The coronavirus is destroying everything

[thspfc]

One positive aspect of the B1G canceling its fall season is that Ohio State won't be whining about either not making the championship playoffs, or whining about having to play Alabama or Clemson. 

And we won't hear Michigan fans complaining about losing to Ohio State.

Until they fire Harbaugh, I will complain.

Remember when that team was hot garbage, like they couldn't even get to a bowl, then they hired a new coach and finished the season ranked four out of five years? Me neither. But if that ever did happen I would expect the coach to be fired instantly, as turning the program around 180 degrees for the better is a fireable offense.

I still remember a lot of hard core Michigan die hards kept calling for Llyod Carr to be fired over things like 9-3 seasons.  That seems absurd in retrospect given he won a National Championship and maintained one of the better programs in the country for years (and kept beating Ohio State on top of it).

See, that's it. He turned the program around but loses to Ohio every year and never gets into championship contention as a result. No matter how good a coach is at Michigan, if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

This is a recipe for cycling through coaches and descending into mediocrity.

But it fairness there was nothing that could have indicated Rich Rodriguez would have been such a failure or Jim Harbaugh would often be badly out coached by his counterparts in the Big Ten.  Rich Rodriguez built up West Virginia to one of the best programs in the country and Jim Harbaugh wasn’t too far removed from dragging the 49ers into a Super Bowl contender.  To that end it’s easy to see why the Michigan Athletic Department made those hires, most schools would have in the same position.

Harbaugh has not even been outcoached by very many B1G coaches. Since he arrived he has a better record among coaches who have lasted since 2015 in the B1G than everyone except Chryst at Wisconsin, and even that's close and can be attributed to Michigan's yearly schedule usually being tougher than Wisconsin's. If Michigan and Wisconsin swapped places, with UW in the East playing Ohio State every year, and Michigan in the West playing poopoo on a stick most years, Michigan would have made the title game at least three or four times, and we'd be talking about them as the second best team in the B1G, the same way we talk about Georgia as the second best team in the SEC.

[SEWIGuy]

One positive aspect of the B1G canceling its fall season is that Ohio State won't be whining about either not making the championship playoffs, or whining about having to play Alabama or Clemson. 

And we won't hear Michigan fans complaining about losing to Ohio State.

Until they fire Harbaugh, I will complain.

Remember when that team was hot garbage, like they couldn't even get to a bowl, then they hired a new coach and finished the season ranked four out of five years? Me neither. But if that ever did happen I would expect the coach to be fired instantly, as turning the program around 180 degrees for the better is a fireable offense.

I still remember a lot of hard core Michigan die hards kept calling for Llyod Carr to be fired over things like 9-3 seasons.  That seems absurd in retrospect given he won a National Championship and maintained one of the better programs in the country for years (and kept beating Ohio State on top of it).

See, that's it. He turned the program around but loses to Ohio every year and never gets into championship contention as a result. No matter how good a coach is at Michigan, if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

This is a recipe for cycling through coaches and descending into mediocrity.

But it fairness there was nothing that could have indicated Rich Rodriguez would have been such a failure or Jim Harbaugh would often be badly out coached by his counterparts in the Big Ten.  Rich Rodriguez built up West Virginia to one of the best programs in the country and Jim Harbaugh wasn't too far removed from dragging the 49ers into a Super Bowl contender.  To that end it's easy to see why the Michigan Athletic Department made those hires, most schools would have in the same position.

RichRod was a bad fit at Michigan.  The style he played was never going to work there, especially considering the pro-style offense that Michigan had been running for years.  Furthermore not being a "Michigan Man" meant that the fanbase was never going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Brian Kelly should have been the choice there, and he was one of the names being thrown around at the time.  Michigan native, won at Grand Valley and Central Michigan, understood the local recruiting grounds, etc.  Although he had his issue at Notre Dame, he is undoubtedly the most successful coach there since Holtz.

[Max Rockatansky]

One positive aspect of the B1G canceling its fall season is that Ohio State won't be whining about either not making the championship playoffs, or whining about having to play Alabama or Clemson. 

And we won't hear Michigan fans complaining about losing to Ohio State.

Until they fire Harbaugh, I will complain.

Remember when that team was hot garbage, like they couldn't even get to a bowl, then they hired a new coach and finished the season ranked four out of five years? Me neither. But if that ever did happen I would expect the coach to be fired instantly, as turning the program around 180 degrees for the better is a fireable offense.

I still remember a lot of hard core Michigan die hards kept calling for Llyod Carr to be fired over things like 9-3 seasons.  That seems absurd in retrospect given he won a National Championship and maintained one of the better programs in the country for years (and kept beating Ohio State on top of it).

See, that's it. He turned the program around but loses to Ohio every year and never gets into championship contention as a result. No matter how good a coach is at Michigan, if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

This is a recipe for cycling through coaches and descending into mediocrity.

But it fairness there was nothing that could have indicated Rich Rodriguez would have been such a failure or Jim Harbaugh would often be badly out coached by his counterparts in the Big Ten.  Rich Rodriguez built up West Virginia to one of the best programs in the country and Jim Harbaugh wasn't too far removed from dragging the 49ers into a Super Bowl contender.  To that end it's easy to see why the Michigan Athletic Department made those hires, most schools would have in the same position.

RichRod was a bad fit at Michigan.  The style he played was never going to work there, especially considering the pro-style offense that Michigan had been running for years.  Furthermore not being a "Michigan Man" meant that the fanbase was never going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Brian Kelly should have been the choice there, and he was one of the names being thrown around at the time.  Michigan native, won at Grand Valley and Central Michigan, understood the local recruiting grounds, etc.  Although he had his issue at Notre Dame, he is undoubtedly the most successful coach there since Holtz.

Interestingly I remember a lot of the fan base was really willing to give the Spread Option Style of offense a try after Lloyd Carr retired.  When it turned out to be a disaster the first year of Rich Rodriguez's tenure that attitude turned around fast.  I was actually surprised Rich Rodriguez lasted three years given the back lash that occurred after that 3-9 season.  The irony would be that Brady Hoke inherited all those guys Rich Rodriguez recruited and went 11-2 in 2011 with them.  Brady Hoke ultimately didn't turn out to be the answer either as the team kept getting worse every year. 

To your point I think you're right in retrospect that Brian Kelly would have been a good fit.  But I don't think at the end of the day that he would have been much better than Jim Harbaugh has been either.  What really ultimately surprises me that the Big Ten largely is still oriented towards Pro Style offenses and I wonder sometimes if the aversion to the spread option has a lot to do with what happened to Rich Rodriguez. 

[SEWIGuy]

One positive aspect of the B1G canceling its fall season is that Ohio State won't be whining about either not making the championship playoffs, or whining about having to play Alabama or Clemson. 

And we won't hear Michigan fans complaining about losing to Ohio State.

Until they fire Harbaugh, I will complain.

Remember when that team was hot garbage, like they couldn't even get to a bowl, then they hired a new coach and finished the season ranked four out of five years? Me neither. But if that ever did happen I would expect the coach to be fired instantly, as turning the program around 180 degrees for the better is a fireable offense.

I still remember a lot of hard core Michigan die hards kept calling for Llyod Carr to be fired over things like 9-3 seasons.  That seems absurd in retrospect given he won a National Championship and maintained one of the better programs in the country for years (and kept beating Ohio State on top of it).

See, that's it. He turned the program around but loses to Ohio every year and never gets into championship contention as a result. No matter how good a coach is at Michigan, if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

This is a recipe for cycling through coaches and descending into mediocrity.

But it fairness there was nothing that could have indicated Rich Rodriguez would have been such a failure or Jim Harbaugh would often be badly out coached by his counterparts in the Big Ten.  Rich Rodriguez built up West Virginia to one of the best programs in the country and Jim Harbaugh wasn't too far removed from dragging the 49ers into a Super Bowl contender.  To that end it's easy to see why the Michigan Athletic Department made those hires, most schools would have in the same position.

RichRod was a bad fit at Michigan.  The style he played was never going to work there, especially considering the pro-style offense that Michigan had been running for years.  Furthermore not being a "Michigan Man" meant that the fanbase was never going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Brian Kelly should have been the choice there, and he was one of the names being thrown around at the time.  Michigan native, won at Grand Valley and Central Michigan, understood the local recruiting grounds, etc.  Although he had his issue at Notre Dame, he is undoubtedly the most successful coach there since Holtz.

Interestingly I remember a lot of the fan base was really willing to give the Spread Option Style of offense a try after Lloyd Carr retired.  When it turned out to be a disaster the first year of Rich Rodriguez's tenure that attitude turned around fast.  I was actually surprised Rich Rodriguez lasted three years given the back lash that occurred after that 3-9 season.  The irony would be that Brady Hoke inherited all those guys Rich Rodriguez recruited and went 11-2 in 2011 with them.  Brady Hoke ultimately didn't turn out to be the answer either as the team kept getting worse every year. 

To your point I think you're right in retrospect that Brian Kelly would have been a good fit.  But I don't think at the end of the day that he would have been much better than Jim Harbaugh has been either.  What really ultimately surprises me that the Big Ten largely is still oriented towards Pro Style offenses and I wonder sometimes if the aversion to the spread option has a lot to do with what happened to Rich Rodriguez. 

I think you are 100% right about Kelly ultimately not being better than Harbaugh.

But I think the B10 top schools don't run spread option because it's just not run here at the high school levels.  Take Wisconsin.  The high schools around here run traditional running game type offenses with beefy linemen.  Because that's what the local coaches know.  Those linemen largely grow up wanting to go to Madison, as do the DL, linebackers, etc.  And occasionally they can recruit the local running back, receiver and defensive backfield guys, but often have to go south for them.  That's why when UW has tried more of a spread look, it just doesn't work.  Barry Alvarez knew this.  His longtime assistant Paul Chryst (who dad was a legendary high school and D3 coach) knows this as well.

Michigan, Iowa, Penn State are by and large the same. 

The schools that run it either recruit more nationally (Ohio State) or do it more as a change up (Minnesota, Purdue)

[Max Rockatansky]

One positive aspect of the B1G canceling its fall season is that Ohio State won't be whining about either not making the championship playoffs, or whining about having to play Alabama or Clemson. 

And we won't hear Michigan fans complaining about losing to Ohio State.

Until they fire Harbaugh, I will complain.

Remember when that team was hot garbage, like they couldn't even get to a bowl, then they hired a new coach and finished the season ranked four out of five years? Me neither. But if that ever did happen I would expect the coach to be fired instantly, as turning the program around 180 degrees for the better is a fireable offense.

I still remember a lot of hard core Michigan die hards kept calling for Llyod Carr to be fired over things like 9-3 seasons.  That seems absurd in retrospect given he won a National Championship and maintained one of the better programs in the country for years (and kept beating Ohio State on top of it).

See, that's it. He turned the program around but loses to Ohio every year and never gets into championship contention as a result. No matter how good a coach is at Michigan, if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

This is a recipe for cycling through coaches and descending into mediocrity.

But it fairness there was nothing that could have indicated Rich Rodriguez would have been such a failure or Jim Harbaugh would often be badly out coached by his counterparts in the Big Ten.  Rich Rodriguez built up West Virginia to one of the best programs in the country and Jim Harbaugh wasn't too far removed from dragging the 49ers into a Super Bowl contender.  To that end it's easy to see why the Michigan Athletic Department made those hires, most schools would have in the same position.

RichRod was a bad fit at Michigan.  The style he played was never going to work there, especially considering the pro-style offense that Michigan had been running for years.  Furthermore not being a "Michigan Man" meant that the fanbase was never going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Brian Kelly should have been the choice there, and he was one of the names being thrown around at the time.  Michigan native, won at Grand Valley and Central Michigan, understood the local recruiting grounds, etc.  Although he had his issue at Notre Dame, he is undoubtedly the most successful coach there since Holtz.

Interestingly I remember a lot of the fan base was really willing to give the Spread Option Style of offense a try after Lloyd Carr retired.  When it turned out to be a disaster the first year of Rich Rodriguez's tenure that attitude turned around fast.  I was actually surprised Rich Rodriguez lasted three years given the back lash that occurred after that 3-9 season.  The irony would be that Brady Hoke inherited all those guys Rich Rodriguez recruited and went 11-2 in 2011 with them.  Brady Hoke ultimately didn't turn out to be the answer either as the team kept getting worse every year. 

To your point I think you're right in retrospect that Brian Kelly would have been a good fit.  But I don't think at the end of the day that he would have been much better than Jim Harbaugh has been either.  What really ultimately surprises me that the Big Ten largely is still oriented towards Pro Style offenses and I wonder sometimes if the aversion to the spread option has a lot to do with what happened to Rich Rodriguez. 

I think you are 100% right about Kelly ultimately not being better than Harbaugh.

But I think the B10 top schools don't run spread option because it's just not run here at the high school levels.  Take Wisconsin.  The high schools around here run traditional running game type offenses with beefy linemen.  Because that's what the local coaches know.  Those linemen largely grow up wanting to go to Madison, as do the DL, linebackers, etc.  And occasionally they can recruit the local running back, receiver and defensive backfield guys, but often have to go south for them.  That's why when UW has tried more of a spread look, it just doesn't work.  Barry Alvarez knew this.  His longtime assistant Paul Chryst (who dad was a legendary high school and D3 coach) knows this as well.

Michigan, Iowa, Penn State are by and large the same. 

The schools that run it either recruit more nationally (Ohio State) or do it more as a change up (Minnesota, Purdue)

I recall the same thing growing up in Michigan.  Some of the prep schools would run early iterations of what would become spread option but usually they were cherry picking the best recruits out of the Detroit Area Schools.  Interestingly in regards to UofM they usually have had a strong out of state recruiting presence.  Most coaches have opted to recruit for more traditionally pro style offensive players.  Denard Robinson was the notable exception where a spread option quarterback was recruited out of Florida. 

[Alps]

One positive aspect of the B1G canceling its fall season is that Ohio State won't be whining about either not making the championship playoffs, or whining about having to play Alabama or Clemson. 

And we won't hear Michigan fans complaining about losing to Ohio State.

Until they fire Harbaugh, I will complain.

Remember when that team was hot garbage, like they couldn't even get to a bowl, then they hired a new coach and finished the season ranked four out of five years? Me neither. But if that ever did happen I would expect the coach to be fired instantly, as turning the program around 180 degrees for the better is a fireable offense.

I still remember a lot of hard core Michigan die hards kept calling for Llyod Carr to be fired over things like 9-3 seasons.  That seems absurd in retrospect given he won a National Championship and maintained one of the better programs in the country for years (and kept beating Ohio State on top of it).

See, that's it. He turned the program around but loses to Ohio every year and never gets into championship contention as a result. No matter how good a coach is at Michigan, if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

You're actually telling me that a coach's worth should be placed entirely on one game out of 13 per season? And that one game is against a school that is almost always one of the top five in the country? Stop acting like an idiot, please. This kind of stupidity is why Michigan fans are viewed the way they are.

Stop reading like an idiot, please. Failure to win big games and reach the championship with promising teams is the issue. Ohio is just one symptom of the overall problem. This kind of stupidity is why Ohio fans are viewed the way they are. (or insert your fandom here)

[thspfc]

One positive aspect of the B1G canceling its fall season is that Ohio State won't be whining about either not making the championship playoffs, or whining about having to play Alabama or Clemson. 

And we won't hear Michigan fans complaining about losing to Ohio State.

Until they fire Harbaugh, I will complain.

Remember when that team was hot garbage, like they couldn't even get to a bowl, then they hired a new coach and finished the season ranked four out of five years? Me neither. But if that ever did happen I would expect the coach to be fired instantly, as turning the program around 180 degrees for the better is a fireable offense.

I still remember a lot of hard core Michigan die hards kept calling for Llyod Carr to be fired over things like 9-3 seasons.  That seems absurd in retrospect given he won a National Championship and maintained one of the better programs in the country for years (and kept beating Ohio State on top of it).

See, that's it. He turned the program around but loses to Ohio every year and never gets into championship contention as a result. No matter how good a coach is at Michigan, if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

You're actually telling me that a coach's worth should be placed entirely on one game out of 13 per season? And that one game is against a school that is almost always one of the top five in the country? Stop acting like an idiot, please. This kind of stupidity is why Michigan fans are viewed the way they are.

Stop reading like an idiot, please. Failure to win big games and reach the championship with promising teams is the issue. Ohio is just one symptom of the overall problem. This kind of stupidity is why Ohio fans are viewed the way they are. (or insert your fandom here)

Read your own comment again.

if you can't beat Ohio, you don't belong.

Stop moving the goalposts on me and backtracking on your argument. You explicitly said that if a coach can't win against Ohio State, then nothing else matters and he should be fired. And regardless, it's not as if Harbuagh's record in big games is horrible. He's got more top 25 wins than any other current B1G coach except Ferentz at Iowa, who has been coaching since the dinosaurs roamed. So he's won plenty of big games at Michigan.
Also, it's sort of ironic for you to assume that I, a person who is supporting and defending the Michigan coach, is an Ohio State fan just because I disagree with you. Shows how irrationaly angry and hateful towards OSU Michigan fans are (if you are one, which I believe you are based on your comments in this thread). For the record I'm a Badger all the way. l_l\/\/

[ilpt4u]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

[hbelkins]

Reading these comments about Harbaugh/tOSU puts me in mind of Bill Curry. Wildly successful at Alabama, but basically got chased off because he had trouble beating Auburn. Kentucky hiring him looked like the steal of the century, but unfortunately that didn't work out too well for the Big Blue. Which was more representative of the issues Kentucky football will always face and the advantages Alabama football has regardless of who's coaching there.

As for tOSU: I don't hate them like so many do, especially some of my friends in northern Kentucky. They detest tOSU because they hear so much about them from Cincinnati media and Buckeye fans on the other side of the river.

Kinda like why I dislike Alabama so much. So many "front-runner" fans who only cheer for them, often in place of their home-state SEC schools, because they win.

[NWI_Irish96]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

In this century, the only teams in the region that have been to a BCS Championshp Game/College Football Playoff are Ohio State and Notre Dame. Michigan is grouped with the rest of the also-rans like Northwestern and Bowling Green.

[thspfc]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

In this century, the only teams in the region that have been to a BCS Championshp Game/College Football Playoff are Ohio State and Notre Dame. Michigan is grouped with the rest of the also-rans like Northwestern and Bowling Green.

Saying Michigan is in the same category as Northwestern and Bowling Green is like saying Mars is the same distance from Earth as Pluto.

[NWI_Irish96]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

In this century, the only teams in the region that have been to a BCS Championshp Game/College Football Playoff are Ohio State and Notre Dame. Michigan is grouped with the rest of the also-rans like Northwestern and Bowling Green.

Saying Michigan is in the same category as Northwestern and Bowling Green is like saying Mars is the same distance from Earth as Pluto.

Neither Mars nor Pluto are playing for championships. Does it really matter how far away they are?

[GaryV]

But if they were playing in a championship, Mars would win because Pluto was disqualified.

Back on track, HS football in Michigan will be moved to the spring.

[SEWIGuy]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

In this century, the only teams in the region that have been to a BCS Championshp Game/College Football Playoff are Ohio State and Notre Dame. Michigan is grouped with the rest of the also-rans like Northwestern and Bowling Green.

Saying Michigan is in the same category as Northwestern and Bowling Green is like saying Mars is the same distance from Earth as Pluto.

Neither Mars nor Pluto are playing for championships. Does it really matter how far away they are?

Of course it does.  This is silly.

[thspfc]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

In this century, the only teams in the region that have been to a BCS Championshp Game/College Football Playoff are Ohio State and Notre Dame. Michigan is grouped with the rest of the also-rans like Northwestern and Bowling Green.

Saying Michigan is in the same category as Northwestern and Bowling Green is like saying Mars is the same distance from Earth as Pluto.

Neither Mars nor Pluto are playing for championships. Does it really matter how far away they are?

I bet you're the guy who coaches 7-year-old flag football and starts screaming at the players for no reason and breaks down into tears after the 7-year-olds lose, because since they didn't win the championship, the season was a waste according to you and your ridiculous, outdated logic.
But anyways, you really mean to tell me that Michigan's 2019 season, in which they went 9-4 and finished ranked top 20 in the nation, was no more successful than Bowling Green's, who went 3-9 and lost 7 games by 39+ points?

[NWI_Irish96]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

In this century, the only teams in the region that have been to a BCS Championshp Game/College Football Playoff are Ohio State and Notre Dame. Michigan is grouped with the rest of the also-rans like Northwestern and Bowling Green.

Saying Michigan is in the same category as Northwestern and Bowling Green is like saying Mars is the same distance from Earth as Pluto.

Neither Mars nor Pluto are playing for championships. Does it really matter how far away they are?

I bet you're the guy who coaches 7-year-old flag football and starts screaming at the players for no reason and breaks down into tears after the 7-year-olds lose, because since they didn't win the championship, the season was a waste according to you and your ridiculous, outdated logic.
But anyways, you really mean to tell me that Michigan's 2019 season, in which they went 9-4 and finished ranked top 20 in the nation, was no more successful than Bowling Green's, who went 3-9 and lost 7 games by 39+ points?

7 year olds are playing to learn football, not to win championships.

Was Michigan's 2019 season better than Bowling Green's? Yes. Does it matter in the scope of the entire last 20 seasons? No.

[SEWIGuy]

The other side of the tOSU/Michigan Rivalry, but ask former Buckeye coach John Cooper how well winning most games each year and winning/sharing Big Ten Titles, while stilll losing to Michigan, worked out. Pretty sure it cost him the job.

From his Wikipedia article:

...(H)e quickly turned the Buckeyes around and led them to shared Big Ten titles in 1993, 1996, and 1998. In his 13 seasons at Ohio State, Cooper compiled a 111—43—4 record; his 111 victories are second in Ohio State history behind only Woody Hayes's 205. Among his most memorable victories at Ohio State were back-to-back victories against Notre Dame (1995 and 1996), leading Ohio State to its first Rose Bowl in 13 years (the 1997 Rose Bowl–a win over Arizona State), and a 1999 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas A&M...

...However, Cooper has also been remembered for his 3—8 bowl record and his 2—10—1 record against archrival Michigan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cooper_(American_football)?wprov=sfti1

Beating your #1 Rival is important in NCAA Div I-A/Div I FBS Football

In this century, the only teams in the region that have been to a BCS Championshp Game/College Football Playoff are Ohio State and Notre Dame. Michigan is grouped with the rest of the also-rans like Northwestern and Bowling Green.

Saying Michigan is in the same category as Northwestern and Bowling Green is like saying Mars is the same distance from Earth as Pluto.

Neither Mars nor Pluto are playing for championships. Does it really matter how far away they are?

I bet you're the guy who coaches 7-year-old flag football and starts screaming at the players for no reason and breaks down into tears after the 7-year-olds lose, because since they didn't win the championship, the season was a waste according to you and your ridiculous, outdated logic.
But anyways, you really mean to tell me that Michigan's 2019 season, in which they went 9-4 and finished ranked top 20 in the nation, was no more successful than Bowling Green's, who went 3-9 and lost 7 games by 39+ points?

7 year olds are playing to learn football, not to win championships.

Was Michigan's 2019 season better than Bowling Green's? Yes. Does it matter in the scope of the entire last 20 seasons? No.

Of course it does. Silly nonsense.

[hbelkins]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

They did, Nebraska specifically.

[SEWIGuy]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

I don't think there's a lot of truth to this. 

[thspfc]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

I don't think there's a lot of truth to this.

This whole thing with the B1G is totally asinine to me. The players and coaches have loudly and clearly voiced their desire to play. Sure, they're not doctors, but neither are the people who made the choice to cancel the season. And now the conference is threatening to kick out anyone who plays like they're a group of 12 year olds playing pickup basketball at a park. It's childish, it's nonsensical, and frankly it's borderline criminal. These athletes have been working their behinds off their whole lives, only for 25% of their time at the highest level they will ever be (for most) to be wiped out.

[NWI_Irish96]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

I don't think there's a lot of truth to this.

This whole thing with the B1G is totally asinine to me. The players and coaches have loudly and clearly voiced their desire to play. Sure, they're not doctors, but neither are the people who made the choice to cancel the season. And now the conference is threatening to kick out anyone who plays like they're a group of 12 year olds playing pickup basketball at a park. It's childish, it's nonsensical, and frankly it's borderline criminal. These athletes have been working their behinds off their whole lives, only for 25% of their time at the highest level they will ever be (for most) to be wiped out.

There are fairly new studies that indicate that young people who get COVID and are mostly or entirely asymptomatic still experience significant heart damage. For an athlete who is (hopefullly) heading to the NFL and pushing himself to ridiculous physical limits, that's a recipe for a major heart attack before age 40.

Doctors didn't directly make the choice to cancel the season, but their input was clearly heavily considered.

We know now that COVID directly kills a very small percentage of people who are for the most part elderly. What we won't know for 20+ years is how permanent the damage is for the very large percentage of people who don't die.

[Alps]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

I don't think there's a lot of truth to this.

This whole thing with the B1G is totally asinine to me. The players and coaches have loudly and clearly voiced their desire to play. Sure, they're not doctors, but neither are the people who made the choice to cancel the season. And now the conference is threatening to kick out anyone who plays like they're a group of 12 year olds playing pickup basketball at a park. It's childish, it's nonsensical, and frankly it's borderline criminal. These athletes have been working their behinds off their whole lives, only for 25% of their time at the highest level they will ever be (for most) to be wiped out.

There are fairly new studies that indicate that young people who get COVID and are mostly or entirely asymptomatic still experience significant heart damage. For an athlete who is (hopefullly) heading to the NFL and pushing himself to ridiculous physical limits, that's a recipe for a major heart attack before age 40.

Doctors didn't directly make the choice to cancel the season, but their input was clearly heavily considered.

We know now that COVID directly kills a very small percentage of people who are for the most part elderly. What we won't know for 20+ years is how permanent the damage is for the very large percentage of people who don't die.

I'm a strong fan of cancelling sports for one whole damn season. Everyone suffers the same. They'll be drafted and paid.

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

I don't think there's a lot of truth to this.

This whole thing with the B1G is totally asinine to me. The players and coaches have loudly and clearly voiced their desire to play. Sure, they're not doctors, but neither are the people who made the choice to cancel the season. And now the conference is threatening to kick out anyone who plays like they're a group of 12 year olds playing pickup basketball at a park. It's childish, it's nonsensical, and frankly it's borderline criminal. These athletes have been working their behinds off their whole lives, only for 25% of their time at the highest level they will ever be (for most) to be wiped out.

There are fairly new studies that indicate that young people who get COVID and are mostly or entirely asymptomatic still experience significant heart damage. For an athlete who is (hopefullly) heading to the NFL and pushing himself to ridiculous physical limits, that's a recipe for a major heart attack before age 40.

Doctors didn't directly make the choice to cancel the season, but their input was clearly heavily considered.

We know now that COVID directly kills a very small percentage of people who are for the most part elderly. What we won't know for 20+ years is how permanent the damage is for the very large percentage of people who don't die.

Conversely, if I'm some guy who's borderline for the NFL draft then I would probably would be willing to play to boost my chances of getting an NFL contract.  That potential windfall certainly would make me (and I would imagine a lot of other people) willing to take some risks with my health 2-3 decades down the line.  I'm not saying that's a stance an educational institution should take, but I can underrated the frustration of some athlete who might have their chances negatively altered for a professional career.  It also raises a serious question in my mind why it's okay for the NCAA Power Conference schools to run their football and basketball programs like the developmental leagues for the NFL and NBA. 

[thspfc]

Speaking of Michigan, I read a story yesterday that Ohio State and a number of other B1G schools want to get around the cancellation of the conference schedule by creating a six-team conference to play a limited schedule in the fall. Iowa, Nebraska, Penn State, and tOSU were four of the six. They wanted Michigan to be part of the coalition, but Michigan said no.

Didn't the B1G threaten to kick out any school that played football this fall?

I don't think there's a lot of truth to this.

This whole thing with the B1G is totally asinine to me. The players and coaches have loudly and clearly voiced their desire to play. Sure, they're not doctors, but neither are the people who made the choice to cancel the season. And now the conference is threatening to kick out anyone who plays like they're a group of 12 year olds playing pickup basketball at a park. It's childish, it's nonsensical, and frankly it's borderline criminal. These athletes have been working their behinds off their whole lives, only for 25% of their time at the highest level they will ever be (for most) to be wiped out.

There are fairly new studies that indicate that young people who get COVID and are mostly or entirely asymptomatic still experience significant heart damage. For an athlete who is (hopefullly) heading to the NFL and pushing himself to ridiculous physical limits, that's a recipe for a major heart attack before age 40.

Doctors didn't directly make the choice to cancel the season, but their input was clearly heavily considered.

We know now that COVID directly kills a very small percentage of people who are for the most part elderly. What we won't know for 20+ years is how permanent the damage is for the very large percentage of people who don't die.

I'm a strong fan of cancelling sports for one whole damn season. Everyone suffers the same. They'll be drafted and paid.

98% of them will not be drafted or paid.