On the future of rest areas

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)

[jeffandnicole]

Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)

No.  Because if you have large gaps between rest areas, that means the area is sparely populated. Where would you get the numerous employees needed for those travel plazas that want to drive 40 or 50 miles at minimum each way for minimal pay?

Also, if you are in an unpopulated area, chances are the volume of traffic wouldn't justify opening up a travel plaza with multiple services.

Most of the Turnpikes opened in an era before interstates, and before numerous options existed for food and fuel at the limited number of exits along their roadways.  Toll roads opening today generally aren't building service plazas, and instead promote businesses off the exits.  In fact, some toll roads have reduced the number of service plazas available (PA Turnpike comes to mind), although they have remodeled and expanded the offerings at others.

[Brandon]

Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)

Yes.  There was no really good reason to prohibit the commercialization of rest areas in the first place.

[hbelkins]

Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)

Yes.  There was no really good reason to prohibit the commercialization of rest areas in the first place.

Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)

But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.

[MNHighwayMan]

Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)

But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.

The prices at both Iowa and Minnesota rest areas are quite reasonable.

Furthermore, god forbid we help people with a major disability.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

We had this thread before because the government wanted to open this idea up. And I'll repeat my point from that thread that most existing rest areas were not designed with major expansion in mind.

[Beltway]

Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)

Yes.  There was no really good reason to prohibit the commercialization of rest areas in the first place.

It was part of the deal to build federally-funded toll-free Interstate highways, and to not interfere with commercial businesses at the interchanges.

[Max Rockatansky]

No, why would states who don't operate plazas want to pick up the burden of having them and contracting them out?  I-5 in California generally proves the point that businesses will find a way to reach places where there are people in remote areas. 

[Rothman]

The commercialization of rest areas is now frowned upon as it is looked upon as competing with local businesses.  NY got into some warm water with its Taste of NY stores, but somehow got out of it.

(personal opinion expressed)

[Beltway]

The commercialization of rest areas is now frowned upon as it is looked upon as competing with local businesses.  NY got into some warm water with its Taste of NY stores, but somehow got out of it.

The early Interstate era had relatively sparse services along the interchanges, back when the highways were still relatively new.  Today it is massive, most rural Interstates have tons of businesses all along the route.

[RobbieL2415]

IMO rest areas should only be service plazas if they're located in an area without services for miles around and they would enhance driver safety.

I think most rest areas will become supercharger stations anyways.

[SP Cook]

Beltway has the correct answer.  It was part of the deal to foster private enterprise at the exits and not to grant a quasi-monopoly, or at least an advantage, to a insider contractor.

That good idea still applies.  With this caveat.  In places where for a significant mileage, say 60 miles, has no exits where a motorist can easily exit into an uncomplicated easy return exit with sufficient services, where the exit traffic does not contribute to over-capacity of the side road, a service area could be an alternative to other fixes for that issue. 

[GaryV]

Beltway has the correct answer.  It was part of the deal to foster private enterprise at the exits and not to grant a quasi-monopoly, or at least an advantage, to a insider contractor.

That good idea still applies.  With this caveat.  In places where for a significant mileage, say 60 miles, has no exits where a motorist can easily exit into an uncomplicated easy return exit with sufficient services, where the exit traffic does not contribute to over-capacity of the side road, a service area could be an alternative to other fixes for that issue.

So if the free marketplace does not think there will be enough customers along 60 miles of road to open a business, who will run the business at the service area?  Will the State supplement the income, give them incredible tax incentives, or what?  Cuz you know if a private enterprise can't make money, the State sure isn't going to make money.

[hbelkins]

Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)

But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.

The prices at both Iowa and Minnesota rest areas are quite reasonable.

Furthermore, god forbid we help people with a major disability.

I'm not against helping them, obviously, but paying $2.50 for a 20-oz. pop that I can get a lot cheaper elsewhere? Nope.

IMO rest areas should only be service plazas if they're located in an area without services for miles around and they would enhance driver safety.

I think most rest areas will become supercharger stations anyways.

The private sector is already getting into that. Sheetz is installing Tesla charging stations at a lot of its locations.

[jeffandnicole]

Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)

But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.

The prices at both Iowa and Minnesota rest areas are quite reasonable.

Furthermore, god forbid we help people with a major disability.

I'm not against helping them, obviously, but paying $2.50 for a 20-oz. pop that I can get a lot cheaper elsewhere? Nope.

Many convenience stores are selling them at $1.99 - $2.09 now, so at $2.50 it's not really that much higher.  My experience along I-95 shows that, in many cases, it was actually cheaper at $2 (with tax included) than getting a bottle off the highway, where tax would've added another 12 - 14 cents to the price.

IMO rest areas should only be service plazas if they're located in an area without services for miles around and they would enhance driver safety.

I think most rest areas will become supercharger stations anyways.

The private sector is already getting into that. Sheetz is installing Tesla charging stations at a lot of its locations.

To be technical, Tesla rents space from these stores.  For examples near me: They are adding about a dozen stations at a mall off of NJ 42, and have added a few chargers to a Wawa off Exit 18 of I-295 in NJ.  They look for locations just off highways that are convenient to Telsa travelers to pull off for a few minutes to charge up while giving the travelers the opportunity to hit the bathroom or grab a meal/snack.  Since these parking spots exist usually to satisfy regulations regarding the number of spots needed based on the size of the building, the spots generally go unused anyway.  The stores, and the town/county, is usually fine going along with the addition of the charging stations, and brings in a little extra income to the companies as well.

[SP Cook]

So if the free marketplace does not think there will be enough customers along 60 miles of road to open a business, who will run the business at the service area?  Will the State supplement the income, give them incredible tax incentives, or what?  Cuz you know if a private enterprise can't make money, the State sure isn't going to make money.

Actually I was talking about just the opposite.  I really don't think there are places, at least east of the Mississippi, where there are not services for as much as 60 miles.  I was thinking of places where the prosperity and growth are such that there are not good rural/suburban exits where one can do an easy off/easy on without getting tied up in, and tying up, local traffic on the side road.

[TEG24601]

I like the idea of travel plazas, although that would require a law change, unless you connect them to an external roadway, and just call it an exit.


One thing I would like to see, is Rest Areas universally getting Charging Stations.  Most of them already have power, so it should be a doddle to either contract with a known company for services, or have the DOT purchase and install their own, and provide charging for free, or a nominal fee.  It would easily help to close the gaps in current charging coverage, especially fast charging, and help to reduce range anxiety, making the vehicles more appealing.

[GCrites]

The commercialization of rest areas is now frowned upon as it is looked upon as competing with local businesses.  NY got into some warm water with its Taste of NY stores, but somehow got out of it.

The early Interstate era had relatively sparse services along the interchanges, back when the highways were still relatively new.  Today it is massive, most rural Interstates have tons of businesses all along the route.

If the Interstate (or the Turnpike/U.S. route routing it was assigned to) was completed before 1980. Stretches that opened later have had a much lower success rate in attracting businesses along the route. This goes new for non-Interstate limited access portions as well.

[Beltway]

The early Interstate era had relatively sparse services along the interchanges, back when the highways were still relatively new.  Today it is massive, most rural Interstates have tons of businesses all along the route.

If the Interstate (or the Turnpike/U.S. route routing it was assigned to) was completed before 1980. Stretches that opened later have had a much lower success rate in attracting businesses along the route. This goes new for non-Interstate limited access portions as well.

98% of the mainline Interstate mileage was completed by 1980.

Some highway that was completed 10 or 20 years ago would have had less time overall to attract businesses along the route.

[GCrites]

When the early Interstates and other limited-access highways opened they didn't need more than a few years to attract significant business investment. They didn't sit there for 15-20 years with nothing or one thing at the exits that were at least remotely close to people or a major crossroad like today's new highways do. Obviously a lot of those old stone-clad motels, Googie gas stations, Stuckey's, and sit-down restaurants are gone now so it's harder to tell.

[Rothman]

I don't find GCrites' argument to hold much water.  I am thinking of I-79, which my family drove multiple times from Morgantown to Charleston.  It has definitely built up over time, at least on the northern half.

[GCrites]

While there are notable exceptions, I'm confident that an analysis of lane-miles vs. economic development dollars adjusted for inflation would highly favor road expansions performed before 1980 on a nationwide basis.

[sprjus4]

The newest portion of I-95 in Virginia, an upgrade of previous 4-lane non-limited-access US-301 between Emporia and Petersburg was completed in the 1980s, and despite most of the crossroads widening out to 4-lanes at the interchanges in anticipation for growth, only the interchange at Exit 33 - VA-602 - has seen any real developments. The rest are empty, surrounded by farmland and forest as they were when it was built.

[J3ebrules]

I haven't really thought about which "side"  I'm on for this, but as a born and bred New Jerseyan, the whole idea of non-commercialized rest areas is so foreign to me. Whenever I travel out of state and invariably end up looking for a rest area, I'm always shocked by the existence of these tiny little buildings with maybe a vending machine off of a major highway. Maybe I'm jus spoiled. But I almost feel... safer at a big, commercialized, populated service plaza than those little pull offs I stopped at in Virginia, for instance. And while we laugh about the cost of Turnpike gas in Jersey, at least shmucks like me who push it down to fumes sometimes are not likely to run out of gas on the turnpike, whereas I can see that being an issue on giant interstates through huge rural areas.

[Rothman]

While there are notable exceptions, I'm confident that an analysis of lane-miles vs. economic development dollars adjusted for inflation would highly favor road expansions performed before 1980 on a nationwide basis.

You made the assertion; show us the data.