take you to Superior Way, which in itself is a municipal road, mostly leading to a NJDOT maintenance yard.

Then, the detour will take motorists thru a parking lot for a Friendly's restaurant

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Superior+Way,+Deptford+Township,+NJ+08096/@39.8293725,-75.0904516,216m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6ce20c9c918ad:0x8cf86079aab26c27!8m2!3d39.8309078!4d-75.0901853

After that, motorists should turn left onto Deptford Center Road (in of itself another municipal street).

Then back onto NJ 41 North, then go the wrong way for several miles, then make a U-turn at Creek Road interchange to get to 42 North.

Damn, I'm just surprised Friendly's is still in business.  I haven't seen one of them in ages. 

[TheGrassGuy]

Not a construction detour, but I once heard of a New Yorker who went out of his way to take I-78, I-81, I-70, and I-270 just to avoid turnpike traffic to DC.

[Max Rockatansky]

Not a construction detour, but I once heard of a New Yorker who went out of his way to take I-78, I-81, I-70, and I-270 just to avoid turnpike traffic to DC.

That wasn't uncommon to do for folks in Connecticut, I know I've done it.  It was more out of the fact that I didn't want to city gridlock for hours and pay for it too. 

[mrsman]

Not a construction detour, but I once heard of a New Yorker who went out of his way to take I-78, I-81, I-70, and I-270 just to avoid turnpike traffic to DC.

The "Dr. Gridlock" column that used to be in the Washington Post recommended a similar route from NY to DC, especially as a bypass for the busy Thanksgiving and Christmas travel seasons.  The two main ways recommended were 270 to US 15 towards Harrisburg and then I-81 and I-78.  For those in the eastern parts of the area, they may go to Baltimore and then head up 83 to Harrisburg and then I-81 and I-78.

Taking 270 to 70 to 81 (via Hagerstown) seems like overkill, and probably was instead the first option I mentioned, just forgetting to use US 15.

This (DC to NY via Harrisburg) isn't worthwhile during regular times, but to avoid the really big crushes of holiday and summer weekend travel,  the detour may be justified.

[Max Rockatansky]

When I-5 over Tejon Pass closed today the announced detour was over CA 58 and CA 14.  Its not exactly a crazy distance out of the way but it "should" on a good day add a good hour in clear traffic.

[Bobby5280]

I-25 over Raton Pass is currently a mess. The exit at the summit of Raton Pass (at the CO/NM state line) is being rebuilt. All I-25 traffic is being diverted onto the exit ramps so they can completely re-build the main lanes at that point. The Southbound side doesn't seem so bad. But the Northbound side is a pretty crooked, narrow arrangement. It cuts in front of the RV Park and Raton Pass Camp and Cafe (which is currently closed). The ramp leaving I-25 is closely lined with lots of lane marking tabs and other orange colored warning stuff. But the signage runs out abruptly when you reach the old bridge crossing over I-25 (the bridge with the New Mexico border signs on it). I was driving on this at night and briefly thought I took a wrong turn. I was relieved when the ramp merged back into I-25.

[Super Mateo]

In this area, 159th Street (US 6) was closed for a block immediately west of Cicero (IL 50).  The official detour, for a single block closure, was five miles long.  I'm not sure there were many better options, though.  It used Harlem, 167th, and Cicero.  Oak Park would have been a decent option; Central, however, can't handle that volume of traffic.

On eastbound US 6, the detour started back at Harlem (IL 43).  Just out of curiosity, I completely ignored the closure warnings just to see the scene over there.  In turned out that everyone else was ignoring them, too.  There was a ton of traffic cutting through the parking lot within the 159th/Cicero/Metra rail triangle.  The neighborhood to the south had one-way  blocks and turn restrictions to stop traffic from cutting through; that didn't work, either.

People are going to find their own way, regardless of what's posted on the signs.