Unpopular Route Opinions

[SEWIGuy]

Basically Fritz hates fun roads because he thinks they are unsafe and wants to turn them into boring Interstates.  Where it gets weird is when you realize that Fritz doesn't understand what money is and that he is likely is operating on a different plain of reality than most of us. 

So basically whenever someone purposes an outlandish Interstate concept it generally will be categorized as "FritzOwling."

Where it gets insanely bad is that Fritz is dead serious about all of this. That's why I attack his stupid plans as much as I do.

He is the only person that takes it seriously.  Attacking them doesn't change his mind.  I have no idea why you bother.

Why I bother? Probably because this is a forum and people comment on forums.

I was specifically talking about why you "attack"  his plans. (Your words.)  Of course people comment on them. But you seem to think his plans need to ridiculed every time he posts. They don't.

[Flint1979]

He didn't bite on the Space Elevator and folding Space Time concepts I was hinting at previously. I don't think he's thought of a reliable source for wide distribution of Spice Melange.   

Hot tip: Try posting proposals to demolish a freeway or decommission an Interstate in his thread. I did that once and got a reply chock-full of typos, as if the thought of removing an interstate made him so overcome with emotion he couldn't operate the keyboard properly.

Done it. I'll mention removing I-375 in Michigan. I'm going to do it right now to see if I get a reply from him.

[US 89]

In light of recent AASHTO numbering decisions designating certain corridors with numbers in the 400s range, I propose renumbering US 49 to US 437.

In fact, better yet, it should be downgraded to MS/AR 437.

[Alps]

I literally can't sleep at night knowing US 206 is 0.8 miles away from connecting with its parent route.

Literally? 

[kenarmy]

In light of recent AASHTO numbering decisions designating certain corridors with numbers in the 400s range, I propose renumbering US 49 to US 437.

In fact, better yet, it should be downgraded to MS/AR 437.

49 is the most important of the 40's! 40 and 41 are irrelevant to their interstates. 42 who? No one is using 43 honestly. 44 and 46 are branches of 6. 45 is a wanna-be 51. 48 is a wanna-be important corridor. US 49 has never been truncated, US 89 can only wish  But maybe I should respond in a different way before yall think im crazy..

[Avalanchez71]

US 43 is an important regional corridor in Middle Tennessee.  It is four landed through the majority of the state.  It links the Nashville, TN to Florence, AL corridor.

[SkyPesos]

In light of recent AASHTO numbering decisions designating certain corridors with numbers in the 400s range, I propose renumbering US 49 to US 437.

In fact, better yet, it should be downgraded to MS/AR 437.

49 is the most important of the 40's! 40 and 41 are irrelevant to their interstates. 42 who? No one is using 43 honestly. 44 and 46 are branches of 6. 45 is a wanna-be 51. 48 is a wanna-be important corridor. US 49 has never been truncated, US 89 can only wish  But maybe I should respond in a different way before yall think im crazy..

49 seems like a out of the way backroad for I-55 north of Jackson to me. From Jackson to Gulfport, yes it is an important corridor that I think the state wanted to upgrade into I-61 or I-63 a while ago. US 49 could be worth truncation imo if the state decides to slap some interstate shields onto the Jackson-Gulfport section.

45 is mostly expressway in MS and TN. Also try saying US 41 is irrelevant to everyone living in western Indiana and the Chicago metro area.

[kenarmy]

In light of recent AASHTO numbering decisions designating certain corridors with numbers in the 400s range, I propose renumbering US 49 to US 437.

In fact, better yet, it should be downgraded to MS/AR 437.

49 is the most important of the 40's! 40 and 41 are irrelevant to their interstates. 42 who? No one is using 43 honestly. 44 and 46 are branches of 6. 45 is a wanna-be 51. 48 is a wanna-be important corridor. US 49 has never been truncated, US 89 can only wish  But maybe I should respond in a different way before yall think im crazy..

49 seems like a out of the way backroad for I-55 north of Jackson to me. From Jackson to Gulfport, yes it is an important corridor that I think the state wanted to upgrade into I-61 or I-63 a while ago. US 49 could be worth truncation imo if the state decides to slap some interstate shields onto the Jackson-Gulfport section.

45 is mostly expressway in MS and TN. Also try saying US 41 is irrelevant to everyone living in western Indiana and the Chicago metro area.

Knowing MS, this probably will never happen. I think of US 45 as a I-59 and 49 as an I-55. I mean, one is kinda important but the other one is more important. I also love driving on 98, it's an excellent route for traffic going to Mobile or else where into Florida. That is until, you reach Alabama when the road becomes more narrow and when 10 becomes the desired route. I'd say 43 is more important than 45 from its terimuses.

[SkyPesos]

In light of recent AASHTO numbering decisions designating certain corridors with numbers in the 400s range, I propose renumbering US 49 to US 437.

In fact, better yet, it should be downgraded to MS/AR 437.

49 is the most important of the 40's! 40 and 41 are irrelevant to their interstates. 42 who? No one is using 43 honestly. 44 and 46 are branches of 6. 45 is a wanna-be 51. 48 is a wanna-be important corridor. US 49 has never been truncated, US 89 can only wish  But maybe I should respond in a different way before yall think im crazy..

49 seems like a out of the way backroad for I-55 north of Jackson to me. From Jackson to Gulfport, yes it is an important corridor that I think the state wanted to upgrade into I-61 or I-63 a while ago. US 49 could be worth truncation imo if the state decides to slap some interstate shields onto the Jackson-Gulfport section.

45 is mostly expressway in MS and TN. Also try saying US 41 is irrelevant to everyone living in western Indiana and the Chicago metro area.

Knowing MS, this probably will never happen. I think of US 45 as a I-59 and 49 as an I-55. I mean, one is kinda important but the other one is more important. I also love driving on 98, it's an excellent route for traffic going to Mobile or else where into Florida. That is until, you reach Alabama when the road becomes more narrow and when 10 becomes the desired route. I'd say 43 is more important than 45 from its terimuses.

I think of US 11 as I-59, not US 45. I-59 goes NE past Meridian along with US 11, while US 45 goes straight north. One route heads towards Chicago, other route heads towards NYC.

[kenarmy]

In light of recent AASHTO numbering decisions designating certain corridors with numbers in the 400s range, I propose renumbering US 49 to US 437.

In fact, better yet, it should be downgraded to MS/AR 437.

49 is the most important of the 40's! 40 and 41 are irrelevant to their interstates. 42 who? No one is using 43 honestly. 44 and 46 are branches of 6. 45 is a wanna-be 51. 48 is a wanna-be important corridor. US 49 has never been truncated, US 89 can only wish  But maybe I should respond in a different way before yall think im crazy..

49 seems like a out of the way backroad for I-55 north of Jackson to me. From Jackson to Gulfport, yes it is an important corridor that I think the state wanted to upgrade into I-61 or I-63 a while ago. US 49 could be worth truncation imo if the state decides to slap some interstate shields onto the Jackson-Gulfport section.

45 is mostly expressway in MS and TN. Also try saying US 41 is irrelevant to everyone living in western Indiana and the Chicago metro area.

Knowing MS, this probably will never happen. I think of US 45 as a I-59 and 49 as an I-55. I mean, one is kinda important but the other one is more important. I also love driving on 98, it's an excellent route for traffic going to Mobile or else where into Florida. That is until, you reach Alabama when the road becomes more narrow and when 10 becomes the desired route. I'd say 43 is more important than 45 from its terimuses.

I think of US 11 as I-59, not US 45. I-59 goes NE past Meridian along with US 11, while US 45 goes straight north. One route heads towards Chicago, other route heads towards NYC.

no no no I meant in terms of importance. 11 is now below 45 and probably even 278 now.

[Roadgeekteen]

In light of recent AASHTO numbering decisions designating certain corridors with numbers in the 400s range, I propose renumbering US 49 to US 437.

In fact, better yet, it should be downgraded to MS/AR 437.

49 is the most important of the 40's! 40 and 41 are irrelevant to their interstates. 42 who? No one is using 43 honestly. 44 and 46 are branches of 6. 45 is a wanna-be 51. 48 is a wanna-be important corridor. US 49 has never been truncated, US 89 can only wish  But maybe I should respond in a different way before yall think im crazy..

49 seems like a out of the way backroad for I-55 north of Jackson to me. From Jackson to Gulfport, yes it is an important corridor that I think the state wanted to upgrade into I-61 or I-63 a while ago. US 49 could be worth truncation imo if the state decides to slap some interstate shields onto the Jackson-Gulfport section.

45 is mostly expressway in MS and TN. Also try saying US 41 is irrelevant to everyone living in western Indiana and the Chicago metro area.

Knowing MS, this probably will never happen. I think of US 45 as a I-59 and 49 as an I-55. I mean, one is kinda important but the other one is more important. I also love driving on 98, it's an excellent route for traffic going to Mobile or else where into Florida. That is until, you reach Alabama when the road becomes more narrow and when 10 becomes the desired route. I'd say 43 is more important than 45 from its terimuses.

I think of US 11 as I-59, not US 45. I-59 goes NE past Meridian along with US 11, while US 45 goes straight north. One route heads towards Chicago, other route heads towards NYC.

no no no I meant in terms of importance. 11 is now below 45 and probably even 278 now.

At this point US 191 is more important than US 11, and 191 ain't all that important.

[froggie]

No one is using 43 honestly.

I know a number of folks in western Alabama who would disagree with this.

45 is a wanna-be 51.

45 has more independent utility than 51, since much of 51 (including everything south of Memphis) has been overshadowed by Interstates.

US 49 has never been truncated

True, but 49 is only really important on a regional/national sense south of Jackson.  It's as much of a "wanna-be" corridor north of Jackson as what you claim 45 to be.

[kenarmy]

Ok well, US 98 is the important route in the 90's!
90- overshadowed by 10, only independent in that parts where it goes through nowhere in La and Tx
91- LOL
92- *yawn* I-4 ended this
93- the only really important part of the route is getting replaced by 11, ends in a nowhere and is way more indirect of 95
95- its long branch route overshadows it. I guess its somewhat important the further south you go but whatever
96- what a joke
97- irrelevant, 99 and 101 are more remembered
99- i hated to see it go.
98 serves Hattiesburg, Memphis and Jackson traffic going to Florida (via 49), Mobile, Pensacola, the EMERALD COAST, Destin, Panama city, Lakeland, Palm beach, and the largest freshwater lake in the state.. WITHOUT A PARALLELING INTERSTATE for the most part..  do i need to continue?

[Flint1979]

US-90 needs to be replaced by an Interstate between Van Horn and San Antonio. It's needed because Fritzowl said so.

[kphoger]

Except with the US Route system, many roads are, for the most part, only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative.

what

You honestly think that most people on a highway are doing so specifically to avoid a better route?

[jmacswimmer]

US-90 needs to be replaced by an Interstate between Van Horn and San Antonio. It's needed because Fritzowl said so.

Just imagine if Fritzowl was the USDOT secretary...

[US 89]

Ok well, US 98 is the important route in the 90's!
95- its long branch route overshadows it. I guess its somewhat important the further south you go but whatever
98 serves Hattiesburg, Memphis and Jackson traffic going to Florida (via 49), Mobile, Pensacola, the EMERALD COAST, Destin, Panama city, Lakeland, Palm beach, and the largest freshwater lake in the state.. WITHOUT A PARALLELING INTERSTATE for the most part..  do i need to continue?

US 95 is a border-to-border route that provides the only connection between Nevada's only two metropolitan areas...and is now federally designated as the I-11 corridor. It is also undeniably Idaho's most important north-south highway as it is the only road connecting northern Idaho to the rest of the state. I should also note that except for what's supposed to become I-11, none of it parallels an interstate.

Not sure how that beats 98, which is largely an alternative route to I-10 that goes along the coast instead of inland. Even the part across the Florida panhandle is more or less a free alternate to Florida's Turnpike ... and even then, there are other free cross-panhandle roads like US 192 and US 441. There's no real alternate to a lot of 95.

[kenarmy]

Ok well, US 98 is the important route in the 90's!
95- its long branch route overshadows it. I guess its somewhat important the further south you go but whatever
98 serves Hattiesburg, Memphis and Jackson traffic going to Florida (via 49), Mobile, Pensacola, the EMERALD COAST, Destin, Panama city, Lakeland, Palm beach, and the largest freshwater lake in the state.. WITHOUT A PARALLELING INTERSTATE for the most part..  do i need to continue?

US 95 is a border-to-border route that provides the only connection between Nevada's only two metropolitan areas...and is now federally designated as the I-11 corridor. It is also undeniably Idaho's most important north-south highway as it is the only road connecting northern Idaho to the rest of the state. I should also note that except for what's supposed to become I-11, none of it parallels an interstate.

Not sure how that beats 98, which is largely an alternative route to I-10 that goes along the coast instead of inland. Even the part across the Florida panhandle is more or less a free alternate to Florida's Turnpike ... and even then, there are other free cross-panhandle roads like US 192 and US 441. There's no real alternate to a lot of 95.

Exactly 11 will be slowly replacing its function.. 98 is irreplaceable. 10 is the alternate for 98, there a ton of tourist attractions along 98's coastal route and its important for an evacuation route. clearly a very great drive. Isn't 95 supposed to be very dangerous and boring?

[interstatefan990]

Except with the US Route system, many roads are, for the most part, only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative.

what

You honestly think that most people on a highway are doing so specifically to avoid a better route?

This is about rural, desolate US Routes.  I'm pretty sure more people that travel on those roads are out-of-state tourists/roadgeeks than those who aren't. Unless you live in a ghost town in the rural west, are you honestly telling me you'd drive on a US route instead of a nearby interstate because it would be the best way to get to your destination?

[SEWIGuy]

Except with the US Route system, many roads are, for the most part, only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative.

what

You honestly think that most people on a highway are doing so specifically to avoid a better route?

This is about rural, desolate US Routes.  I'm pretty sure more people that travel on those roads are out-of-state tourists/roadgeeks than those who aren't. Unless you live in a ghost town in the rural west, are you honestly telling me you'd drive on a US route instead of a nearby interstate because it would be the best way to get to your destination?

How nearby is the interstate in this hypothetical? 

[kphoger]

Except with the US Route system, many roads are, for the most part, only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative.

what

You honestly think that most people on a highway are doing so specifically to avoid a better route?

This is about rural, desolate US Routes.  I'm pretty sure more people that travel on those roads are out-of-state tourists/roadgeeks than those who aren't. Unless you live in a ghost town in the rural west, are you honestly telling me you'd drive on a US route instead of a nearby interstate because it would be the best way to get to your destination?

So, what specific rural desolate US Routes are you talking about, where tourists outnumber local drivers? and that have nearby parallel Interstates?

As an example...  Granted, my usual delivery route in the area didn't extend that far north, so my experience on the highway is somewhat limited, but I can't recall ever having seen a single out-of-state license plate on US-40 immediately west of Effingham, IL (the only stretch I used multiple times for work).  Plenty of local traffic, though, plus truckers.

I have serious doubts that US-30 in west-central Nebraska is clogged with tourists and roadgeeks.  Take the stretch between Kearney and Lexington, for example:  are you telling me that half of the 2751 vehicles during an average day along that stretch are tourists actively choosing to avoid I-80?  More than 1300 people a day who just can't get enough Nebraska cornfields?  Give me a break.

[interstatefan990]

Except with the US Route system, many roads are, for the most part, only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative.

what

You honestly think that most people on a highway are doing so specifically to avoid a better route?

This is about rural, desolate US Routes.  I'm pretty sure more people that travel on those roads are out-of-state tourists/roadgeeks than those who aren't. Unless you live in a ghost town in the rural west, are you honestly telling me you'd drive on a US route instead of a nearby interstate because it would be the best way to get to your destination?

So, what specific rural desolate US Routes are you talking about, where tourists outnumber local drivers? and that have nearby parallel Interstates?

As an example...  Granted, my usual delivery route in the area didn't extend that far north, so my experience on the highway is somewhat limited, but I can't recall ever having seen a single out-of-state license plate on US-40 immediately west of Effingham, IL (the only stretch I used multiple times for work).  Plenty of local traffic, though, plus truckers.

I have serious doubts that US-30 in west-central Nebraska is clogged with tourists and roadgeeks.  Take the stretch between Kearney and Lexington, for example:  are you telling me that half of the 2751 vehicles during an average day along that stretch are tourists actively choosing to avoid I-80?  More than 1300 people a day who just can't get enough Nebraska cornfields?  Give me a break.

News flash: If the route in question is "immediately west"  of a city with a population of almost 13,000, then it's definitely not rural and desolate. And the stretch of US 30 between Kearney and Lexington? Also not rural and desolate, and consider how maybe some traffic wants to avoid transcontinental road trippers/truckers and access the businesses along the route. It's not just "Nebraska cornfields"  either. US 30 is a vital part of the famed Lincoln Highway, one of the earliest transcontinental roads in the United States. There's history here.

Perhaps think about I-15, which is at most 16 miles from US 89/US 91 between Downey and Brigham City across the Idaho-Utah state line. Or the US 20/26/95 concurrency (later just 95) between Caldwell and Fruitland near the Idaho-Oregon state line, which never gets farther than about 7 miles from I-84.

Also, don't forget the original road that was in question here, US 50.  If you need an idea of what rural and desolate truly looks like, that's a good place to start.

How nearby is the interstate in this hypothetical?

See the examples mentioned above.

[kphoger]

And you're telling me that most of the traffic on US-50 in Nevada are people "actively choosing to use that route over an alternative"?  You don't think it's, say, people driving between Reno and Ely?  Or how about people going from Denver to Reno who prefer not to go 42 miles out of their way by going north into Wyoming first?  You think that non-tourists and non-roadgeeks all prefer the route that's longer to the one that's shorter?

For destinations farther west in Colorado, the difference is even more apparent, as shown below.

For Reno to Grand Junction:
Using US-50 across Nevada = 750 miles
Using I-80 to Salt Lake City = 799 miles

US-91 near I-15:  shortest route from Logan (pop. 50k) to Pocatello, by a difference of 10 miles compared to the Interstate

US-89 near I-15:  Salt Lake City and Logan to Jackson (10th largest town in Wyoming) and Yellowstone National Park

US-95 near I-84:  Reno to Missoula

[SEWIGuy]

And you're telling me that most of the traffic on US-50 in Nevada are people "actively choosing to use that route over an alternative"?  You don't think it's, say, people driving between Reno and Ely?  Or how about people going from Denver to Reno who prefer not to go 42 miles out of their way by going north into Wyoming first?  You think that non-tourists and non-roadgeeks all prefer the route that's longer to the one that's shorter?

For destinations farther west in Colorado, the difference is even more apparent, as shown below.

For Reno to Grand Junction:
Using US-50 across Nevada = 750 miles
Using I-80 to Salt Lake City = 799 miles

US-91 near I-15:  shortest route from Logan (pop. 50k) to Pocatello, by a difference of 10 miles compared to the Interstate

US-89 near I-15:  Salt Lake City and Logan to Jackson (10th largest town in Wyoming) and Yellowstone National Park

US-95 near I-84:  Reno to Missoula

Not to mention all of the local traffic that uses it daily.  Frankly it sounds like the guy has never driven such roads before.

[interstatefan990]

And you're telling me that most of the traffic on US-50 in Nevada are people "actively choosing to use that route over an alternative"?  You don't think it's, say, people driving between Reno and Ely?  Or how about people going from Denver to Reno who prefer not to go 42 miles out of their way by going north into Wyoming first?  You think that non-tourists and non-roadgeeks all prefer the route that's longer to the one that's shorter?

For destinations farther west in Colorado, the difference is even more apparent, as shown below.

For Reno to Grand Junction:
Using US-50 across Nevada = 750 miles
Using I-80 to Salt Lake City = 799 miles

US-91 near I-15:  shortest route from Logan (pop. 50k) to Pocatello, by a difference of 10 miles compared to the Interstate

US-89 near I-15:  Salt Lake City and Logan to Jackson (10th largest town in Wyoming) and Yellowstone National Park

US-95 near I-84:  Reno to Missoula

You may be correct about the US 50 between Reno and Ely, but how much demand really is there for that route?

And for the others, you also have to factor in speed limits, traffic, intersections, roadway design, and others. It's not just distance. For example, driving from Reno to Grand Junction, Google Maps puts you on I-80 because you'd actually save 12 minutes by taking the interstate, assuming no other disruptions in your trip. And I can guarantee you non-tourists and non-roadgeeks are going to do whatever their GPS tells them, so I-80 is the preferred route for that trip. For Denver to Reno, it's pretty much the same situation. Assuming no other disruptions, you save a grand total of 3 minutes by not taking the interstate into Wyoming, as shown below. It goes back to my original point: are the safety risks of avoiding the interstate really worth it anyways?



I won't include images for the rest, but here is what Google Maps told me:

US 91 Logan to Pocatello: you save 3 minutes by taking the interstate
US 89 SLC to Jackson: you save 4 minutes by taking the interstate
US 89 Logan to Jackson: taking the interstate is 27 min longer
US 95 Reno to Missoula: taking the interstate is 32 minutes longer

These aren't very big time differences, but they also illustrate how the drawbacks of not taking a US route may not be as significant as you think.