Our Highways are NOT crumbling

[Max Rockatansky]

I propose we merge all these kernals12 threads together and title it "Compilation: kernals12 in one thread".  They all seem to have the same format:

-A very specific thread title and initial post with cherry-picked data and baseless claims to back the pro-highway agenda
-Critiques and arguments from those with more intimate knowledge of the issue, such as locals or DOT employees
-These critiques and arguments are then immediately dismissed by the OP with no real counterargument

Reads Fritzowl to me

For those who hadn't seen it, the OP is the person who, in a Fictional Highways thread, claims that nobody rides Amtrak, despite also claiming to live in the Boston area. Anyone who lives in the Northeast Corridor knows that (in non-pandemic times, anyway) the claim that "nobody rides Amtrak" is demonstrably false. I'd be riding Amtrak to New York more often than I have been if it weren't for the pandemic. I'm not going to make the absurd argument that Amtrak, or the airline shuttles, are perfect and are all that's needed, but I'm also not so stupid as to argue that simply upgrading and widening the highways is the only capacity that's needed in the Northeast Corridor. All three are important. (Among other issues, while I'm fortunate enough to have parking if I drive to New York for business, for most people parking is a huge expense and problem, and there are always the hassles of driving to where you need to be in the city–that is, kernals12's widened highways might just expedite your access to the backup to get through the Holland Tunnel.)

This 100%.  The demand for transportation in the northeast corridor is such that no one mode can handle the load - you need the planes, trains, & automobiles (& buses) to compliment each other!

One example: As congested as the Lincoln Tunnel is in the AM (pre-pandemic, anyway), imagine how much worse it would be if not for the heavy bus ridership and XBL to accommodate it.  What if all those bus riders drove by themselves instead?  What if (read: when) the North River Tunnels fail and all that rail traffic is pushed to either the PATH, or to the Holland/Lincoln Tunnels?

(Which brings me to another point: infrastructure trouble isn't limited to just highways - look no further than the aforementioned North River Tunnels, nearby Portal Bridge, and the long-stalled Gateway Program. But that's neither here nor there.)

Or perhaps an example closer to home for the OP: How about when an MBTA red line train derailed outside JFK/UMass in June 2019 and took out a bunch of signaling equipment, all during morning rush hour?  With the one transportation mode offline, others had to pick up the slack:

-I-93 became far more jammed than normal
-Ubers to downtown spiked to >$100
-The adjacent Commuter Rail honored subway fare to South Station and thus became far more crowded than usual

I'm sure the Mass Pike & I-95 would also be far more congested than they currently are if not for the Framingham/Worcester and Providence/Stoughton commuter rail lines running in those same corridors, respectively.  (And I-95 as a whole would certainly be far worse from DC to Boston if not for the Amtrak Northeast Corridor and multiple airline routes.)

Some random DOT employee is not a better source of information than the Federal Highway Administration.

And you're a better source than a DOT employee from the State you're referencing how?

[kernals12]

I'm not sure how the poverty line is defined; the list I gave was reasons that people could actually be living in poverty.

That is very likely due to the fact I pointed out earlier:

For one thing, every department seems to have its own definition of the poverty line ...

"The poverty line" doesn't exist.  There exists a multitude of poverty lines, each calculated according to the needs of the agency/department publishing the data.

If you want my take on it, the poverty line is only a figure for determining around where an area is doing money-wise. It can never be an exact science. (The way we calculate unemployment rates is also massively flawed, in my opinion. If we also count people who have given up looking for work and those that want to look but are not able, our numbers become much higher) There are a lot of other factors that might inhibit one's economic conditions that the poverty line doesn't account for. Local cost of living, internet access to name two additional factors, along with what 1 mentioned. You might be above the poverty line but you could still barely be cutting it. Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

I propose we merge all these kernals12 threads together and title it "Compilation: kernals12 in one thread".  They all seem to have the same format:

-A very specific thread title and initial post with cherry-picked data and baseless claims to back the pro-highway agenda
-Critiques and arguments from those with more intimate knowledge of the issue, such as locals or DOT employees
-These critiques and arguments are then immediately dismissed by the OP with no real counterargument

Reads Fritzowl to me

Dug this up:

That's not true
https://twitter.com/i/events/1136337266949931009?lang=en

[kphoger]

   

• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?

Yes.  Of the nations topping the HDI list, #2, #8, and #14 have no high speed rail, and #4 has no rail transport at all.

[index]

I'm not sure how the poverty line is defined; the list I gave was reasons that people could actually be living in poverty.

That is very likely due to the fact I pointed out earlier:

For one thing, every department seems to have its own definition of the poverty line ...

"The poverty line" doesn't exist.  There exists a multitude of poverty lines, each calculated according to the needs of the agency/department publishing the data.

If you want my take on it, the poverty line is only a figure for determining around where an area is doing money-wise. It can never be an exact science. (The way we calculate unemployment rates is also massively flawed, in my opinion. If we also count people who have given up looking for work and those that want to look but are not able, our numbers become much higher) There are a lot of other factors that might inhibit one's economic conditions that the poverty line doesn't account for. Local cost of living, internet access to name two additional factors, along with what 1 mentioned. You might be above the poverty line but you could still barely be cutting it. Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

I propose we merge all these kernals12 threads together and title it "Compilation: kernals12 in one thread".  They all seem to have the same format:

-A very specific thread title and initial post with cherry-picked data and baseless claims to back the pro-highway agenda
-Critiques and arguments from those with more intimate knowledge of the issue, such as locals or DOT employees
-These critiques and arguments are then immediately dismissed by the OP with no real counterargument

Reads Fritzowl to me

Dug this up:

That's not true
https://twitter.com/i/events/1136337266949931009?lang=en

That is the journalistic equivalent for an opinion piece suggesting climate change is not real.

Even federal statistics suggest otherwise: https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2019-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2018-dealing-with-unexpected-expenses.htm


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

https://thehub.santanderbank.com/60-americans-arent-prepared-unexpected-expense/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/most-americans-cant-afford-unexpected-expenses

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-surprise-400-expense/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/05/many-lack-a-financial-backstop-amid-pandemic/

https://www.lend360.org/fed-finds-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-400-emergency-expense/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

https://thehub.santanderbank.com/60-americans-arent-prepared-unexpected-expense/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/most-americans-cant-afford-unexpected-expenses

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-surprise-400-expense/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/05/many-lack-a-financial-backstop-amid-pandemic/

https://www.lend360.org/fed-finds-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-400-emergency-expense/

   

   
• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?

Yes.  Of the nations topping the HDI list, #2, #8, and #14 have no high speed rail, and #4 has no rail transport at all.

The United States lacks high speed rail where other developed nations of similar scale have succeeded. Therefore it lags behind other similar nations on high speed rail. That is not a very hard conclusion to make.Hong Kong also has access to high-speed rail.

[kernals12]

I'm not sure how the poverty line is defined; the list I gave was reasons that people could actually be living in poverty.

That is very likely due to the fact I pointed out earlier:

For one thing, every department seems to have its own definition of the poverty line ...

"The poverty line" doesn't exist.  There exists a multitude of poverty lines, each calculated according to the needs of the agency/department publishing the data.

If you want my take on it, the poverty line is only a figure for determining around where an area is doing money-wise. It can never be an exact science. (The way we calculate unemployment rates is also massively flawed, in my opinion. If we also count people who have given up looking for work and those that want to look but are not able, our numbers become much higher) There are a lot of other factors that might inhibit one's economic conditions that the poverty line doesn't account for. Local cost of living, internet access to name two additional factors, along with what 1 mentioned. You might be above the poverty line but you could still barely be cutting it. Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

I propose we merge all these kernals12 threads together and title it "Compilation: kernals12 in one thread".  They all seem to have the same format:

-A very specific thread title and initial post with cherry-picked data and baseless claims to back the pro-highway agenda
-Critiques and arguments from those with more intimate knowledge of the issue, such as locals or DOT employees
-These critiques and arguments are then immediately dismissed by the OP with no real counterargument

Reads Fritzowl to me

Dug this up:

That's not true
https://twitter.com/i/events/1136337266949931009?lang=en

That is the journalistic equivalent for an opinion piece suggesting climate change is not real.

Even federal statistics suggest otherwise: https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2019-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2018-dealing-with-unexpected-expenses.htm


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

https://thehub.santanderbank.com/60-americans-arent-prepared-unexpected-expense/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/most-americans-cant-afford-unexpected-expenses

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-surprise-400-expense/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/05/many-lack-a-financial-backstop-amid-pandemic/

https://www.lend360.org/fed-finds-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-400-emergency-expense/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

https://thehub.santanderbank.com/60-americans-arent-prepared-unexpected-expense/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/most-americans-cant-afford-unexpected-expenses

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-surprise-400-expense/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/05/many-lack-a-financial-backstop-amid-pandemic/

https://www.lend360.org/fed-finds-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-400-emergency-expense/

You didn't read the thread did you? It clearly explained why all of those articles are just clickbait. Just because someone wouldn't pay for a $400 expense in cash doesn't mean they can't. The same survey also found 85% of Americans would be able to pay their bills on time even with a $400 emergency expense.

[index]

You didn't read the thread did you? It clearly explained why all of those articles are just clickbait. Just because someone wouldn't pay for a $400 expense in cash doesn't mean they can't. The same survey also found 85% of Americans would be able to pay their bills on time even with a $400 emergency expense.

"This one statistic has a small technicality associated with it, therefore the economic struggle it depicts for many Americans doesn't actually exist. Checkmate!"

There is a reason that people aren't paying for these. How hard is it to just accept that things in this country suck for a lot of people? No matter how you put the data, we could be doing much better than how we are doing right now. No matter what technicalities you can claim, there's some other factor nullifying that. We lag behind other developed nations. Our traditional approaches are failing now. Otherwise we would not have as much upheaval in this country as we do nor would we be in the political situation we are in. Do you just not see it?

[kernals12]

I'm not sure how the poverty line is defined; the list I gave was reasons that people could actually be living in poverty.

That is very likely due to the fact I pointed out earlier:

For one thing, every department seems to have its own definition of the poverty line ...

"The poverty line" doesn't exist.  There exists a multitude of poverty lines, each calculated according to the needs of the agency/department publishing the data.

If you want my take on it, the poverty line is only a figure for determining around where an area is doing money-wise. It can never be an exact science. (The way we calculate unemployment rates is also massively flawed, in my opinion. If we also count people who have given up looking for work and those that want to look but are not able, our numbers become much higher) There are a lot of other factors that might inhibit one's economic conditions that the poverty line doesn't account for. Local cost of living, internet access to name two additional factors, along with what 1 mentioned. You might be above the poverty line but you could still barely be cutting it. Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

I propose we merge all these kernals12 threads together and title it "Compilation: kernals12 in one thread".  They all seem to have the same format:

-A very specific thread title and initial post with cherry-picked data and baseless claims to back the pro-highway agenda
-Critiques and arguments from those with more intimate knowledge of the issue, such as locals or DOT employees
-These critiques and arguments are then immediately dismissed by the OP with no real counterargument

Reads Fritzowl to me

Dug this up:

That's not true
https://twitter.com/i/events/1136337266949931009?lang=en

That is the journalistic equivalent for an opinion piece suggesting climate change is not real.

Even federal statistics suggest otherwise: https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2019-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2018-dealing-with-unexpected-expenses.htm


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

https://thehub.santanderbank.com/60-americans-arent-prepared-unexpected-expense/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/most-americans-cant-afford-unexpected-expenses

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-surprise-400-expense/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/05/many-lack-a-financial-backstop-amid-pandemic/

https://www.lend360.org/fed-finds-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-400-emergency-expense/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

https://thehub.santanderbank.com/60-americans-arent-prepared-unexpected-expense/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/most-americans-cant-afford-unexpected-expenses

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nearly-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-surprise-400-expense/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/05/many-lack-a-financial-backstop-amid-pandemic/

https://www.lend360.org/fed-finds-40-of-americans-cant-cover-a-400-emergency-expense/

You didn't read the thread did you? It clearly explained why all of those articles are just clickbait. Just because someone wouldn't pay for a $400 expense in cash doesn't mean they can't. The same survey also found 85% of Americans would be able to pay their bills on time even with a $400 emergency expense.

"This one statistic has a small technicality associated with it, therefore the economic struggle it depicts for many Americans doesn't actually exist. Checkmate!"

There is a reason that people aren't paying for these.

Here's a breakdown of what the survey results actually say.
https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0

[SectorZ]

   
• High-speed rail
• Passenger rail in general
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas
• The very existence of the Rust Belt
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility
• Public transit
• Road safety
• Traffic deaths
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past
• Among many, many other things.

The decay is very real. Populations in the Midwest and Rust Belt continue to shrink. West Virginia continues to get poorer. Just because there is growth doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is enjoying that growth. I am experiencing decay itself with the electric grid. I went years without having any major disruptions to my power only to be hit with at least a dozen this year. It doesn't seem like there's very much stopping another 2003-style blackout from happening either.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/11/12/charlotte-sees-dramatic-jump-power-outages/

Citation needed for some of those and the traffic deaths thing is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Pardon not granted. The statement that the US has some of the worst traffic deaths in the developed world is a factual statement, and your statement is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Just like I said earlier in the thread, I suggest that people turn down the aggressive-territorial-animal dial and maybe, I dunno, hold their words before they start to sling shit. Because it could end up getting thrown right back at you.

   
• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?
• Passenger rail in general Does this have to be proven?
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas Does this have to be proven?
• The very existence of the Rust Belt Does this have to be proven?
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility https://i.imgur.com/Oxz6FbZ.png We are now rapidly outpacing Europe by this metric and this figure saw a dramatic spike yet again, surpassing them
• Public transit Does this have to be proven?
• Road safety Traffic deaths are used to measure this
• Traffic deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years https://spanberger.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2953
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/weather/weather-blog/weather-related-outages-increasing/97-cec33823-0d2c-4122-8ef1-d8bb9fe052d2  https://medialibrary.climatecentral.org/resources/power-outages  https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/climate-central.pdf
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past https://www.pnas.org/content/116/43/21450   https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/billion-dollar-natural-disasters-rising-these-states-better-prepare.html  https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/beyond-data/2018s-billion-dollar-disasters-context
• Among many, many other things.

Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

But that's not the same thing as living in poverty.  At least, that's my take on things.  Poverty means you can't afford necessities–not that you don't have enough saved up to cover a hypothetical situation.

In my mind having a safety net is a necessity. If an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars crashes your entire life as you're already hardly making ends meet, you're not in a very good situation.

The link on the power outages speaks nothing of a 10X jump in outages. 67% is not the 900% you cite. The other link that cites the tenfold jump notes improved reporting, and confirms it's likelier that it doubled. 100%.

You seriously think the Rust Belt is due to lack of infrastructure spending? Why? People left the rust belt because it's just not the most pleasant place to live, and when jobs leave, well, so do the people that need them.

Road fatalities are best judged by miles driven, and that wikipedia link has that data for a whopping 22 countries, out of almost 200. We're sandwiched between Belgium and New Zealand on that list. So, yes, you citing that the developed world has some large advantage over us on traffic fatalities is, well, again, bullshit.

[index]

Here's a breakdown of what the survey results actually say.
https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0

And in the end even with these technicalities you get a figure that is still unacceptably high. Raw numbers and data on their own mean nothing. Statistics need context. Just because someone can pay their bills doesn't mean they're not struggling. My own family has been in that situation. I know countless others who have been in that situation. Some number out of that 85% could be around the poverty line, could be overworked, could be in debt, could be on the precipice of eviction, could have had to give some things up in order to pay them, among a number of other things.

   
• High-speed rail
• Passenger rail in general
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas
• The very existence of the Rust Belt
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility
• Public transit
• Road safety
• Traffic deaths
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past
• Among many, many other things.

The decay is very real. Populations in the Midwest and Rust Belt continue to shrink. West Virginia continues to get poorer. Just because there is growth doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is enjoying that growth. I am experiencing decay itself with the electric grid. I went years without having any major disruptions to my power only to be hit with at least a dozen this year. It doesn't seem like there's very much stopping another 2003-style blackout from happening either.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/11/12/charlotte-sees-dramatic-jump-power-outages/

Citation needed for some of those and the traffic deaths thing is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Pardon not granted. The statement that the US has some of the worst traffic deaths in the developed world is a factual statement, and your statement is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Just like I said earlier in the thread, I suggest that people turn down the aggressive-territorial-animal dial and maybe, I dunno, hold their words before they start to sling shit. Because it could end up getting thrown right back at you.

   
• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?
• Passenger rail in general Does this have to be proven?
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas Does this have to be proven?
• The very existence of the Rust Belt Does this have to be proven?
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility https://i.imgur.com/Oxz6FbZ.png We are now rapidly outpacing Europe by this metric and this figure saw a dramatic spike yet again, surpassing them
• Public transit Does this have to be proven?
• Road safety Traffic deaths are used to measure this
• Traffic deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years https://spanberger.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2953
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/weather/weather-blog/weather-related-outages-increasing/97-cec33823-0d2c-4122-8ef1-d8bb9fe052d2  https://medialibrary.climatecentral.org/resources/power-outages  https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/climate-central.pdf
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past https://www.pnas.org/content/116/43/21450   https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/billion-dollar-natural-disasters-rising-these-states-better-prepare.html  https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/beyond-data/2018s-billion-dollar-disasters-context
• Among many, many other things.

Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

But that's not the same thing as living in poverty.  At least, that's my take on things.  Poverty means you can't afford necessities—not that you don't have enough saved up to cover a hypothetical situation.

In my mind having a safety net is a necessity. If an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars crashes your entire life as you're already hardly making ends meet, you're not in a very good situation.

The link on the power outages speaks nothing of a 10X jump in outages. 67% is not the 900% you cite. The other link that cites the tenfold jump notes improved reporting, and confirms it's likelier that it doubled. 100%.

You seriously think the Rust Belt is due to lack of infrastructure spending? Why? People left the rust belt because it's just not the most pleasant place to live, and when jobs leave, well, so do the people that need them.

Road fatalities are best judged by miles driven, and that wikipedia link has that data for a whopping 22 countries, out of almost 200. We're sandwiched between Belgium and New Zealand on that list. So, yes, you citing that the developed world has some large advantage over us on traffic fatalities is, well, again, bullshit.

Lack of infrastructure spending is one of many various factors that can make an area not nice to live and take jobs away from the area. Not a tough conclusion.

Numbers on their own mean nothing. Only one column also has data for 22 countries. The US does worse stacked up against developed nations by every other way you measure it. Driving more is part of the reason. Stopping there and thinking that's all there is to the issue is not a reason. Americans drive more because of our lack of investments in other areas and poor urban planning, necessitating it. If we did not have terrible zoning and massive suburban sprawl coupled with public transit availability that is behind many other countries, we would not have those numbers. People would drive less. Not a tough conclusion. If we had greater availability of these things, and better quality of service, people would use them more, and by extremely large margins too.

In Transdev’s recent “digital travelers” survey, 42% of respondents declared they would use public transit more often with the availability of new services such as WIFI technology, trip planners and mobile ticketing.

https://www.townofchapelhill.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=7678

Interest in Using Public Transit in the Chapel Hill and Carboro is High.  Sixty-nine percent (69%) of the residents surveyed indicated that they would use public transit at least once a week if convenient public transportation were made available near their home.

You would then have less miles traveled. Less driving means lower probability of accidents.

https://assets.climatecentral.org/pdfs/PowerOutages.pdf

Analyzing data from 1984-2012, we found the number of reported weather-related power outages increased dramatically in the 2000s (Figure 2), a conclusion similar to those found in previous studies. There were as many as 10 times more large-scale power outages each year in the 2000s compared to those reported each year in the 1980s and early 1990s.

[kernals12]

Here's a breakdown of what the survey results actually say.
https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0

And in the end even with these technicalities you get a figure that is still unacceptably high. Raw numbers and data on their own mean nothing. Statistics need context. Just because someone can pay their bills doesn't mean they're not struggling. My own family has been in that situation. I know countless others who have been in that situation. Some number out of that 85% could be around the poverty line, could be overworked, could be in debt, could be on the precipice of eviction, could have had to give some things up in order to pay them, among a number of other things.

   
• High-speed rail
• Passenger rail in general
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas
• The very existence of the Rust Belt
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility
• Public transit
• Road safety
• Traffic deaths
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past
• Among many, many other things.

The decay is very real. Populations in the Midwest and Rust Belt continue to shrink. West Virginia continues to get poorer. Just because there is growth doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is enjoying that growth. I am experiencing decay itself with the electric grid. I went years without having any major disruptions to my power only to be hit with at least a dozen this year. It doesn't seem like there's very much stopping another 2003-style blackout from happening either.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/11/12/charlotte-sees-dramatic-jump-power-outages/

Citation needed for some of those and the traffic deaths thing is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Pardon not granted. The statement that the US has some of the worst traffic deaths in the developed world is a factual statement, and your statement is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Just like I said earlier in the thread, I suggest that people turn down the aggressive-territorial-animal dial and maybe, I dunno, hold their words before they start to sling shit. Because it could end up getting thrown right back at you.

   
• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?
• Passenger rail in general Does this have to be proven?
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas Does this have to be proven?
• The very existence of the Rust Belt Does this have to be proven?
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility https://i.imgur.com/Oxz6FbZ.png We are now rapidly outpacing Europe by this metric and this figure saw a dramatic spike yet again, surpassing them
• Public transit Does this have to be proven?
• Road safety Traffic deaths are used to measure this
• Traffic deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years https://spanberger.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2953
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/weather/weather-blog/weather-related-outages-increasing/97-cec33823-0d2c-4122-8ef1-d8bb9fe052d2  https://medialibrary.climatecentral.org/resources/power-outages  https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/climate-central.pdf
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past https://www.pnas.org/content/116/43/21450   https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/billion-dollar-natural-disasters-rising-these-states-better-prepare.html  https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/beyond-data/2018s-billion-dollar-disasters-context
• Among many, many other things.

Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

But that's not the same thing as living in poverty.  At least, that's my take on things.  Poverty means you can't afford necessities–not that you don't have enough saved up to cover a hypothetical situation.

In my mind having a safety net is a necessity. If an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars crashes your entire life as you're already hardly making ends meet, you're not in a very good situation.

The link on the power outages speaks nothing of a 10X jump in outages. 67% is not the 900% you cite. The other link that cites the tenfold jump notes improved reporting, and confirms it's likelier that it doubled. 100%.

You seriously think the Rust Belt is due to lack of infrastructure spending? Why? People left the rust belt because it's just not the most pleasant place to live, and when jobs leave, well, so do the people that need them.

Road fatalities are best judged by miles driven, and that wikipedia link has that data for a whopping 22 countries, out of almost 200. We're sandwiched between Belgium and New Zealand on that list. So, yes, you citing that the developed world has some large advantage over us on traffic fatalities is, well, again, bullshit.

Lack of infrastructure spending is one of many various factors that can make an area not nice to live and take jobs away from the area. Not a tough conclusion.

Numbers on their own mean nothing. Only one column also has data for 22 countries. The US does worse stacked up against developed nations by every other way you measure it. Driving more is part of the reason. Stopping there and thinking that's all there is to the issue is not a reason. Americans drive more because of our lack of investments in other areas, necessitating it. If we did not have terrible zoning and massive suburban sprawl coupled with public transit availability that is behind many other countries, we would not have those numbers. Not a tough conclusion. If we had greater availability of these things, and better quality of service, people would use them more, and by extremely large margins too.

In Transdev's recent "digital travelers"  survey, 42% of respondents declared they would use public transit more often with the availability of new services such as WIFI technology, trip planners and mobile ticketing.

https://www.townofchapelhill.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=7678

Interest in Using Public Transit in the Chapel Hill and Carboro is High.  Sixty-nine percent (69%) of the residents surveyed indicated that they would use public transit at least once a week if convenient public transportation were made available near their home.

You would then have less miles traveled. Less driving means lower probability of accidents.

https://assets.climatecentral.org/pdfs/PowerOutages.pdf

Analyzing data from 1984-2012, we found the number of reported weather-related power outages increased dramatically in the 2000s (Figure 2), a conclusion similar to those found in previous studies. There were as many as 10 times more large-scale power outages each year in the 2000s compared to those reported each year in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Delusional is thinking that people secretly loathe their automobiles and want to ride the bus everywhere.

[kernals12]

Here's a breakdown of what the survey results actually say.
https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0

And in the end even with these technicalities you get a figure that is still unacceptably high. Raw numbers and data on their own mean nothing. Statistics need context. Just because someone can pay their bills doesn't mean they're not struggling. My own family has been in that situation. I know countless others who have been in that situation. Some number out of that 85% could be around the poverty line, could be overworked, could be in debt, could be on the precipice of eviction, could have had to give some things up in order to pay them, among a number of other things.

   
• High-speed rail
• Passenger rail in general
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas
• The very existence of the Rust Belt
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility
• Public transit
• Road safety
• Traffic deaths
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past
• Among many, many other things.

The decay is very real. Populations in the Midwest and Rust Belt continue to shrink. West Virginia continues to get poorer. Just because there is growth doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is enjoying that growth. I am experiencing decay itself with the electric grid. I went years without having any major disruptions to my power only to be hit with at least a dozen this year. It doesn't seem like there's very much stopping another 2003-style blackout from happening either.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/11/12/charlotte-sees-dramatic-jump-power-outages/

Citation needed for some of those and the traffic deaths thing is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Pardon not granted. The statement that the US has some of the worst traffic deaths in the developed world is a factual statement, and your statement is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Just like I said earlier in the thread, I suggest that people turn down the aggressive-territorial-animal dial and maybe, I dunno, hold their words before they start to sling shit. Because it could end up getting thrown right back at you.

   
• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?
• Passenger rail in general Does this have to be proven?
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas Does this have to be proven?
• The very existence of the Rust Belt Does this have to be proven?
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility https://i.imgur.com/Oxz6FbZ.png We are now rapidly outpacing Europe by this metric and this figure saw a dramatic spike yet again, surpassing them
• Public transit Does this have to be proven?
• Road safety Traffic deaths are used to measure this
• Traffic deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years https://spanberger.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2953
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/weather/weather-blog/weather-related-outages-increasing/97-cec33823-0d2c-4122-8ef1-d8bb9fe052d2  https://medialibrary.climatecentral.org/resources/power-outages  https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/climate-central.pdf
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past https://www.pnas.org/content/116/43/21450   https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/billion-dollar-natural-disasters-rising-these-states-better-prepare.html  https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/beyond-data/2018s-billion-dollar-disasters-context
• Among many, many other things.

Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

But that's not the same thing as living in poverty.  At least, that's my take on things.  Poverty means you can't afford necessities–not that you don't have enough saved up to cover a hypothetical situation.

In my mind having a safety net is a necessity. If an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars crashes your entire life as you're already hardly making ends meet, you're not in a very good situation.

The link on the power outages speaks nothing of a 10X jump in outages. 67% is not the 900% you cite. The other link that cites the tenfold jump notes improved reporting, and confirms it's likelier that it doubled. 100%.

You seriously think the Rust Belt is due to lack of infrastructure spending? Why? People left the rust belt because it's just not the most pleasant place to live, and when jobs leave, well, so do the people that need them.

Road fatalities are best judged by miles driven, and that wikipedia link has that data for a whopping 22 countries, out of almost 200. We're sandwiched between Belgium and New Zealand on that list. So, yes, you citing that the developed world has some large advantage over us on traffic fatalities is, well, again, bullshit.

Lack of infrastructure spending is one of many various factors that can make an area not nice to live and take jobs away from the area. Not a tough conclusion.

Numbers on their own mean nothing. Only one column also has data for 22 countries. The US does worse stacked up against developed nations by every other way you measure it. Driving more is part of the reason. Stopping there and thinking that's all there is to the issue is not a reason. Americans drive more because of our lack of investments in other areas and poor urban planning, necessitating it. If we did not have terrible zoning and massive suburban sprawl coupled with public transit availability that is behind many other countries, we would not have those numbers. People would drive less. Not a tough conclusion. If we had greater availability of these things, and better quality of service, people would use them more, and by extremely large margins too.

In Transdev's recent "digital travelers"  survey, 42% of respondents declared they would use public transit more often with the availability of new services such as WIFI technology, trip planners and mobile ticketing.

https://www.townofchapelhill.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=7678

Interest in Using Public Transit in the Chapel Hill and Carboro is High.  Sixty-nine percent (69%) of the residents surveyed indicated that they would use public transit at least once a week if convenient public transportation were made available near their home.

You would then have less miles traveled. Less driving means lower probability of accidents.

https://assets.climatecentral.org/pdfs/PowerOutages.pdf

Analyzing data from 1984-2012, we found the number of reported weather-related power outages increased dramatically in the 2000s (Figure 2), a conclusion similar to those found in previous studies. There were as many as 10 times more large-scale power outages each year in the 2000s compared to those reported each year in the 1980s and early 1990s.

1. It also may just be a sign that they're bad with money.

2. I have convenient public transit near my home. In fact, it's in my driveway. And as the survey predicts, I do use it frequently.

[index]

Here's a breakdown of what the survey results actually say.
https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0

And in the end even with these technicalities you get a figure that is still unacceptably high. Raw numbers and data on their own mean nothing. Statistics need context. Just because someone can pay their bills doesn't mean they're not struggling. My own family has been in that situation. I know countless others who have been in that situation. Some number out of that 85% could be around the poverty line, could be overworked, could be in debt, could be on the precipice of eviction, could have had to give some things up in order to pay them, among a number of other things.

   
• High-speed rail
• Passenger rail in general
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas
• The very existence of the Rust Belt
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility
• Public transit
• Road safety
• Traffic deaths
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past
• Among many, many other things.

The decay is very real. Populations in the Midwest and Rust Belt continue to shrink. West Virginia continues to get poorer. Just because there is growth doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is enjoying that growth. I am experiencing decay itself with the electric grid. I went years without having any major disruptions to my power only to be hit with at least a dozen this year. It doesn't seem like there's very much stopping another 2003-style blackout from happening either.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/11/12/charlotte-sees-dramatic-jump-power-outages/

Citation needed for some of those and the traffic deaths thing is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Pardon not granted. The statement that the US has some of the worst traffic deaths in the developed world is a factual statement, and your statement is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Just like I said earlier in the thread, I suggest that people turn down the aggressive-territorial-animal dial and maybe, I dunno, hold their words before they start to sling shit. Because it could end up getting thrown right back at you.

   
• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?
• Passenger rail in general Does this have to be proven?
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas Does this have to be proven?
• The very existence of the Rust Belt Does this have to be proven?
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility https://i.imgur.com/Oxz6FbZ.png We are now rapidly outpacing Europe by this metric and this figure saw a dramatic spike yet again, surpassing them
• Public transit Does this have to be proven?
• Road safety Traffic deaths are used to measure this
• Traffic deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years https://spanberger.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2953
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/weather/weather-blog/weather-related-outages-increasing/97-cec33823-0d2c-4122-8ef1-d8bb9fe052d2  https://medialibrary.climatecentral.org/resources/power-outages  https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/climate-central.pdf
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past https://www.pnas.org/content/116/43/21450   https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/billion-dollar-natural-disasters-rising-these-states-better-prepare.html  https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/beyond-data/2018s-billion-dollar-disasters-context
• Among many, many other things.

Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

But that's not the same thing as living in poverty.  At least, that's my take on things.  Poverty means you can't afford necessities—not that you don't have enough saved up to cover a hypothetical situation.

In my mind having a safety net is a necessity. If an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars crashes your entire life as you're already hardly making ends meet, you're not in a very good situation.

The link on the power outages speaks nothing of a 10X jump in outages. 67% is not the 900% you cite. The other link that cites the tenfold jump notes improved reporting, and confirms it's likelier that it doubled. 100%.

You seriously think the Rust Belt is due to lack of infrastructure spending? Why? People left the rust belt because it's just not the most pleasant place to live, and when jobs leave, well, so do the people that need them.

Road fatalities are best judged by miles driven, and that wikipedia link has that data for a whopping 22 countries, out of almost 200. We're sandwiched between Belgium and New Zealand on that list. So, yes, you citing that the developed world has some large advantage over us on traffic fatalities is, well, again, bullshit.

Lack of infrastructure spending is one of many various factors that can make an area not nice to live and take jobs away from the area. Not a tough conclusion.

Numbers on their own mean nothing. Only one column also has data for 22 countries. The US does worse stacked up against developed nations by every other way you measure it. Driving more is part of the reason. Stopping there and thinking that's all there is to the issue is not a reason. Americans drive more because of our lack of investments in other areas, necessitating it. If we did not have terrible zoning and massive suburban sprawl coupled with public transit availability that is behind many other countries, we would not have those numbers. Not a tough conclusion. If we had greater availability of these things, and better quality of service, people would use them more, and by extremely large margins too.

In Transdev’s recent “digital travelers” survey, 42% of respondents declared they would use public transit more often with the availability of new services such as WIFI technology, trip planners and mobile ticketing.

https://www.townofchapelhill.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=7678

Interest in Using Public Transit in the Chapel Hill and Carboro is High.  Sixty-nine percent (69%) of the residents surveyed indicated that they would use public transit at least once a week if convenient public transportation were made available near their home.

You would then have less miles traveled. Less driving means lower probability of accidents.

https://assets.climatecentral.org/pdfs/PowerOutages.pdf

Analyzing data from 1984-2012, we found the number of reported weather-related power outages increased dramatically in the 2000s (Figure 2), a conclusion similar to those found in previous studies. There were as many as 10 times more large-scale power outages each year in the 2000s compared to those reported each year in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Delusional is thinking that people secretly loathe their automobiles and want to ride the bus everywhere.

Delusional is thinking that people choose their means of transit based solely on how much they like it with no other factors considered. Almost as if other factors such as cost, ease of use, traffic, among other things, are also at play. You've demonstrated time and time again you literally don't care about factors other than vanity and dick-measuring with other people's lifestyles to determine what you think is best for everyone. Statistics, investigation into those statistics, conclusions based on these things, all be damned. I don't like it so I don't want it and other people shouldn't want it either! My way is the only way to do things!

[kernals12]

Here's a breakdown of what the survey results actually say.
https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0

And in the end even with these technicalities you get a figure that is still unacceptably high. Raw numbers and data on their own mean nothing. Statistics need context. Just because someone can pay their bills doesn't mean they're not struggling. My own family has been in that situation. I know countless others who have been in that situation. Some number out of that 85% could be around the poverty line, could be overworked, could be in debt, could be on the precipice of eviction, could have had to give some things up in order to pay them, among a number of other things.

   
• High-speed rail
• Passenger rail in general
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas
• The very existence of the Rust Belt
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility
• Public transit
• Road safety
• Traffic deaths
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past
• Among many, many other things.

The decay is very real. Populations in the Midwest and Rust Belt continue to shrink. West Virginia continues to get poorer. Just because there is growth doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is enjoying that growth. I am experiencing decay itself with the electric grid. I went years without having any major disruptions to my power only to be hit with at least a dozen this year. It doesn't seem like there's very much stopping another 2003-style blackout from happening either.

https://www.wbtv.com/2020/11/12/charlotte-sees-dramatic-jump-power-outages/

Citation needed for some of those and the traffic deaths thing is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Pardon not granted. The statement that the US has some of the worst traffic deaths in the developed world is a factual statement, and your statement is, pardon my English, complete bullshit.

Just like I said earlier in the thread, I suggest that people turn down the aggressive-territorial-animal dial and maybe, I dunno, hold their words before they start to sling shit. Because it could end up getting thrown right back at you.

   
• High-speed rail Does this have to be proven?
• Passenger rail in general Does this have to be proven?
• Freeways that still tear through urban areas Does this have to be proven?
• The very existence of the Rust Belt Does this have to be proven?
• Pedestrian and cyclist accessibility https://i.imgur.com/Oxz6FbZ.png We are now rapidly outpacing Europe by this metric and this figure saw a dramatic spike yet again, surpassing them
• Public transit Does this have to be proven?
• Road safety Traffic deaths are used to measure this
• Traffic deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
• 70% of our dams will be over 50 years old in five years https://spanberger.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=2953
• Weather-related power outages are 10 times more frequent than in the 1980s https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/weather/weather-blog/weather-related-outages-increasing/97-cec33823-0d2c-4122-8ef1-d8bb9fe052d2  https://medialibrary.climatecentral.org/resources/power-outages  https://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/climate-central.pdf
• Increasing damage from natural disasters, even when adjusted for inflation comparing to ones of the past https://www.pnas.org/content/116/43/21450   https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/billion-dollar-natural-disasters-rising-these-states-better-prepare.html  https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/beyond-data/2018s-billion-dollar-disasters-context
• Among many, many other things.

Most Americans, more than the poverty line might suggest, can't afford an unexpected expense worth a few hundred bucks without throwing their financial situation into chaos.

But that's not the same thing as living in poverty.  At least, that's my take on things.  Poverty means you can't afford necessities–not that you don't have enough saved up to cover a hypothetical situation.

In my mind having a safety net is a necessity. If an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars crashes your entire life as you're already hardly making ends meet, you're not in a very good situation.

The link on the power outages speaks nothing of a 10X jump in outages. 67% is not the 900% you cite. The other link that cites the tenfold jump notes improved reporting, and confirms it's likelier that it doubled. 100%.

You seriously think the Rust Belt is due to lack of infrastructure spending? Why? People left the rust belt because it's just not the most pleasant place to live, and when jobs leave, well, so do the people that need them.

Road fatalities are best judged by miles driven, and that wikipedia link has that data for a whopping 22 countries, out of almost 200. We're sandwiched between Belgium and New Zealand on that list. So, yes, you citing that the developed world has some large advantage over us on traffic fatalities is, well, again, bullshit.

Lack of infrastructure spending is one of many various factors that can make an area not nice to live and take jobs away from the area. Not a tough conclusion.

Numbers on their own mean nothing. Only one column also has data for 22 countries. The US does worse stacked up against developed nations by every other way you measure it. Driving more is part of the reason. Stopping there and thinking that's all there is to the issue is not a reason. Americans drive more because of our lack of investments in other areas, necessitating it. If we did not have terrible zoning and massive suburban sprawl coupled with public transit availability that is behind many other countries, we would not have those numbers. Not a tough conclusion. If we had greater availability of these things, and better quality of service, people would use them more, and by extremely large margins too.

In Transdev's recent "digital travelers"  survey, 42% of respondents declared they would use public transit more often with the availability of new services such as WIFI technology, trip planners and mobile ticketing.

https://www.townofchapelhill.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=7678

Interest in Using Public Transit in the Chapel Hill and Carboro is High.  Sixty-nine percent (69%) of the residents surveyed indicated that they would use public transit at least once a week if convenient public transportation were made available near their home.

You would then have less miles traveled. Less driving means lower probability of accidents.

https://assets.climatecentral.org/pdfs/PowerOutages.pdf

Analyzing data from 1984-2012, we found the number of reported weather-related power outages increased dramatically in the 2000s (Figure 2), a conclusion similar to those found in previous studies. There were as many as 10 times more large-scale power outages each year in the 2000s compared to those reported each year in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Delusional is thinking that people secretly loathe their automobiles and want to ride the bus everywhere.

Delusional is thinking that people choose their means of transit based solely on how much they like it with no other factors considered. Almost as if other factors such as cost, ease of use, traffic, among other things, are also at play. You've demonstrated time and time again you literally don't care about factors other than vanity and dick-measuring with other people's lifestyles to determine what you think is best for everyone. Statistics, investigation into those statistics, conclusions based on these things, all be damned. I don't like it so I don't want it and other people shouldn't want it either! My way is the only way to do things!

Here are some statistics for you to investigate:
https://www.statista.com/chart/14773/can-i-afford-that/

[hotdogPi]

Here are some statistics for you to investigate:
https://www.statista.com/chart/14773/can-i-afford-that/

Those are average values, not values for people living in poverty.

[kernals12]

Also, that 13% poverty measure doesn't count food stamps, medicaid, employer provided health insurance, or the EITC or the CTC. If you count all of that, the poverty rate is actually 2%.

[1995hoo]

I like to drive. My wife and I have no kids, yet we have four cars, three of them manual shift. Yet there are also times when I prefer not to drive for various reasons, and I certainly recognize the value of public transportation in a large metropolitan area like DC or New York. One of the two subway stations closest to my house has a parking garage with around 5100 spaces, most of which are filled every day in normal times. If you took all the subway stops with filled-up parking garages here in the DC area and added all of those cars to the roads into the District, traffic would be substantially worse than it is, especially coming from Virginia (this due the natural chokepoints that come from everyone having to funnel down to the bridges across the Potomac).

In other words, as I said before, anyone (not just kernals12) who thinks that one mode of transportation is the panacea and the only one we need is simply delusional.

But, of course, he'll come back with a one-sentence non sequitur.

[kernals12]

I like to drive. My wife and I have no kids, yet we have four cars, three of them manual shift. Yet there are also times when I prefer not to drive for various reasons, and I certainly recognize the value of public transportation in a large metropolitan area like DC or New York. One of the two subway stations closest to my house has a parking garage with around 5100 spaces, most of which are filled every day in normal times. If you took all the subway stops with filled-up parking garages here in the DC area and added all of those cars to the roads into the District, traffic would be substantially worse than it is, especially coming from Virginia (this due the natural chokepoints that come from everyone having to funnel down to the bridges across the Potomac).

In other words, as I said before, anyone (not just kernals12) who thinks that one mode of transportation is the panacea and the only one we need is simply delusional.

But, of course, he'll come back with a one-sentence non sequitur.

I have yet to see any sound arguments for why we need rail based transportation except in a few high density cities. For every other place, buses will do just fine for the small number of people who don't drive.

[jeffandnicole]

With 91% of Americans owning a car, we don't lack that.

91% of Americans don't own a car.  91% of American *households* own a car. 

...Less people on the road, less miles driven, and an incentive to save money by not driving, generally equals safer roads by virtue of there being less cars and people driving only out of absolute necessity. Not to mention the whole host of other benefits from new urbanism/mixed use.

Well, that actually hasn't proven to be true, and we only have to look at the first 6 months of this year.  While the link below isn't my favorite due to the source, it apparently is factual.  Fewer people on the roads equaled more accidents and deaths when Covid-19 forced many to stay at home.

https://www.nsc.org/in-the-newsroom/nsc-estimates-us-saw-a-20-jump-in-motor-vehicle-death-rates-in-first-six-months-of-2020-despite-quarantines

...I have to walk an hour just to get out of residential zoning here and to any point of interest at all, that just can't be called pedestrian accessibility, and the same situation goes for a lot of the country too.

I take issue with this because either you or the people you live with (friends/parents/whomever) made a very specific choice to live there, knowing full well that businesses were not in that area and may not be in that area in the future.  However, that does not make pedestrian accessibility an issue in this country.  Everyone has a choice where they want to live.  Some areas may not meet their needs in safety, affordability, etc, but that's a choice you have to weigh when looking for a home. In fact, maybe for some people, being away from businesses was the appeal of the area.  Maybe, even, you're complaining to us because you couldn't win your argument with the people you live with who wanted to move where you moved to. 

The good news...guess what - you're 18!  You can make that decision on your own to move out now!

Also, your one-off examples are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.  Yes, it's stupid whenever a sidewalk isn't 'wheelchair width'.  I cringe when I see a utility pole or traffic light post stuck in the middle of a sidewalk.  But citing 1 area in an entire city shouldn't be used as an example of the city as a whole.  Same thing with this person you know that had a bicycle accident. It's very unfortunate, but again, not something that's exclusive to the US.

[oscar]

^ Same here, with two cars for one person (for now, until my elderly Prius bites the dust). But a decent transit system (both bus and rail) is a useful backstop, for when I have a car in the shop, or when I can't drive for medical reasons (such as after one of my several eye surgeries).

Then there are the people who just hate to drive. My county encourages their "car-free diets". So do I, more room for me on the road.

[hbelkins]

So yeah, the great American infrastructure crisis does not exist. It's perpetuated by construction companies looking for projects and the media's need for bad news.

Ignoring most of the rest of this thread and the comments made therein, he speaks a couple of truths here.

There are advocates for a gasoline tax increase in Kentucky. Their ranks don't come from average motorists, most of whom are happy that gas prices are as low as they are and would actually like to see them go down, not go up. Here, around 17 percent of the cost of a gallon of gas goes for taxes. (I believe the current figure is something like 34.8 cents per gallon, and gas is running slightly above $2 a gallon in most places in this area).

The main cheerleaders for gas tax increases are ... you guessed it ... highway contractors. Having seen the way they operate, they as a group are an industry with whom I'm increasingly disgusted. They act as if we work for them and our primary purpose is to give them business, instead of them working for us and providing services. They don't follow guidelines for public notice of traffic disruptions or changes, even if such policies are written into contracts. Even transportation agencies seem to practice the notion that they're in charge, not us. And as governments have farmed even more business out to them over the years (strip patching, guardrail repair, striping, sometimes sign installation), they hold even more power. It's why I'm very much an advocate for reining them in, lowering construction estimates and rejecting more bids that come in over estimate. Federal prevailing wage laws (Davis-Bacon Act) further complicate this when projects are federally funded.

Chambers of commerce also get behind pushes to increase gas tax in the holy name of "infrastructure." I guess they don't realize that if people are paying more out of their pocket in taxes, they'll have less money available to buy the goods and services their member businesses offer.

As for the media -- yes, they're always looking for shock value in a story. I remember several years ago when a bridge collapsed in one of the west coast states. It was a truss bridge on I-5, I believe. It wasn't that long after the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota. We got all sort of press calls about that from reporters wondering if we had any bridges in danger of falling in. Once word got out that the collapse was caused by an oversized load hitting a truss beam, those calls ceased. The alarm factor of a "crumbling infrastructure" story got destroyed.

Amtrak

I've ridden Amtrak once, as a bit of a novelty. My brother wanted to do a cross-country trip. We boarded the Cardinal in Cincinnati, rode to Chicago, and switched to the California Zephyr for trip west. He paid for the trip, and they were offering a sale on their prices, but it was still outrageously expensive. It was a good thing meals were included, because the menu prices in the dining car were astronomical. Even the snack prices in the cafe car were extremely high. $2.25 for a can of pop. The schedule wasn't convenient, as we had to board in Cincy at 2:30 a.m. And we were 13 hours late arriving in California.

My brother rode the Cardinal to DC a few times for work, as opposed to flying or driving, but he rode in the coach car, not the sleeper.

I can't imagine depending on Amtrak for a regular commute along the eastern seaboard, the way Joe Biden did traveling between Wilmington and DC on a regular basis.

[kernals12]

With 91% of Americans owning a car, we don't lack that.

91% of Americans don't own a car.  91% of American *households* own a car. 

...Less people on the road, less miles driven, and an incentive to save money by not driving, generally equals safer roads by virtue of there being less cars and people driving only out of absolute necessity. Not to mention the whole host of other benefits from new urbanism/mixed use.

Well, that actually hasn't proven to be true, and we only have to look at the first 6 months of this year.  While the link below isn't my favorite due to the source, it apparently is factual.  Fewer people on the roads equaled more accidents and deaths when Covid-19 forced many to stay at home.

https://www.nsc.org/in-the-newsroom/nsc-estimates-us-saw-a-20-jump-in-motor-vehicle-death-rates-in-first-six-months-of-2020-despite-quarantines

...I have to walk an hour just to get out of residential zoning here and to any point of interest at all, that just can't be called pedestrian accessibility, and the same situation goes for a lot of the country too.

I take issue with this because either you or the people you live with (friends/parents/whomever) made a very specific choice to live there, knowing full well that businesses were not in that area and may not be in that area in the future.  However, that does not make pedestrian accessibility an issue in this country.  Everyone has a choice where they want to live.  Some areas may not meet their needs in safety, affordability, etc, but that's a choice you have to weigh when looking for a home. In fact, maybe for some people, being away from businesses was the appeal of the area.  Maybe, even, you're complaining to us because you couldn't win your argument with the people you live with who wanted to move where you moved to. 

The good news...guess what - you're 18!  You can make that decision on your own to move out now!

Also, your one-off examples are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.  Yes, it's stupid whenever a sidewalk isn't 'wheelchair width'.  I cringe when I see a utility pole or traffic light post stuck in the middle of a sidewalk.  But citing 1 area in an entire city shouldn't be used as an example of the city as a whole.  Same thing with this person you know that had a bicycle accident. It's very unfortunate, but again, not something that's exclusive to the US.

My town has sidewalks on pretty much all streets and it has an extensive network of footpaths. One annoyance is they give pedestrians a separate cycle to cross rather than having them cross when traffic in a parallel direction goes. That means less time for everyone to move.

[hotdogPi]

I can't imagine depending on Amtrak for a regular commute along the eastern seaboard, the way Joe Biden did traveling between Wilmington and DC on a regular basis.

Wilmington is almost within commuter rail range of DC (the commuter rail line ends at the east side of the Susquehanna River in Maryland). It's not a long trip.

[webny99]

As for the media -- yes, they're always looking for shock value in a story. I remember several years ago when a bridge collapsed in one of the west coast states. It was a truss bridge on I-5, I believe. It wasn't that long after the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota. We got all sort of press calls about that from reporters wondering if we had any bridges in danger of falling in. Once word got out that the collapse was caused by an oversized load hitting a truss beam, those calls ceased. The alarm factor of a "crumbling infrastructure" story got destroyed.

I'm not sure what role, if any, the media played in this, but our Bay Bridge was built in the same year as the I-35W one that collapsed, and I once had a co-worker who literally carried a life vest every time she crossed it because she was so scared the same thing would happen while she was on it!

[1995hoo]

I like to drive. My wife and I have no kids, yet we have four cars, three of them manual shift. Yet there are also times when I prefer not to drive for various reasons, and I certainly recognize the value of public transportation in a large metropolitan area like DC or New York. One of the two subway stations closest to my house has a parking garage with around 5100 spaces, most of which are filled every day in normal times. If you took all the subway stops with filled-up parking garages here in the DC area and added all of those cars to the roads into the District, traffic would be substantially worse than it is, especially coming from Virginia (this due the natural chokepoints that come from everyone having to funnel down to the bridges across the Potomac).

In other words, as I said before, anyone (not just kernals12) who thinks that one mode of transportation is the panacea and the only one we need is simply delusional.

But, of course, he'll come back with a one-sentence non sequitur.

I have yet to see any sound arguments for why we need rail based transportation except in a few high density cities. For every other place, buses will do just fine for the small number of people who don't drive.

I didn't say we do need it everywhere, did I? Don't put words in other people's mouths (or keyboards, as the case may be).

Like Oscar says in reply #93, I very much like having the alternate transportation available for times when I have to leave the car at the mechanic overnight, or when something is going on that makes driving impractical. A good DC-area example of the latter is in December when the President lights the National Christmas Tree and there are a bunch of street closures throughout rush hour. It causes massive traffic jams. The subway is essential on that day, even back when I normally drove downtown to work.

My problem with the bus service here is that it's not frequent enough to be a viable option. There's a stop half a mile from home, but the bus only comes once an hour for most of the day. So for the commute home, if there's any delay on the train, you miss the bus, which for me would mean either pay for a cab or walk two miles up a steep hill.

[kernals12]

So yeah, the great American infrastructure crisis does not exist. It's perpetuated by construction companies looking for projects and the media's need for bad news.

Ignoring most of the rest of this thread and the comments made therein, he speaks a couple of truths here.

There are advocates for a gasoline tax increase in Kentucky. Their ranks don't come from average motorists, most of whom are happy that gas prices are as low as they are and would actually like to see them go down, not go up. Here, around 17 percent of the cost of a gallon of gas goes for taxes. (I believe the current figure is something like 34.8 cents per gallon, and gas is running slightly above $2 a gallon in most places in this area).

The main cheerleaders for gas tax increases are ... you guessed it ... highway contractors. Having seen the way they operate, they as a group are an industry with whom I'm increasingly disgusted. They act as if we work for them and our primary purpose is to give them business, instead of them working for us and providing services. They don't follow guidelines for public notice of traffic disruptions or changes, even if such policies are written into contracts. Even transportation agencies seem to practice the notion that they're in charge, not us. And as governments have farmed even more business out to them over the years (strip patching, guardrail repair, striping, sometimes sign installation), they hold even more power. It's why I'm very much an advocate for reining them in, lowering construction estimates and rejecting more bids that come in over estimate. Federal prevailing wage laws (Davis-Bacon Act) further complicate this when projects are federally funded.

Chambers of commerce also get behind pushes to increase gas tax in the holy name of "infrastructure." I guess they don't realize that if people are paying more out of their pocket in taxes, they'll have less money available to buy the goods and services their member businesses offer.

As for the media -- yes, they're always looking for shock value in a story. I remember several years ago when a bridge collapsed in one of the west coast states. It was a truss bridge on I-5, I believe. It wasn't that long after the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota. We got all sort of press calls about that from reporters wondering if we had any bridges in danger of falling in. Once word got out that the collapse was caused by an oversized load hitting a truss beam, those calls ceased. The alarm factor of a "crumbling infrastructure" story got destroyed.

Amtrak

I've ridden Amtrak once, as a bit of a novelty. My brother wanted to do a cross-country trip. We boarded the Cardinal in Cincinnati, rode to Chicago, and switched to the California Zephyr for trip west. He paid for the trip, and they were offering a sale on their prices, but it was still outrageously expensive. It was a good thing meals were included, because the menu prices in the dining car were astronomical. Even the snack prices in the cafe car were extremely high. $2.25 for a can of pop. The schedule wasn't convenient, as we had to board in Cincy at 2:30 a.m. And we were 13 hours late arriving in California.

My brother rode the Cardinal to DC a few times for work, as opposed to flying or driving, but he rode in the coach car, not the sleeper.

I can't imagine depending on Amtrak for a regular commute along the eastern seaboard, the way Joe Biden did traveling between Wilmington and DC on a regular basis.

Thank you.