Iowa says US-20 is too dangerous in Illinois

[kphoger]

The Panzier Road bridge over Rayse Creek in Jefferson County collapsed in 2015 due to failed substructure just after a gravel truck crossed it.  IDOT replaced it as project #9-10498-0000, listed with the 2015 fiscal year projects.  I haven't been able to locate the results of the investigation, but news outlets reported at the time that "The bridge had a satisfactory rating on a national evaluation [in 2014]."

This bridge collapsed in 2013. Civil Engineer Scott Graham from WJE Associates was hired to investigate and found that the pilings were faulty when driven in 1977. Seems the bridge collapsed after a gravel truck had just passed over, he saw the bridge fall in his mirror. Recent movement of heavy trucks on the bridge was causing the pilings to flex in the bed of Rayse Creek.

How could it have collapsed in 2013, when all the news articles about its collapse are from 2015, and when a 2014 evaluation was cited?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but why did IDOT replace a county bridge?  Is that SOP?

[edwaleni]

I'm more amused at the "no one outside Illinois is allowed to criticize IDOT"  implication.

How could you even want to when your DOT had a whole bridge collapse? Never happened here.

Cause IDOT sucks? It's not like I've never been to Illinois.

Least we've never had a bridge collapse like MN did. And have miles of better pavement than WI which has 81% of it's pavement in poor condition vs just 16 for IL.

Umm, Crash. You may want to do some research on bridges in Illinois before claiming that it "never" happens here.
Dixon, IL - May 4, 1873 - Trusedale Bridge - 46 killed, 56 injured because of a design flaw.

No need to go back that far in history.  The Panzier Road bridge over Rayse Creek in Jefferson County collapsed in 2015 due to failed substructure just after a gravel truck crossed it.  IDOT replaced it as project #9-10498-0000, listed with the 2015 fiscal year projects.  I haven't been able to locate the results of the investigation, but news outlets reported at the time that "The bridge had a satisfactory rating on a national evaluation [in 2014]."

This bridge collapsed in 2013. Civil Engineer Scott Graham from WJE Associates was hired to investigate and found that the pilings were faulty when driven in 1977. Seems the bridge collapsed after a gravel truck had just passed over, he saw the bridge fall in his mirror. Recent movement of heavy trucks on the bridge was causing the pilings to flex in the bed of Rayse Creek.

Sounds like an overweight issue that the bridge couldn't handle after multiple heavy crossings. Wonder if they had weight restriction signs leading up to the bridge

The bridge was carrying a 80,000 GVWR when it collapsed. There were no restrictions. The gravel truck that had passed over was under the rating.

As for whose DOT is better, I really don't give 1 hoot. Every state has the right to fund their highways as they please under the law. If a road is untrustworthy then i will not use it.

It is a known fact that many states east of the Mississippi overspent on new construction after WW2 and are now "paying the piper" to replace/maintain them.

In some cases, those states have chosen to starve their highway maintenance funds in order to prop up public employee pay and their pensions. In other cases some states rely more on the Feds for highway funding because they don't have a strong local tax base.

In Illinois's case, they had a lot of political pull in the 50's and 60's and were able to get a lot new ROW built out. After 1973, that started to dribble down until I-255 was finally finished. As the US population shifted south and west, Illinois has lost a ton of its influence in the House, where the money decisions are made. Large plans made in good faith post WW2 fell to the wayside as other priorities took over. Every state is coping with this in their own ways.

[edwaleni]

The Panzier Road bridge over Rayse Creek in Jefferson County collapsed in 2015 due to failed substructure just after a gravel truck crossed it.  IDOT replaced it as project #9-10498-0000, listed with the 2015 fiscal year projects.  I haven't been able to locate the results of the investigation, but news outlets reported at the time that "The bridge had a satisfactory rating on a national evaluation [in 2014]."

This bridge collapsed in 2013. Civil Engineer Scott Graham from WJE Associates was hired to investigate and found that the pilings were faulty when driven in 1977. Seems the bridge collapsed after a gravel truck had just passed over, he saw the bridge fall in his mirror. Recent movement of heavy trucks on the bridge was causing the pilings to flex in the bed of Rayse Creek.

How could it have collapsed in 2013, when all the news articles about its collapse are from 2015, and when a 2014 evaluation was cited?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but why did IDOT replace a county bridge?  Is that SOP?

2013 - Collapse
2014 - Analysis of collapse
2015 - Replacement Construction

I don't know why IDOT paid to replace it. It's possible IDOT had a large project on IL-15 west of Mt Vernon and the contracted aggregate provider was using the road to come north from the quarry.

[Rick Powell]

I don't know why IDOT paid to replace it. It's possible IDOT had a large project on IL-15 west of Mt Vernon and the contracted aggregate provider was using the road to come north from the quarry.

The project # indicates a local project (probably paid with IDOT distributed local MFT funds but might also have other eligible state or federal funding) but placed on the statewide IDOT letting. There are plenty of other similar local projects on every statewide letting. And IDOT's Local Roads provides a lot of support and advice for local agencies who wouldn't have the resources to hire an expert on their own, under their "technology transfer" programs.

[Henry]

This means that the ball is in IDOT's court now; hopefully they'll upgrade the remaining at-grade portions of US 20 between the Mississippi and Rockford to at least expressway, if not freeway. But this being what they are, they'll probably hold off on any such project as long as they can, at least until the complaints about it are heard loud enough to change their minds.

[JoePCool14]

Last I looked, IDOT usually has crappier pavement.  WisFOT freeways are nice and smooth.  IDOT, not so much.

Wisconsin Failure of Transportation

Just kidding of course, I overall prefer WisDOT to IDOT. The condition of pavement across the two states is a bit hard to quantify merely based on anecdotes, but WisDOT is significantly better in my opinion at incorporating modern and better designs in their roadways. Slip lanes, roundabouts, flyovers, and also better freeway signage.

[triplemultiplex]

In my extensive experience driving all over both IL and WI; neither has much to brag about in terms of pavement quality of state-maintained highways.  The rural two laners are the real equalizer.  It's an obstacle course out there.

WisDOT is looking at a mountain of maintenance this decade as all of those 4 lane corridors they expanded in the 80's and 90's come due for new pavement.  Any of those roads where the concrete 'sings' from the transverse grooves are gonna be old enough to be in this category. 

[rte66man]

WisDOT is looking at a mountain of maintenance this decade as all of those 4 lane corridors they expanded in the 80's and 90's come due for new pavement.  Any of those roads where the concrete 'sings' from the transverse grooves are gonna be old enough to be in this category. 

Why did they use tranverse grooves? It was well-known by that time that they were far noisier. than parallel grooves.

[triplemultiplex]

Probably they still had some cats at WisDOT who insisted transverse grooves provide better traction.
Bureaucracy is slow to change, ya know?

[hotdogPi]

Parallel grooves are very dangerous for bicycles, as the wheels get stuck.

[triplemultiplex]

Generally, not an issue on rural expressways/freeways.

[NWI_Irish96]

I drove US 20 from Rockford to Dubuque for the first time today. Even on what I would expect is a lighter than normal day, it definitely does have heavier traffic than most 2-lane highways. There are passing lanes interspersed that seem to be sufficient, with the possible exception of the first several miles after it goes down to 2 lanes from 4 near Freeport.

There are spots where I think the terrain would make it hard to fully expand to 4 lanes.

[3467]

There are more coming in the current plan in that area.

[edwaleni]

I drove US 20 from Rockford to Dubuque for the first time today. Even on what I would expect is a lighter than normal day, it definitely does have heavier traffic than most 2-lane highways. There are passing lanes interspersed that seem to be sufficient, with the possible exception of the first several miles after it goes down to 2 lanes from 4 near Freeport.

There are spots where I think the terrain would make it hard to fully expand to 4 lanes.

The 2 plans out there both use primarily new terrain.

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

[SSOWorld]

I drove US 20 from Rockford to Dubuque for the first time today. Even on what I would expect is a lighter than normal day, it definitely does have heavier traffic than most 2-lane highways. There are passing lanes interspersed that seem to be sufficient, with the possible exception of the first several miles after it goes down to 2 lanes from 4 near Freeport.

There are spots where I think the terrain would make it hard to fully expand to 4 lanes.

The 2 plans out there both use primarily new terrain.

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

That's IDOT for ya.  The road that crosses at grade is the original US-20 right-of-way and runs through residential areas at higher speeds than designed.

[triplemultiplex]

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

"Ah, don't worry.  We can build the other half in a few years when we get more funding..."
<50 years later>
"Dang."

[3467]

Cabiness. It's been years since I drove it. I got the impression of would be fairly easy to add passing lanes though.

[CtrlAltDel]

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

Do you mean here?:

[I-39]

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

Do you mean here?:

Yes.

That's another thing about US 20 between Rockford and Dubuque. Not only do they still need to four lane the section between Freeport and Galena, but they also really need to redo the four lane west of Galena to the bridge (i.e, grade it properly, realign the lanes so there is no awkward separation with houses in the median, widen the shoulders, etc).

[Revive 755]

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

Yet Missouri did a similar design on US 36 between Macon and Hannibal.  Google aerial.

That's IDOT for ya.  The road that crosses at grade is the original US-20 right-of-way and runs through residential areas at higher speeds than designed.

Missouri had a similar split design for MO 13 north of Springfield.  Though that one had enough wrecks for MoDOT to build a new set of northbound lanes and eliminate the split alignment.

[edwaleni]

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

Yet Missouri did a similar design on US 36 between Macon and Hannibal.  Google aerial.

That's IDOT for ya.  The road that crosses at grade is the original US-20 right-of-way and runs through residential areas at higher speeds than designed.

Missouri had a similar split design for MO 13 north of Springfield.  Though that one had enough wrecks for MoDOT to build a new set of northbound lanes and eliminate the split alignment.

Yes, US 36 in Missouri has plenty of these weird aberrations as well. Like the split with a railroad grade south of Bucklin. New grade going east gets a bridge over the tracks, old grade going west gets a 14 foot clearance, no shoulder underpass from the 1940's. Just west of it is total confusion where exactly a four lane division is going to take place with ghost pavement on both sides.

[CtrlAltDel]

Just west of it is total confusion where exactly a four lane division is going to take place with ghost pavement on both sides.

If you're referring to this, then I agree that that is definitely very weird:

[I-39]

I think that part where the westbound lanes crossover on a bridge and the eastbound lanes cross a road at grade is one of the most embarrassing, cheapo, unsafe design parts of it.

Yet Missouri did a similar design on US 36 between Macon and Hannibal.  Google aerial.

That's IDOT for ya.  The road that crosses at grade is the original US-20 right-of-way and runs through residential areas at higher speeds than designed.

Missouri had a similar split design for MO 13 north of Springfield.  Though that one had enough wrecks for MoDOT to build a new set of northbound lanes and eliminate the split alignment.

Yes, US 36 in Missouri has plenty of these weird aberrations as well. Like the split with a railroad grade south of Bucklin. New grade going east gets a bridge over the tracks, old grade going west gets a 14 foot clearance, no shoulder underpass from the 1940's. Just west of it is total confusion where exactly a four lane division is going to take place with ghost pavement on both sides.

MoDOT really took the cheap way out when four laning US 36 between Hannibal and Cameron. Not totally surprising given their lack of funding, but if it were to ever be upgraded to I-72 (not happening anytime soon), they would have their work cut out for them in fixing the deficient sections of the highway to meet interstate standards.

[edwaleni]

Just west of it is total confusion where exactly a four lane division is going to take place with ghost pavement on both sides.

If you're referring to this, then I agree that that is definitely very weird:

Yep, thats it. Been like that since 1984 from the aerials.

[3467]

I was looking at the old ROD. Since nothing has been done since 2005 there would have to be a new EIS. Also the purpose and need. Part is valid the road is old but increasing volumes never happened. Also IDOT has no study planned just the improvement to the existing road.