The coronavirus is destroying everything

[thspfc]

no head in a harness spotter dependence

So you're okay with drivers dying in a crash, then. Nice.

[Flint1979]

Kind of ironic that Michigan very recently approved sports betting in casinos, isn't it?

Now both the sports and the casinos are shut down.

Seems like professional sports in Michigan have been shut down for a few years now.

At one point weren't both the Pistons and Wings in last place at the same time? I know the Wings were because they had the fewest points in the entire league. That would go for the Tigers and Lions ending their last season's in last place for all four Detroit teams to be in last place within the same year.

Such a disappointment with the Wings and Pistons to open a new arena a few years ago only to be worse than they were in their old buildings.

[kurumi]

Hard times for the Wolverines, too. That fictional town called "Beatosu" on the the 1978 MI state map? That's happened 3 times in the past 20 seasons. They still lead the series, and they're often a top 25 team, but the fans want more than that.

[Flint1979]

Hard times for the Wolverines, too. That fictional town called "Beatosu" on the the 1978 MI state map? That's happened 3 times in the past 20 seasons. They still lead the series, and they're often a top 25 team, but the fans want more than that.

They've had good teams, just not as good as Ohio State. They are in better shape than the Spartans are.

[1995hoo]

Tokyo Olympics postponed. No surprise, other than that it took them this long to agree to postpone it.

[hbelkins]

no head in a harness spotter dependence

So you're okay with drivers dying in a crash, then. Nice.

I don't think that's what he's saying. The drivers are overly dependent on spotters now, and with blind spots at some of the tracks and radio communications not always working properly, it makes more a different style of racing and sometimes wrecks when drivers are expecting to hear where someone is and they don't hear the spotter, and run into them.

[LM117]

Statement from the International Olympic Committee:

https://www.olympic.org/news/joint-statement-from-the-international-olympic-committee-and-the-tokyo-2020-organising-committee

[ftballfan]

Formula 1 has postponed or cancelled its first eight races of the season and doesn't plan to resume until mid-June at the earliest: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.statement-from-f1-ceo-chase-carey-when-the-situation-improves-well-be-ready.605dLuJYFSuJlOw8E2T4F5.html

[SP Cook]

no head in a harness spotter dependence

So you're okay with drivers dying in a crash, then. Nice.

I don't think that's what he's saying. The drivers are overly dependent on spotters now, and with blind spots at some of the tracks and radio communications not always working properly, it makes more a different style of racing and sometimes wrecks when drivers are expecting to hear where someone is and they don't hear the spotter, and run into them.

Exactly.

There are two further points.

Motorsports is about finding a point along a continuum of compromise between safety and sport.  The current point chosen on that continuum is no more or less valid than any other point.  People that do not understand motorsports and post idiocy like "your OK with drivers dying" just do not understand motorsports.  Understand that if NASCAR just had the drivers stand on pit road and make engine noises with their mouths and then decide the race with rock-paper-scissors, and I pointed out that the sport would be better if they actually started the cars and raced, the same idiotic response about "drivers dying" would equally apply, as it is far safer to use the R-P-S method.  Those of us who understand the damage to the sport that head in a harness has caused (and who likewise view with great skepticism the safety claims) understand motorsports.

But the simpler point is we like motorsports.  Fact is there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future. Do you do what is reasonable to cut these down?  Certainly.  But there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future.  If you cannot accept that, or understand it, then motorsports is NOT FOR YOU, and you need to move on.

[hbelkins]

But the simpler point is we like motorsports.  Fact is there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future. Do you do what is reasonable to cut these down?  Certainly.  But there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future.  If you cannot accept that, or understand it, then motorsports is NOT FOR YOU, and you need to move on.

Pit road speeds, limits on when pit crew members can come out to service cars, making pit crew members wear helmets and firesuits -- all of those have been done as well with no drastic impact on the quality of the product in the interests of safety. The same can't be said of eliminating racing back to the caution.

Think Dave Marcis could get by with wearing wingtip shoes now? I doubt it.

Tony Stewart always preferred the Hutchens (sp?) head restraint instead of the HANS device that NASCAR eventually mandated. IIRC he said it gave him the same level of protection while preserving his ability to see what was going on around him.

Deaths can occur in any sport. Two Kentuckians were involved in the baseball incident where a guy got killed when he was hit by a pitch. How many stories do we hear about basketball players collapsing and dying on the court? I saw a reminder about Hank Gathers the other day, and I think a West Virginia high school player collapsed and died in the last year or two. Same for football.

[cwf1701]

But the simpler point is we like motorsports.  Fact is there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future. Do you do what is reasonable to cut these down?  Certainly.  But there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future.  If you cannot accept that, or understand it, then motorsports is NOT FOR YOU, and you need to move on.

Pit road speeds, limits on when pit crew members can come out to service cars, making pit crew members wear helmets and firesuits -- all of those have been done as well with no drastic impact on the quality of the product in the interests of safety. The same can't be said of eliminating racing back to the caution.

Think Dave Marcis could get by with wearing wingtip shoes now? I doubt it.

Tony Stewart always preferred the Hutchens (sp?) head restraint instead of the HANS device that NASCAR eventually mandated. IIRC he said it gave him the same level of protection while preserving his ability to see what was going on around him.

Deaths can occur in any sport. Two Kentuckians were involved in the baseball incident where a guy got killed when he was hit by a pitch. How many stories do we hear about basketball players collapsing and dying on the court? I saw a reminder about Hank Gathers the other day, and I think a West Virginia high school player collapsed and died in the last year or two. Same for football.

And there Chuck Hughes ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hughes) who died during a 1971 NFL game.

[formulanone]

But the simpler point is we like motorsports.  Fact is there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future. Do you do what is reasonable to cut these down?  Certainly.  But there WILL be deaths in motorsports in the future.  If you cannot accept that, or understand it, then motorsports is NOT FOR YOU, and you need to move on.

Pit road speeds, limits on when pit crew members can come out to service cars, making pit crew members wear helmets and firesuits -- all of those have been done as well with no drastic impact on the quality of the product in the interests of safety. The same can't be said of eliminating racing back to the caution.

While I enjoyed the times when racing back to the caution flag made for some unexpected excitement, it really had to go. The problem is that sometimes the caution flag is waved at a arbitrary point of an incident or for "debris on the track", and that kind of shakes things up for position changes at the moments before the flag and after, which aren't allowed.

But just because there wasn't a major incident that can be traced to the prohibition in the mid-1990s, didn't mean that it wasn't dangerous. All it would have taken is someone hitting a stopped/slowing car, a safety vehicle, or track workers which was really a case of when, not if. There was an ARCA race at Daytona in 1990 where a track worker was badly hurt during a caution, and one doesn't have to look far outside NASCAR to see examples where it's obviously dangerous for drivers and track-workers/marshals alike during mixed-flag conditions. Motorsports are always going to have an element of obvious danger, but after the safety of the fans, the course workers donating their time is something that ought to be respected.

I don't think it's caused the downfall of NASCAR's top tier spectacle (there's probably a dozen more things that have caused it), but yet bump-drafting and a patchy observance of rules continues.

[hbelkins]

I may not have made myself clear. Racing back to the caution may have improved safety, but it's also come at a cost to the on-track product. Instead now we get the "lucky dog/free pass" and "wave-arounds."

But even operating at yellow flag speeds has its risks. Remember Juan Pablo Montoya and the jet dryer?

[Max Rockatansky]

I may not have made myself clear. Racing back to the caution may have improved safety, but it's also come at a cost to the on-track product. Instead now we get the "lucky dog/free pass" and "wave-arounds."

But even operating at yellow flag speeds has its risks. Remember Juan Pablo Montoya and the jet dryer?

Isn't one of the main draws to motor racing the aspect of danger?...or even to that end much of sports?  To me that was always the case and something that always seemed to be a draw for the competitors too.  I'm not saying that racing should be unsafe (in fact it was a blood bath until the last couple decades) but taking away certain aspects like racing back to the flag really hurt it's appeal IMO.  Similarly the NHL really used to have a big draw of people who wanted to see fights as much as the actual game.  Making hockey more PC in the name of safety ended up pushing a lot of people away.  Arguably the same thing is beginning to happen with football at all levels. 

[formulanone]

I may not have made myself clear. Racing back to the caution may have improved safety, but it's also come at a cost to the on-track product. Instead now we get the "lucky dog/free pass" and "wave-arounds."

But even operating at yellow flag speeds has its risks. Remember Juan Pablo Montoya and the jet dryer?

Yeah, there's going to be careless drivers - wasn't JPM racing around on yellow to catch up with the pack, especially when he had several laps to do so?

I think the racing-back-to-the-yellow was weakly enforced, sort of a gentleman's agreement that was rarely followed. If you happened to be half a lap away from the incident, then it wasn't causing harm. But if there was a genuine problem in Turn 4, then it got a little dangerous. There's also the notion that it might interfere with life-saving operations for a couple critical moments — the cars would continue to circulate at racing speeds for an extra 30-45 seconds before an ambulance could be dispatched.

I think the Lucky Dog should not have ever been initiated, unless there was a technicality where one shouldn't have been passed after the stripe, which is the only reason to have a wave-around, or that the pace car can't seem to find the right leader.

[Beltway]

Deaths can occur in any sport. Two Kentuckians were involved in the baseball incident where a guy got killed when he was hit by a pitch. How many stories do we hear about basketball players collapsing and dying on the court? I saw a reminder about Hank Gathers the other day, and I think a West Virginia high school player collapsed and died in the last year or two. Same for football.

Some people have collapsed and died on a golf course after they insisted on walking it instead of riding the cart!

[Max Rockatansky]

Deaths can occur in any sport. Two Kentuckians were involved in the baseball incident where a guy got killed when he was hit by a pitch. How many stories do we hear about basketball players collapsing and dying on the court? I saw a reminder about Hank Gathers the other day, and I think a West Virginia high school player collapsed and died in the last year or two. Same for football.

Some people have collapsed and died on a golf course after they insisted on walking it instead of riding the cart!

That was actually a fairly regular occurrence when I lived in Phoenix given the high number of retirees. 

[nexus73]

Want to see what happens when motorcycles and rollerskates get mixed on the same track?  Watch the original version of "Rollerball". 

Rick





 

[Beltway]

Some people have collapsed and died on a golf course after they insisted on walking it instead of riding the cart!

That was actually a fairly regular occurrence when I lived in Phoenix given the high number of retirees. 

Gets well beyond 100 degrees in the summer, right?

[Max Rockatansky]

Some people have collapsed and died on a golf course after they insisted on walking it instead of riding the cart!

That was actually a fairly regular occurrence when I lived in Phoenix given the high number of retirees. 

Gets well beyond 100 degrees in the summer, right?

Yes, most tee times are in the early morning in the summer though.  Even around 6 AM it still can be 80-90F pretty easily. 

[Beltway]

Gets well beyond 100 degrees in the summer, right?

Yes, most tee times are in the early morning in the summer though.  Even around 6 AM it still can be 80-90F pretty easily. 

Pretty much true for summer golf even in the middle or northern states.  Get a really early start if the day will be hot.

[Max Rockatansky]

Gets well beyond 100 degrees in the summer, right?

Yes, most tee times are in the early morning in the summer though.  Even around 6 AM it still can be 80-90F pretty easily. 

Pretty much true for summer golf even in the middle or northern states.  Get a really early start if the day will be hot.

Not potentially 120F plus hot.  The worst part is that you really don't know how fast you're getting dehydrated because of how dry the air is (usually) out in Phoenix.  The only thing that can makes things worse is when it is 120F and a monsoon hit the day before, that's rancid humidity on the next level from Hell.

[jakeroot]

Gets well beyond 100 degrees in the summer, right?

Yes, most tee times are in the early morning in the summer though.  Even around 6 AM it still can be 80-90F pretty easily. 

Pretty much true for summer golf even in the middle or northern states.  Get a really early start if the day will be hot.

Not potentially 120F plus hot.  The worst part is that you really don't know how fast you're getting dehydrated because of how dry the air is (usually) out in Phoenix.  The only thing that can makes things worse is when it is 120F and a monsoon hit the day before, that's rancid humidity on the next level from Hell.

I would agree with this. I've spent a fair amount of time in Phoenix (about half my family lives there), and live in Northern Virginia part of the year. The east coast humidity is killer, but it's hard to describe desert heat like what you can experience in Phoenix. The worst part about Phoenix is how unwavering the heat is. Even at night (thanks to the urban heat-island effect), the temperate really doesn't drop that much, which is nuts given that the west coast is known for cold night-time temps year-round (even LA is jacket weather at night in the summer...mostly). Sure, the east coast and midwest are known for extreme humidity that doesn't always drop off at night either, but it doesn't pound at you like in Phoenix. In Phoenix, your only chance of escape during late spring into autumn is AC, unless you want to run from lightning during an afternoon monsoon.

This is all in addition to the actual temperate of each place being a good 15F apart during the summer; even with humidity, it's hard to match up to day-time temps in Phoenix. Never mind the monsoon humidity!

[Max Rockatansky]

Gets well beyond 100 degrees in the summer, right?

Yes, most tee times are in the early morning in the summer though.  Even around 6 AM it still can be 80-90F pretty easily. 

Pretty much true for summer golf even in the middle or northern states.  Get a really early start if the day will be hot.

Not potentially 120F plus hot.  The worst part is that you really don't know how fast you're getting dehydrated because of how dry the air is (usually) out in Phoenix.  The only thing that can makes things worse is when it is 120F and a monsoon hit the day before, that's rancid humidity on the next level from Hell.

I would agree with this. I've spent a fair amount of time in Phoenix (about half my family lives there), and live in Northern Virginia part of the year. The east coast humidity is killer, but it's hard to describe desert heat like what you can experience in Phoenix. The worst part about Phoenix is how unwavering the heat is. Even at night (thanks to the urban heat-island effect), the temperate really doesn't drop that much, which is nuts given that the west coast is known for cold night-time temps year-round (even LA is jacket weather at night in the summer...mostly). Sure, the east coast and midwest are known for extreme humidity that doesn't always drop off at night either, but it doesn't pound at you like in Phoenix. In Phoenix, your only chance of escape during late spring into autumn is AC, unless you want to run from lightning during an afternoon monsoon.

This is all in addition to the actual temperate of each place being a good 15F apart during the summer; even with humidity, it's hard to match up to day-time temps in Phoenix. Never mind the monsoon humidity!

When I lived in the area if I wanted to do a serious run or hike it needed to start usually around 4 AM and be over by 8 AM to avoid the temperature jumping over 100F.  I've been distance running for over 20 years and Phoenix is the only place that got me so bad that I actually thought that I ever needed to call 911 for dehydration.  Orlando was way more unpleasant with the swampy humidity but it was nowhere near as dangerous in reality as Phoenix.  That's the big reason why you hear stories about people dying on the golf course out there semi regularly. 

[Flint1979]

I was on a flight from Flint, Michigan to Orlando, Florida last night with only 6 passengers on the flight.