Coronavirus pandemic

[kphoger]

Of Mexico's 32 states, 31 remain on the "Maximum Risk" level of shutdowns for the month of June.



It's possible there's a very gradual flattening of the curve in Mexico but, if so, it's just beginning to show and it's very slight.

[Max Rockatansky]

California cases are trending higher even as people are filling the streets to protest.  At this rate in a few weeks California will have more daily cases than New York had at its peak.  California is quickly losing control of the situation.

Got a citation that shows causality between the protests and the case count going up?  That would be some pretty fast test results after weekend protesting...just saying...   About 55k of the 113k confirmed cases are still from Los Angeles County.  The entire top five counties are in urbanized Southern California Counties:

2.  Riverside approximately 7,700
3.  San Diego approximately 7,500
4.  Orange approximately 6,500
5.  San Bernardino approximately 5,200

From there the Bay Area Counties start coming with Alameda in 6th at approximately 3,500 cases.   As far as I know even with the current case numbers there haven't been any reports of overwhelmed medical facilities.  Sierra County instituted some additional emergency procedures after it had its first four confirmed cases.   

[tradephoric]

Got a citation that shows causality between the protests and the case count going up?  That would be some pretty fast test results after weekend protesting...just saying...   

But isn't it worrisome that the case count is trending up even before the protests are taken into account?  I didn't suggest that the confirmed cases included the protesters.  You just wouldn't think having thousands gather in the middle of a pandemic while your state is seeing increased daily cases would be a good idea.

[Max Rockatansky]

Got a citation that shows causality between the protests and the case count going up?  That would be some pretty fast test results after weekend protesting...just saying...   

But isn't it worrisome that the case count is trending up even before the protests are taken into account?  I didn't suggest that the confirmed cases included the protesters.  You just wouldn't think having thousands gather in the middle of a pandemic while your state is seeing increased daily cases would be a good idea.

Perhaps, but that isn't something exclusive to California alone as other states are having protests as well.  It probably won't be clear for quite some time what effect large protests will have on case numbers.  Interestingly in that photo you linked it does show the majority of people wearing masks.  In a way that might be in a way be an informal test of their effectiveness in a mass gathering. 

But going back to what you did say.  It really wasn't clear if you meant the protests, case numbers, or hospitalizations were out of control.  An increase in cases doesn't mean that a measure of control hasn't been lost (Again the photo shows people with masks) or that hospitals will suddenly become overwhelmed/overburdened. 

Regarding the protests people were assembling in large numbers before the death of George Floyd.  Those protests were oriented towards the actual COVID-19 restrictions and they occurred all over the state for months.  To that end while they certainly aren't the same scale of protest I've yet to see any evidence that those mass gatherings were the start of a COVID-19 case spike.  Again, it's way too early to draw causality between protests and case numbers. 

[hbelkins]

How many of these price increases are due to the money supply being increased by the 'stimulus'?  The amount of money that was 'printed' by that reduced the value of all of the money that was already in circulation in proportion to how much that 'printing' increased the supply - that is the very definition of 'inflation'.

Mike

Reuters (April 16): Americans are spending coronavirus checks on rent and groceries

Two weeks ago last Friday, after most stimulus payments had either been delivered by direct deposit, paper check, or debit card (more on that later), I was in the traditional 1985-model non-supercenter Walmart in Jackson, Ky. They did not have one single solitary television in stock. Not even any displays. At least a month prior, they had been well-stocked. I think I know where a bunch of stimulus money went, given that TVs had sold out.

And speaking of the physical distribution of the money, I remember reading about a controversy over the inclusion of the president's name on the checks. Why, then, were payments being made via debit card? What was the determining factor in who got a paper check vs. who got a debit card? Did the Treasury opt to send debit cards to keep from having to put the president's name on the checks?

[kphoger]

I know my dad spent the stimulus check on a new enamel-wear pot.

Frankly, I don't trust people to honest self-report where they spent their check.  They probably think they're more likely to get a second check if they lie and say they spent it on rent and utilities than if they spent it on a new TV.  Of course, that's just the cynical part of me.  The other part of me believes that most people did indeed spend it on rent and utilities, considering how many people were laid off or furloughed from work.

[hbelkins]

I know my dad spent the stimulus check on a new enamel-wear pot.

Frankly, I don't trust people to honest self-report where they spent their check.  They probably think they're more likely to get a second check if they lie and say they spent it on rent and utilities than if they spent it on a new TV.  Of course, that's just the cynical part of me.  The other part of me believes that most people did indeed spend it on rent and utilities, considering how many people were laid off or furloughed from work.

I spent mine on taxes (local property taxes) and car repairs.

[SEWIGuy]

The whole point of the stimulus checks was to stimulate the economy by spending money.  So if people went out and spent it on televisions, enamel-wear pots and car repairs, that was the entire idea.

That is why they were sent to everyone under a certain income level - and not just those who had financial problems.

But my understanding is that more people are saving instead of spending, and that is negating part of the reason for the stimulus.  That could be why the IRS is sending debit cards to "qualified individuals without bank information on file"  whose last tax returns were filed to IRS service centers in Andover, Mass., and Austin, Texas."

https://money.com/stimulus-check-payment-debit-card/

It's harder to save it when it is on a debit card.

[oscar]

And speaking of the physical distribution of the money, I remember reading about a controversy over the inclusion of the president's name on the checks. Why, then, were payments being made via debit card? What was the determining factor in who got a paper check vs. who got a debit card? Did the Treasury opt to send debit cards to keep from having to put the president's name on the checks?

I had expected a direct deposit to my checking account. Several Federal agencies have my direct deposit information. But I got a paper check instead.

Since Treasury is led by an Administration loyalist, I don't buy that as a reason for debit card (or direct deposit).

I spent mine on taxes (local property taxes) and car repairs.

I just saved mine, to partially offset the hit taken on my retirement savings. Not nearly as much hurt as other people have endured, but my economic impact payment was put to good use anyway.

[kalvado]

And speaking of the physical distribution of the money, I remember reading about a controversy over the inclusion of the president's name on the checks. Why, then, were payments being made via debit card? What was the determining factor in who got a paper check vs. who got a debit card? Did the Treasury opt to send debit cards to keep from having to put the president's name on the checks?

We got our stimulus via direct deposit, no signature. But a letter with Trump's signature came in today - very similar to this picture. Check or not...
https://i1.wp.com/xperimentalhamid.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/IRS-Notice-Letter-1444-sample-01.png

[Max Rockatansky]

I ended up getting my stimulus via a check.  I spent about $1,000 of it on a new mountain bike I've needed for years.  Considering the money went to a local bike shop my wife and I supported it didn't leave me with any hang ups about it.  Personally I never considered saving the money but planned for an expense which would have come out of pocket otherwise. 

I got one of those letters yesterday.  My wife wants to hang it up in the garage (along with masks she made6,, I'm not so keen on the idea.  Personally I don't want to hang onto memorabilia from a pandemic.

[Scott5114]

I also had my income tax return go through at the same time as the stimulus check. I saved mine for want of anything important to spend the money on. That and I had the fortune to be told to stay home from work (casinos were closed), but was still being paid by my employer. I had no way of knowing whether that would continue to be the case, and wanted to be prepared.

I may end up investing it in a business venture some of my friends cooked up while we were closed.

[J N Winkler]

I had expected a direct deposit to my checking account. Several Federal agencies have my direct deposit information. But I got a paper check instead.

I got a paper check too, with "Economic Impact Payment - President Donald J. Trump" printed in the memo area.

Since Treasury is led by an Administration loyalist, I don't buy that as a reason for debit card (or direct deposit).

I buy the economic-policy justification for the debit cards that SEWIGuy links to.  But I think the mailing was very ineptly executed, as evidenced by all of the media advisories warning people not to mistake the debit cards for credit card offers.

We got our stimulus via direct deposit, no signature. But a letter with Trump's signature came in today - very similar to this picture. Check or not...

https://i1.wp.com/xperimentalhamid.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/IRS-Notice-Letter-1444-sample-01.png

I received this as well, mailed separately from the check--it arrived about two weeks ago.  While the letter (including Trump's signature) is clearly a standard form letter, the amount and the method of delivery in the fourth paragraph is custom-printed (in ink, presumably using an inkjet printer; the rest is in toner).  The PNG linked above shows "direct debit" while mine reads "check/debit card."

"EN-SP" in the form number is clearly a language combination code (English on front, Spanish on reverse:  in Spanish, the delivery method designation on mine is "cheque/tarjeta de débito").  I wonder what other language combinations were used as part of this mailing.

[webny99]

We got our stimulus via direct deposit, no signature. But a letter with Trump's signature came in today - very similar to this picture. Check or not...

https://i1.wp.com/xperimentalhamid.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/IRS-Notice-Letter-1444-sample-01.png

I received this as well, mailed separately from the check--it arrived about two weeks ago.

Interesting, I just received the letter yesterday, also separate from the check.
I got a paper check, while my parents got a direct deposit.

[GaryV]

We got a check, with Trump's name printed on it, not a signature.

We haven't received our tax refund for 2019 yet.  We had to file on paper because of a complexity with my HSA that is still partially funded by a former employer.

And since we had to pay on our 2018 return, they won't have our direct deposit info on file until 2019 is processed.  Hence the check.

[oscar]

We got a check, with Trump's name printed on it, not a signature.

Since Trump isn't authorized to sign Treasury checks. Nor is Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin, though his signature -- much more legible than Trump's -- appears on at least the latest $1, $5, $10, and $20 bills. I think the economic impact checks have the printed signature of the current Treasurer of the United States, Jovita Carranza.

[Duke87]

I find the whole question of "what did you spend your stimulus check on?" to be nonsensical. We got our money direct deposited into our bank account. Pretty much everything we spend any money on ultimately comes out of the same bank account. Asking what we spent the stimulus money on is a little bit like asking which glass on someone's table the milk from a particular cow at the dairy farm ended up in - that's not how it works, you can't map a particular output to a particular input. Dollars in the bank account don't have individual identities.

If I were asked a multiple choice question about this I'd probably say we spent it on our mortgage since that is our largest single expense. But that's not a meaningful answer. I can't give a meaningful answer.

[J N Winkler]

I think the economic impact checks have the printed signature of the current Treasurer of the United States, Jovita Carranza.

No.  I think the signature on your check (if you received one) depends on where you live in the country.  Mine bore the signature of Vona S. Robinson, identified (in fine print) as a Regional Disbursing Officer.

[Max Rockatansky]

I find the whole question of "what did you spend your stimulus check on?" to be nonsensical. We got our money direct deposited into our bank account. Pretty much everything we spend any money on ultimately comes out of the same bank account. Asking what we spent the stimulus money on is a little bit like asking which glass on someone's table the milk from a particular cow at the dairy farm ended up in - that's not how it works, you can't map a particular output to a particular input. Dollars in the bank account don't have individual identities.

If I were asked a multiple choice question about this I'd probably say we spent it on our mortgage since that is our largest single expense. But that's not a meaningful answer. I can't give a meaningful answer.

Put it this way in my case then.  If a $1,200 stimulus check didn't show up then I wasn't buying a $1,000 dollar bike until my three paycheck month in July.  There is total causation with the stimulus check bumping my purchase up. 

[webny99]

I find the whole question of "what did you spend your stimulus check on?" to be nonsensical.
...
If I were asked a multiple choice question about this I'd probably say we spent it on our mortgage since that is our largest single expense. But that's not a meaningful answer. I can't give a meaningful answer.

Perhaps a more meaningful question is "Did you use or save your stimulus check?"
I haven't spent money on anything that I wouldn't have anyways, so my answer would be Save.

Now, I could list out how I spent the next $1200 in the immediate aftermath of receiving the check, say I "used" the check on that, and then say I "saved" my next $1200 of regular income. And indeed, that would be completely nonsensical. That's why use or save is the better question to be asking.

[RobbieL2415]

How many of these price increases are due to the money supply being increased by the 'stimulus'?  The amount of money that was 'printed' by that reduced the value of all of the money that was already in circulation in proportion to how much that 'printing' increased the supply - that is the very definition of 'inflation'.

Mike

Reuters (April 16): Americans are spending coronavirus checks on rent and groceries

Two weeks ago last Friday, after most stimulus payments had either been delivered by direct deposit, paper check, or debit card (more on that later), I was in the traditional 1985-model non-supercenter Walmart in Jackson, Ky. They did not have one single solitary television in stock. Not even any displays. At least a month prior, they had been well-stocked. I think I know where a bunch of stimulus money went, given that TVs had sold out.

And speaking of the physical distribution of the money, I remember reading about a controversy over the inclusion of the president's name on the checks. Why, then, were payments being made via debit card? What was the determining factor in who got a paper check vs. who got a debit card? Did the Treasury opt to send debit cards to keep from having to put the president's name on the checks?

The President cannot legally sign Treasury checks, so they had his name put on the "For" line.
Its probably for the best that the President can't sign those checks.

[vdeane]

The whole point of the stimulus checks was to stimulate the economy by spending money.  So if people went out and spent it on televisions, enamel-wear pots and car repairs, that was the entire idea.

That is why they were sent to everyone under a certain income level - and not just those who had financial problems.

But my understanding is that more people are saving instead of spending, and that is negating part of the reason for the stimulus.  That could be why the IRS is sending debit cards to "qualified individuals without bank information on file"  whose last tax returns were filed to IRS service centers in Andover, Mass., and Austin, Texas."

https://money.com/stimulus-check-payment-debit-card/

It's harder to save it when it is on a debit card.

You can still use it for things you'd buy anyways and save the money you would have normally spent.

[Scott5114]

We got a check, with Trump's name printed on it, not a signature.

Since Trump isn't authorized to sign Treasury checks. Nor is Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin, though his signature -- much more legible than Trump's -- appears on at least the latest $1, $5, $10, and $20 bills. I think the economic impact checks have the printed signature of the current Treasurer of the United States, Jovita Carranza.

There is no current Treasurer of the United States; Carranza resigned to take over the Small Business Administration, succeeding the WWE's Linda McMahon. The position of Treasurer is vacant about as often as it's not; it is a political position whose job duties include overseeing the agencies that produce paper money and coins, though each of these have a director and are staffed with civil service employees who actually do the work. Its only real importance is furnishing a signature to be printed on the left half of paper money. (I am surprised that a President hasn't ordered his own signature to appear there instead.)

Steven Mnuchin's signature looks like that of a five-year-old. Not that his predecessor Jeop J. Jaul Jacob J. Lew had one that was any better.

It's harder to save it when it is on a debit card.

You can still use it for things you'd buy anyways and save the money you would have normally spent.

I'd imagine a bank could do an ACH pull to transfer the money off of it into a real account.

I despise getting prepaid debit cards, as it's always a pain to get the random loose change off of it when the card is nearly exhausted. Asking a cashier to charge 39¢ on one debit card and the remainder on another is mortifyingly assholish. I usually try to do this at a self-checkout when it's not busy. Of course, the other option is to simply forfeit the unused change value and discard it, but that's what the card issuer wants...

[mgk920]

Since Trump isn't authorized to sign Treasury checks. Nor is Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin, though his signature -- much more legible than Trump's -- appears on at least the latest $1, $5, $10, and $20 bills. I think the economic impact checks have the printed signature of the current Treasurer of the United States, Jovita Carranza.

There is no current Treasurer of the United States; Carranza resigned to take over the Small Business Administration, succeeding the WWE's Linda McMahon. The position of Treasurer is vacant about as often as it's not; it is a political position whose job duties include overseeing the agencies that produce paper money and coins, though each of these have a director and are staffed with civil service employees who actually do the work. Its only real importance is furnishing a signature to be printed on the left half of paper money. (I am surprised that a President hasn't ordered his own signature to appear there instead.)

Steven Mnuchin's signature looks like that of a five-year-old. Not that his predecessor Jeop J. Jaul Jacob J. Lew had one that was any better.

Mnuchin's legal signature looks like a simple horizontal line with a couple of slight waves in it, so he had to print it out longhand for the banknotes.

As for me, because I owed the last few tax cycles (F***ING Unaffordable Care Act!!!    ), a paper check showed up in my mailbox a few weeks ago.  I simply deposited it to be spent on recurring bills, as I would any other funds that are in that account.

Mike

[webny99]

Steven Mnuchin's signature looks like that of a five-year-old. Not that his predecessor Jeop J. Jaul Jacob J. Lew had one that was any better.

I thought messy signatures were a sign of importance. The messier it gets, the higher up you probably are, or at least think you are.

I despise getting prepaid debit cards, as it's always a pain to get the random loose change off of it when the card is nearly exhausted. Asking a cashier to charge 39¢ on one debit card and the remainder on another is mortifyingly assholish. I usually try to do this at a self-checkout when it's not busy. Of course, the other option is to simply forfeit the unused change value and discard it, but that's what the card issuer wants...

Hmm. I can't say I've ever used 2 debit cards for the same purchase, but I have used 2 gift cards on various occasions, and thought nothing of it. I guess I'm not sure what the difference is (if any) from a cashier standpoint, but I've never felt like it was that terrible or embarrassing of a thing to do. It happens.