Coronavirus pandemic

[wxfree]

Having a civil war over the way you choose to die is the ultimate in stupidity, if we'd rather do that than work together to figure out a way to survive.  I don't think we're at that point of divisiveness just yet.

On another topic, America is a special place.  We put a man on the moon.  We led the world through some of the greatest turmoil and the greatest prosperity in human history.  That kind of ambition and determination serves us well when we use it to help the world become better.  It serves us poorly when we look at our grandparents' accomplishment and believe that prideful arrogance is our birthright.  Americans, though, are not special.  We're no less likely to die from this virus than any other humans.  Actually, we're proving to be quite good at it.

[RobbieL2415]

The best way to clear up any confusion would be to acknowledge in these executive orders that they cannot preclude basic Constitutional rights.

[hotdogPi]

The best way to clear up any confusion would be to acknowledge in these executive orders that they cannot preclude basic Constitutional rights.

Church services can be held online.

Freedom of assembly may be an issue, but when your actions cause the virus to spread, you're definitely not helping your cause. In addition, most of the "X people or fewer" restrictions are not enforced by law; it's mostly happening due to people not wanting to get the virus, and the few major exceptions go on the news, and everyone gets mad at the group.

State border checkpoints need to go.

[Max Rockatansky]

I went to the gym up until the day it closed.  It progressively got more and more quiet the week or so up to when Fresno issues it's order.  I have a home gym that I set up and do all my cardio outside anyways, so in that sense I was as affected as most.  I'll be back the first day the gym reopens, I can't match the diversity of strength exercises at home forever.

Amen.

I maintained my routine right up to closure as well.  (March 16 would otherwise have been the first day of my usual Monday-Wednesday-Friday routine.)  The week before, there were signs management was getting antsy about COVID-19.  On March 11 we got an email telling us they were going to step up cleaning of contact surfaces; I was hoping this meant they would be more consistent about ensuring they had towels at the front desk to hand you when you checked in.  That day I got one, and they had a member of staff on the floor changing out the towels next to the bottles of sanitizer.  (Every machine has a holster for a sanitizer spray bottle and towel, but not all have a bottle at any given time, and you don't usually get dirty looks for not spraying and wiping as long as you drape your towel over skin contact areas and dry-wipe the handles.)  The next day I went--March 13, a Friday--it was back to normal, with no towel at the desk for me.

I plan to be back as soon as they reopen.  I didn't try to set up a gym at home--no room--and as a result I have lost strength and muscle tone, though I have been walking to stay active and have not gained any weight since my diet pretty much prevents it.

Here there wasn't so many dirty looks and extra cleaning but rather mostly just frustration but the regulars at the gym over what we probably all knew what was coming.  I had the home gym set up from equipment I had already on hand, it was just a matter of breaking it all out in the garage.  I used to train people as a side gig so coming up with at-home weight resistance training solutions wasn't too much of a hassle (except for installing my pull up bar with these high doors in the house).  I have a pretty solid routine for biceps, triceps, and shoulders.  I don't have a flat bench so I've been substituting in about 400-600 pushups for a chest work out.  Ab exercises are kind of easy to do with the medicine balls I have in addition to an older shower chair that I found outside.  I don't really have much in the way for back at the moment aside from cranking my rower up to the highest resistance and staying on it for 20 minutes/2,500 meters.  I do a lot of lunges but leg exercises never have been really all that necessary with how much distance running I do.

Regardless, it will be good to get back into the gym and start to diversify again.  I can't imagine the gym will be very busy for the first couple weeks after it opens.  I did step up from 30 miles running a week up to 50 interim to substitute for my hikes that I'm missing out on.  I did pick up a new mountain bike which I started training with last night.

[Duke87]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

Wasn't close to half siding with the British anyways?  That war essentially was British citizens committing treason.

As I recall being taught in school, people were about evenly split three ways - between being loyal to the king ("Tories"), being in favor of independence ("Patriots"), and not really having a strong opinion one way or the other.

It should also be noted that even this was only within the 13 colonies that had formed the continental congress and subsequently put the Declaration of Independence together. The British had 7 other colonies in North America in 1776 (5 of them are now part of Canada, the other 2 became part of the US later with the annexation of Florida), which remained generally loyal to the crown and didn't much care to get involved in any rebellion.

So in response to the assertion that "if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British", I'd say that that's rather consistent with history - at the time of the actual American Revolution, most people were on the side of the British. This is why Canada exists and still has the Queen of England as their head of state.

[webny99]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

It is truly baffling to me that this whole pandemic has somehow "compromised freedom". In case you hadn't heard, this virus is not unique to the US. It's affecting the entire world. Being the ultimate "free country" doesn't mean we can magically handle a novel, unprecedented pandemic in a different, more "free" way than other countries. It was an absolute must to lock down when we did. It was almost too late as it was. Give me a break with all the contrarian stuff about freedoms and liberties being infringed.

From the perspective of an outsider, I always kind of laugh when I see American's touting their freedoms.

Americans aren't really any more or less "free" than any other citizen in any other democracy.

For example.  South Korea has both a constitution and a bill or rights, and their citizens are afforded the same general liberties as any American is.

Quote broken, but I agree. America is just another country, it's not super "special" or exceptional". Some people need to chill out with America exceptionalism.

Yikes, FTFY.

America is special because of the basis on which it was founded, and the way it has been uniquely prospered as a nation in the years since. However, as far as the basics of democracy, especially as pertains to personal freedom, there are no fundamental differences from other democracies in places like Canada, Europe, and Australasia.

(The actual operations of the branches of government, the election process, and so on, are of course a very different story, but that's irrelevant to the current conversation.)

[TheGrassGuy]

OK, so maybe Trump isn't THAT insane...
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494231-trump-i-disagree-strongly-over-ga-governors-decision-to-reopen-economy?amp=1&amp_recirculation=1

[Revive 755]

Your rights end when exercising them injures or kills another person, which is fairly universally accepted.

And I am not going to eventually get this virus on a trip to restock my stash of groceries or performing an essential job?

Ending lockdowns now will create a spike in the number of cases, which you would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand not to understand.

Considering the number of cases still turning up even with the lockdowns being in place for a month now. . .

Nothing says you cannot stay in on your own.

[LM117]

Apparently, this shit is causing strokes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently, this shit is causing strokes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html

Since when is 30s and 40s young adults?

Also, the article doesn't really go into any detail if these individuals were healthy or had conditions that might increase the risk of a stroke.  It would be one thing if trained athletes were having stroked versus someone of the same age who smokes and is overweight. 

[Tonytone]

Apparently, this shit is causing strokes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html

Since when is 30s and 40s young adults?

Also, the article doesn't really go into any detail if these individuals were healthy or had conditions that might increase the risk of a stroke.  It would be one thing if trained athletes were having stroked versus someone of the same age who smokes and is overweight.

I guess since 50 is the new 30. People are living till 80-100 so that means new age groups.


Also the article says they "had no prior health history" . Idk if that means they couldn't access files or that they were health adults. However Delaware has been letting it known if the person who passed had underlying health issues.


iPhone

[jakeroot]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that we're as close to another Civil War as we've ever been...and if more people get desperate facing life-and-death (as both sides are claiming, and there is some validity to that claim on both sides)...

I just wonder how the split would go. It wouldn't be as simple as Mason-Dixon line. East and West coasts against flyover states, or something more complex?

Team Blue: WA, OR, CA (some inland places in all three states will unofficially be on Team Red), parts of MN, WI, MN, and PA unofficially (it's easier to stay than to secede, and all four states are split politically), all of DC, MD, DE, NY, NJ, and New England (NH doesn't want to be surrounded by the enemy on all sides), and IL and VA will split in two. If Canada is on Team Blue, both sides have entirely contiguous territory. (Note that NM and CO would be on Team Red for the same reason that NH is on Team Blue – they don't want to be surrounded by the enemy.)

If secession seriously came up as something that might happen, I think you'd see WA, OR, and maybe some areas of CA become their own country. BC would likely be in for the party as well.

I only say this because Cascadia has been a serious discussion before, and this would be the perfect scenario that might cause this breaking-off.

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently, this shit is causing strokes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html

Since when is 30s and 40s young adults?

Also, the article doesn't really go into any detail if these individuals were healthy or had conditions that might increase the risk of a stroke.  It would be one thing if trained athletes were having stroked versus someone of the same age who smokes and is overweight.

I guess since 50 is the new 30. People are living till 80-100 so that means new age groups.


Also the article says they "had no prior health history" . Idk if that means they couldn't access files or that they were health adults. However Delaware has been letting it known if the person who passed had underlying health issues.


iPhone

I don't feel like a "young adult"  at close to forty.  I noticed that's a thing these days, people will tell me that I'm still "so young."   How is the case when statistically speaking my lifespan is about half over?  Nobody would have told my Dad and Grand Fathers that they were "young"  at 30 much less 40. 

Anyways, the "no health"  doesn't mean that all the individuals were in fact healthy.  Lots of people who lead unhealthy lives don't see the doctor regularly or if ever.  I've noticed that there has been an tendency to not really elaborate on really critical details in these articles that could be useful.  The way the article is written sounds as though it's meant to spook non-elderly readers into thinking that they could have sudden strokes.  That may be the case but it would be nice to have more substantive detail than just a couple paragraphs. 

[LM117]

NC governor is announcing a reopening plan today.

https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/governor-cooper-expected-to-announce-reopening-plan-thursday-afternoon/19067407/

OK, so maybe Trump isn't THAT insane...
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494231-trump-i-disagree-strongly-over-ga-governors-decision-to-reopen-economy?amp=1&amp_recirculation=1

Even a broken president clock is right twice a day.

[TheGrassGuy]

Ending lockdowns now will create a spike in the number of cases, which you would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand not to understand.

Considering the number of cases still turning up even with the lockdowns being in place for a month now. . .

Nothing says you cannot stay in on your own.

Too true. If you live in an area where lockdowns are being relaxed, but you object to it and are still concerned that you might contract Coronavirus, just keep staying inside. When lockdowns are added, they're saying "everybody must stay inside". But when lockdowns are removed, they're NOT saying "everybody must go outside". I have a feeling that even in those areas, much of the lockdown will continue, but it'll be self-enforced.

[NWI_Irish96]

Ending lockdowns now will create a spike in the number of cases, which you would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand not to understand.

Considering the number of cases still turning up even with the lockdowns being in place for a month now. . .

Nothing says you cannot stay in on your own.

Too true. If you live in an area where lockdowns are being relaxed, but you object to it and are still concerned that you might contract Coronavirus, just keep staying inside. When lockdowns are added, they're saying "everybody must stay inside". But when lockdowns are removed, they're NOT saying "everybody must go outside". I have a feeling that even in those areas, much of the lockdown will continue, but it'll be self-enforced.

You know who "must go outside?"  The health care workers, who have to increase/prolong their exposure risk because some idiot governor wants to be popular and free everybody.  The health care workers don't get to choose to stay home.

[SEWIGuy]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

It is truly baffling to me that this whole pandemic has somehow "compromised freedom". In case you hadn't heard, this virus is not unique to the US. It's affecting the entire world. Being the ultimate "free country" doesn't mean we can magically handle a novel, unprecedented pandemic in a different, more "free" way than other countries. It was an absolute must to lock down when we did. It was almost too late as it was. Give me a break with all the contrarian stuff about freedoms and liberties being infringed.

From the perspective of an outsider, I always kind of laugh when I see American's touting their freedoms.

Americans aren't really any more or less "free" than any other citizen in any other democracy.

For example.  South Korea has both a constitution and a bill or rights, and their citizens are afforded the same general liberties as any American is.

Quote broken, but I agree. America is just another country, it's not super "special" or exceptional". Some people need to chill out with America exceptionalism.

Yikes, FTFY.

America is special because of the basis on which it was founded, and the way it has been uniquely prospered as a nation in the years since.

Sorry, but what is special about how the United States was founded?  Revolts against distant rule have happened for time eternal.  The continue to happen.  And will happen well into the future.

America would have prospered either way.  But instead of being colonies of a government ruled by white, male landowners in Britain, it became a governement of white, male, landowners here.  The British were not some tyranical regime.  Look at Canada, Australia and New Zealand.  They've all been just fine both during and after British rule.

Also, it shouldn't be lost on people that the UK banned slavery about 30 years before the American Civil War.

Don't get me wrong.  It's worked out just fine.  But a more critical understanding of history would see that it wasn't some unique revolution. 

[hotdogPi]

Look at Canada, Australia and New Zealand.  They've all been just fine both during and after British rule.

Those weren't wars. There are some good examples of independence via war, but not those three.

[1995hoo]

Look at Canada, Australia and New Zealand.  They've all been just fine both during and after British rule.

Those weren't wars. There are some good examples of independence via war, but not those three.

That was SEWIGuy's point, wasn't it? You omitted the sentence prior to what you quoted: "The British were not some tyrannical regime."

[SEWIGuy]

Look at Canada, Australia and New Zealand.  They've all been just fine both during and after British rule.

Those weren't wars. There are some good examples of independence via war, but not those three.

That's my point, which I didn't articulate clearly enough.

Those three countries are examples of how countries formerly under British rule became independent anyway without the need of a war.  Their citizens were fine under British rule and are fine now.  The British weren't the tyrants that history sometimes paints them to be.

[webny99]

America is special because of the basis on which it was founded, and the way it has been uniquely prospered as a nation in the years since.

Sorry, but what is special about how the United States was founded?  Revolts against distant rule have happened for time eternal.  The continue to happen.  And will happen well into the future.
...
Don't get me wrong.  It's worked out just fine.  But a more critical understanding of history would see that it wasn't some unique revolution.

It was the first major country not ruled by a king or queen and founded on the basis of freedom, equality, and justice. Most other countries were monarchies before the American Revolution, and it was because of the US that the concept of democracy became more widespread.

[TheGrassGuy]

Ending lockdowns now will create a spike in the number of cases, which you would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand not to understand.

Considering the number of cases still turning up even with the lockdowns being in place for a month now. . .

Nothing says you cannot stay in on your own.

Too true. If you live in an area where lockdowns are being relaxed, but you object to it and are still concerned that you might contract Coronavirus, just keep staying inside. When lockdowns are added, they're saying "everybody must stay inside". But when lockdowns are removed, they're NOT saying "everybody must go outside". I have a feeling that even in those areas, much of the lockdown will continue, but it'll be self-enforced.

You know who "must go outside?"  The health care workers, who have to increase/prolong their exposure risk because some idiot governor wants to be popular and free everybody.  The health care workers don't get to choose to stay home.

Well yeah, but not everyone's a health care worker, right?

[Roadgeekteen]

Ending lockdowns now will create a spike in the number of cases, which you would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand not to understand.

Considering the number of cases still turning up even with the lockdowns being in place for a month now. . .

Nothing says you cannot stay in on your own.

Too true. If you live in an area where lockdowns are being relaxed, but you object to it and are still concerned that you might contract Coronavirus, just keep staying inside. When lockdowns are added, they're saying "everybody must stay inside". But when lockdowns are removed, they're NOT saying "everybody must go outside". I have a feeling that even in those areas, much of the lockdown will continue, but it'll be self-enforced.

You know who "must go outside?"  The health care workers, who have to increase/prolong their exposure risk because some idiot governor wants to be popular and free everybody.  The health care workers don't get to choose to stay home.

Well yeah, but not everyone's a health care worker, right?

Yes, but their lives are being put at stake. Nobody is going to die because they can't go to the salon.

Look at Canada, Australia and New Zealand.  They've all been just fine both during and after British rule.

Those weren't wars. There are some good examples of independence via war, but not those three.

That's my point, which I didn't articulate clearly enough.

Those three countries are examples of how countries formerly under British rule became independent anyway without the need of a war.  Their citizens were fine under British rule and are fine now.  The British weren't the tyrants that history sometimes paints them to be.

The British were tyrants, just not to English speakers. Look up the Bengal famine or the Irish potato famine. I do understand your point though.

[Max Rockatansky]

Ending lockdowns now will create a spike in the number of cases, which you would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand not to understand.

Considering the number of cases still turning up even with the lockdowns being in place for a month now. . .

Nothing says you cannot stay in on your own.

Too true. If you live in an area where lockdowns are being relaxed, but you object to it and are still concerned that you might contract Coronavirus, just keep staying inside. When lockdowns are added, they're saying "everybody must stay inside". But when lockdowns are removed, they're NOT saying "everybody must go outside". I have a feeling that even in those areas, much of the lockdown will continue, but it'll be self-enforced.

You know who "must go outside?"  The health care workers, who have to increase/prolong their exposure risk because some idiot governor wants to be popular and free everybody.  The health care workers don't get to choose to stay home.

I'm not sure how this will sound, but is it not part of a health care workers job to be potentially exposed to some hazards?   I certainly don't think anyone who is of sound mind who enters a health care field goes in with the perception they won't be exposed to a disease at some point.  Granted most health care works probably DO have an expectation about being provided proper PPE. 

[NWI_Irish96]

Ending lockdowns now will create a spike in the number of cases, which you would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand not to understand.

Considering the number of cases still turning up even with the lockdowns being in place for a month now. . .

Nothing says you cannot stay in on your own.

Too true. If you live in an area where lockdowns are being relaxed, but you object to it and are still concerned that you might contract Coronavirus, just keep staying inside. When lockdowns are added, they're saying "everybody must stay inside". But when lockdowns are removed, they're NOT saying "everybody must go outside". I have a feeling that even in those areas, much of the lockdown will continue, but it'll be self-enforced.

You know who "must go outside?"  The health care workers, who have to increase/prolong their exposure risk because some idiot governor wants to be popular and free everybody.  The health care workers don't get to choose to stay home.

I'm not sure how this will sound, but is it not part of a health care workers job to be potentially exposed to some hazards?   I certainly don't think anyone who is of sound mind who enters a health care field goes in with the perception they won't be exposed to a disease at some point.  Granted most health care works probably DO have an expectation about being provided proper PPE. 

We had a pandemic before we knew it and hundreds of thousands got infected and health care workers got put at risk.  Nobody could have prevented that.  However, now we're in a position to limit that risk, so unless you're willing to pony up a bunch of extra tax money to give the health care workers a boatload of hazard pay for preventable exposure, stay the fuck at home for a few more weeks.