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Author Topic: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure  (Read 1700 times)

kphoger

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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2020, 12:56:53 PM »


I don't see any reason a university should be in the same town as the state legislature.

I think the idea is that the only two important things in that part of the state should be in the same city, not two cities 25 miles apart.

I don't necessarily agree — there are several other examples of twin cities that aren't adjacent, such as Carson City and Reno.

If the two were related, then I guess I could agree.  But, in my opinion, it's like expecting a state's airport to be in the same town as the stockyards.  What does the one have to do with the other?  For that matter, I don't see why a university needs to be in a large city at all.  I considered going to college in a town of about 7000 population, and my daughter attends university in a town of about 4000 population.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2020, 01:11:22 PM »

I wonder what would be cheaper to do, move the University to Indianapolis or move the Capitol to Bloomington?

To claim that Michigan State is the premier institution because it's right next door to Lansing would infuriate more than one Wolverine!

I'm surprised Oxford MS and Tuscaloosa AL are supposed to be the capitals of their states too.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2020, 01:16:35 PM »


I don't see any reason a university should be in the same town as the state legislature.

I think the idea is that the only two important things in that part of the state should be in the same city, not two cities 25 miles apart.

I don't necessarily agree — there are several other examples of twin cities that aren't adjacent, such as Carson City and Reno.

If the two were related, then I guess I could agree.  But, in my opinion, it's like expecting a state's airport to be in the same town as the stockyards.  What does the one have to do with the other?  For that matter, I don't see why a university needs to be in a large city at all.  I considered going to college in a town of about 7000 population, and my daughter attends university in a town of about 4000 population.

It's not so much that the two are related, but that there could be certain synergies with having them nearby.  I see a university could have specialized programs catering to public service (internships and similar) because state government agency headquarters are nearby.  Also, while a capital does not necessarily need to be the biggest city in a state, it should still be a sizable place with reasonable amenities.  Service on major interstates and other transportation corridors are amenities.  Cultural institutions like museums, performing arts centers, and yes, universities are also amenities.  A capital should be geographically central and also an important town with respect to the state.

Columbia is MO's 4th largest city, and the largest city in the central part of the state.  Jefferson City is 15th. 
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2020, 01:20:35 PM »


I don't see any reason a university should be in the same town as the state legislature.

I think the idea is that the only two important things in that part of the state should be in the same city, not two cities 25 miles apart.

I don't necessarily agree — there are several other examples of twin cities that aren't adjacent, such as Carson City and Reno.

If the two were related, then I guess I could agree.  But, in my opinion, it's like expecting a state's airport to be in the same town as the stockyards.  What does the one have to do with the other?  For that matter, I don't see why a university needs to be in a large city at all.  I considered going to college in a town of about 7000 population, and my daughter attends university in a town of about 4000 population.

I’ve always felt the U of M being in Minneapolis takes away greatly from the charm of the concept. To me Dinkytown is just another part of Minneapolis indistinguishable from any other part.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2020, 01:35:44 PM »

To claim that Michigan State is the premier institution because it's right next door to Lansing would infuriate more than one Wolverine Walverine!

The only people who seem to get upset are those who never went to either yet buy their UM gear at Walmart.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2020, 01:57:07 PM »


I don't see any reason a university should be in the same town as the state legislature.

I think the idea is that the only two important things in that part of the state should be in the same city, not two cities 25 miles apart.

I don't necessarily agree — there are several other examples of twin cities that aren't adjacent, such as Carson City and Reno.

If the two were related, then I guess I could agree.  But, in my opinion, it's like expecting a state's airport to be in the same town as the stockyards.  What does the one have to do with the other?  For that matter, I don't see why a university needs to be in a large city at all.  I considered going to college in a town of about 7000 population, and my daughter attends university in a town of about 4000 population.

Having a top tier public university in your state capital ensures that you have one of the state's best hospitals in your state capital. It also gives the university access to spouses of state government employees and vice versa.  It's a really natural fit.

As for private universities and liberal arts colleges, I don't think it matters a whole lot how close to a state capital they are.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2020, 02:46:08 PM »

I don't know about THE state university (capitalization intentional; more on that to follow) being in the capital city, but I think there are geographical advantages to both being somewhat near the center of the state.

Kentucky only has one major state university that purports to represent the entire state, UK. Kentucky State University is in Frankfort and has a partnership with state government, but it's a historically black college. The University of Louisville is also under state control. Frankfort draws employees from both cities, even though it's not equidistant between them. KSU is more like a regional school like EKU, WKU, Morehead and Murray.

Our setup is more like Ohio's, where the main state school (tOSU, hence my reference to "the" earlier) is in the capital and geographical center, while Ohio University is in an obscure place in a corner of the state, Athens. Similarly, in Indiana, IU is in Bloomington, not far from the capital and geographical center; while ISU is in Terre Haute and isn't as big of a school.

We aren't like Kansas, Mississippi, Iowa, Oklahoma, Michigan, Florida, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, or other states with two main schools (University of State or State-Name University, and then State-Name State University). I'm presuming those examples are valid because both of those schools in each state are members of the big athletic conferences.

What puzzles me is those states where the state schools are in far-flung places, like Arkansas and West Virginia. Why were the schools placed in a remote area far from the state's opposite corner, instead of in a central city closer to more of the population? WVU's more natural geographical rival isn't Marshall, it's Pitt.
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kphoger

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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2020, 03:19:16 PM »

Kansas

...whose two chief state universities are in neither the capital nor largest city.  I've never heard anyone suggest that's a bad thing or doesn't work well.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2020, 10:16:05 PM »

Kansas
...whose two chief state universities are in neither the capital nor largest city.  I've never heard anyone suggest that's a bad thing or doesn't work well.

Lawrence happens to be right between the capital city and the largest metro area (not city, as I just realized... glad I double checked, as I wouldn't have wanted to insult your hometown ;-)), and is still reasonably centrally located for most of the state's population. If it was Dodge City instead of Lawrence, I think you would have plenty of people saying it's a bad thing and/or doesn't work well.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2020, 02:09:22 AM »

I'm surprised Oxford MS and Tuscaloosa AL are supposed to be the capitals of their states too.

Tuscaloosa was the capital before it was moved to Montgomery.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2020, 07:54:59 AM »


I don't see any reason a university should be in the same town as the state legislature.

I think the idea is that the only two important things in that part of the state should be in the same city, not two cities 25 miles apart.

I don't necessarily agree — there are several other examples of twin cities that aren't adjacent, such as Carson City and Reno.

If the two were related, then I guess I could agree.  But, in my opinion, it's like expecting a state's airport to be in the same town as the stockyards.  What does the one have to do with the other?  For that matter, I don't see why a university needs to be in a large city at all.  I considered going to college in a town of about 7000 population, and my daughter attends university in a town of about 4000 population.

Having a top tier public university in your state capital ensures that you have one of the state's best hospitals in your state capital. It also gives the university access to spouses of state government employees and vice versa.  It's a really natural fit.

As for private universities and liberal arts colleges, I don't think it matters a whole lot how close to a state capital they are.


Growing up in Madison, I am sure there are some "synergies" like you mention, but had the University or capital been elsewhere, I don't think it would have mattered much.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2020, 02:56:50 PM »


I don't see any reason a university should be in the same town as the state legislature.

I think the idea is that the only two important things in that part of the state should be in the same city, not two cities 25 miles apart.

I don't necessarily agree — there are several other examples of twin cities that aren't adjacent, such as Carson City and Reno.

If the two were related, then I guess I could agree.  But, in my opinion, it's like expecting a state's airport to be in the same town as the stockyards.  What does the one have to do with the other?  For that matter, I don't see why a university needs to be in a large city at all.  I considered going to college in a town of about 7000 population, and my daughter attends university in a town of about 4000 population.

It's not so much that the two are related, but that there could be certain synergies with having them nearby.  I see a university could have specialized programs catering to public service (internships and similar) because state government agency headquarters are nearby.  Also, while a capital does not necessarily need to be the biggest city in a state, it should still be a sizable place with reasonable amenities.  Service on major interstates and other transportation corridors are amenities.  Cultural institutions like museums, performing arts centers, and yes, universities are also amenities.  A capital should be geographically central and also an important town with respect to the state.

Columbia is MO's 4th largest city, and the largest city in the central part of the state.  Jefferson City is 15th.

While I haven't been in Missouri very long, I can say with a good deal of certainty that Jefferson City is not very important to most residents of the state. An average Missourian could probably point to Columbia (and identify it as the home of MU) on a map quicker than to JC (and identify it as the state capitol), though I may be biased in saying this. Even in Columbia, Jeff City is not very prominent (only being of prominence to administrators and poli sci students), despite that they may be grouped together elsewhere. That said, even though they are ultimately separated by 30 miles and have distinct identities, the two cities are ultimately fairly cohesive. Both are small fry, though, compared to KC and St. Louis which dominate perceptions of Missouri both within and out of the state (by nature).

Just on a tangent, isn't the/a main university being in the capital an exception to the rule? Only four (Texas, Wisconsin, LSU, FSU) spring to mind.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2020, 03:21:26 PM »

Just on a tangent, isn't the/a main university being in the capital an exception to the rule? Only four (Texas, Wisconsin, LSU, FSU) spring to mind.

Utah and South Carolina as well.

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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2020, 04:59:46 PM »

Just on a tangent, isn't the/a main university being in the capital an exception to the rule? Only four (Texas, Wisconsin, LSU, FSU) spring to mind.

Utah and South Carolina as well.

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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2020, 05:00:09 PM »

Just on a tangent, isn't the/a main university being in the capital an exception to the rule? Only four (Texas, Wisconsin, LSU, FSU) spring to mind.

Utah and South Carolina as well.

NC State, Georgia Tech, Nebraska, Hawaii, Ohio State.

While technically not in the same city, Michigan State's campus is about 3 miles from the state capitol building and Arizona State is about 10 miles.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2020, 06:46:09 PM »

On a navicable waterway was a factor in placing many of the capitals through the late 1800s.  You can still move a lot more goods by barge than you can by road or rail.
Vallejo and Benicia were once State Capitals for California in the 1850's over waterway navigation before Sacramento became the permanent state capital for the state in 1854.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benicia_Capitol_State_Historic_Park
Never San Francisco or Oakland?

Not under the US as a territory or state as far as I know. The Spanish, the New Spanish, and the Mexicans had capitols in other places, however (most notably Monterey).

Some confusion may result from the fact that the State Supreme Court often sits in San Francisco (and may have done so since territorial times).

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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2020, 11:35:38 PM »

An oddity in Michigan is that central location wins most of the time or at least center of population. But the oddity is that Lansing isn't the county seat of the county most of the city is located in. It's mostly in Ingham County who's county seat is Mason and some of Lansing dips into Eaton County who's county seat is Charlotte, in both cases they are centrally located in their respective counties.

Lansing is the only state capital out of capitals located in counties that is not also the county seat. Btw, Marshall was real close to being the capital instead of Lansing. Lansing won by like two votes.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2020, 11:38:04 PM »

Lansing is close to the center of population now but don't know about when it became the capital. The geographic center of the state is in Wexford County near Cadillac. The geographic center of the Lower Peninsula is near or in St. Louis.

1847.  Detroit was the state capital prior to that (1837-47), and the territorial capital as well.
Yeah I knew Detroit use to be the capital. That's why they have Capital Park downtown. Back then Detroit only went out to Grand Blvd. too.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2020, 11:40:24 PM »

To claim that Michigan State is the premier institution because it's right next door to Lansing would infuriate more than one Wolverine Walverine!

The only people who seem to get upset are those who never went to either yet buy their UM gear at Walmart.
Glad I'm not in that club I hate Walmart and refuse to shop there.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2020, 04:24:08 AM »


I don't see any reason a university should be in the same town as the state legislature.

I think the idea is that the only two important things in that part of the state should be in the same city, not two cities 25 miles apart.

I don't necessarily agree — there are several other examples of twin cities that aren't adjacent, such as Carson City and Reno.

If the two were related, then I guess I could agree.  But, in my opinion, it's like expecting a state's airport to be in the same town as the stockyards.  What does the one have to do with the other?  For that matter, I don't see why a university needs to be in a large city at all.  I considered going to college in a town of about 7000 population, and my daughter attends university in a town of about 4000 population.

It's not so much that the two are related, but that there could be certain synergies with having them nearby.  I see a university could have specialized programs catering to public service (internships and similar) because state government agency headquarters are nearby.  Also, while a capital does not necessarily need to be the biggest city in a state, it should still be a sizable place with reasonable amenities.  Service on major interstates and other transportation corridors are amenities.  Cultural institutions like museums, performing arts centers, and yes, universities are also amenities.  A capital should be geographically central and also an important town with respect to the state.

Columbia is MO's 4th largest city, and the largest city in the central part of the state.  Jefferson City is 15th.

While I haven't been in Missouri very long, I can say with a good deal of certainty that Jefferson City is not very important to most residents of the state. An average Missourian could probably point to Columbia (and identify it as the home of MU) on a map quicker than to JC (and identify it as the state capitol), though I may be biased in saying this. Even in Columbia, Jeff City is not very prominent (only being of prominence to administrators and poli sci students), despite that they may be grouped together elsewhere. That said, even though they are ultimately separated by 30 miles and have distinct identities, the two cities are ultimately fairly cohesive. Both are small fry, though, compared to KC and St. Louis which dominate perceptions of Missouri both within and out of the state (by nature).

When I went to college in Springfield, MO, at one point I mentioned that I should probably drive up to Jeff City and check it out sometime. My roommates, all of whom were native Missourians, looked at me as if I had taken temporary leave of my senses and wanted to know why, of all places, I'd want to go there? Columbia, they understood; one of them made a trip up to Columbia to visit friends at Mizzou at some point (and came back with a Stop sign for our dorm, somehow, an addition to the common room which I approved of, of course).

I never did make it up to Jeff City. Guess, deep down, I felt the same way about it that they did.

Quote
Just on a tangent, isn't the/a main university being in the capital an exception to the rule? Only four (Texas, Wisconsin, LSU, FSU) spring to mind.

OU is in Norman, which is in the Oklahoma City MSA. Looking at the map, most people would consider Norman an OKC suburb, and the west half of it more or less is, but the east half has more of a college-town feel. In any case, Norman is the third-largest city in Oklahoma, so that may count against OU being more or less in "Oklahoma City, more or less." In any case, OU has their medical center in OKC, literally right down the street from the State Capitol, so it does get one of those "synergies" that was mentioned upthread.

OSU has a branch campus in OKC, but their main campus is in Stillwater. I believe their medical center is in Tulsa.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2020, 05:09:10 AM »

In Spain there's no obscurity at the provincial level, as provinces tend to have the name of its capital. The few that don't, the capital is the largest city (the exception being Asturias, where Gijon is sightly larger than the capital Oviedo, but in the past it was called Province of Oviedo). Here it is more, "Why there isn't a province of Vigo?" Vigo is far larger than the provincial capital Pontevedra (295K vs 83K), however the fact it's not the capital of a province has led me to call it the largest "town" in Spain, not without controversy.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2020, 11:07:11 AM »

Massachusetts does not have it's flagship university in Boston. It's in Amherst out west. There is Umass Boston but it's kinda no good.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2020, 06:49:38 PM »

Cambridge, in the Boston MSA, has Harvard and MIT, though, which I think are probably more well-known than UMass.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2020, 07:03:58 PM »

Cambridge, in the Boston MSA, has Harvard and MIT, though, which I think are probably more well-known than UMass.

I thought the point was about state schools being with the state capital, not private schools.
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Re: Capital Cities Ranked from Most Obvious to Most Obscure
« Reply #99 on: May 25, 2020, 08:27:32 PM »

Cambridge, in the Boston MSA, has Harvard and MIT, though, which I think are probably more well-known than UMass.

I thought the point was about state schools being with the state capital, not private schools.


Is MIT not a state school? Hell, shows what I know.
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